Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] LP Overfilled?
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| Re: [GMCnet] LP Overfilled? [message #238239 is a reply to message #238236] |
Fri, 31 January 2014 16:45   |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| John Olson wrote on Fri, 31 January 2014 15:32 |
So the gas station attendant was filling our LP tank. While he disconnected
the hose, I noticed the needle was pegged. Is this overfilled?
I thought the needle shouldn't be past the FULL mark (80%). Gauge has been
working fine.
Attendant said the hose has a back pressure shutoff, so the tank should be
fine. I'm not so sure of that.
Should the extra pressure be bled off until the gauge reads at the FULL
(80%) mark?
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p52724-lp-overfill.html
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It may be overfilled. Did he have the "bleed" screw open while filling? It should be open and filling should be stopped as soon as liquid starts escaping.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] LP Overfilled? [message #238241 is a reply to message #238236] |
Fri, 31 January 2014 16:44 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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John,
Our tanks do NOT have an automatic cutoff feature. The little vent valve
to the right of your gauge MUST be opened and the input flow stopped when
liquid begins to spray from that vent. Otherwise, yes, the tank will be
overfilled. Without opening that vent the source's safety shutoff will
finally stop the flow, but your tank may be dangerously overfilled.
I don't know the accuracy of your level gauge, but I would do as you
suggest: Bleed off LPG until the gauge reads full -- the vent valve should
stop spewing visible vapor also. However, there's a good chance the vent
will freeze up while venting for an extended period.
Unless you're familiar with safe handling procedures, I'd suggest going
back to where you had it filled and insist on someone with true competency
drain the excess. Or find a dealer WITH a competent operator. It's
obvious that the one you had before only knows that he's never had a tank
blow up while filling it. :-(
JMHO,
Ken H.
On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 5:32 PM, John Olson wrote:
> So the gas station attendant was filling our LP tank. While he disconnected
> the hose, I noticed the needle was pegged. Is this overfilled?
>
> I thought the needle shouldn't be past the FULL mark (80%). Gauge has been
> working fine.
>
> Attendant said the hose has a back pressure shutoff, so the tank should be
> fine. I'm not so sure of that.
>
> Should the extra pressure be bled off until the gauge reads at the FULL
> (80%) mark?
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p52724-lp-overfill.html
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] LP Overfilled? [message #238244 is a reply to message #238241] |
Fri, 31 January 2014 16:52 |
John Olson
Messages: 96
Registered: August 2013
Karma: 0
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Member |
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The shutoff feature he mentioned was on the fill hose, not the GMC tank
(which doesn't have one, as you stated).
He did open the relief valve for the first 5/8 of filling, then closed it
for the remainder of filling. Or maybe the reverse of that.
I'm comfortable with bleeding, but was curious if the tank was indeed
overfilled or its just an anomaly with these type gauges.
Thanks for the responses.
John Olson
76 Edgemont
Chicago, IL (currently nomadic in AZ and trying not to become an LP
fireball)
On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 3:44 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> John,
>
> Our tanks do NOT have an automatic cutoff feature. The little vent valve
> to the right of your gauge MUST be opened and the input flow stopped when
> liquid begins to spray from that vent. Otherwise, yes, the tank will be
> overfilled. Without opening that vent the source's safety shutoff will
> finally stop the flow, but your tank may be dangerously overfilled.
>
> I don't know the accuracy of your level gauge, but I would do as you
> suggest: Bleed off LPG until the gauge reads full -- the vent valve should
> stop spewing visible vapor also. However, there's a good chance the vent
> will freeze up while venting for an extended period.
>
> Unless you're familiar with safe handling procedures, I'd suggest going
> back to where you had it filled and insist on someone with true competency
> drain the excess. Or find a dealer WITH a competent operator. It's
> obvious that the one you had before only knows that he's never had a tank
> blow up while filling it. :-(
>
> JMHO,
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 5:32 PM, John Olson wrote:
>
> > So the gas station attendant was filling our LP tank. While he
> disconnected
> > the hose, I noticed the needle was pegged. Is this overfilled?
> >
> > I thought the needle shouldn't be past the FULL mark (80%). Gauge has
> been
> > working fine.
> >
> > Attendant said the hose has a back pressure shutoff, so the tank should
> be
> > fine. I'm not so sure of that.
> >
> > Should the extra pressure be bled off until the gauge reads at the FULL
> > (80%) mark?
> >
> >
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p52724-lp-overfill.html
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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John Olson
76 Edgemonte
Fulltime traveler
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| Re: [GMCnet] LP Overfilled? [message #238245 is a reply to message #238239] |
Fri, 31 January 2014 17:09 |
scott cowden
Messages: 170
Registered: February 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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If as others have commented the vent screw was not open during the fill process then the risk is that the tank was indeed overfilled. There are all too many pump jockey's unfamiliar with our older cylinders and the need to open the vent when filling operations are undertaken.
The risk with overfilled cylinders is overpressurization causing damage and possible failure of the vessel if the cylinder is exposed to a heat source causing expansion of the gas inside. the normal 'air gap' at the top of a propane cyl is there to absorb the expansion that occurs when the cylinders environment changes.
Possible heat sources for you to think about: direct sun exposure; ambient temperature (not an issue in most of the country this week!); the coach exhaust, or any other heat source that impinges on the cylinder while it has insufficient expansion space.
You can burn off some of the excess gas using the appliances....cook dinner the next couple of nights in the coach or run the furnace for a few hours to burn off some fuel.
This is preferable to opening the vent screw to simply vent the gas to the air. Venting liquid propane to air presents several direct threats to your safety: Removal of oxygen from the immediate area; rapidly expanding liquid propane will envelop the area in flammable gas, creating a big cloud of fuel ready to ignite with any ignition source it may encounter; freeze burns to you from trying to handle the gas which is exiting the valve at speed at -40 degrees.
