| Necessity IS the mother of invention [message #240562] |
Thu, 20 February 2014 09:03  |
gbarrow2
Messages: 765
Registered: February 2004
Location: Lake Almanor, Ca./ Red Bl...
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Not strong enough to lift and hold the steering gear box in place with one arm while trying to get a bolt started with the other hand but didn't want to wait till I could get help.
Used an adjustable tie down strap- one end hooked through the u-joint yoke of the lower steering shaft and the other hooked to the power steering motor support bracket. Easily hoisted into position from above.
So now the question is: How do I get all the air out of the system?
Replaced steering gear box and pump- Filled with ~3 pints of fluid- cycled pump through MANY lock to lock turns while on jack stands- turned on the OEM wiper motor.
Drove a couple of miles around the block making turns in both directions.
Reservoir is full but pump is noisy. Low power assist at low rpm.
Is it just a matter of matter of driving and turning more?
Thanks
Gene Barrow
Lake Almanor, Ca.
1976 Palm Beach
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| Re: Necessity IS the mother of invention [message #240567 is a reply to message #240562] |
Thu, 20 February 2014 10:46  |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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| gbarrow wrote on Thu, 20 February 2014 08:03 |
Not strong enough to lift and hold the steering gear box in place with one arm while trying to get a bolt started with the other hand but didn't want to wait till I could get help.
Used an adjustable tie down strap- one end hooked through the u-joint yoke of the lower steering shaft and the other hooked to the power steering motor support bracket. Easily hoisted into position from above.
So now the question is: How do I get all the air out of the system?
Replaced steering gear box and pump- Filled with ~3 pints of fluid- cycled pump through MANY lock to lock turns while on jack stands- turned on the OEM wiper motor.
Drove a couple of miles around the block making turns in both directions.
Reservoir is full but pump is noisy. Low power assist at low rpm.
Is it just a matter of matter of driving and turning more?
Thanks
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I don't have much experience with this but you did it the way I would have done it. It seems to me that the last time I replaced a steering box, I had much the same issue. If I remember correctly, the fluid had a tendency to foam a little and it was difficult to tell how much was in the reservoir without waiting for it to settle down. Keep at it and keep an eye on the pump reservoir. Hopefully you'll get it properly filled in a short time.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: Necessity IS the mother of invention [message #240576 is a reply to message #240562] |
Thu, 20 February 2014 11:34 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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| gbarrow wrote on Thu, 20 February 2014 08:03 |
Not strong enough to lift and hold the steering gear box in place with one arm while trying to get a bolt started with the other hand but didn't want to wait till I could get help.
Used an adjustable tie down strap- one end hooked through the u-joint yoke of the lower steering shaft and the other hooked to the power steering motor support bracket. Easily hoisted into position from above.
So now the question is: How do I get all the air out of the system?
Replaced steering gear box and pump- Filled with ~3 pints of fluid- cycled pump through MANY lock to lock turns while on jack stands- turned on the OEM wiper motor.
Drove a couple of miles around the block making turns in both directions.
Reservoir is full but pump is noisy. Low power assist at low rpm.
Is it just a matter of matter of driving and turning more?
Thanks
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It will take a couple of days for the air to get out. The fluid gets entrained with air and nothing you can do will get it out--let it set and it will take care of itself.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: Necessity IS the mother of invention [message #240579 is a reply to message #240576] |
Thu, 20 February 2014 11:39 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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I did this last summer;
you need to turn the wheels slowly lock to lock multiple times, engine running, preferable on something like gravel...
this will pump the air out and foam the PS fluid.
turn the engine off an let the foam subsides, recheck the level and repeat until it's quiet
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: Necessity IS the mother of invention [message #240590 is a reply to message #240588] |
Thu, 20 February 2014 12:17 |
gbarrow2
Messages: 765
Registered: February 2004
Location: Lake Almanor, Ca./ Red Bl...
Karma: 3
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Joe,
Your experience says +/- 2 hours of run time cleared the air. I wonder if it was the running, the turning, or sitting over 4 days and 3 nights.
I will follow your example but since my engine is new and needs breaking in I will do it with the rubber on the road on the road. I'll drive it a couple of 100 miles with as much turning as possible and see if that purges the air.
Gene Barrow
Lake Almanor, Ca.
1976 Palm Beach
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| Re: Necessity IS the mother of invention [message #240591 is a reply to message #240590] |
Thu, 20 February 2014 12:29 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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I changed my pump because it was leaking but the replacement pump had an annoying wine to it. After a while I pulled that pump replaced the seals on the old pump and put the original pump back in.it was ok right off the bat.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: Necessity IS the mother of invention [message #240596 is a reply to message #240562] |
Thu, 20 February 2014 13:06 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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I used a floor jack under mine to do the R&R. Worked great. If you don't make Orange Whip out of the fluid the process goes a lot faster. I filled mine, ran it 30 seconds and shut off. I noticed it was starting to make froth so I topped off what I could and waited. Took like 3 trys to get solid fluid level with one overnight sit, but again I stopped as soon as I heard the pump not sounding happy and making things worse.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: Necessity IS the mother of invention [message #240599 is a reply to message #240596] |
Thu, 20 February 2014 13:45 |
Jon payne
Messages: 495
Registered: May 2008
Karma: 1
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To bleed the system just follow the MM exactly. I changed the gear box last year and drained the steer pump too. Followed the MM to bleed the system and works perfectly. No issues since the first drive after bleeding. Takes around 30 mins to completely bleed.
