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| [GMCnet] Winterizing your GMC [message #232736] |
Mon, 09 December 2013 15:55  |
Emery Stora
Messages: 959
Registered: January 2011
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We have had several email lately about the use of RV antifreeze to winterize our motorhomes.
I just noticed that GM issued a Service Bulletin 73-IM-6 Group 24-MI6-4 dated 12/14/73.
This bulletin instructs dealers to tell their customers to winterize by using RV antifreeze. They say to pour 5 gallons into the fresh water tank and pump it through all the lines. Then pour a small amount into the traps.
Since that time the water tank to pump bypass was developed to allow one to not put antifreeze into the water tank but simply pump from a 1 galloon jug into the lines. This saves 4 gallons. 1 gallon is enough to use for the lines and the traps.
I have the Dealer Service and Recall manual that I purchased from GM back in 1981 when I bought my 77 Kingsley. If anyone needs information from it let me know.
Emery Stora
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winterizing your GMC [message #232752 is a reply to message #232736] |
Mon, 09 December 2013 16:54  |
Bob S.
Messages: 143
Registered: October 2012
Location: Rapid City, SD
Karma: 2
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I have winterized my coach twice so far this year. I installed the bypass for the fresh water and the hot water heater. Took me less than 5 minutes to get it un-winterized and then about 10 minutes to redo it when our trip was over. It's a breeze with the bypass. Its a good thing I got it done. Two days after we got home, the temp dropped to below zero and stayed there for over 4 days. Today is the first day above zero and its a balmy 13 degrees.
Bob and Pam Schilling
Rapid City, SD
"78 Royale
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winterizing your GMC [message #232766 is a reply to message #232746] |
Mon, 09 December 2013 19:08 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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| Jim Galbavy wrote on Mon, 09 December 2013 14:37 |
... I could pump the antifreeze out in a matter of minutes if I wanted to use the coach in the winter for trips. Stored it water jugs and pumped/reused it thru the system when I returned the coach to storage. EZ PeZ.
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Jugs? As in more than one?
Between the water heater by-pass and pump converter kit, I can winterize the rear bath Birchaven with 1/2 gallon of anti freeze. (But normally use closer to a full gallon.)
These are examples of what to use:
Pump Converter Kit:
<http://www.camperpartsworld.com/Pump-Converter-Winterizing-Kit.html>
By-Pass Kit:
<http://www.camperpartsworld.com/By-Pass-Kits.html>
Blow out plug:
<http://www.camperpartsworld.com/Blow-Out-Plug.html>
First empty the water tank,
then blow out as much water as you can. I stick an old valve stem in the hose of the Pump Converter Kit and blow it out. Also blow out from the city water connection (If you still have one.) Air pressure also lets you empty the water heater quicker. Remember the stool and shower hose!
After you get out as much water as you can, close the bypass and empty waste tanks.
THEN pump in enough pink stuff in to get it out of each and every tap. It only takes about 1/2 a gallon. (But doesn't hurt to pump a bit more.) Let it sit a soak into the odd spots that might have water in them. (Not long to over night.)
Hook back up the pressurized air, and blow out some of the pink stuff into the drain traps. Then capture the rest for reuse.
I use some of the "captured" pink stuff (about a quart) and use it to winterize the macerator. On my rear bath I have a way to pour it in to just the macerator and run it long enough to get into the discharge hose. Any of the pink stuff left goes back in the jug. (As in one.)
Done.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winterizing your GMC [message #232846 is a reply to message #232766] |
Tue, 10 December 2013 17:11 |
rjw
Messages: 697
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 4
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| Mike Miller wrote on Mon, 09 December 2013 20:08 |
Between the water heater by-pass and pump converter kit, I can winterize the rear bath Birchaven with 1/2 gallon of anti freeze. (But normally use closer to a full gallon.)
I use some of the "captured" pink stuff (about a quart) and use it to winterize the macerator. On my rear bath I have a way to pour it in to just the macerator and run it long enough to get into the discharge hose. Any of the pink stuff left goes back in the jug. (As in one.)
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I hope you are not saying that you reuse the pink stuff pumped out of the macerater to go and winterize the drinking water part of the plumbing. That seems kind of gross. The pink stuff I pump out of my macerator gets tossed.
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com
Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winterizing your GMC [message #232876 is a reply to message #232846] |
Wed, 11 December 2013 07:33 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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See what you should have done is forget draining the tanks, fill them and drive down here, it was in the 80's last weekend! Don't throw stuff at me, I'm just sayn... Yea, that's not faie, I'm sorry but you can rake me when they open the blast furnace door next summer!
Jim Bounds
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On Tuesday, December 10, 2013 6:11 PM, RJW <mygmc@palmbeachgmc.com> wrote:
Mike Miller wrote on Mon, 09 December 2013 20:08
> Between the water heater by-pass and pump converter kit, I can winterize the rear bath Birchaven with 1/2 gallon of anti freeze. (But normally use closer to a full gallon.)