The expansion rate of propane from liquid to gas is staggering: every cubic foot of pressurized liquid propane becomes 270 cubic feet of flammable gas when released to the atmosphere. It would take no time at all for someone standing at the tank to be completely surrounded by gaseous propane mixed with air and instantly ready to burn if an ignition source is present.
My recommendation would be to run the appliances to use up some of the gas before moving the coach any distance.
Contact me offline if you'd like any further information
Scott Cowden, Fire Chief (ret'd)
'74 x-Glacier
Newmarket ON
Sent from my iPad
On 2014-01-31, at 5:45 PM, "Bob de Kruyff" <NEXT2POOL@AOL.COM> wrote:
>
>
> John Olson wrote on Fri, 31 January 2014 15:32
>> So the gas station attendant was filling our LP tank. While he disconnected
>> the hose, I noticed the needle was pegged. Is this overfilled?
>>
>> I thought the needle shouldn't be past the FULL mark (80%). Gauge has been
>> working fine.
>>
>> Attendant said the hose has a back pressure shutoff, so the tank should be
>> fine. I'm not so sure of that.
>>
>> Should the extra pressure be bled off until the gauge reads at the FULL
>> (80%) mark?
>>
>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p52724-lp-overfill.html
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> It may be overfilled. Did he have the "bleed" screw open while filling? It should be open and filling should be stopped as soon as liquid starts escaping.
> --
> Bob de Kruyff
> 78 Eleganza
> Chandler, AZ
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: [GMCnet] LP Overfilled? [message #238246 is a reply to message #238242] |
Fri, 31 January 2014 17:09 |
John Olson
Messages: 96
Registered: August 2013
Karma: 0
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Member |
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Rob,
1) Yes, I watched.
2) Yes, he did open the vent before filling.
3) Inconclusive. Unfortunately I didn't inspect that segment of filling
closely enough.
My recollection is he closed the vent, and continued to fill (presumably
waiting for the back pressure stop to engage on the fill hose).
When finished and filling out the pay slip, he asked me if its an 18 gallon
tank. I told him it was 16 gallons (needle read slightly below E before
filling). The receipt read 16.3 gallons of LP, though I never checked the
meter on the fill tank. Next time I will.
I think I'll just slowly bleed off by opening the vent knob. Little by
little to avoid freezing the valve.
John Olson
76 Edgemont
Chicago, IL (currently nomadic in AZ, learning lots about the minutia of
filling LP tanks)
On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 3:46 PM, Robert Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
> John,
>
> I reckon we need a bit more information before we can answer your question
> correctly.
>
> 1) Were you watching him when he filled the tank?
>
> 2) Did he open the vent to the right of the gage before he began filling?
>
> 3) If 2) is YES; did he stop filling the tank when liquid began coming out
> the vent next to the gage?
>
> If the answers are:
>
> 1) YES
>
> 2) YES
>
> 3) YES
>
> I'd say the gage is off.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> Sydney, Australia
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Olson
>
> So the gas station attendant was filling our LP tank. While he disconnected
> the hose, I noticed the needle was pegged. Is this overfilled?
>
> I thought the needle shouldn't be past the FULL mark (80%). Gauge has been
> working fine.
>
> Attendant said the hose has a back pressure shutoff, so the tank should be
> fine. I'm not so sure of that.
>
> Should the extra pressure be bled off until the gauge reads at the FULL
> (80%) mark?
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p52724-lp-overfill.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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John Olson
76 Edgemonte
Fulltime traveler
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| Re: [GMCnet] LP Overfilled? [message #238249 is a reply to message #238246] |
Fri, 31 January 2014 17:22 |
 |
wally
Messages: 643
Registered: August 2004
Location: Omaha Nebraska
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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I'd just bleed it too. Possible liquid in the appliance lines wouldn't be good. Heck they bleed em during a fill anyway.| John Olson wrote on Fri, 31 January 2014 17:09 |
Rob,
1) Yes, I watched.
2) Yes, he did open the vent before filling.
3) Inconclusive. Unfortunately I didn't inspect that segment of filling
closely enough.
My recollection is he closed the vent, and continued to fill (presumably
waiting for the back pressure stop to engage on the fill hose).
When finished and filling out the pay slip, he asked me if its an 18 gallon
tank. I told him it was 16 gallons (needle read slightly below E before
filling). The receipt read 16.3 gallons of LP, though I never checked the
meter on the fill tank. Next time I will.
I think I'll just slowly bleed off by opening the vent knob. Little by
little to avoid freezing the valve.
John Olson
76 Edgemont
Chicago, IL (currently nomadic in AZ, learning lots about the minutia of
filling LP tanks)
On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 3:46 PM, Robert Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
> John,
>
> I reckon we need a bit more information before we can answer your question
> correctly.
>
> 1) Were you watching him when he filled the tank?
>
> 2) Did he open the vent to the right of the gage before he began filling?
>
> 3) If 2) is YES; did he stop filling the tank when liquid began coming out
> the vent next to the gage?
>
> If the answers are:
>
> 1) YES
>
> 2) YES
>
> 3) YES
>
> I'd say the gage is off.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> Sydney, Australia
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Olson
>
> So the gas station attendant was filling our LP tank. While he disconnected
> the hose, I noticed the needle was pegged. Is this overfilled?
>
> I thought the needle shouldn't be past the FULL mark (80%). Gauge has been
> working fine.
>
> Attendant said the hose has a back pressure shutoff, so the tank should be
> fine. I'm not so sure of that.
>
> Should the extra pressure be bled off until the gauge reads at the FULL
> (80%) mark?
