Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Tankless Water Heater
| [GMCnet] Tankless Water Heater [message #237090] |
Wed, 22 January 2014 21:21  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
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I got in trouble with HER during the trip to Tampa last week because I
wouldn't light the 6 g. Atwood water heater. Seems the last time I tried
that, I had flames everywhere from the failed regulator. Time to do
something about that before we're in a situation where engine heat and
shore power won't pacify her.
My inclination right now is to install a tankless heater in the
refrigerator compartment as some of you have done. In addition to giving
us unlimited hot water, that will allow me to convert the Atwood's
compartment to much-needed external storage.
The mission for Y'All, if you choose to accept it, is to lead me to the
right unit. What flow rating should I be looking for? What unit have you
installed and what are its pros and cons? Where did you buy it? And
problems with installation? I suspect my refrigerator compartment is a bit
smaller than most; is your choice likely to fit?
TIA,
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
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Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tankless Water Heater [message #237101 is a reply to message #237090] |
Wed, 22 January 2014 22:31  |
captjack
Messages: 271
Registered: February 2010
Location: Sebastopol, California
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There are at least two illustrated installations in Gene Fisher's web site. I've illustrated one of them. Model numbers are listed. Companies come and go, so look for similar sized units if the exact models don't come up in a web search. I recall paying around $120 for mine. Space is the big problem and the small unit that I installed is perfectly adequate to scald you in the shower should you use hot water directly.
Jack Christensen - K6ROW,
'76 Glenbrook/Clasco - "The Silver Bullet",
Sebastopol, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tankless Water Heater [message #237104 is a reply to message #237101] |
Wed, 22 January 2014 23:18 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
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Jack,
Thanks for the guidance. I knew there were some installations documented
but you saved me the research. All 3 of you did a good job.
I see you used the EZ 101 vs the Aquah 6L that Richard & Ray used. Was
there a particular reason for that choice?
My problem will also be clearance for the vent -- my custom refrigerator
installation puts the fins at the top rear of the Dometic nearly touching
the upper longitudinal member. I'm hoping I can route around that, as you
did, without extending the cabinet like Richard did -- the passageway into
the rear bath is already about as narrow as it should be.
I'll add to the library if I go ahead with this.
Ken H.
On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 11:31 PM, Jack Christensen wrote:
>
>
> There are at least two illustrated installations in Gene Fisher's web
> site. I've illustrated one of them. Model numbers are listed. Companies
> come and go, so look for similar sized units if the exact models don't come
> up in a web search. I recall paying around $120 for mine. Space is the
> big problem and the small unit that I installed is perfectly adequate to
> scald you in the shower should you use hot water directly.
>
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tankless Water Heater [message #237120 is a reply to message #237090] |
Thu, 23 January 2014 06:48 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
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At the studios, we have a little electric unit under each sink. They work great, but you do have to have one per faucet, they're low volume. Relaitive to a gas fired one, they're miniscule. Ours are "Instant - On' m,ade by Chronomite Labratories of Harbor City, CA. Model SR-30L120. The downside, they want aboutr 30 amps at 120 Volts. I'd hafta turn off everything in my coach top run the shower. I think I'll stick with the one supplied with the coach.
--johnny
From: Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>
To: gmclist <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 10:21 PM
Subject: [GMCnet] Tankless Water Heater
I got in trouble with HER during the trip to Tampa last week because I
wouldn't light the 6 g. Atwood water heater. Seems the last time I tried
that, I had flames everywhere from the failed regulator. Time to do
something about that before we're in a situation where engine heat and
shore power won't pacify her.
My inclination right now is to install a tankless heater in the
refrigerator compartment as some of you have done. In addition to giving
us unlimited hot water, that will allow me to convert the Atwood's
compartment to much-needed external storage.
The mission for Y'All, if you choose to accept it, is to lead me to the
right unit. What flow rating should I be looking for? What unit have you
installed and what are its pros and cons? Where did you buy it? And
problems with installation? I suspect my refrigerator compartment is a bit
smaller than most; is your choice likely to fit?
TIA,
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tankless Water Heater [message #237126 is a reply to message #237121] |
Thu, 23 January 2014 07:18 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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They work on the showers in the building downsatirs, but those showers are water saving restircted flow ones. I only have them on our sink faucets... which are also modern low flow rate ones. Half a gallon a minute they say. Mixed reviews, and that seems to be dependant on use.
