Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Lead Acid Battery Temperature
| Lead Acid Battery Temperature [message #239982] |
Fri, 14 February 2014 08:32  |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
|
Senior Member |
|
|
A little background
It has been way below zero here for a few days this year and I thought of my daughter's Honda Fit not starting at 4 AM every morning when she leaves for work. (It did start every day.)
The Honda Fit has a battery about the size that would fit a Coleman lantern. Actually that is an exaggeration but it is very small and rated at 330 CCA. If I remember the size correctly it is 4.5" x 7.5" x 8" tall. That is about the size of a garden tractor battery.
So I go the idea about slipping a silicone heating pad underneath it and plugging it in when the temps are below zero F. Now the question became what size. Well physical size could be anything smaller the 7.5" x 4.5". The make silicone pad battery heaters but they are all for larger batteries. Under the size category I also could not tell how much heat I needed to generate. Then I stumbled across a 100 watt 220 volt silicone heating pad for $11.00 delivered. It also met my physical size requirement. This thing is about 4"x6.5" I calculated that this pad would put out about 25 to 30 watts when plugged into 120 volts.
Well I got the thing a couple of days ago and plugged it in to see what would happen. It is just sitting here in the open 70 degree air. It immediately go too hot to touch and after 5 minuted is was reading 227 degrees F. I realize that I will have a small battery as a heat sink and it should not get that hot when fully installed.
What I do not know is how hot it will get and also how much heat a battery can handle. I have found a few charts but they all talk about performance at temperatures up to 100 F.
How much higher can I go in temperature before destroying a $100 battery?
I think I might go to the airport today and find an old airplane battery. They are small and maybe if I stick it outside on a piece of wood with the pad under it, I could test it to see what happens.
Anyone out there have any experience with LA batteries in high temperature conditions?
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Lead Acid Battery Temperature [message #239990 is a reply to message #239982] |
Fri, 14 February 2014 09:05  |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
""A little background
It has been way below zero here for a few days this year and I thought of my daughter's Honda Fit not starting at 4 AM every morning when she leaves for work. (It did start every day.)
The Honda Fit has a battery about the size that would fit a Coleman lantern. Actually that is an exaggeration but it is very small and rated at 330 CCA. If I remember the size correctly it is 4.5" x 7.5" x 8" tall. That is about the size of a garden tractor battery.
""
I've been amazed at the size of some of those batteries. On the other hand, I doubt you need to even remotely worry about it starting. I'm sure Honda has their act together on this one.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
|
|
|
|
| Re: Lead Acid Battery Temperature [message #239991 is a reply to message #239982] |
Fri, 14 February 2014 09:07 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
|
Senior Member |
|
|
There is a saying something like "August killed the battery but it didn't show up dead till January". Just as a salt laden car rusts faster in a heated garage, high heat kills batteries. Cold reduces the CCA available at the moment. I would think all the thermal cycling of the battery would shorten the life. I'm guessing that the little battery is proportional to the little engine. Also when the car starts the charging system will be putting out say 14.4 thinking the batt is -10 when it's really 80 deg again stressing the batt. I don't know if Honda uses a batt temp sensor like Chrysler to control charge voltage.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Lead Acid Battery Temperature [message #239997 is a reply to message #239987] |
Fri, 14 February 2014 09:11 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
this table should give a clue on batt temp
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6225/How_to_check-out1.pdf
good luck
On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 6:53 AM, Emery Stora <emerystora@mac.com> wrote:
> This email reminds me of when I had an Austin Healy 100-6 when I was a
> student at the Univ of Michigan. I had a weak battery but couldn't afford
> to buy a new one. In the winter it wouldn't turn over enough to start. So
> I would boil a pot of water on the stove and pour it over the battery. It
> would then start. It would warm up later in the day and start. So it was
> only needed first thing in the morning.
>
> Emery Stora
>
> > On Feb 14, 2014, at 7:32 AM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > A little background
> >
> > It has been way below zero here for a few days this year and I thought
> of my daughter's Honda Fit not starting at 4 AM every morning when she
> leaves for work. (It did start every day.)
> >
> > The Honda Fit has a battery about the size that would fit a Coleman
> lantern. Actually that is an exaggeration but it is very small and rated
> at 330 CCA. If I remember the size correctly it is 4.5" x 7.5" x 8" tall.
