Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Ominous noises two: still ticking
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ominous noises two: still ticking [message #232970 is a reply to message #232966] |
Thu, 12 December 2013 18:12   |
jim kanomata
Messages: 257
Registered: March 2007
Location: fremont,ca
Karma: 12
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Take the inner fender off and take the hose to the exaust.
as the exhaust pulse changes, the sound will change.
Sounds like an exaust lak.
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ominous noises two: still ticking [message #232971 is a reply to message #232966] |
Thu, 12 December 2013 18:29 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Patrick,
Unrelated to the noise I saw something I didn't like AT ALL! It appears there is a fuel filter in the line that goes to the carb
from the fuel pump that is connected with rubber hoses. That is a VERY bad idea!
I recommend that you remove that filter and replace the line a new line.
Should you desire you can get an insulated flexible line here:
http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/853
OR a solid line:
http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/918
Be advised it is much easier to R&R the filter in the Q-Jet with the flexible line.
Move the filter you've removed here:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/random-photos/p44268-metal-fuel-filter.html
You don't want ANY rubber lines between the fuel pump and the carb, they can spring a leak and cause an engine fire!
As far as the noise goes if I were you I'd remove the wheel well and wheel on the passenger side for better access which might help
you pinpoint the noise. I'd do that before I took the valve cover off.
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Fitzmorris
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 10:33 AM
To: gmclist
Subject: [GMCnet] Ominous noises two: still ticking
So, I am horrible at following through with things, but here's a little
more video log type stuff as I snail's pace my way through the process
This one is actually in daylight!
https://plus.google.com/117951773290007698116/posts/ea7s1Wr7vYQ
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ominous noises two: still ticking [message #232974 is a reply to message #232970] |
Thu, 12 December 2013 18:55 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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He may also have a bad spark plug, plug wire, distributor cap, vacuum leak or other things.
I'm not really sure what I hear is "ominous" but what do I know?
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~~ k2gkk @ hotmail dot com ~~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ex-Palm Beach, 76 ~ ~ ~
~~ k2gkk + hotmail dot com ~~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 18:12:55 -0600
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Ominous noises two: still ticking
>
> Take the inner fender off and take the hose to the exaust.
> as the exhaust pulse changes, the sound will change.
> Sounds like an exaust lak.
> --
> Applied/GMC, Fremont, CA
> 1-800-752-7502
> jimk@appliedgmc.com
> www.appliedgmc.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ominous noises two: still ticking [message #232975 is a reply to message #232966] |
Thu, 12 December 2013 19:18 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Sounds like a crank speed knock. Taking off the vslve cover is a waste if time if it is s crank speed knock. My guess is a sloppy tolerance rod bearing letting the piston slap the ridge on the head. At one point it was quite at idle and rapping at about 1500. Classic case of this problem where below a certain piston speed the oil film in the bearing can contain it from over excurding. An exhaust leak is 1/2 engine speed as well so watch the balancer speed up front compared to the noise. IF it is a 1/2 speed knock ( you hope) don't rule out the fuel pump arm ticking. At starup it seems your hi idle cam is not working or a bit underadjusted.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ominous noises two: still ticking [message #233007 is a reply to message #232966] |
Fri, 13 December 2013 12:19 |
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SeanKidd
Messages: 747
Registered: June 2012
Location: Northern Neck Virginia
Karma: 4
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Hook up your timing light, connect to each spark plug on the suspecting side the noise is emanating...hold the light on a flat object and watch the light while listening to the tick. The cylinder that the tick is synchronous to the light flash is your culprit. If the tick occurs every time light is off, it is an exhaust leak, if tick occurs every time it is on, it's bad spark plug (or no light at all, bad wire or dizzy).
If it occurs both light on/off it is the crank/con rod on that cylinder.
Sean and Stephanie
73 Ex-CanyonLands 26' #317 "Oliver"
Hubler 1-Ton, Quad-Bags, Rear Disc, Reaction Arms, P.Huber TBs, 3.70:1 LSD Honda 6500 inverter gen.
Colonial Travelers
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ominous noises two: still ticking [message #233024 is a reply to message #233008] |
Fri, 13 December 2013 16:36 |
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fitzmorrispr
Messages: 137
Registered: February 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Karma: 0
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Sean, that is excellent info. Hadn't seen the explanation you gave before,
though I had heard about using a timing light to figure out if it was 1/2
engine speed.
Rob, Charles: I hadn't thought of that risk, and here I was planning on
getting the fire fight system installed. In my defence, that filter is a
replacement I installed for the warped one that was already there when I
took delivery. I'll do it right asap.