JOn
Jon Payne
76 Palm Beach
Westfield,IN
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| Re: Necessity IS the mother of invention [message #240600 is a reply to message #240590] |
Thu, 20 February 2014 14:03 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Hi Gene, a little of my sperience. Most of the rebuilt pumps I have found were worse than the oem that were taken off. I also found a couple that the hi pressure line was not put back exactly as it came off and had the line in a bind and restricting flow. I have also had good results with cleaning the filter on the wipers. You probably need to run the wipers when bleeding? Are you using ps fluid or atf? You coming east on your test drive?? We are in the new house and would be good to see you again.
| gbarrow wrote on Thu, 20 February 2014 13:17 |
Joe,
Your experience says +/- 2 hours of run time cleared the air. I wonder if it was the running, the turning, or sitting over 4 days and 3 nights.
I will follow your example but since my engine is new and needs breaking in I will do it with the rubber on the road on the road. I'll drive it a couple of 100 miles with as much turning as possible and see if that purges the air.
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C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: Necessity IS the mother of invention [message #240601 is a reply to message #240600] |
Thu, 20 February 2014 14:14 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Gene,
Did you center the steering box per the Dave Lenzi instructions?
It's VERY important esp on the big ol GMC.
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Necessity IS the mother of invention [message #240624 is a reply to message #240605] |
Thu, 20 February 2014 18:54 |
gbarrow2
Messages: 765
Registered: February 2004
Location: Lake Almanor, Ca./ Red Bl...
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
Thanks for putting this procedure together. I have read it before and just re-read it. The focus is finding worn or loose parts and connection points.
Unfortunately, it doesn't address my past or current issue.
Worn parts or component looseness and wander are not my problem. They have all been replaced and installed properly. The coach drives nicely straight down the road without wandering.
In the past I have complained of slightly tight steering when making minor steering adjustments while cruising down the road at speed. That may still be an issue.
My current issue after installing rebuilt steering gear box and pump yesterday, The pump is noisy and provides almost no power assist below 1000rpm. Hoping those issues go away when all the air escapes from the system.
Keith,
Didn't use Dave Lenzi's tool or procedure but I'm satisfied that the box is centered.
Chuck,
I'd love to visit again especially now that you're at the new place. Hope I don't have to drive that far to purge the air from the steering pump. Hoping as Bob de K. says; it'll go a way in a couple of days.
Thanks to all.
Gene Barrow
Lake Almanor, Ca.
1976 Palm Beach
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| Re: Necessity IS the mother of invention [message #240639 is a reply to message #240562] |
Thu, 20 February 2014 19:29 |
Ultravan Owners
Messages: 443
Registered: March 2013
Karma: 0
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Gene,
I know you said you still have air in the system. But it also sounds as if it is low on fluid as well. FYI - If it is too low - you might keep getting air as there is not enough fluid to properly circulate.
If you have not already - check it tomorrow when cold.
If level is okay - as soon as you start it up - turn from wheel lock to lock, a few times, as others have stated - while you are allowing it to warm up. Shut the engine off and check the PS level again. If too much foam wait a short while and recheck. Top off as needed then start it again lock to lock a couple of times and then drive it - due to you needing to still break the engine in.
The lock to lock puts the PS under the most extreme pressure conditions and will ensure full pressure and/or flow of the fluid.
Best of Luck and enjoy the your ride.
Tony (Ontario Canada)
Marie and I are blessed to have had a 2nd chance to buy our farm.
Still hoping and more importantly praying to be able to build a garage.
Our 1970 Ultravan #520 has an Olds Toronado 455 in back.
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| Re: Necessity IS the mother of invention [message #240643 is a reply to message #240590] |
Thu, 20 February 2014 19:42 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| gbarrow wrote on Thu, 20 February 2014 11:17 |
Joe,
Your experience says +/- 2 hours of run time cleared the air. I wonder if it was the running, the turning, or sitting over 4 days and 3 nights.
I will follow your example but since my engine is new and needs breaking in I will do it with the rubber on the road on the road. I'll drive it a couple of 100 miles with as much turning as possible and see if that purges the air.
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Once you have caused the fluid to foam, it will take days, esp if it is cold outside. Everytime you check to see if it has "cleared" you potentially make it worse. You can bleed them quickly if you go slow on the lock to lock turns but if you go too fast or hold the wheel against the lock too long, all bets are off. Also, make sure the fittings are tight to make sure you don't suck air on the low pressure side.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Necessity IS the mother of invention [message #240650 is a reply to message #240624] |
Thu, 20 February 2014 20:41 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Gene,
I agree the only reason I pointed you towards it was because you asked about checking the steering box and one of the steps does
that and references the MM procedure too.
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
----Original Message-----
From: gene barrow
Rob,
Thanks for putting this procedure together. I have read it before and just re-read it. The focus is finding worn or loose parts and
connection points.
Unfortunately, it doesn't address my past or current issue.
Worn parts or component looseness and wander are not my problem. They have all been replaced and installed properly. The coach
drives nicely straight down the road without wandering.
In the past I have complained of slightly tight steering when making minor steering adjustments while cruising down the road at
speed. That may still be an issue.
My current issue after installing rebuilt steering gear box and pump yesterday, The pump is noisy and provides almost no power
assist below 1000rpm. Hoping those issues go away when all the air escapes from the system.
Keith,
Didn't use Dave Lenzi's tool or procedure but I'm satisfied that the box is centered.
Chuck,
I'd love to visit again especially now that you're at the new place. Hope I don't have to drive that far to purge the air from the
steering pump. Hoping as Bob de K. says; it'll go a way in a couple of days.
Thanks to all.
Gene
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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