Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Grandpa's Coupe Deville (Non Gmc kinda)
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| Re: [GMCnet] Grandpa's Coupe Deville [message #239501 is a reply to message #239486] |
Tue, 11 February 2014 05:51   |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Both my newer Ranger (3.0 Vulcan engine) and my Dodge minivan (3.3L) use a crank angle sensor, and a cam position sesor and have triple coil packs. How do they work? 'Very well.'
--johnny
From: Robert Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Grandpa's Coupe Deville
Anthony,
My Ducati Monster and my 2003 Mazda Tribute have the same kind of ignition system; I don't know how it works!
I'm a points and condenser kinda guy!
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: anthony ezzo
some sort of crank trigger?,the distro just fills the hole I think?
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Grandpa's Coupe Deville [message #239514 is a reply to message #239486] |
Tue, 11 February 2014 08:24 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| USAussie wrote on Mon, 10 February 2014 23:36 |
Anthony,
My Ducati Monster and my 2003 Mazda Tribute have the same kind of ignition system; I don't know how it works!
I'm a points and condenser kinda guy!
Regards,
Rob M.
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Rob,
Those systems are real easy to understand...
We called the FM systems. An abbreviation for F Magic.
It is all done with smoke and mirrors. You just watch, if the smoke leaks out, they quit working.
Most of the systems in use today need two sensors. Several manufactures tried to do it in a distributor body, but the gear lash to the crank position came to bite them. So, all new builds were designed with cam and crank sensors. The cam sensor is needed to reset the count so the computer knows when/where #1 fire is. The crank sensor is used to actually set up the spark timing.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Grandpa's Coupe Deville [message #239613 is a reply to message #239461] |
Tue, 11 February 2014 19:51 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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| USAussie wrote on Mon, 10 February 2014 17:48 |
Anthony,
You're right it is CRAZY!
The EFI must be something really special as the engine has no distributor and a coil over plug ignition system!
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: anthony ezzo
Nice job on his granparents old car. Crazy wild modded turbo fuelie 500!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaOKw1D_lcM&feature=share
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This conversation reminds of a good trivia question even if it is off topic. Can anyone name a V6 5 cam engine in recent history??
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Grandpa's Coupe Deville [message #239699 is a reply to message #239681] |
Wed, 12 February 2014 13:46 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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I await the answer. Only 5 shaft I am aware of was during WWII(The BIG one), but it wasn't a V6. The chrysler tank engine had five camshafts. I'd figure perhaps an F1 engine or a scooter engine or some such esoterica. You can win bar bets with a Lycoming falt engine cam, they have an odd number of lobes.
--johnny
________________________________
From: Bob de Kruyff <NEXT2POOL@AOL.COM>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Grandpa's Coupe Deville
Johnny Bridges wrote on Wed, 12 February 2014 07:47
> 5 shafts, or 5 lobes?
>
> --johnny
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bob de Kruyff <NEXT2POOL@AOL.COM>
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 8:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Grandpa's Coupe Deville
> This conversation reminds of a good trivia question even if it is off topic. Can anyone name a V6 5 cam engine in recent history??
> --
> Bob de Kruyff
> 78 Eleganza
> Chandler, AZ
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5 shafts
--
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Grandpa's Coupe Deville [message #239735 is a reply to message #239699] |
Wed, 12 February 2014 16:30 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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""I await the answer. Only 5 shaft I am aware of was during WWII(The BIG one), but it wasn't a V6. The chrysler tank engine had five camshafts. I'd figure perhaps an F1 engine or a scooter engine or some such esoterica. You can win bar bets with a Lycoming falt engine cam, they have an odd number of lobes.
--johnny
""
OK--it was the GM 3.4 L v6 pushrod engine that was converted to a dual overhead cam version (LQ1)for the FWD Monte Carlo and Pontiac Grand Prix. It was a real odd ball and a quick attempt at having a DOHC engine. The original chain driven cam was left in place to drive the oil pump and also drive the overhead cams via cogged belts.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Grandpa's Coupe Deville [message #239741 is a reply to message #239735] |
Wed, 12 February 2014 16:52 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Bob,
Aha! It was a trick question! The "original" cam didn't really function as a camshaft in as much it didn't actuate the valves!
Boy it's a good thing you answered this fairly quickly, the five (5) camshafts had me scratching my head and if you would have
waited much longer I would have a bald spot!
For those of you that are interested in Johnny's post here's a link to the Chrysler engine:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_A57_multibank
In order to use existing tooling, five Chrysler 250.6 in3 (4.12 litre; 3.4375" {87.3 mm} bore and 4.50" {114.3 mm} stroke)[1] L-head
inline six cylinder engines were arranged around a central shaft, producing a unique 30 cylinder 21 litre (1253 in3)[1] engine in a
relatively compact but heavy package. The crankshafts were fitted with gears, which drove a sun gear arrangement.