Rob, is it just me, or is the flexible line shorter?
...You don't want ANY rubber lines between the fuel pump and the carb, they
can spring a leak and cause an engine fire!
NOTHING!!
I had an adjustable pressure dohicky on mine that sprung a leak thru the
middle of the dial knob. Interesting time for a bit...
(Ever see flames from a flasheover ALL around the edge of your hatch???)
Luckily, just a flashover, but it got a couple of wires & etc...
Got the flexible insulated line from JimK...
--
CBWood
77 Kingslay
MWC OK
ONLINE PARTS PROGRAM
http://cbwoodsr.no-ip.org/GMCParts/index.asp
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The Greatfruit: 1973, 26', Canyon Lands or Painted Desert, in Pineapple Yellow
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ominous noises two: still ticking [message #233026 is a reply to message #233024] |
Fri, 13 December 2013 16:48 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Patrick,
No need to defend yourself even if you did it, when we were compiling information for the Fire Prevention document
(http://www.gmceast.com/technical/Mueller_GMCer-Fire-Guide.pdf) I think we ALL learned a lot of things that could cause a fire that
we had never even thought of!
Yes the flexible line is shorter because it takes a more "direct" route from the mechanical fuel pump to the carb.
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Fitzmorris
Rob, Charles: I hadn't thought of that risk, and here I was planning on
getting the fire fight system installed. In my defence, that filter is a
replacement I installed for the warped one that was already there when I
took delivery. I'll do it right asap.
Rob, is it just me, or is the flexible line shorter?
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ominous noises two: still ticking [message #233029 is a reply to message #232975] |
Fri, 13 December 2013 17:51 |
KevinZ
Messages: 20
Registered: November 2013
Location: Oswego NY
Karma: 0
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| JohnL455 wrote on Thu, 12 December 2013 20:18 |
Sounds like a crank speed knock. Taking off the vslve cover is a waste if time if it is s crank speed knock. My guess is a sloppy tolerance rod bearing letting the piston slap the ridge on the head. At one point it was quite at idle and rapping at about 1500. Classic case of this problem where below a certain piston speed the oil film in the bearing can contain it from over excurding. An exhaust leak is 1/2 engine speed as well so watch the balancer speed up front compared to the noise. IF it is a 1/2 speed knock ( you hope) don't rule out the fuel pump arm ticking. At starup it seems your hi idle cam is not working or a bit underadjusted.
|
I hear a lifter noise.
Simple check with a long screwdriver, plastic end at your ear and move down from front to back on each side will help isolate.
Lower noise can be checked as well, just not as easy.
Lifters out of adjustment can account for the vibration also.
KZ
Oswego, NY
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ominous noises two: still ticking [message #233041 is a reply to message #233007] |
Fri, 13 December 2013 20:28 |
Steve
Messages: 506
Registered: September 2013
Location: East Greenville, Pa
Karma: 1
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| SeanKidd wrote on Fri, 13 December 2013 13:19 |
Hook up your timing light, connect to each spark plug on the suspecting side the noise is emanating...hold the light on a flat object and watch the light while listening to the tick. The cylinder that the tick is synchronous to the light flash is your culprit. If the tick occurs every time light is off, it is an exhaust leak, if tick occurs every time it is on, it's bad spark plug (or no light at all, bad wire or dizzy).
If it occurs both light on/off it is the crank/con rod on that cylinder.
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Sean, that is good advice. Sometimes you just have to think it through. The day my son and i were at your place I had a loud tick in my 69 Chevy truck that I was worried about. I was fortunate to finally determine that it was a small exhaust leak A new aluminum header gasket did the trick. There was just a small section of the gasket that was blown out.
1978 GMC Royal
Eastern Pennslyvania
1968 Chevrolet C20 396 Camper Special
1969 Chevrolet C20 Camper Special
1985 Buick Electra Park Avenue
1992 Camaro 25th Anniversary Heretage Edition Black
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ominous noises two: still ticking [message #233151 is a reply to message #233042] |
Sun, 15 December 2013 17:27 |
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fitzmorrispr
Messages: 137
Registered: February 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Gee mickey, I hope not.
Kevin, I've had that suggested a couple of times, and was planning on doing
that next time I fiddled with it, but...
I think I might not need to. See, I think ive found something:
https://plus.google.com/117951773290007698116/posts/aYxyFwMxN5v
Second video is the one that matters
can be a bent push rod or broken valve spring. Maybe. but would be more
than a tink. more like a cling tink ping plunking sound.