> That is about the size of a garden tractor battery.
> >
> > So I go the idea about slipping a silicone heating pad underneath it and
> plugging it in when the temps are below zero F. Now the question became
> what size. Well physical size could be anything smaller the 7.5" x 4.5".
> The make silicone pad battery heaters but they are all for larger
> batteries. Under the size category I also could not tell how much heat I
> needed to generate. Then I stumbled across a 100 watt 220 volt silicone
> heating pad for $11.00 delivered. It also met my physical size
> requirement. This thing is about 4"x6.5" I calculated that this pad
> would put out about 25 to 30 watts when plugged into 120 volts.
> >
> > Well I got the thing a couple of days ago and plugged it in to see what
> would happen. It is just sitting here in the open 70 degree air. It
> immediately go too hot to touch and after 5 minuted is was reading 227
> degrees F. I realize that I will have a small battery as a heat sink and
> it should not get that hot when fully installed.
> >
> > What I do not know is how hot it will get and also how much heat a
> battery can handle. I have found a few charts but they all talk about
> performance at temperatures up to 100 F.
> >
> > How much higher can I go in temperature before destroying a $100 battery?
> >
> > I think I might go to the airport today and find an old airplane
> battery. They are small and maybe if I stick it outside on a piece of wood
> with the pad under it, I could test it to see what happens.
> >
> > Anyone out there have any experience with LA batteries in high
> temperature conditions?
> > --
> > Ken Burton - N9KB
> > 76 Palm Beach
> > Hebron, Indiana
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
"Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Lead Acid Battery Temperature [message #240014 is a reply to message #239991] |
Fri, 14 February 2014 10:17 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
|
Senior Member |
|
|
| JohnL455 wrote on Fri, 14 February 2014 09:07 |
There is a saying something like "August killed the battery but it didn't show up dead till January". Just as a salt laden car rusts faster in a heated garage, high heat kills batteries. Cold reduces the CCA available at the moment. I would think all the thermal cycling of the battery would shorten the life. I'm guessing that the little battery is proportional to the little engine. Also when the car starts the charging system will be putting out say 14.4 thinking the batt is -10 when it's really 80 deg again stressing the batt. I don't know if Honda uses a batt temp sensor like Chrysler to control charge voltage.
|
They sure do. Also they have ELD Electric Load Detector. The ELD tells the BCM how much of the charge current is being used by accessories and it then calculates how much is going into the battery. Once it determines the battery is 70% or 80% charged it back off on the voltage to save mpg.
Bob, On your size comment. Honda does offer an engine block heater and a battery heater recommended for use below 0 degrees F. I'm too cheap to pay their inflated prices. My Colorado has the factory engine block heater but it does not kick on unless it is below +10 F I believe.
Lastly the engine uses 0W20 oil.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
|
|
|
|
| Re: Lead Acid Battery Temperature [message #240042 is a reply to message #239982] |
Fri, 14 February 2014 14:15 |
Craig Lechowicz
Messages: 541
Registered: October 2006
Location: Waterford, MI
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Ken,
I don't have a table, but there is a direct relationship between high battery temperatures and shortened battery life. I forget what year your Colorado is, but it probably has insulation around the battery, and depending on the year, air ducting to bring cooler than underhood air to the battery. I have a Fiero, and they run very high underhood temperatures. I used to plan on putting a new battery in it about every 2 years because of that. Last time, I put in a Optima spiral cell battery, and it made it 4+ years before dying this fall.
I'm thinking a good solution might be to put a Christmas light timer on the extension cord that you plug it into and only run it a couple of hours at a time.
Craig Lechowicz
'77 Kingsley, Waterford, MI
|
|
|
|
| Re: Lead Acid Battery Temperature [message #240055 is a reply to message #240042] |
Fri, 14 February 2014 16:05 |
pzerkel
Messages: 212
Registered: September 2007
Location: Salisbury, IL
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Anectdotal information, but DW has 2004 Saturn Ion Quad Coupe. The battery is in the trunk, just under trunk near spare tire. Far, far away from engine compatment heat. The battery has not been replaced since we bought the car new.