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p52724-lp-overfill.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Wally Anderson
Omaha NE
75 Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] LP Overfilled? [message #238250 is a reply to message #238246] |
Fri, 31 January 2014 17:21 |
Emery Stora
Messages: 959
Registered: January 2011
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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John
The tank is a 62 pound tank. At 4.2 pounds/gallon that would equal 14.76 gallons. Note that 14.76 is approximately 80% of 18 gallons.
If they charged you for 16.3 gallons they overfilled it.
Go back and complain.
I had someone do that to me once at a Flying J and I asked for the manager. He agreed and they bled off the excess ang refunded some of the charge.
Emery Stora
> On Jan 31, 2014, at 4:09 PM, John Olson <johnolsondesign@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Rob,
>
> 1) Yes, I watched.
> 2) Yes, he did open the vent before filling.
> 3) Inconclusive. Unfortunately I didn't inspect that segment of filling
> closely enough.
>
> My recollection is he closed the vent, and continued to fill (presumably
> waiting for the back pressure stop to engage on the fill hose).
>
> When finished and filling out the pay slip, he asked me if its an 18 gallon
> tank. I told him it was 16 gallons (needle read slightly below E before
> filling). The receipt read 16.3 gallons of LP, though I never checked the
> meter on the fill tank. Next time I will.
>
> I think I'll just slowly bleed off by opening the vent knob. Little by
> little to avoid freezing the valve.
>
>
> John Olson
> 76 Edgemont
> Chicago, IL (currently nomadic in AZ, learning lots about the minutia of
> filling LP tanks)
>
> On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 3:46 PM, Robert Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
>
>> John,
>>
>> I reckon we need a bit more information before we can answer your question
>> correctly.
>>
>> 1) Were you watching him when he filled the tank?
>>
>> 2) Did he open the vent to the right of the gage before he began filling?
>>
>> 3) If 2) is YES; did he stop filling the tank when liquid began coming out
>> the vent next to the gage?
>>
>> If the answers are:
>>
>> 1) YES
>>
>> 2) YES
>>
>> 3) YES
>>
>> I'd say the gage is off.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rob M.
>> Sydney, Australia
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: John Olson
>>
>> So the gas station attendant was filling our LP tank. While he disconnected
>> the hose, I noticed the needle was pegged. Is this overfilled?
>>
>> I thought the needle shouldn't be past the FULL mark (80%). Gauge has been
>> working fine.
>>
>> Attendant said the hose has a back pressure shutoff, so the tank should be
>> fine. I'm not so sure of that.
>>
>> Should the extra pressure be bled off until the gauge reads at the FULL
>> (80%) mark?
>>
>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p52724-lp-overfill.html
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] LP Overfilled? [message #238252 is a reply to message #238245] |
Fri, 31 January 2014 17:26 |
John Olson
Messages: 96
Registered: August 2013
Karma: 0
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Member |
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Wow, what a great writeup.
So, on second thought, I'll take the advice of a fire chief.
Rather than bleeding off from the valve, I started running the furnace and
will check the levels again periodically.
I only opened the valve to the coach inlet about a quarter turn from
closed, possibly to avoid too much pressure in the interior lines (though I
don't know if it works that way).
At least its a coolish day here in AZ (low 60's).
John
On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 4:09 PM, scott cowden <scottyforsail@hotmail.com>wrote:
> If as others have commented the vent screw was not open during the fill
> process then the risk is that the tank was indeed overfilled. There are
> all too many pump jockey's unfamiliar with our older cylinders and the need
> to open the vent when filling operations are undertaken.
>
> The risk with overfilled cylinders is overpressurization causing damage
> and possible failure of the vessel if the cylinder is exposed to a heat
> source causing expansion of the gas inside. the normal 'air gap' at the
> top of a propane cyl is there to absorb the expansion that occurs when the
> cylinders environment changes.
>
> Possible heat sources for you to think about: direct sun exposure;
> ambient temperature (not an issue in most of the country this week!); the
> coach exhaust, or any other heat source that impinges on the cylinder while
> it has insufficient expansion space.
>
> You can burn off some of the excess gas using the appliances....cook
> dinner the next couple of nights in the coach or run the furnace for a few
> hours to burn off some fuel.
>
> This is preferable to opening the vent screw to simply vent the gas to the
> air. Venting liquid propane to air presents several direct threats to your
> safety: Removal of oxygen from the immediate area; rapidly expanding
> liquid propane will envelop the area in flammable gas, creating a big cloud
> of fuel ready to ignite with any ignition source it may encounter; freeze
> burns to you from trying to handle the gas which is exiting the valve at
> speed at -40 degrees.
>
> The expansion rate of propane from liquid to gas is staggering: every
> cubic foot of pressurized liquid propane becomes 270 cubic feet of
> flammable gas when released to the atmosphere. It would take no time at
> all for someone standing at the tank to be completely surrounded by gaseous
> propane mixed with air and instantly ready to burn if an ignition source is
> present.
>
> My recommendation would be to run the appliances to use up some of the gas
> before moving the coach any distance.
>
> Contact me offline if you'd like any further information
>
> Scott Cowden, Fire Chief (ret'd)
> '74 x-Glacier
> Newmarket ON
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 2014-01-31, at 5:45 PM, "Bob de Kruyff" <NEXT2POOL@AOL.COM> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > John Olson wrote on Fri, 31 January 2014 15:32
> >> So the gas station attendant was filling our LP tank. While he
> disconnected
> >> the hose, I noticed the needle was pegged. Is this overfilled?
> >>
> >> I thought the needle shouldn't be past the FULL mark (80%). Gauge has
> been
> >> working fine.
> >>
> >> Attendant said the hose has a back pressure shutoff, so the tank should
> be
> >> fine. I'm not so sure of that.