Mickey anaheim ca. 77 pa[m beach :-)
On Dec 13, 2013, at 3:51 PM, Kevin Zirbel wrote:
>
>
> JohnL455 wrote on Thu, 12 December 2013 20:18
>> Sounds like a crank speed knock. Taking off the vslve cover is a waste
if time if it is s crank speed knock. My guess is a sloppy tolerance rod
bearing letting the piston slap the ridge on the head. At one point it was
quite at idle and rapping at about 1500. Classic case of this problem where
below a certain piston speed the oil film in the bearing can contain it
from over excurding. An exhaust leak is 1/2 engine speed as well so watch
the balancer speed up front compared to the noise. IF it is a 1/2 speed
knock ( you hope) don't rule out the fuel pump arm ticking. At starup it
seems your hi idle cam is not working or a bit underadjusted.
>
>
>
> I hear a lifter noise.
> Simple check with a long screwdriver, plastic end at your ear and move
down from front to back on each side will help isolate.
> Lower noise can be checked as well, just not as easy.
>
> Lifters out of adjustment can account for the vibration also.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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The Greatfruit: 1973, 26', Canyon Lands or Painted Desert, in Pineapple Yellow
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ominous noises two: still ticking [message #233170 is a reply to message #232966] |
Sun, 15 December 2013 19:48 |
KevinZ
Messages: 20
Registered: November 2013
Location: Oswego NY
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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I could see on the last video, it looks like the spark plug wire on the front plug is on the exhaust manifold... all should be routed away from heat and moving parts. That looks and sounds like the easiest an cost effective start. The ticking noise can be the wire arching (snapping)and would explain the engine roughness too. This happens under load, acceleration. Time for new ones maybe???
KZ
Oswego, NY
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ominous noises two: still ticking [message #233181 is a reply to message #233170] |
Sun, 15 December 2013 20:54 |
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fitzmorrispr
Messages: 137
Registered: February 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Karma: 0
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Well, it doesn't sound like arcing at all, and the wires seem to be fairly
new.
I only get roughness when the engine hasn't warmed up, or when a plug is
disconnected. I only really get the noise when the engine is warmed up, all
plugs connected. I noticed the way the wires were laying too, but am not
sure how I'll reroute them.
On Dec 15, 2013 5:48 PM, "Kevin Zirbel" <kevin.zirbel@oswego.edu> wrote:
>
>
> I could see on the last video, it looks like the spark plug wire on the
> front plug is on the exhaust manifold... all should be routed away from
> heat and moving parts. That looks and sounds like the easiest an cost
> effective start. The ticking noise can be the wire arching (snapping)and
> would explain the engine roughness too. This happens under load,
> acceleration. Time for new ones maybe???
> --
> KZ
>
> Oswego, NY
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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The Greatfruit: 1973, 26', Canyon Lands or Painted Desert, in Pineapple Yellow
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ominous noises two: still ticking [message #233191 is a reply to message #233151] |
Sun, 15 December 2013 23:47 |
mickeysss
Messages: 1476
Registered: January 2012
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These are easy to fix better these????
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 15, 2013, at 3:27 PM, Patrick Fitzmorris <fitzmorrispr@gmail.com> wrote:
> Gee mickey, I hope not.
>
> Kevin, I've had that suggested a couple of times, and was planning on doing
> that next time I fiddled with it, but...
>
> I think I might not need to. See, I think ive found something:
>
> https://plus.google.com/117951773290007698116/posts/aYxyFwMxN5v
>
> Second video is the one that matters
> can be a bent push rod or broken valve spring. Maybe. but would be more
> than a tink. more like a cling tink ping plunking sound.
>
> Mickey anaheim ca. 77 pa[m beach :-)
>
>
> On Dec 13, 2013, at 3:51 PM, Kevin Zirbel wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> JohnL455 wrote on Thu, 12 December 2013 20:18
>>> Sounds like a crank speed knock. Taking off the vslve cover is a waste
> if time if it is s crank speed knock. My guess is a sloppy tolerance rod
> bearing letting the piston slap the ridge on the head. At one point it was
> quite at idle and rapping at about 1500. Classic case of this problem where
> below a certain piston speed the oil film in the bearing can contain it
> from over excurding. An exhaust leak is 1/2 engine speed as well so watch
> the balancer speed up front compared to the noise. IF it is a 1/2 speed
> knock ( you hope) don't rule out the fuel pump arm ticking. At starup it
> seems your hi idle cam is not working or a bit underadjusted.
>>
>>
>>
>> I hear a lifter noise.