Regards,
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob de Kruyff
""I await the answer. Only 5 shaft I am aware of was during WWII(The BIG one), but it wasn't a V6. The chrysler tank engine had
five camshafts. I'd figure perhaps an F1 engine or a scooter engine or some such esoterica. You can win bar bets with a Lycoming
falt engine cam, they have an odd number of lobes.
--johnny
OK--it was the GM 3.4 L v6 pushrod engine that was converted to a dual overhead cam version (LQ1)for the FWD Monte Carlo and Pontiac
Grand Prix. It was a real odd ball and a quick attempt at having a DOHC engine. The original chain driven cam was left in place to
drive the oil pump and also drive the overhead cams via cogged belts.
--
Bob
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Grandpa's Coupe Deville [message #239763 is a reply to message #239739] |
Wed, 12 February 2014 17:56 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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I don't think I ever saw the Jeep cammer. what models / model years was it fitted?
--johnny
________________________________
From: Matt Colie <matt7323tze@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Grandpa's Coupe Deville
Bob de Kruyff wrote on Wed, 12 February 2014 17:30
> OK--it was the GM 3.4 L v6 pushrod engine that was converted to a dual overhead cam version (LQ1)for the FWD Monte Carlo and Pontiac Grand Prix. It was a real odd ball and a quick attempt at having a DOHC engine. The original chain driven cam was left in place to drive the oil pump and also drive the overhead cams via cogged belts.
Bob,
That "camshaft" had no cam functions at all. (IIRC)
So,
If you are going to count that, then you also have to count the Jeep 3.7l V6 as it had a balance shaft in the middle of the V.
My favorite bet winner is the Jeep OHC 230 (not AMC233). It had a camshaft with six lobes only and may well still stand as the lowest volume production engine in recent history. (Less than 60K in five model years.
Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCES Going to MontgomeryThe majestic, once snow covered glacier Chaumière is in for the winter.
'73 Glacier 23 With 4 Rear Brakes that pull as they should
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
|
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| Re: [GMCnet] Grandpa's Coupe Deville [message #239765 is a reply to message #239763] |
Wed, 12 February 2014 18:04 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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1962-1981 Called it the Tornado engine. Never owned one, but worked on a
few. Not a bad engine. 7 main bearings I think, and a nitrided crankshaft.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC Royale 403
On Feb 12, 2014 3:56 PM, "Johnny Bridges" <jhbridges@ymail.com> wrote:
> I don't think I ever saw the Jeep cammer. what models / model years was
> it fitted?
>
> --johnny
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Matt Colie <matt7323tze@gmail.com>
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 5:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Grandpa's Coupe Deville
>
>
>
>
> Bob de Kruyff wrote on Wed, 12 February 2014 17:30
> > OK--it was the GM 3.4 L v6 pushrod engine that was converted to a dual
> overhead cam version (LQ1)for the FWD Monte Carlo and Pontiac Grand Prix.
> It was a real odd ball and a quick attempt at having a DOHC engine. The
> original chain driven cam was left in place to drive the oil pump and also
> drive the overhead cams via cogged belts.
>
> Bob,
>
> That "camshaft" had no cam functions at all. (IIRC)
> So,
> If you are going to count that, then you also have to count the Jeep 3.7l
> V6 as it had a balance shaft in the middle of the V.
>
> My favorite bet winner is the Jeep OHC 230 (not AMC233). It had a
> camshaft with six lobes only and may well still stand as the lowest volume
> production engine in recent history. (Less than 60K in five model years.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCES Going to MontgomeryThe majestic,
> once snow covered glacier Chaumière is in for the winter.
> '73 Glacier 23 With 4 Rear Brakes that pull as they should
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
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> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Grandpa's Coupe Deville [message #239766 is a reply to message #239739] |
Wed, 12 February 2014 18:05 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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""Bob,
That "camshaft" had no cam functions at all. (IIRC)
So,
If you are going to count that, then you also have to count the Jeep 3.7l V6 as it had a balance shaft in the middle of the V.
My favorite bet winner is the Jeep OHC 230 (not AMC233). It had a camshaft with six lobes only and may well still stand as the lowest volume production engine in recent history. (Less than 60K in five model years.
Matt""
Fun stuff Matt, but I don't consider a balance shaft in the same league. It did drive the oil pump just like the original cam. Oh well, so much for trivia.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Grandpa's Coupe Deville [message #239767 is a reply to message #239741] |
Wed, 12 February 2014 18:07 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
| USAussie wrote on Wed, 12 February 2014 15:52 |
Bob,
Aha! It was a trick question! The "original" cam didn't really function as a camshaft in as much it didn't actuate the valves!
Boy it's a good thing you answered this fairly quickly, the five (5) camshafts had me scratching my head and if you would have
waited much longer I would have a bald spot!
