Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] GMC's with Caddy 500's
| [GMCnet] GMC's with Caddy 500's [message #235530] |
Wed, 08 January 2014 18:04  |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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G'day,
I was wondering how many people have Caddy 500's in their GMC?
I know of the following:
Larry Weidner
Bob Miller
Gary Kosier
Bill Bramlet
Paul Bartz
Jim Wagner
Paul Leavitt
Rob Mueller
Russ Harms
Ken Henderson
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC's with Caddy 500's [message #235536 is a reply to message #235530] |
Wed, 08 January 2014 18:36  |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Rob
It is rumored that JimK has a Cad 500 -- stretched to 540 -
Dennis
| Robert Mueller wrote on Wed, 08 January 2014 18:04 |
G'day,
I was wondering how many people have Caddy 500's in their GMC?
I know of the following:
Larry Weidner
Bob Miller
Gary Kosier
Bill Bramlet
Paul Bartz
Jim Wagner
Paul Leavitt
Rob Mueller
Russ Harms
Ken Henderson
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC's with Caddy 500's [message #235554 is a reply to message #235539] |
Wed, 08 January 2014 20:45 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Well, I can tell you that my current problems getting the Cad500 running
again are ALL dumb-a** amateur screw-ups!
The first problem I had, which lasted through several short-hour days, was
being unable to get spark when I tried to start the engine. Finally, I
noticed that hidden beneath the forward-mounted distributor and the
adjacent A/C compressor was an un-connected plug. After I connected the
distributor body to the distributor cap, for some reason the engine fired
right up!
But I didn't let it run very long because it was spitting, backfiring, or
something back through the throttle body. A resetting of the initial
ignition timing (with a timing light during the spitting) let it run a
little better, but still spitting pretty regularly, especially when I tried
to get up to the 2000 rpm required for proper break-in of the new cam &
lifters. So I shut it down quickly.
After lots of head scratching and questioning 'most everybody, I ran a
compression test and found #4 cylinder pressure at 130 psi while most were
around 165. A leak down test on that cylinder didn't indicate a serious
leak, so I continued to scratch my bald head.
After discussions with John Beaver, my engine builder friend, in whose shop
I do the assemblies after he does the machining, we thought maybe the
lifter pre-load was off on #4, so I pulled the rocker cover and checked
that -- all on that bank seemed to be good, so I discounted that and didn't
check the right bank (where the hatch and my EFI wiring really complicate
the job).
With everything set up to run again, John came over and I ran the engine
while he checked exhaust, etc. Still no good ideas until I happened to
glance at the oil pressure gauge and found it pegged -- at the BOTTOM!
SURELY I checked oil pressure immediately after starting the engine, it
least the first time if not EVERY time!? Since I couldn't/can't remember
what the initial pressure was, I must assume I never looked. Suspecting
(hoping) the much-disturbed oil pressure sender might be bad, I installed a
mechanical gauge in its place. STILL no oil pressure!
Now that's REALLY strange because I did an extended pre-oil using a drill
to drive the oil pump before I installed the distributor. It took quite a
while to prime the pump, but once primed, it really loaded the drill. I
probably ran for at least 20 minutes. How can the pump have failed that
quickly?
Today, I called my Cad guru, Gary Kosier (who, incidentally, had some GREAT
health news which he hasn't let most of you know he even needed). He
didn't understand all my symptoms any better than anyone else, but he did
come up with an idea: There's a passage just above the external oil pump
which is closed with a barely-accessible plug. That passage feeds oil pump
output to the fore-aft gallery which feeds all 8 of the right bank lifters
AND the Oil Pressure Sender. A gauge there should reveal a blockage of the
fore-aft passage.
When I finally got the plug out, with an 18" extension, U-joint, and 5/16"
Allen wrench socket, I realized I'd never be able to get a pressure gauge
into that location. So instead I installed the oil pressure gauge with a
Tee and a Schrader valve. When I applied compressed air to the valve, I
got flow out the open port at the front -- proving there's no blockage
there. :-(
That left the Oil Pump as the culprit. Perhaps the distributor's drive to
the pump broke? Or the pump drive shaft? Or??? Oh yeah, I forgot to
mention: Last week when I went to install the oil pump, we discovered that
the wrong gasket was included in the overhaul set. No problem; I had
plenty of the correct quality and thickness of gasket material, so I made
one -- a simple 10 minute job with a small ball-peen hammer.