>> Simple check with a long screwdriver, plastic end at your ear and move
> down from front to back on each side will help isolate.
>> Lower noise can be checked as well, just not as easy.
>>
>> Lifters out of adjustment can account for the vibration also.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ominous noises two: still ticking [message #233225 is a reply to message #233191] |
Mon, 16 December 2013 15:30 |
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fitzmorrispr
Messages: 137
Registered: February 2013
Location: Los Angeles
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Mickey: Huh?
I'll reposition the wires, but they're not the problem. At least, I am
pretty sure they're not. What I know is that cylinder 8 is the source of
the noises, and that the noises go away when cylinder 8 is prevented from
firing.
I also know that it idles a little rough cold, or when cylinder 8 is
disconnected, but that last is obvious, and the first unrelated.
I still think it's a lifter, or maybe a weak spring, but I don't know yet.
On Dec 15, 2013 9:48 PM, "michael mitchell" <mickeysss@me.com> wrote:
> These are easy to fix better these????
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 15, 2013, at 3:27 PM, Patrick Fitzmorris <fitzmorrispr@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Gee mickey, I hope not.
> >
> > Kevin, I've had that suggested a couple of times, and was planning on
> doing
> > that next time I fiddled with it, but...
> >
> > I think I might not need to. See, I think ive found something:
> >
> > https://plus.google.com/117951773290007698116/posts/aYxyFwMxN5v
> >
> > Second video is the one that matters
> > can be a bent push rod or broken valve spring. Maybe. but would be more
> > than a tink. more like a cling tink ping plunking sound.
> >
> > Mickey anaheim ca. 77 pa[m beach :-)
> >
> >
> > On Dec 13, 2013, at 3:51 PM, Kevin Zirbel wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> JohnL455 wrote on Thu, 12 December 2013 20:18
> >>> Sounds like a crank speed knock. Taking off the vslve cover is a waste
> > if time if it is s crank speed knock. My guess is a sloppy tolerance rod
> > bearing letting the piston slap the ridge on the head. At one point it
> was
> > quite at idle and rapping at about 1500. Classic case of this problem
> where
> > below a certain piston speed the oil film in the bearing can contain it
> > from over excurding. An exhaust leak is 1/2 engine speed as well so watch
> > the balancer speed up front compared to the noise. IF it is a 1/2 speed
> > knock ( you hope) don't rule out the fuel pump arm ticking. At starup it
> > seems your hi idle cam is not working or a bit underadjusted.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I hear a lifter noise.
> >> Simple check with a long screwdriver, plastic end at your ear and move
> > down from front to back on each side will help isolate.
> >> Lower noise can be checked as well, just not as easy.
> >>
> >> Lifters out of adjustment can account for the vibration also.
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> GMCnet mailing list
> >> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ominous noises two: still ticking [message #233286 is a reply to message #233225] |
Mon, 16 December 2013 22:41 |
Bullitthead
Messages: 1411
Registered: November 2013
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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"What I know is that cylinder 8 is the source of
the noises, and that the noises go away when cylinder 8 is prevented from
firing."
And you also said it only did it when cold.
Exhaust leak would cause those exact symptoms...A small vacuum hose about 3 ft long in your ear and moving the other end around the exhaust ports can confirm it for you. Works like a stethoscope for all kinds of air leaks, and then keep it onboard for other obvious uses.
Terry Kelpien
ASE Master Technician
73 Glacier 260
Smithfield, Va.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ominous noises two: still ticking [message #233292 is a reply to message #233286] |
Tue, 17 December 2013 00:37 |
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fitzmorrispr
Messages: 137
Registered: February 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Did I say that?
Oops.
The noise that worries me only starts after the engine finishes the initial
warmup, and the choke opens, etc.
(I thought I described that, but I don't always manage to say what I mean.)
There is a similar, though quieter noise that happens only when cold, and
only when cold does it idle rough. I'll poke around for exhaust leaks too,
but my gut says the worrisome sound is something else.
On Dec 16, 2013 8:41 PM, "Terry" <mrbullitt@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
> "What I know is that cylinder 8 is the source of
> the noises, and that the noises go away when cylinder 8 is prevented from
> firing."
> And you also said it only did it when cold.
>
> Exhaust leak would cause those exact symptoms...A small vacuum hose about
> 3 ft long in your ear and moving the other end around the exhaust ports can
> confirm it for you. Works like a stethoscope for all kinds of air leaks,
> and then keep it onboard for other obvious uses.
> --
> Terry Kelpien
> 73 Glacier 260
> Smithfield, Va.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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