>
> I use some of the "captured" pink stuff (about a quart) and use it to winterize the macerator. On my rear bath I have a way to pour it in to just the macerator and run it long enough to get into the discharge hose. Any of the pink stuff left goes back in the jug. (As in one.)
I hope you are not saying that you reuse the pink stuff pumped out of the macerater to go and winterize the drinking water part of the plumbing. That seems kind of gross. The pink stuff I pump out of my macerator gets tossed.
--
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winterizing your GMC [message #232891 is a reply to message #232846] |
Wed, 11 December 2013 10:53 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| rjw wrote on Tue, 10 December 2013 15:11 |
I hope you are not saying that you reuse the pink stuff pumped out of the macerater to go and winterize the drinking water part of the plumbing. That seems kind of gross. The pink stuff I pump out of my macerator gets tossed.
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That would be "kind of gross."
"... Any of the pink stuff _left_ goes back in the jug. (As in one.)"
If I start with a half gallon, there isn't much left, so it all goes into the macerator. If I start with a gallon, I have about 1/2 gallon or so LEFT OVER after pouring some in the macerator. The left over stuff is mixed pink and some water.... all foamed up from being blown from the system. THAT is what goes back in the jug. Granted, it does have a higher freezing point than straight pink but it can be useful as my coaches do not normally see THAT cold of weather.
When I win that Mega-Millons on Friday, I'll follow JimB's advice and they'll never need winterizing again!
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winterizing your GMC [message #232892 is a reply to message #232876] |
Wed, 11 December 2013 11:16 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| Jim Bounds wrote on Wed, 11 December 2013 07:33 |
See what you should have done is forget draining the tanks, fill them and drive down here, it was in the 80's last weekend! Don't throw stuff at me, I'm just sayn... Yea, that's not faie, I'm sorry but you can rake me when they open the blast furnace door next summer!
Jim Bounds
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When does Hurricane season start?
I want to be out of town before then.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winterizing your GMC [message #232893 is a reply to message #232892] |
Wed, 11 December 2013 11:25 |
Kingsley Coach
Messages: 2691
Registered: March 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Karma: -34
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Ken
If I could manage a hurricane, I'd be leaving before the temp and the
humidity both hit the high 90's
On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> Jim Bounds wrote on Wed, 11 December 2013 07:33
> > See what you should have done is forget draining the tanks, fill them
> and drive down here, it was in the 80's last weekend! Don't throw stuff at
> me, I'm just sayn... Yea, that's not faie, I'm sorry but you can rake me
> when they open the blast furnace door next summer!
> >
> > Jim Bounds
> > ----------------------
>
> When does Hurricane season start?
> I want to be out of town before then.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
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--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winterizing your GMC [message #232894 is a reply to message #232893] |
Wed, 11 December 2013 11:46 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| Kingsley Coach wrote on Wed, 11 December 2013 11:25 |
Ken
If I could manage a hurricane, I'd be leaving before the temp and the
humidity both hit the high 90's
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
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In a previous life, I use to escort / accompany clients visiting the IBM Information Network Control Center in Tampa. I did one about every 2 months. Great place to visit in the winter, terrible place in the summer.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winterizing your GMC [message #232991 is a reply to message #232736] |
Thu, 12 December 2013 23:22 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Emery,
I did something different this year. When I finished winterizing I ran the macerator to flush the pink stuff through it and I captured it in a 1 gallon bucket. I ended up with about 2" of it in the plastic bucket.
I just left the bucket under the coach macerator drain. Today I was out there after two nights of below zero weather and looked in the bucket. The inside temperature at the time was 22 degrees. What I found was 2" of pink RV antifreeze in the bottom with a solid ice crust on top of it. The water that had been flushed out of the macerator did NOT mix with the RV antifreeze or it settled out again while sitting in the bucket.
Any comments Emery?
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winterizing your GMC [message #232997 is a reply to message #232994] |
Fri, 13 December 2013 07:10 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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It does not say what it is. I'm sure it is the ethyl alcohol stuff.
| Emery Stora wrote on Fri, 13 December 2013 01:26 |
Was your "pink stuff" a propylene glycol or an ethyl alcohol mix?
Emery Stora
On Dec 12, 2013, at 10:22 PM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> Emery,
>
> I did something different this year. When I finished winterizing I ran the macerator to flush the pink stuff through it and I captured it in a 1 gallon bucket. I ended up with about 2" of it in the plastic bucket.
>
> I just left the bucket under the coach macerator drain. Today I was out there after two nights of below zero weather and looked in the bucket. The inside temperature at the time was 22 degrees. What I found was 2" of pink RV antifreeze in the bottom with a solid ice crust on top of it. The water that had been flushed out of the macerator did NOT mix with the RV antifreeze or it settled out again while sitting in the bucket.
>
> Any comments Emery?