> >>
> >> Should the extra pressure be bled off until the gauge reads at the FULL
> >> (80%) mark?
> >>
> >>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p52724-lp-overfill.html
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> GMCnet mailing list
> >> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
> > It may be overfilled. Did he have the "bleed" screw open while filling?
> It should be open and filling should be stopped as soon as liquid starts
> escaping.
> > --
> > Bob de Kruyff
> > 78 Eleganza
> > Chandler, AZ
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
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John Olson
76 Edgemonte
Fulltime traveler
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| Re: [GMCnet] LP Overfilled? [message #238253 is a reply to message #238252] |
Fri, 31 January 2014 17:36 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
|
Senior Member |
|
|
John, Opening the propane valve part way will soon correct your overfull
problem. There is no "part way open" seal on the threads. Propane will leak
around the threads if it is part of the way open. There are two seals on
the valve. Fully open and fully closed. Just for your information.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC Royale 403
On Jan 31, 2014 3:27 PM, "John Olson" <johnolsondesign@gmail.com> wrote:
> Wow, what a great writeup.
>
> So, on second thought, I'll take the advice of a fire chief.
>
> Rather than bleeding off from the valve, I started running the furnace and
> will check the levels again periodically.
>
> I only opened the valve to the coach inlet about a quarter turn from
> closed, possibly to avoid too much pressure in the interior lines (though I
> don't know if it works that way).
>
> At least its a coolish day here in AZ (low 60's).
>
> John
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 4:09 PM, scott cowden <scottyforsail@hotmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > If as others have commented the vent screw was not open during the fill
> > process then the risk is that the tank was indeed overfilled. There are
> > all too many pump jockey's unfamiliar with our older cylinders and the
> need
> > to open the vent when filling operations are undertaken.
> >
> > The risk with overfilled cylinders is overpressurization causing damage
> > and possible failure of the vessel if the cylinder is exposed to a heat
> > source causing expansion of the gas inside. the normal 'air gap' at the
> > top of a propane cyl is there to absorb the expansion that occurs when
> the
> > cylinders environment changes.
> >
> > Possible heat sources for you to think about: direct sun exposure;
> > ambient temperature (not an issue in most of the country this week!); the
> > coach exhaust, or any other heat source that impinges on the cylinder
> while
> > it has insufficient expansion space.
> >
> > You can burn off some of the excess gas using the appliances....cook
> > dinner the next couple of nights in the coach or run the furnace for a
> few
> > hours to burn off some fuel.
> >
> > This is preferable to opening the vent screw to simply vent the gas to
> the
> > air. Venting liquid propane to air presents several direct threats to
> your
> > safety: Removal of oxygen from the immediate area; rapidly expanding
> > liquid propane will envelop the area in flammable gas, creating a big
> cloud
> > of fuel ready to ignite with any ignition source it may encounter; freeze
> > burns to you from trying to handle the gas which is exiting the valve at
> > speed at -40 degrees.
> >
> > The expansion rate of propane from liquid to gas is staggering: every
> > cubic foot of pressurized liquid propane becomes 270 cubic feet of
> > flammable gas when released to the atmosphere. It would take no time at
> > all for someone standing at the tank to be completely surrounded by
> gaseous
> > propane mixed with air and instantly ready to burn if an ignition source
> is
> > present.
> >
> > My recommendation would be to run the appliances to use up some of the
> gas
> > before moving the coach any distance.
> >
> > Contact me offline if you'd like any further information
> >
> > Scott Cowden, Fire Chief (ret'd)
> > '74 x-Glacier
> > Newmarket ON
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> > On 2014-01-31, at 5:45 PM, "Bob de Kruyff" <NEXT2POOL@AOL.COM> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > John Olson wrote on Fri, 31 January 2014 15:32
> > >> So the gas station attendant was filling our LP tank. While he
> > disconnected
> > >> the hose, I noticed the needle was pegged. Is this overfilled?
> > >>
> > >> I thought the needle shouldn't be past the FULL mark (80%). Gauge has
> > been
> > >> working fine.
> > >>
> > >> Attendant said the hose has a back pressure shutoff, so the tank
> should
> > be
> > >> fine. I'm not so sure of that.
> > >>
> > >> Should the extra pressure be bled off until the gauge reads at the
> FULL
> > >> (80%) mark?
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p52724-lp-overfill.html
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> GMCnet mailing list
> > >> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > >> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> > >
> > > It may be overfilled. Did he have the "bleed" screw open while filling?
> > It should be open and filling should be stopped as soon as liquid starts
> > escaping.
> > > --
> > > Bob de Kruyff
> > > 78 Eleganza
> > > Chandler, AZ
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] LP Overfilled? [message #238255 is a reply to message #238252] |
Fri, 31 January 2014 17:40 |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
|
Senior Member |
|
|
John,
Propane tanks have a tendency to leak when the valve is cracked open and
not open all the way. Either all the way open or all the way closed not in
between..
On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 4:26 PM, John Olson <johnolsondesign@gmail.com>wrote:
> Wow, what a great writeup.
>
> So, on second thought, I'll take the advice of a fire chief.
>
> Rather than bleeding off from the valve, I started running the furnace and
> will check the levels again periodically.
>
> I only opened the valve to the coach inlet about a quarter turn from
> closed, possibly to avoid too much pressure in the interior lines (though I
> don't know if it works that way).
>
> At least its a coolish day here in AZ (low 60's).
>
> John
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 4:09 PM, scott cowden <scottyforsail@hotmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > If as others have commented the vent screw was not open during the fill
> > process then the risk is that the tank was indeed overfilled. There are
> > all too many pump jockey's unfamiliar with our older cylinders and the
> need
> > to open the vent when filling operations are undertaken.
