Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Separate batteries for the Onan? (I know it was originally setup that way.)
| Separate batteries for the Onan? [message #231087] |
Sun, 24 November 2013 15:59  |
Otterwan
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I was just given 2 new small deep cycle batteries, and was considering setting them up (maybe just one of them) as the starting battery for the Onan, and then having the coach starting battery and house batteries up front. Just wondering if anyone is running this system, and if so how it working for them.
1977 Birchaven, Lynnwood WA - "We may not be able to stop all evil in the world, but I know that how we treat one another is entirely up to us."
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| Re: Separate batteries for the Onan? [message #231103 is a reply to message #231099] |
Sun, 24 November 2013 17:39  |
Otterwan
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| JohnL455 wrote on Sun, 24 November 2013 15:09 |
And why would you want a deep cycle battery as a crank battery for the Onan?
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Small size, high cranking amps, and it was free.
Mainly the last one ;o)
1977 Birchaven, Lynnwood WA - "We may not be able to stop all evil in the world, but I know that how we treat one another is entirely up to us."
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| Re: [GMCnet] Separate batteries for the Onan? [message #231120 is a reply to message #231103] |
Sun, 24 November 2013 19:26 |
Jim Miller
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Registered: March 2008
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On Nov 24, 2013, at 6:39 PM, David Orders wrote:
>> And why would you want a deep cycle battery as a crank battery for the Onan?
Setting aside a "deep" vs "starting" battery argument in this topic, I will say that I have given some serious thought to implementing a smallish third battery that would be dedicated to the Onan as was the case in early GMCs.
It is my opinion that an Onan with its own battery is a last defense against being marooned in a dead house-battery/dead engine-battery situation. I have come very close to this experience after a few days of dry-camping at a nearby racetrack. Between the dash stereo running down the engine battery and the fridge, furnace and other loads running down the house batteries, I almost was dead in the water when it came time to leave. And yes, I had monitored the house battery situation closely throughout the weekend and done a few short Onan runs to top off. What I did not know at the time is that over the previous year my Progressive Dynamics wonder-box had boiled most of the electrolyte out of two newish Trojan batteries and therefore they had very little stamina.
A dedicated-to-Onan battery would have been nice to have in place that weekend.
--Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza II
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH
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Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza II
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH
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| Re: [GMCnet] Separate batteries for the Onan? [message #231125 is a reply to message #231120] |
Sun, 24 November 2013 20:22 |
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WD0AFQ
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Location: Dexter, Mo.
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| Jim Miller wrote on Sun, 24 November 2013 19:26 |
On Nov 24, 2013, at 6:39 PM, David Orders wrote:
>> And why would you want a deep cycle battery as a crank battery for the Onan?
Setting aside a "deep" vs "starting" battery argument in this topic, I will say that I have given some serious thought to implementing a smallish third battery that would be dedicated to the Onan as was the case in early GMCs.
It is my opinion that an Onan with its own battery is a last defense against being marooned in a dead house-battery/dead engine-battery situation. I have come very close to this experience after a few days of dry-camping at a nearby racetrack. Between the dash stereo running down the engine battery and the fridge, furnace and other loads running down the house batteries, I almost was dead in the water when it came time to leave. And yes, I had monitored the house battery situation closely throughout the weekend and done a few short Onan runs to top off. What I did not know at the time is that over the previous year my Progressive Dynamics wonder-box had boiled most of the electrolyte out of two newish Trojan batteries and therefore they had very little stamina.
A dedicated-to-Onan battery would have been nice to have in place that weekend.
--Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza II
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH
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Jim, I run a 25.00 garden tractor battery with a combiner on it. Works great and takes up no room. Ran a scooter battery for a while but it was a tad weak, in my opinion. I have the primer for the fuel pump so the Onan cranks over once and starts. Has electronic ignition also.
Dan
3 In Stainless Exhaust Headers
One Ton All Discs/Reaction Arm
355 FD/Quad Bag/Alum Radiator Manny Tran/New eng.
Holley EFI/10 Tire Air Monitoring System
Solarized Coach/Upgraded Windows
Satelite TV/On Demand Hot Water/3Way Refer
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| Re: Separate batteries for the Onan? [message #231132 is a reply to message #231099] |
Sun, 24 November 2013 21:13 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
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| JohnL455 wrote on Sun, 24 November 2013 16:09 |
And why would you want a deep cycle battery as a crank battery for the Onan?