--johnny
From: RC Jordan <rc@rcjordan.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2014 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Tankless Water Heater
>electric
My company (and my competitors) quit selling those due to so many customer complaints about flow rate, Johnny. I don't think think they'd keep up with a shower.
Amazon reviews here:
http://www.amazon.com/Chronomite-SR-30L-120-HTR-Instant-Flow/product-reviews/B0012QFE2K/?showViewpoints=1
There is a 240v model, too.
--
77 Royale Coachmen Side Dry Bath
76 Birchaven Coachmen Side Wet Bath
Elizabeth City, NC
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tankless Water Heater [message #237129 is a reply to message #237126] |
Thu, 23 January 2014 07:54 |
jknezek
Messages: 1057
Registered: December 2007
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Ken wasn't asking about electric so it is a moot point. I will simply add that I did a bucket of research on the electric ones to see if I could make one work in the coach and the answer was an unequivocable "NO". The flow rate and the electricity draw were incompatible with basic needs for every model I checked. At 30amps, you might be able to get 90 degree water at a half gallon per minute. Lukewarm and drippy.
As for the gas ones, I'll let someone who has put one in his coach respond as it is pretty clear that they work well.
Thanks,
Jeremy Knezek
1976 Glenbrook
Birmingham, AL
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tankless Water Heater [message #237133 is a reply to message #237131] |
Thu, 23 January 2014 08:51 |
stick miller
Messages: 1036
Registered: March 2010
Location: Americus, Georgia
Karma: 0
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Johnny, I believe, is talking about something a little different. Those "at the tap" heaters provide instant hot water for small volume use. Great in a bathroom lavatory or at the in the kitchen. The constant flow Rinnai type works great at home, however it is not instant. It takes time for the water to flow from the heater to the shower just like with a regular water heater - not much problem in the coach.
I would think unlimited hot water would only really be good when a dump station is available due to the small capacity of our holding tanks.
Stick Miller
'78 Royale - "White Trash" - she left me for another man
'76 Eleganza - "Cousin Eddie" Sold
'84 Bluebird Wanderlodge - "Past Tents"
Americus, GA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tankless Water Heater [message #237134 is a reply to message #237101] |
Thu, 23 January 2014 09:05 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
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good show jack
and be sure to go here to see a great presentation
on the tank less
http://gmc49ers.blogspot.com/2013/12/good-news-for-gmc-ers.html
and kw's great work from KenH's great work on the combo valve
all free to all 8,000 gmc'ers
gene
On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 8:31 PM, Jack Christensen <captjack@sonic.net>wrote:
>
>
> There are at least two illustrated installations in Gene Fisher's web
> site. I've illustrated one of them. Model numbers are listed. Companies
> come and go, so look for similar sized units if the exact models don't come
> up in a web search. I recall paying around $120 for mine. Space is the
> big problem and the small unit that I installed is perfectly adequate to
> scald you in the shower should you use hot water directly.
>
> --
> Jack Christensen - K6ROW,
> '76 Glenbrook/Clasco - "The Silver Bullet",
> '65 Clark Cortez,
> Sebastopol, CA
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tankless Water Heater [message #237141 is a reply to message #237101] |
Thu, 23 January 2014 09:46 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
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Guys, didn't see what you were putting in but if you are using one of those "outside" LP on demand water heaters mounted inside say the frig compartment man, be careful -- that things puts out some pretty hot air! You need to be sure there is little in the path of that exh. air. Plastic things will melt, metal things will get hot. I'm concerned about a fire issue with it.
If that's not what you're doing, forget I mentioned this,
Jim Bounds
----------------------------
PS: and the right answer is not, "I haven't had any problems ---- yet"!
________________________________
From: Jack Christensen <captjack@sonic.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 11:31 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Tankless Water Heater
There are at least two illustrated installations in Gene Fisher's web site. I've illustrated one of them. Model numbers are listed. Companies come and go, so look for similar sized units if the exact models don't come up in a web search. I recall paying around $120 for mine. Space is the big problem and the small unit that I installed is perfectly adequate to scald you in the shower should you use hot water directly.