This winter it has been a little slow cranking in the cold, so it is probably time. But this has convinced me about heat being not so good for a battery.
Paul Zerkel
'78 Eleganza II
Salisbury IL (near Springfield)
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Lead Acid Battery Temperature [message #240061 is a reply to message #239982] |
Fri, 14 February 2014 16:45 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Ken,
-15 the other day. my grand wagoneer started right up. granted the battery is a lot bigger then the honda fit, but comparably, I have a 660CCA battery in there, and I am cranking a v-8. My battery just looks small, but almost never lets me down. I did have a starting problem around christmas, but a rebuilt starter took care of that.
In my opinion, I think it would be a waste of time keeping her battery on a heater, especially if you are dealing with temps above -15.
a good battery will start a car in sub zero temps in my experience. I do not even carry jumper cables. the fit engine is small, and so is the battery. there are plenty of Honda fits up here starting in the cold.
your energy would be better spent on a battery tender, to make sure it is charged up, then trying to keep the battery warm.
If you want to keep anything warm, keep the engine warm. will be easier on wear and tear, simple magnetic block heater does wonders too. I have a 29.99 one on my gmc oilpan right now waiting for me to fire it up this weekend to run it a bit, now that it warmed up here into the positive temps. Plus you will have heat and defrost quicker.
new diesels will start up here in the cold too. You just have to have the correct oil, and more importantly the correct fuel blend. my father-in-laws jetta diesel never stranded him in 290,000 miles.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
|
|
|
|
| Re: Lead Acid Battery Temperature [message #240062 is a reply to message #240061] |
Fri, 14 February 2014 17:07 |
Keith V
Messages: 2337
Registered: March 2008
Location: Mounds View,MN
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Minnesotan here.
If you modern fuel injected car doesn't start at -20 there is something wrong with it.
It may crank slow, it may growl, but it should start.
Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View. MN
75 ex Royale GMC
ask me about MicroLevel
Cell, 763-732-3419
My427v8@hotmail.com
|
|
|
|
| Re: Lead Acid Battery Temperature [message #240065 is a reply to message #240062] |
Fri, 14 February 2014 18:06 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Anyone interested in a block heater for a Ford Escape or Mazda Tribute 4 cylinder, i have one that is yours for shipping costs. Brand new, never installed, not much need here is Lower Alabama. Mazda is long gone.
I used an oil dipstick heater while living in New Hampshire. they have serious winter.
Tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Lead Acid Battery Temperature [message #240074 is a reply to message #239982] |
Fri, 14 February 2014 19:55 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
|
Senior Member |
|
|
All you really want is room temp or slightly under, no? I'd series vrious incandescent light bulbs with the heat pad until I found the size which would get the battery to the temp I wanted. Optionally, you can ty-rap a click style thermostat to the battery and use it. Being a cheapskate, I'd do the lightbulb in series.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
braselton GA
________________________________
From: Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2014 9:32 AM
Subject: [GMCnet] Lead Acid Battery Temperature
A little background
It has been way below zero here for a few days this year and I thought of my daughter's Honda Fit not starting at 4 AM every morning when she leaves for work. (It did start every day.)
The Honda Fit has a battery about the size that would fit a Coleman lantern. Actually that is an exaggeration but it is very small and rated at 330 CCA. If I remember the size correctly it is 4.5" x 7.5" x 8" tall. That is about the size of a garden tractor battery.
So I go the idea about slipping a silicone heating pad underneath it and plugging it in when the temps are below zero F. Now the question became what size. Well physical size could be anything smaller the 7.5" x 4.5". The make silicone pad battery heaters but they are all for larger batteries. Under the size category I also could not tell how much heat I needed to generate. Then I stumbled across a 100 watt 220 volt silicone heating pad for $11.00 delivered. It also met my physical size requirement. This thing is about 4"x6.5" I calculated that this pad would put out about 25 to 30 watts when plugged into 120 volts.
Well I got the thing a couple of days ago and plugged it in to see what would happen. It is just sitting here in the open 70 degree air. It immediately go too hot to touch and after 5 minuted is was reading 227 degrees F. I realize that I will have a small battery as a heat sink and it should not get that hot when fully installed.
