Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Non GMC, replacing GM Pinion Seal
| Non GMC, replacing GM Pinion Seal [message #240179] |
Sat, 15 February 2014 17:27  |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I have a question about GM differentials.
You guys are the best mechanics I know.
This one is from a 91 S-10 2wheel drive.
Open diff 300,000 miles.
the axle seals were shot so the brakes were full of grease, so I replaced the entire assembly, bearings and even the backing plates.
So of course I had to pull the diff cover to pull the axles.
I decided to do the Pinion seal too.
I measured the rotating torque with my inch pound bending beam and it was undetectable! the needle didn't move.
When I rotated the pinion there was a slight clunk from the backlash between the pinion and the ring gear.
SO....
Putting it back together.
Should I follow the factory recommendation of 3-5 inch lbs greater than the starting torque?
Is the minor clunk any concern?
This is in a street rod so it's not going to be putting one another 100,000 miles any time soon!
Thanks guys
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: Non GMC, replacing GM Pinion Seal [message #240188 is a reply to message #240179] |
Sat, 15 February 2014 18:48  |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| Keith V wrote on Sat, 15 February 2014 18:27 |
I have a question about GM differentials.
You guys are the best mechanics I know.
This one is from a 91 S-10 2wheel drive.
Open diff 300,000 miles.
the axle seals were shot so the brakes were full of grease, so I replaced the entire assembly, bearings and even the backing plates.
So of course I had to pull the diff cover to pull the axles.
I decided to do the Pinion seal too.
I measured the rotating torque with my inch pound bending beam and it was undetectable! the needle didn't move.
When I rotated the pinion there was a slight clunk from the backlash between the pinion and the ring gear.
SO....
Putting it back together.
Should I follow the factory recommendation of 3-5 inch lbs greater than the starting torque?
Is the minor clunk any concern?
This is in a street rod so it's not going to be putting one another 100,000 miles any time soon!
Thanks guys
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Keith,
3~5 inch pounds greater than What Torque?
Too bad it is apart already. If you had marked The parts so the yoke and nut could be put back where they started, that does work.
Where is the minor Clunk coming from?
If it is the backlash of the ring and pinon, if it is a recurring cluck, something is out of line and should be looked into.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: Non GMC, replacing GM Pinion Seal [message #240200 is a reply to message #240188] |
Sat, 15 February 2014 22:05 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| Matt Colie wrote on Sat, 15 February 2014 18:48 |
| Keith V wrote on Sat, 15 February 2014 18:27 |
I have a question about GM differentials.
You guys are the best mechanics I know.
This one is from a 91 S-10 2wheel drive.
Open diff 300,000 miles.
the axle seals were shot so the brakes were full of grease, so I replaced the entire assembly, bearings and even the backing plates.
So of course I had to pull the diff cover to pull the axles.
I decided to do the Pinion seal too.
I measured the rotating torque with my inch pound bending beam and it was undetectable! the needle didn't move.
When I rotated the pinion there was a slight clunk from the backlash between the pinion and the ring gear.
SO....
Putting it back together.
Should I follow the factory recommendation of 3-5 inch lbs greater than the starting torque?
Is the minor clunk any concern?
This is in a street rod so it's not going to be putting one another 100,000 miles any time soon!
Thanks guys
|
Keith,
3~5 inch pounds greater than What Torque?
Too bad it is apart already. If you had marked The parts so the yoke and nut could be put back where they started, that does work.
Where is the minor Clunk coming from?
If it is the backlash of the ring and pinon, if it is a recurring cluck, something is out of line and should be looked into.
Matt
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Matt
3-5 in/lbs greater than the torque required to rotate the pinion ( wheels and drums off) before disassembly
I did mark it and that is where it is now.
Just want to make sure thats the right way to do it.
the clunk is what I feel when I turn the pinion back and forth, it's very little, but I can feel it.
and remember that was bone dry. I filled it with 90w and I cant feel anything anymore.
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
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| Re: Non GMC, replacing GM Pinion Seal [message #240202 is a reply to message #240179] |
Sat, 15 February 2014 22:33 |
Craig Lechowicz
Messages: 541
Registered: October 2006
Location: Waterford, MI
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Keith,
There is sort of two ways to do this, one is the proper way, with resetting everything to specs along the way, and replacing the crush sleeve between the pinion bearings. It's a lot of work and takes a few special tools, some shims that may be hard to get, and it helps to have done it all a few times.
The other way, comes without guarantees, but will probably work. If everything turns smoothly, you can probably cheat, and not reset anything. The clunk you are hearing is the backlash between the teeth of the ring gear and the pinion and a small amount is normal, and even a fairly large amount probably won't hurt much. If you try to change that on a used gearset, there is a good chance you will turn it from being quiet to being noisy, anyway, so leave all that alone. If all that you have done is removed the pinion flange, the short answer is just put it back on after replacing the seal, and tighten the nut very tight, (a little locktite wouldn't hurt) maybe around 150 ft. lbs. or a little better. It's best to do this by holding the pinion flange with a holder (one of the special tools) but a pipe wrench will work. It's also best to turn the nut with a hand tool rather then an impact, as the impact tool can brinell the pinion bearings as it tightens them.
A little explanation, the pinion bearings are set up to have a very slight pre-load that is measured by the torque wrench. Usually there is a much lower reading in inch pounds of this preload for used bearings than there is for new bearings, so not being able to feel much can be okay. If you feel end play in the pinion after the companion flange is on, you have problems and get to do all of the time consuming shop manual stuff, anyway. Pinion bearing preload is controlled by a collapsible metal crush sleeve that fits between the inner and outer pinion bearing. It takes a tremendous amount of torque to crush that sleeve to the point the preload is correct. By loosening the nut and removing the pinion flange, you haven't changed the dimension of the old crush sleeve. And, if you only tighten to 150 ft. lbs. or so, you won't be anywhere near crushing it further either, so things "should" be okay. You might want to use some locktight on the nut, as my 150 ft. lb. guess may be a little low, and the nut is a prevailing torque nut that won't hang on as well the 2nd time around. This is clearly the back yard approach, but I think it will probably work for you. Good luck.
Craig Lechowicz
'77 Kingsley, Waterford, MI
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