> >
> > The risk with overfilled cylinders is overpressurization causing damage
> > and possible failure of the vessel if the cylinder is exposed to a heat
> > source causing expansion of the gas inside. the normal 'air gap' at the
> > top of a propane cyl is there to absorb the expansion that occurs when
> the
> > cylinders environment changes.
> >
> > Possible heat sources for you to think about: direct sun exposure;
> > ambient temperature (not an issue in most of the country this week!); the
> > coach exhaust, or any other heat source that impinges on the cylinder
> while
> > it has insufficient expansion space.
> >
> > You can burn off some of the excess gas using the appliances....cook
> > dinner the next couple of nights in the coach or run the furnace for a
> few
> > hours to burn off some fuel.
> >
> > This is preferable to opening the vent screw to simply vent the gas to
> the
> > air. Venting liquid propane to air presents several direct threats to
> your
> > safety: Removal of oxygen from the immediate area; rapidly expanding
> > liquid propane will envelop the area in flammable gas, creating a big
> cloud
> > of fuel ready to ignite with any ignition source it may encounter; freeze
> > burns to you from trying to handle the gas which is exiting the valve at
> > speed at -40 degrees.
> >
> > The expansion rate of propane from liquid to gas is staggering: every
> > cubic foot of pressurized liquid propane becomes 270 cubic feet of
> > flammable gas when released to the atmosphere. It would take no time at
> > all for someone standing at the tank to be completely surrounded by
> gaseous
> > propane mixed with air and instantly ready to burn if an ignition source
> is
> > present.
> >
> > My recommendation would be to run the appliances to use up some of the
> gas
> > before moving the coach any distance.
> >
> > Contact me offline if you'd like any further information
> >
> > Scott Cowden, Fire Chief (ret'd)
> > '74 x-Glacier
> > Newmarket ON
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> > On 2014-01-31, at 5:45 PM, "Bob de Kruyff" <NEXT2POOL@AOL.COM> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > John Olson wrote on Fri, 31 January 2014 15:32
> > >> So the gas station attendant was filling our LP tank. While he
> > disconnected
> > >> the hose, I noticed the needle was pegged. Is this overfilled?
> > >>
> > >> I thought the needle shouldn't be past the FULL mark (80%). Gauge has
> > been
> > >> working fine.
> > >>
> > >> Attendant said the hose has a back pressure shutoff, so the tank
> should
> > be
> > >> fine. I'm not so sure of that.
> > >>
> > >> Should the extra pressure be bled off until the gauge reads at the
> FULL
> > >> (80%) mark?
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p52724-lp-overfill.html
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> GMCnet mailing list
> > >> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > >> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> > >
> > > It may be overfilled. Did he have the "bleed" screw open while filling?
> > It should be open and filling should be stopped as soon as liquid starts
> > escaping.
> > > --
> > > Bob de Kruyff
> > > 78 Eleganza
> > > Chandler, AZ
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
_______________________________________________
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Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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| Re: [GMCnet] LP Overfilled? [message #238256 is a reply to message #238255] |
Fri, 31 January 2014 17:41 |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Missed you Jim by 4 minutes.
On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 4:40 PM, Bruce Hart <hartsgmc@gmail.com> wrote:
> John,
> Propane tanks have a tendency to leak when the valve is cracked open and
> not open all the way. Either all the way open or all the way closed not in
> between..
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 4:26 PM, John Olson <johnolsondesign@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Wow, what a great writeup.
>>
>> So, on second thought, I'll take the advice of a fire chief.
>>
>> Rather than bleeding off from the valve, I started running the furnace and
>> will check the levels again periodically.
>>
>> I only opened the valve to the coach inlet about a quarter turn from
>> closed, possibly to avoid too much pressure in the interior lines (though
>> I
>> don't know if it works that way).
>>
>> At least its a coolish day here in AZ (low 60's).
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 4:09 PM, scott cowden <scottyforsail@hotmail.com
>> >wrote:
>>
>> > If as others have commented the vent screw was not open during the fill
>> > process then the risk is that the tank was indeed overfilled. There are
>> > all too many pump jockey's unfamiliar with our older cylinders and the
>> need
>> > to open the vent when filling operations are undertaken.
>> >
>> > The risk with overfilled cylinders is overpressurization causing damage
>> > and possible failure of the vessel if the cylinder is exposed to a heat
>> > source causing expansion of the gas inside. the normal 'air gap' at the
>> > top of a propane cyl is there to absorb the expansion that occurs when
>> the
>> > cylinders environment changes.
>> >
>> > Possible heat sources for you to think about: direct sun exposure;
>> > ambient temperature (not an issue in most of the country this week!);
>> the
>> > coach exhaust, or any other heat source that impinges on the cylinder
>> while
>> > it has insufficient expansion space.
>> >
>> > You can burn off some of the excess gas using the appliances....cook
>> > dinner the next couple of nights in the coach or run the furnace for a
>> few
>> > hours to burn off some fuel.
>> >
>> > This is preferable to opening the vent screw to simply vent the gas to
>> the
>> > air. Venting liquid propane to air presents several direct threats to
>> your
>> > safety: Removal of oxygen from the immediate area; rapidly expanding
>> > liquid propane will envelop the area in flammable gas, creating a big
>> cloud
>> > of fuel ready to ignite with any ignition source it may encounter;
>> freeze
>> > burns to you from trying to handle the gas which is exiting the valve at
>> > speed at -40 degrees.
>> >
>> > The expansion rate of propane from liquid to gas is staggering: every
>> > cubic foot of pressurized liquid propane becomes 270 cubic feet of
>> > flammable gas when released to the atmosphere. It would take no time at
>> > all for someone standing at the tank to be completely surrounded by
>> gaseous
>> > propane mixed with air and instantly ready to burn if an ignition
>> source is
>> > present.