What I do not know is how hot it will get and also how much heat a battery can handle. I have found a few charts but they all talk about performance at temperatures up to 100 F.
How much higher can I go in temperature before destroying a $100 battery?
I think I might go to the airport today and find an old airplane battery. They are small and maybe if I stick it outside on a piece of wood with the pad under it, I could test it to see what happens.
Anyone out there have any experience with LA batteries in high temperature conditions?
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
|
|
|
|
| Re: Lead Acid Battery Temperature [message #240116 is a reply to message #240042] |
Sat, 15 February 2014 01:40 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I was thinking about that solution. I think I'm going to go get an old battery and set it outside with the heat pad under it to see what happens if I leave in on over night.
It will not be a great test since spring has arrived here and the temps are now +14. At east I could see how hot (or cold) it gets after a few hours or even overnight. I may just resort to what I have always done in the past and stick a 1 amp trickle charger on it. The charger provides a maximum of 14 watts which tapers off as the battery gets warmer.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Lead Acid Battery Temperature [message #240117 is a reply to message #240056] |
Sat, 15 February 2014 01:52 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
|
Senior Member |
|
|
| USAussie wrote on Fri, 14 February 2014 16:13 |
Ken,
Would an infrared heat lamp do the trick and if yes is there enough room under the hood?
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
|
Yes, but I'm a little afraid of that solution. If you have ever seen one of those heat lamps explode you will not want that under the hood. Also I'm not looking for hundreds of watts of heat.
I have had one of these silicone heaters on my airplane engine for years. It works great at bringing the entire engine up to the 70s or 80s in about 1.5 hours. Mine is a 360 Cu. in. engine. I think the pad is around 150 watts. This Fit engine is only 92 Cu. In. (1500 cc) or 1/4 the size.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Lead Acid Battery Temperature [message #240118 is a reply to message #240074] |
Sat, 15 February 2014 02:01 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Let me stress. This is just something I am playing with. Her car started just fine at -19. At this point it is not a necessity but it might be nice. They also make these pads with a built in thermostat.
The simple solution to me for heating the battery is a 1 amp trickle charger.
If I do that I'll have wasted $11.00 on this pad heater.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
|
|
|
|
| Re: Lead Acid Battery Temperature [message #240139 is a reply to message #239982] |
Sat, 15 February 2014 09:54 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Good enough Ken. someday I wish i had that kind of time. you can always just use it to set your coffee cup on and keep that warm.
I know about 6 years ago, on one of my jobsites in Devils Lake, ND. we had a few weeks of -30, -39, -45 and such temps. We had to make sure vehicles had block heaters in, or they would not always start, except for one Ford Van. that would always start, no matter what. Fire that one up, and go jumpstart the others with that van. But that spring, it developed a rod knock, with about 160k miles.
Last time I started my GMC in this cold. it would not idle. Fire right off, but just not enough of my electric choke staying on to allow it to idle for long. Walk away, and it would quit. I ended up pulling the air cleaner cover, putting a towel over the carb, and that allowed it to run for 3 to 4 minutes unattended. I think that day it was around 5 or 10 degrees out.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
[Updated on: Sat, 15 February 2014 09:55] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
| Re: Lead Acid Battery Temperature [message #240220 is a reply to message #240139] |
Sun, 16 February 2014 03:16 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Devil's Lake. Been there several times both on the ground and from the air. It is my last flying fuel stop when headed north bound. Once you cross the border fuel goes sky high.
I have sense enough to go there from June to August.
I brought an old battery home tonight. It started out reading 32 F. (I had it in the back of my truck in the garage for a few hours) It has been on for one hour. Time to go see what it reads now. The heat pad read +231 when I started.
Unfortunately the OAT is +16 which is a little high for a test.
If it roasts it then we will have fried battery for breakfast.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
|
|
|
|
| Re: Lead Acid Battery Temperature [message #240221 is a reply to message #240220] |
Sun, 16 February 2014 03:41 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I just checked the temperature. After 90 minutes it increased 2 degrees F. Unfortunately the OAT raised 1.5 degrees F. We will check it again in the morning when Finn asks to go out at around 6:30.
Maybe 25 watts is not enough.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Mon Sep 30 23:49:27 CDT 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.03380 seconds
|
GMCforum
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