--
Jack Christensen - K6ROW,
'76 Glenbrook/Clasco - "The Silver Bullet",
'65 Clark Cortez,
Sebastopol, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tankless Water Heater [message #237164 is a reply to message #237141] |
Thu, 23 January 2014 11:49 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Jim,
I think everyone's been pretty careful, to the extent of running
temperature tests; and, ensuring that correct venting and fireproofing of
surroundings is provided. And I'll do the same if I go ahead. But I've
got to add to the cost of the installation that for your refrigerator
compartment extinguisher system -- I won't go ahead without that. A
nearly-new 40' Monaco parked at Star Racing, next door to my
welder/machinist's place went up a few months ago -- reefer fire.
Convinced me!
Ken H.
On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 10:46 AM, Jim Bounds wrote:
> Guys, didn't see what you were putting in but if you are using one of
> those "outside" LP on demand water heaters mounted inside say the frig
> compartment man, be careful -- that things puts out some pretty hot air!
> You need to be sure there is little in the path of that exh. air. Plastic
> things will melt, metal things will get hot. I'm concerned about a fire
> issue with it.
>
> If that's not what you're doing, forget I mentioned this,
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tankless Water Heater [message #237169 is a reply to message #237090] |
Thu, 23 January 2014 12:15 |
captjack
Messages: 271
Registered: February 2010
Location: Sebastopol, California
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Jim Bounds raised a good point about heat and potential fire danger. If you look at pictures of my install on Gene's site, you'll see that I lined the wall of the coach with sheetmetal all the way up to the refrigerator vent. I also lined the inside of the refrigerator roof vent cover with sheetmetal. I further added two fans to increase the air flow. Additionally I created a double walled exhaust stack, sort of like a class B vent, to minimize the vent temp. Some of this is, I'm sure, overkill since the vent temp isn't really that high, but a fire can spoil your whole day. I'm still thinking of adding one of Jim's fire extinguishers since I've now got two flame creating devices is this space.
Getting the vent pipe through the space at the top of the refrigerator to run it up to the roof vent was a problem. The refrigerator fins do compress the vent pipe a slight amount. I did consider trimming a vent fin or two, but decided against it.
Here are links to two relevant web sites.
http://www.eztankless.com/products/tankless-water-heaters/ez101-outdoor/
http://gmcmotorhome.info/living#DEMAND
Jack Christensen - K6ROW,
'76 Glenbrook/Clasco - "The Silver Bullet",
Sebastopol, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tankless Water Heater [message #237186 is a reply to message #237169] |
Thu, 23 January 2014 14:47 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Jack,
I'm concerned about in-place serviceability. Access to the back side of my
refrigerator is even more restricted than most. While I have the usual
after-market plastic access panel, one of the vertical ribs runs right
through the middle of the opening. When I refurbished the coach in '98 I
was tempted to cut that obstruction out, but decided against it for
structural integrity. Its presence has not been a significant problem but
now I'm wondering about access to the tankless unit. What is there a need
to "get to"?
How about the batteries, are they accessible without removing the unit's
cover? Perhaps it will make sense to use a voltage regulator off of the 12
VDC supply and eliminate them?
I don't fully understand the functions of the 3 knobs on the units. I
presume the lower two are to vary the H20 flow rate and the flame size;
what's the other do? Do you just set the first two to Max and leave them
there? From photos, it looks as if I can position a unit so the rib will
be between the two lower ones, but access to the upper one may be a problem
-- unless it can be moved.
I'm still wondering how you chose the unit you did -- the ads I've seen
don't give me much to decide between about 3 different brands, Aquah, EZ,
and Marey, but I seem to be tending toward the latter (not sure I know why).
Ken H.
On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Jack Christensen <captjack@sonic.net>wrote:
>
>
> Jim Bounds raised a good point about heat and potential fire danger. If
> you look at pictures of my install on Gene's site, you'll see that I lined
> the wall of the coach with sheetmetal all the way up to the refrigerator
> vent. I also lined the inside of the refrigerator roof vent cover with
> sheetmetal. I further added two fans to increase the air flow.
> Additionally I created a double walled exhaust stack, sort of like a class
> B vent, to minimize the vent temp. Some of this is, I'm sure, overkill
> since the vent temp isn't really that high, but a fire can spoil your whole
> day. I'm still thinking of adding one of Jim's fire extinguishers since
> I've now got two flame creating devices is this space.