>> >
>> > My recommendation would be to run the appliances to use up some of the
>> gas
>> > before moving the coach any distance.
>> >
>> > Contact me offline if you'd like any further information
>> >
>> > Scott Cowden, Fire Chief (ret'd)
>> > '74 x-Glacier
>> > Newmarket ON
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPad
>> >
>> > On 2014-01-31, at 5:45 PM, "Bob de Kruyff" <NEXT2POOL@AOL.COM> wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > John Olson wrote on Fri, 31 January 2014 15:32
>> > >> So the gas station attendant was filling our LP tank. While he
>> > disconnected
>> > >> the hose, I noticed the needle was pegged. Is this overfilled?
>> > >>
>> > >> I thought the needle shouldn't be past the FULL mark (80%). Gauge has
>> > been
>> > >> working fine.
>> > >>
>> > >> Attendant said the hose has a back pressure shutoff, so the tank
>> should
>> > be
>> > >> fine. I'm not so sure of that.
>> > >>
>> > >> Should the extra pressure be bled off until the gauge reads at the
>> FULL
>> > >> (80%) mark?
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> >
>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p52724-lp-overfill.html
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> GMCnet mailing list
>> > >> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> > >> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>> > >
>> > > It may be overfilled. Did he have the "bleed" screw open while
>> filling?
>> > It should be open and filling should be stopped as soon as liquid starts
>> > escaping.
>> > > --
>> > > Bob de Kruyff
>> > > 78 Eleganza
>> > > Chandler, AZ
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > GMCnet mailing list
>> > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> > > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > GMCnet mailing list
>> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Bruce Hart
> 1976 Palm Beach
> Milliken, Co
> GMC=Got More Class
>
>
--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
|
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|
| Re: [GMCnet] LP Overfilled? [message #238258 is a reply to message #238252] |
Fri, 31 January 2014 17:45 |
scott cowden
Messages: 170
Registered: February 2004
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Thanks for the kind words, John;
when i read your first post, it reminded me of some of the things I've seen over the years. Amongst others, a very dear friend of mine [I stood with him when he married] died at a major propane explosion and fire a few years back. Propane is a great fuel, but it behaves much differently than gasoline and is dangerously misunderstood by most.
It was mentioned in one of the other posts, but liquid propane entering your propane system in the coach should also be monitored.
Liquid propane, should it get picked up in the cylinder and into the regulator and piping will do a couple of very interesting (read dangerous) things.
The temperature I mentioned earlier can cause freezing of the diaphragm/spring mechanism in the pressure regulator and can render it unable to react to changes in pressure.
liquid propane in your gas lines expands something like what we spoke of earlier and may cause much larger flames emanating in the appliances. I've seen instances with bbq's where the flame exiting the burner is over a foot tall when the cylinder was tipped allowing liquid to enter the gaseous system.
Keep a watchful eye on your work here to ensure you don't have a larger than needed hazard present itself. Leave the propane compartment door open and watch for frost build up on the regulator which can be a sign of cold liquid getting into the regulator.
Lots to do to fix a problem caused by a 30 second mistake, eh?
Scott
'74 x-Glacier
Newmarket ON
Sent from my iPad
On 2014-01-31, at 6:27 PM, "John Olson" <johnolsondesign@gmail.com> wrote:
> Wow, what a great writeup.
>
> So, on second thought, I'll take the advice of a fire chief.
>
> Rather than bleeding off from the valve, I started running the furnace and
> will check the levels again periodically.
>
> I only opened the valve to the coach inlet about a quarter turn from
> closed, possibly to avoid too much pressure in the interior lines (though I
> don't know if it works that way).
>
> At least its a coolish day here in AZ (low 60's).
>
> John
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 4:09 PM, scott cowden <scottyforsail@hotmail.com>wrote:
>
>> If as others have commented the vent screw was not open during the fill
>> process then the risk is that the tank was indeed overfilled. There are
>> all too many pump jockey's unfamiliar with our older cylinders and the need
>> to open the vent when filling operations are undertaken.
>>
>> The risk with overfilled cylinders is overpressurization causing damage
>> and possible failure of the vessel if the cylinder is exposed to a heat
>> source causing expansion of the gas inside. the normal 'air gap' at the
>> top of a propane cyl is there to absorb the expansion that occurs when the
>> cylinders environment changes.
>>
>> Possible heat sources for you to think about: direct sun exposure;
>> ambient temperature (not an issue in most of the country this week!); the
>> coach exhaust, or any other heat source that impinges on the cylinder while
>> it has insufficient expansion space.
>>
>> You can burn off some of the excess gas using the appliances....cook
>> dinner the next couple of nights in the coach or run the furnace for a few
>> hours to burn off some fuel.
>>
>> This is preferable to opening the vent screw to simply vent the gas to the
>> air. Venting liquid propane to air presents several direct threats to your
>> safety: Removal of oxygen from the immediate area; rapidly expanding
>> liquid propane will envelop the area in flammable gas, creating a big cloud
>> of fuel ready to ignite with any ignition source it may encounter; freeze
>> burns to you from trying to handle the gas which is exiting the valve at
>> speed at -40 degrees.
>>
>> The expansion rate of propane from liquid to gas is staggering: every
>> cubic foot of pressurized liquid propane becomes 270 cubic feet of
>> flammable gas when released to the atmosphere. It would take no time at
>> all for someone standing at the tank to be completely surrounded by gaseous
>> propane mixed with air and instantly ready to burn if an ignition source is
>> present.
>>
>> My recommendation would be to run the appliances to use up some of the gas
>> before moving the coach any distance.