After disconnecting the oil cooler lines, removing their adapter, and
pulling the 5 attaching bolts, I had the culprit in my hand -- the hand of
the culprit. Yep, you guessed it -- I failed to cut an oil passage in the
gasket -- there was NO WAY for oil to circulate!
Talk about stupid, careless, dumb,...!!! Far worse than leaving the
essential distributor wire disconnected! Especially since I ran the engine
for perhaps as much as 10 minutes, total, at up to 2000 rpm briefly, with
NO OIL PRESSURE! I'll be very lucky if the engine survived without eating
up the bearings, scoring the cylinder walls/pistons, or scuffing the new
camshaft. Actually, I'm less worried about the cam than anything else
because it was heavily coated with break-in lube. The rest of the engine
was not disassembled, so had only residual oil from its last run.
With a newly, more carefully, made gasket and the pump re-installed, I
pre-lubed again with the drill: Even at that slow rotation speed, I now
have 65 psi (with 40*F oil).
If I EVER do any more serious mechanic work, I'm going to have to get
someone to double check everything I do; it's obvious I'm "over the hill".
Y'all keep your fingers, or whatever, crossed for me tomorrow. I'll be
buttoning everything back up and (attempting) starting the engine. Hope
it's not too badly damaged by my foolishness and that I'll be able to use
it as-is.
OK, stop the ROTFL! :-(
Ken H.
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC's with Caddy 500's [message #235559 is a reply to message #235530] |
Wed, 08 January 2014 21:41 |
Steve
Messages: 506
Registered: September 2013
Location: East Greenville, Pa
Karma: 1
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Good luck Ken.
I thought only I had problems like that.
1978 GMC Royal
Eastern Pennslyvania
1968 Chevrolet C20 396 Camper Special
1969 Chevrolet C20 Camper Special
1985 Buick Electra Park Avenue
1992 Camaro 25th Anniversary Heretage Edition Black
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC's with Caddy 500's [message #235564 is a reply to message #235562] |
Thu, 09 January 2014 00:57 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Larry,
I have made it to Many International conventions with the Cad, but no one
notices it.
When I do not most notice.
By the way, I think Rob left my name off as he knows I have a Cadderrack
engine, better known as an Ornamental version of a Cadicac
On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 10:23 PM, Jim Kanomata <jimkanomata@gmail.com> wrote:
> Emery,
> There are more than 3 time the amount Rob counted.
> I have one that should be counted.
> Have over 800,000miles on them since 1990.
> Were not afraid to share our problems with the group as we learn more this
> way.
> I will continue posting them and hope others will and not listen to Emery.
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 7:41 PM, Steve Adams <sjadams@ptd.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Good luck Ken.
>>
>> I thought only I had problems like that.
>> --
>> 1978 GMC Royal
>> 1968 Chevrolet C20 396 Camper Special
>> 1969 Chevrolet C20 Camper Special
>> 1985 Buick Electra Park Avenue
>> 1992 Camaro 25th Anniversary Heretage Edition Black
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
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jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC's with Caddy 500's [message #235572 is a reply to message #235531] |
Thu, 09 January 2014 07:24 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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They >are< more prolific writers. Also, it's an engine swap which pretty much always wants more concern than the OEM setup. Plus it's in a use it wasn't designed for - it's living on its built-in leeway just like the OEM engine. Ken H at least has also had way more than his share of bad luck and 'gotchas' with his.
--johnny
76 23' transmode Norris w/bone stock 455
From: Emery Stora <emerystora@me.com>
To: "gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org" <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 8, 2014 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] GMC's with Caddy 500's
I am wondering why we read so much more about all the problems people are having with their Caddy engines than we do about problems with the 455 engines especially when you only list 10 people that you know who have the Caddy engines. Are they really that more problem prone or our the owners just more prolific writers? :) :)
Emery Stora
On Jan 8, 2014, at 5:04 PM, Robert Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> G'day,
>
> I was wondering how many people have Caddy 500's in their GMC?