>
> Getting the vent pipe through the space at the top of the refrigerator to
> run it up to the roof vent was a problem. The refrigerator fins do
> compress the vent pipe a slight amount. I did consider trimming a vent fin
> or two, but decided against it.
>
> Here are links to two relevant web sites.
>
> http://www.eztankless.com/products/tankless-water-heaters/ez101-outdoor/
>
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/living#DEMAND
> --
> Jack Christensen - K6ROW,
> '76 Glenbrook/Clasco - "The Silver Bullet",
> '65 Clark Cortez,
> Sebastopol, CA
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tankless Water Heater [message #237190 is a reply to message #237131] |
Thu, 23 January 2014 15:20 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Sean,
I can assure you that loosing 50 lb from a vehicle that weighs over 10,000 pounds will have a miniscule (if any) effect on mpg.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Sean Kidd
Come to think of it, I'm sure there are some economics to replacing the 6G unit...for one my PO installed some Italian made unit
that has no provisions for draining, tight fit under the sink, so I'll save on the pink stuff...
But losing 50 lbs of water weight alone must have some bearing on mpg...I bet there is another 10 or 15 pounds for the tank.
--
Sean
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tankless Water Heater [message #237218 is a reply to message #237090] |
Thu, 23 January 2014 19:36 |
 |
SeanKidd
Messages: 747
Registered: June 2012
Location: Northern Neck Virginia
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Tony, although domestic hot water circulatory save water, they do not save energy, even when not running, a convection loop is created and hot water will move to the cold side due to a pressure imbalance, your hot water heater will cycle more frequently. A heat trap or solenoid would be required to prevent this.
Sean (certified energy manager) Kidd
Rob, probably right on the weight...furthermore most likely store more stuff that would weigh more negating any meager savings.
Sean and Stephanie
73 Ex-CanyonLands 26' #317 "Oliver"
Hubler 1-Ton, Quad-Bags, Rear Disc, Reaction Arms, P.Huber TBs, 3.70:1 LSD Honda 6500 inverter gen.
Colonial Travelers
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| Re: [GMCnet] Tankless Water Heater [message #237222 is a reply to message #237218] |
Thu, 23 January 2014 20:58 |
Ultravan Owners
Messages: 443
Registered: March 2013
Karma: 0
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| SeanKidd wrote on Thu, 23 January 2014 20:36 |
Tony, although domestic hot water circulatory save water, they do not save energy, even when not running, a convection loop is created and hot water will move to the cold side due to a pressure imbalance, your hot water heater will cycle more frequently. A heat trap or solenoid would be required to prevent this.
Sean (certified energy manager) Kidd
Rob, probably right on the weight...furthermore most likely store more stuff that would weigh more negating any meager savings.
|
Sean,
The hot water ONLY circulates when there is a demand. One has to push the button to turn the circulating pump on. Just like the Tankless Water Heaters we are talking about. Only when one turns the hot water on - does the hot water heater fire up to make the hot water.
Also the system I am talking about comes with all the bells and whistles needed. They were designed and made for houses where a bathroom or whatnot is so far way from the hot water tank it always waste metered water and for us on a spetic it adds more water to the spetic bed before you ever get the hot water you wanted to use in the first place.
The kit has oneway valves that will sense the hot water and once it does it completely stops the circulation. Then you can use the hot water and not have to wait on it nor does it waste water.
Plus it will ONLY circulate when you push the button to get the hot water to the tap when you are needing to use hot/warm water.
I strongly feel this setup would do wonders for dry camping and for those times when you do NOT want to stand around waiting for warmer/hot water in your RV. Plus you would not be wasting fresh water with the RV having a restricted fresh water supply during dry camping. It would simply dump the cold water back into the fresh water tank.
BTW - Who said anything about wanting saving energy?
I simply want hot water when I want it and not to have to wait for it. 
Just MTCW...
Tony (Ontario Canada)
Marie and I are blessed to have had a 2nd chance to buy our farm.
Still hoping and more importantly praying to be able to build a garage.
Our 1970 Ultravan #520 has an Olds Toronado 455 in back.
[Updated on: Thu, 23 January 2014 21:03] Report message to a moderator |
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