>>
>> Contact me offline if you'd like any further information
>>
>> Scott Cowden, Fire Chief (ret'd)
>> '74 x-Glacier
>> Newmarket ON
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On 2014-01-31, at 5:45 PM, "Bob de Kruyff" <NEXT2POOL@AOL.COM> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John Olson wrote on Fri, 31 January 2014 15:32
>>>> So the gas station attendant was filling our LP tank. While he
>> disconnected
>>>> the hose, I noticed the needle was pegged. Is this overfilled?
>>>>
>>>> I thought the needle shouldn't be past the FULL mark (80%). Gauge has
>> been
>>>> working fine.
>>>>
>>>> Attendant said the hose has a back pressure shutoff, so the tank should
>> be
>>>> fine. I'm not so sure of that.
>>>>
>>>> Should the extra pressure be bled off until the gauge reads at the FULL
>>>> (80%) mark?
>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p52724-lp-overfill.html
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>>
>>> It may be overfilled. Did he have the "bleed" screw open while filling?
>> It should be open and filling should be stopped as soon as liquid starts
>> escaping.
>>> --
>>> Bob de Kruyff
>>> 78 Eleganza
>>> Chandler, AZ
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] LP Overfilled? [message #238260 is a reply to message #238245] |
Fri, 31 January 2014 18:02 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Scott,
Good info!
IIRC there's a relief valve built into the supply shutoff valve on Double Trouble, wouldn't it dump liquid as well as gas?
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
-----Original Message-----
From: scott cowden
If as others have commented the vent screw was not open during the fill process then the risk is that the tank was indeed
overfilled. There are all too many pump jockey's unfamiliar with our older cylinders and the need to open the vent when filling
operations are undertaken.
The risk with overfilled cylinders is overpressurization causing damage and possible failure of the vessel if the cylinder is
exposed to a heat source causing expansion of the gas inside. the normal 'air gap' at the top of a propane cyl is there to absorb
the expansion that occurs when the cylinders environment changes.
Possible heat sources for you to think about: direct sun exposure; ambient temperature (not an issue in most of the country this
week!); the coach exhaust, or any other heat source that impinges on the cylinder while it has insufficient expansion space.
You can burn off some of the excess gas using the appliances....cook dinner the next couple of nights in the coach or run the
furnace for a few hours to burn off some fuel.
This is preferable to opening the vent screw to simply vent the gas to the air. Venting liquid propane to air presents several
direct threats to your safety: Removal of oxygen from the immediate area; rapidly expanding liquid propane will envelop the area in
flammable gas, creating a big cloud of fuel ready to ignite with any ignition source it may encounter; freeze burns to you from
trying to handle the gas which is exiting the valve at speed at -40 degrees.
The expansion rate of propane from liquid to gas is staggering: every cubic foot of pressurized liquid propane becomes 270 cubic
feet of flammable gas when released to the atmosphere. It would take no time at all for someone standing at the tank to be
completely surrounded by gaseous propane mixed with air and instantly ready to burn if an ignition source is present.
My recommendation would be to run the appliances to use up some of the gas before moving the coach any distance.
Contact me offline if you'd like any further information
Scott Cowden, Fire Chief (ret'd)
'74 x-Glacier
Newmarket ON
Sent from my iPad
On 2014-01-31, at 5:45 PM, "Bob de Kruyff" <NEXT2POOL@AOL.COM> wrote:
>
>
> John Olson wrote on Fri, 31 January 2014 15:32
>> So the gas station attendant was filling our LP tank. While he disconnected
>> the hose, I noticed the needle was pegged. Is this overfilled?
>>
>> I thought the needle shouldn't be past the FULL mark (80%). Gauge has been
>> working fine.
>>
>> Attendant said the hose has a back pressure shutoff, so the tank should be
>> fine. I'm not so sure of that.
>>
>> Should the extra pressure be bled off until the gauge reads at the FULL
>> (80%) mark?
>>
>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p52724-lp-overfill.html
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> It may be overfilled. Did he have the "bleed" screw open while filling? It should be open and filling should be stopped as soon as
liquid starts escaping.
> --
> Bob de Kruyff
> 78 Eleganza
> Chandler, AZ
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] LP Overfilled? [message #238264 is a reply to message #238250] |
Fri, 31 January 2014 18:24 |
John Olson
Messages: 96
Registered: August 2013
Karma: 0
|
Member |
|
|
Thanks Emory, I'll look into a refund.
Knowing the exact, or near exact, fill capacity for our tank once and for
all would be helpful.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p52742-stamped-plate-on-lp-ta.html
A line on the stamped plate on the LP Tank reads:
*W.C. GALS 19.3 FULL AT 80*%
Some of that stamping was faint and hard to read. I didn't even see the
"FULL" or "%" text until enhancing the photo.
Water Capacity is 19.3 gallons (per a google search for W.C.Gals). Do you
know how that would translate to LP gallons?
John
On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 4:21 PM, Emery Stora <emerystora@me.com> wrote:
> John
>
> The tank is a 62 pound tank. At 4.2 pounds/gallon that would equal 14.76
> gallons. Note that 14.76 is approximately 80% of 18 gallons.
>
> If they charged you for 16.3 gallons they overfilled it.
>
> Go back and complain.
>
> I had someone do that to me once at a Flying J and I asked for the
> manager. He agreed and they bled off the excess ang refunded some of the
> charge.
>
> Emery Stora
>
> > On Jan 31, 2014, at 4:09 PM, John Olson <johnolsondesign@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Rob,
> >
> > 1) Yes, I watched.
> > 2) Yes, he did open the vent before filling.
> > 3) Inconclusive. Unfortunately I didn't inspect that segment of filling
> > closely enough.
> >
> > My recollection is he closed the vent, and continued to fill (presumably
> > waiting for the back pressure stop to engage on the fill hose).