>
> I know of the following:
>
> Larry Weidner
> Bob Miller
> Gary Kosier
> Bill Bramlet
> Paul Bartz
> Jim Wagner
> Paul Leavitt
> Rob Mueller
> Russ Harms
> Ken Henderson
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> Sydney, Australia
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC's with Caddy 500's [message #235576 is a reply to message #235531] |
Thu, 09 January 2014 08:53 |
bryant374
Messages: 563
Registered: May 2004
Location: Pleasant Valley, NY 12569
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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I have wondered about the "Caddy 500" transplant for some time and have just one question, "WHY".
We all know and recognize the Olds 455 is a reliable, highly respected engine.
What are the real advantages over the original engine that causes the Caddy 500 to be worthy of the conversion efforts and expense other than the "gee whiz, its got a Caddy 500".
I had 2 GMCMH friends back in the late 1980s who had Caddy 500s in their MH, both were trouble prone and they both converted back to 455s. I have wondered ever since, "WHY".
Bill Bryant
PO 1976~PB (owned 34 years)
1914 Ford (owned 70 years)
1965 Corvette (owned 39 years)
GMC Motorhome History
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC's with Caddy 500's [message #235581 is a reply to message #235530] |
Thu, 09 January 2014 09:09 |
cbryan
Messages: 451
Registered: May 2012
Location: Ennis, Texas
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Count me in the fraternity of 500 owners.
I have been pleased, though I have some tappet noise, though I do have an aftermarket rocker shaft setup.
Are you forgetting JimK's 500?
Carey
Carey from Ennis, Texas
78 Royale, 500 Cadillac, Rance Baxter EFI.
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC's with Caddy 500's [message #235582 is a reply to message #235580] |
Thu, 09 January 2014 09:22 |
Larry
Messages: 2875
Registered: January 2004
Location: Menomonie, WI
Karma: 10
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| Matt Colie wrote on Thu, 09 January 2014 09:00 |
With reference to what Ken Henderson wrote on Wed, 08 January 2014 21:45
Ken,
I expect your engine is just fine.
On a few (very few) occasions, I have had to intentionally run engines without any oil pressure for that long and found no damage.
If you go down the (previously published) list of things that the "lube oil" is supposed to do in a modern engine, lubricate (as in prevent metal to metal contact) is way down the list and the more important things are all in response to load in the engine.
Would it be stupid to run the engine a while and then check the filter for sparklies? NO, but I would get too very upcided about the event.
Matt
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I'm with Matt on this, at least I have my fingers and toes crossed for you. I'm reminded of all of the times I have been at a Circus or State Fair and observed these vendors with their "snake oil" that had been put in an engine, drained and run with no oil and no damage. They ran the motors a lot longer than the 10 minutes you did, put oil back in them and drove it to the next State Fair. I do know how you feel though...the front of my forehead is getting flat from all of the times I have DUHHH, and bitch slapped myself.
Larry 
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC's with Caddy 500's [message #235583 is a reply to message #235554] |
Thu, 09 January 2014 09:29 |
cbryan
Messages: 451
Registered: May 2012
Location: Ennis, Texas
Karma: 3
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Ken,
A close colleague of mine has a 5.7 liter Toyota Sequoia. Took it out of town 21 miles to get the oil changed. They drained it, put on a new filter and didn't fill it. She drove it in complete confidence for 61 miles. Started to make noises. They came and filled it up with oil, and five years later it's still running quietly.
Had another colleague go to a quick oil change place, same story. Honda Civic. Lunched the engine, spun a bearing within 15 miles.
YMMV.
Carey
Carey from Ennis, Texas
78 Royale, 500 Cadillac, Rance Baxter EFI.
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC's with Caddy 500's [message #235584 is a reply to message #235530] |
Thu, 09 January 2014 09:43 |
Cadillackeeper
Messages: 464
Registered: October 2012
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Karma: 1
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I will say this,I love my car and the hot rod 514 in it.The difference is if you are in lets say Montana on a Sunday in the rain and the mechanical fuel pump goes out.
the local parts guy will Not have a 500 pump in stock ,but an Olds 455 no trouble.
Same goes for a water pump or.... My coach will stay 455 however the 66/7 tranny
would not bother me in it.
77 455 Elaganza II and 67 Animal, Built 500 Powered Eldo
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