For those of you that are interested in Johnny's post here's a link to the Chrysler engine:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_A57_multibank
In order to use existing tooling, five Chrysler 250.6 in3 (4.12 litre; 3.4375" {87.3 mm} bore and 4.50" {114.3 mm} stroke)[1] L-head
inline six cylinder engines were arranged around a central shaft, producing a unique 30 cylinder 21 litre (1253 in3)[1] engine in a
relatively compact but heavy package. The crankshafts were fitted with gears, which drove a sun gear arrangement.
Regards,
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob de Kruyff
""I await the answer. Only 5 shaft I am aware of was during WWII(The BIG one), but it wasn't a V6. The chrysler tank engine had
five camshafts. I'd figure perhaps an F1 engine or a scooter engine or some such esoterica. You can win bar bets with a Lycoming
falt engine cam, they have an odd number of lobes.
--johnny
OK--it was the GM 3.4 L v6 pushrod engine that was converted to a dual overhead cam version (LQ1)for the FWD Monte Carlo and Pontiac
Grand Prix. It was a real odd ball and a quick attempt at having a DOHC engine. The original chain driven cam was left in place to
drive the oil pump and also drive the overhead cams via cogged belts.
--
Bob
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Yes, it probably was misleading. Internally it was always a joke and sarcastically we felt we finally had a first 
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Grandpa's Coupe Deville [message #239777 is a reply to message #239763] |
Wed, 12 February 2014 19:04 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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That Jeep engine was known as the Tornado. It was a product of Kaiser-Jeep. It was used from about 1962 to 1965. It was discontinued after 1965 as it was a complex engine and more expensive to produce. It was under square to have better low speed torque. The cam only had six lobes. Each lobe operated the intake and exhaust valve. This was the first overhead cam engine designed in the USA after WWII.
I owned a 1963 Jeep Wagoneer with that engine and I thought it was a really great engine.
Emery Stora
> On Feb 12, 2014, at 4:56 PM, Johnny Bridges <jhbridges@ymail.com> wrote:
>
> I don't think I ever saw the Jeep cammer. what models / model years was it fitted?
>
> --johnny
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Matt Colie <matt7323tze@gmail.com>
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 5:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Grandpa's Coupe Deville
>
>
>
>
> Bob de Kruyff wrote on Wed, 12 February 2014 17:30
>> OK--it was the GM 3.4 L v6 pushrod engine that was converted to a dual overhead cam version (LQ1)for the FWD Monte Carlo and Pontiac Grand Prix. It was a real odd ball and a quick attempt at having a DOHC engine. The original chain driven cam was left in place to drive the oil pump and also drive the overhead cams via cogged belts.
>
> Bob,
>
> That "camshaft" had no cam functions at all. (IIRC)
> So,
> If you are going to count that, then you also have to count the Jeep 3.7l V6 as it had a balance shaft in the middle of the V.
>
> My favorite bet winner is the Jeep OHC 230 (not AMC233). It had a camshaft with six lobes only and may well still stand as the lowest volume production engine in recent history. (Less than 60K in five model years.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCES Going to MontgomeryThe majestic, once snow covered glacier Chaumière is in for the winter.
> '73 Glacier 23 With 4 Rear Brakes that pull as they should
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Grandpa's Coupe Deville [message #239813 is a reply to message #239765] |
Thu, 13 February 2014 07:22 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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That would have been fitted to a friend's mid 60s cabover style Jeep pickup? I'd love to have one of those. I dunno if they were any good but they looked all kinds of cool.
--johnny
________________________________
From: James Hupy <jamesh1296@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Grandpa's Coupe Deville
1962-1981 Called it the Tornado engine. Never owned one, but worked on a
few. Not a bad engine. 7 main bearings I think, and a nitrided crankshaft.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC Royale 403
On Feb 12, 2014 3:56 PM, "Johnny Bridges" <jhbridges@ymail.com> wrote:
> I don't think I ever saw the Jeep cammer. what models / model years was
> it fitted?
>
> --johnny
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Matt Colie <matt7323tze@gmail.com>
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 5:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Grandpa's Coupe Deville
>
>
>
>
> Bob de Kruyff wrote on Wed, 12 February 2014 17:30
> > OK--it was the GM 3.4 L v6 pushrod engine that was converted to a dual
> overhead cam version (LQ1)for the FWD Monte Carlo and Pontiac Grand Prix.
> It was a real odd ball and a quick attempt at having a DOHC engine. The
> original chain driven cam was left in place to drive the oil pump and also
> drive the overhead cams via cogged belts.
>
> Bob,
>
> That "camshaft" had no cam functions at all. (IIRC)
> So,
> If you are going to count that, then you also have to count the Jeep 3.7l
> V6 as it had a balance shaft in the middle of the V.
>
> My favorite bet winner is the Jeep OHC 230 (not AMC233). It had a
> camshaft with six lobes only and may well still stand as the lowest volume
> production engine in recent history. (Less than 60K in five model years.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCES Going to MontgomeryThe majestic,
> once snow covered glacier Chaumière is in for the winter.
> '73 Glacier 23 With 4 Rear Brakes that pull as they should
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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