> >
> > When finished and filling out the pay slip, he asked me if its an 18
> gallon
> > tank. I told him it was 16 gallons (needle read slightly below E before
> > filling). The receipt read 16.3 gallons of LP, though I never checked the
> > meter on the fill tank. Next time I will.
> >
> > I think I'll just slowly bleed off by opening the vent knob. Little by
> > little to avoid freezing the valve.
> >
> >
> > John Olson
> > 76 Edgemont
> > Chicago, IL (currently nomadic in AZ, learning lots about the minutia of
> > filling LP tanks)
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 3:46 PM, Robert Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au
> >wrote:
> >
> >> John,
> >>
> >> I reckon we need a bit more information before we can answer your
> question
> >> correctly.
> >>
> >> 1) Were you watching him when he filled the tank?
> >>
> >> 2) Did he open the vent to the right of the gage before he began
> filling?
> >>
> >> 3) If 2) is YES; did he stop filling the tank when liquid began coming
> out
> >> the vent next to the gage?
> >>
> >> If the answers are:
> >>
> >> 1) YES
> >>
> >> 2) YES
> >>
> >> 3) YES
> >>
> >> I'd say the gage is off.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Rob M.
> >> Sydney, Australia
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: John Olson
> >>
> >> So the gas station attendant was filling our LP tank. While he
> disconnected
> >> the hose, I noticed the needle was pegged. Is this overfilled?
> >>
> >> I thought the needle shouldn't be past the FULL mark (80%). Gauge has
> been
> >> working fine.
> >>
> >> Attendant said the hose has a back pressure shutoff, so the tank should
> be
> >> fine. I'm not so sure of that.
> >>
> >> Should the extra pressure be bled off until the gauge reads at the FULL
> >> (80%) mark?
> >>
> >>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p52724-lp-overfill.html
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> GMCnet mailing list
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> >>
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John Olson
76 Edgemonte
Fulltime traveler
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| Re: [GMCnet] LP Overfilled? [message #238265 is a reply to message #238260] |
Fri, 31 January 2014 18:25 |
scott cowden
Messages: 170
Registered: February 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Good question;
I don't recall a relief valve on the fixed tank in my GMC.
Relief valves have been added to cylinders over the years. the OPD [Overfill Prevention Device] valve was made mandatory in Canada and the U.S in 2002 for cylinders 40 lbs and less capacity. these are required on all cylinders and have both overfill protection and pressure relief as part of the design. OPD are most visible with their distinctive '3-lobe' handles.
The internal workings of these valves stop the flow of gas when the cyl is 80% full completely preventing the problem we're discussing.
Given that these weren't widely introduced until 20 years after the last of our beasts rolled off the line, I'd be surprised if they were present.
Sent from my iPad
On 2014-01-31, at 7:02 PM, "Robert Mueller" <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> Scott,
>
> Good info!
>
> IIRC there's a relief valve built into the supply shutoff valve on Double Trouble, wouldn't it dump liquid as well as gas?
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> Sydney, Australia
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: scott cowden
>
> If as others have commented the vent screw was not open during the fill process then the risk is that the tank was indeed
> overfilled. There are all too many pump jockey's unfamiliar with our older cylinders and the need to open the vent when filling
> operations are undertaken.
>
> The risk with overfilled cylinders is overpressurization causing damage and possible failure of the vessel if the cylinder is
> exposed to a heat source causing expansion of the gas inside. the normal 'air gap' at the top of a propane cyl is there to absorb
> the expansion that occurs when the cylinders environment changes.
>
> Possible heat sources for you to think about: direct sun exposure; ambient temperature (not an issue in most of the country this
> week!); the coach exhaust, or any other heat source that impinges on the cylinder while it has insufficient expansion space.
>
> You can burn off some of the excess gas using the appliances....cook dinner the next couple of nights in the coach or run the
> furnace for a few hours to burn off some fuel.
>
> This is preferable to opening the vent screw to simply vent the gas to the air. Venting liquid propane to air presents several
> direct threats to your safety: Removal of oxygen from the immediate area; rapidly expanding liquid propane will envelop the area in
> flammable gas, creating a big cloud of fuel ready to ignite with any ignition source it may encounter; freeze burns to you from
> trying to handle the gas which is exiting the valve at speed at -40 degrees.
>
> The expansion rate of propane from liquid to gas is staggering: every cubic foot of pressurized liquid propane becomes 270 cubic
> feet of flammable gas when released to the atmosphere. It would take no time at all for someone standing at the tank to be
> completely surrounded by gaseous propane mixed with air and instantly ready to burn if an ignition source is present.
>
> My recommendation would be to run the appliances to use up some of the gas before moving the coach any distance.
>
> Contact me offline if you'd like any further information
>
> Scott Cowden, Fire Chief (ret'd)
> '74 x-Glacier
> Newmarket ON
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 2014-01-31, at 5:45 PM, "Bob de Kruyff" <NEXT2POOL@AOL.COM> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> John Olson wrote on Fri, 31 January 2014 15:32
>>> So the gas station attendant was filling our LP tank. While he disconnected
>>> the hose, I noticed the needle was pegged. Is this overfilled?
>>>
>>> I thought the needle shouldn't be past the FULL mark (80%). Gauge has been
>>> working fine.
>>>
>>> Attendant said the hose has a back pressure shutoff, so the tank should be
>>> fine. I'm not so sure of that.
>>>
>>> Should the extra pressure be bled off until the gauge reads at the FULL
>>> (80%) mark?
>>>
>>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p52724-lp-overfill.html
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>> It may be overfilled. Did he have the "bleed" screw open while filling? It should be open and filling should be stopped as soon as
> liquid starts escaping.
>> --
>> Bob de Kruyff
>> 78 Eleganza
>> Chandler, AZ
>> _______________________________________________
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