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
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Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winterizing your GMC [message #233003 is a reply to message #232997] |
Fri, 13 December 2013 11:05 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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If had assumed that it would be the ethyl alcohol rather than the propylene glycol. This is another reason to use propylene glycol based RV antifreeze rather than the cheaper ethyl alcohol based RV antifreeze. A solution of it will not separate with part of it freezing.
What you are observing is often called Freeze Distillation, more correctly known as "fractional freezing". This will not happen with propylene glycol.
This is based on alcohol's low freezing point of -114 degrees C compared with 0 degrees for water. However, it's not a simple case of all the water freezing at 0 leaving pure alcohol. What happens is that the material that freezes contains relatively less alcohol, and the liquid that remains contains relatively more.
It's not possible to obtain the same high alcohol concentration with fractional freezing in a domestic freezer as you could with distillation. However, it is a simple way to increase the concentration somewhat.
Applejack is traditionally produced by fractional freezing.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
> It does not say what it is. I'm sure it is the ethyl alcohol stuff.
>
> Emery Stora wrote on Fri, 13 December 2013 01:26
>> Was your "pink stuff" a propylene glycol or an ethyl alcohol mix?
>>
>> Emery Stora
>>
>> On Dec 12, 2013, at 10:22 PM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Emery,
>>>
>>> I did something different this year. When I finished winterizing I ran the macerator to flush the pink stuff through it and I captured it in a 1 gallon bucket. I ended up with about 2" of it in the plastic bucket.
>>>
>>> I just left the bucket under the coach macerator drain. Today I was out there after two nights of below zero weather and looked in the bucket. The inside temperature at the time was 22 degrees. What I found was 2" of pink RV antifreeze in the bottom with a solid ice crust on top of it. The water that had been flushed out of the macerator did NOT mix with the RV antifreeze or it settled out again while sitting in the bucket.
>>>
>>> Any comments Emery?
>>> --
>>> Ken Burton - N9KB
>>> 76 Palm Beach
>>> Hebron, Indiana
>
>
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
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| Re: [GMCnet] Winterizing your GMC [message #233006 is a reply to message #233003] |
Fri, 13 December 2013 12:12 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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This is an interesting phenomenon. Since all of the separated stuff floated to the top and froze, I'm beginning to wonder what would happen if this were in a fresh water line, or a drain trap, or the macerator pump. It appears that the weaker mixture could all accumulate at a highest point in the system, and then freeze, and break things.
I blew out all of the fresh water lines in the coach before adding the RV antifreeze. I did not blow out the drain traps and macerator. There was still water in them when I added the antifreeze. I just ran the RV antifreeze through them to flush them out. This means that the resulting water content was much higher after it passed through them and ended up in the bucket.
This observation of ice in the bucket is a good reason for people to blow out the system to remove as much water as possible before adding this type of antifreeze.
I'm going to take a sealed bottle of this stuff out there and see what happens the next time it gets down to 0 degrees F. I expect it will not develop a frozen crust on the top of the bottle.
Thanks Emery
| emerystora wrote on Fri, 13 December 2013 11:05 |
If had assumed that it would be the ethyl alcohol rather than the propylene glycol. This is another reason to use propylene glycol based RV antifreeze rather than the cheaper ethyl alcohol based RV antifreeze. A solution of it will not separate with part of it freezing.
What you are observing is often called Freeze Distillation, more correctly known as "fractional freezing". This will not happen with propylene glycol.
This is based on alcohol's low freezing point of -114 degrees C compared with 0 degrees for water. However, it's not a simple case of all the water freezing at 0 leaving pure alcohol. What happens is that the material that freezes contains relatively less alcohol, and the liquid that remains contains relatively more.
It's not possible to obtain the same high alcohol concentration with fractional freezing in a domestic freezer as you could with distillation. However, it is a simple way to increase the concentration somewhat.
Applejack is traditionally produced by fractional freezing.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
> It does not say what it is. I'm sure it is the ethyl alcohol stuff.
>
> Emery Stora wrote on Fri, 13 December 2013 01:26
>> Was your "pink stuff" a propylene glycol or an ethyl alcohol mix?
>>
>> Emery Stora
>>
>> On Dec 12, 2013, at 10:22 PM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Emery,
>>>
>>> I did something different this year. When I finished winterizing I ran the macerator to flush the pink stuff through it and I captured it in a 1 gallon bucket. I ended up with about 2" of it in the plastic bucket.
>>>
>>> I just left the bucket under the coach macerator drain. Today I was out there after two nights of below zero weather and looked in the bucket. The inside temperature at the time was 22 degrees. What I found was 2" of pink RV antifreeze in the bottom with a solid ice crust on top of it. The water that had been flushed out of the macerator did NOT mix with the RV antifreeze or it settled out again while sitting in the bucket.
>>>
>>> Any comments Emery?
>>> --
>>> Ken Burton - N9KB
>>> 76 Palm Beach
>>> Hebron, Indiana
>
>
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
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Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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