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On later coaches, isn't the onan started from the house side of the battery circuit? If so, almost all Onans are started by deap cycle batteries.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: Separate batteries for the Onan? [message #231142 is a reply to message #231132] |
Sun, 24 November 2013 22:07 |
Otterwan
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| Bob de Kruyff wrote on Sun, 24 November 2013 19:13 |
| JohnL455 wrote on Sun, 24 November 2013 16:09 |
And why would you want a deep cycle battery as a crank battery for the Onan?
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On later coaches, isn't the onan started from the house side of the battery circuit? If so, almost all Onans are started by deap cycle batteries.
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True, but as I said, the main reason I would use these batteries is that they were free and are new. If I were going to buy a battery for such a system, I would not necessarily choose a deep cycle battery.
1977 Birchaven, Lynnwood WA - "We may not be able to stop all evil in the world, but I know that how we treat one another is entirely up to us."
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| Re: Separate batteries for the Onan? [message #231144 is a reply to message #231142] |
Sun, 24 November 2013 22:15 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
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| Otterwan wrote on Sun, 24 November 2013 21:07 |
| Bob de Kruyff wrote on Sun, 24 November 2013 19:13 |
| JohnL455 wrote on Sun, 24 November 2013 16:09 |
And why would you want a deep cycle battery as a crank battery for the Onan?
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On later coaches, isn't the onan started from the house side of the battery circuit? If so, almost all Onans are started by deap cycle batteries.
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True, but as I said, the main reason I would use these batteries is that they were free and are new. If I were going to buy a battery for such a system, I would not necessarily choose a deep cycle battery.
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I'm agreeing with you--sometimes the quotes run together and the previous post gets misunderstood as the last quote. Oh well.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: Separate batteries for the Onan? [message #231145 is a reply to message #231144] |
Sun, 24 November 2013 22:17 |
Otterwan
Messages: 946
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And I was agreeing with you. "Quote-ception" seems to have got us both!
1977 Birchaven, Lynnwood WA - "We may not be able to stop all evil in the world, but I know that how we treat one another is entirely up to us."
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| Re: [GMCnet] Separate batteries for the Onan? [message #231148 is a reply to message #231120] |
Mon, 25 November 2013 00:03 |
sgltrac
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Registered: April 2011
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If you switch the stereo to the house system you will not need to be as worried about the chassis battery. And as has been mentioned the Onan battery and house are one in the same ( on royales ). The Onan does not take much to crank and fire. I've had my house / Onan deep cycle pretty low and it will still kick the Onan.
Todd Sullivan
Sully
77 royale
Seattle
> On Nov 24, 2013, at 5:26 PM, Jim Miller <gmcnet@jcmco.com> wrote:
>
> On Nov 24, 2013, at 6:39 PM, David Orders wrote:
>
>>> And why would you want a deep cycle battery as a crank battery for the Onan?
>
>
> Setting aside a "deep" vs "starting" battery argument in this topic, I will say that I have given some serious thought to implementing a smallish third battery that would be dedicated to the Onan as was the case in early GMCs.
>
> It is my opinion that an Onan with its own battery is a last defense against being marooned in a dead house-battery/dead engine-battery situation. I have come very close to this experience after a few days of dry-camping at a nearby racetrack. Between the dash stereo running down the engine battery and the fridge, furnace and other loads running down the house batteries, I almost was dead in the water when it came time to leave. And yes, I had monitored the house battery situation closely throughout the weekend and done a few short Onan runs to top off. What I did not know at the time is that over the previous year my Progressive Dynamics wonder-box had boiled most of the electrolyte out of two newish Trojan batteries and therefore they had very little stamina.
>
> A dedicated-to-Onan battery would have been nice to have in place that weekend.
>
> --Jim Miller
> 1977 Eleganza II
> 1977 Royale
> Hamilton, OH
>
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: Separate batteries for the Onan? [message #231153 is a reply to message #231087] |
Mon, 25 November 2013 00:44 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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How are you going to keep the "new" Onan battery charged?
Jim Miller's lifeline idea will not work if the battery is dead. Do not say with the Onan.
You probably will not use it that much so when you need it, the battery will probably will be dead. An adding a combiner would make sense. Now the added battery is not free when you add the cost of the combiner.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Separate batteries for the Onan? [message #231168 is a reply to message #231153] |
Mon, 25 November 2013 06:55 |
Jim Miller
Messages: 501
Registered: March 2008
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On Nov 25, 2013, at 1:44 AM, Ken Burton wrote:
> How are you going to keep the "new" Onan battery charged?
The Onan's (existing) flywheel alternator feeds an (existing) voltage regulator to re-charge the battery after starting.
There are many inexpensive battery maintainers that can mount right in the compartment to keep it charged off 120V mains during non-use of the RV - the same mains that power a buzzbox/PD that keeps the house batteries up.
I never said it was a free solution.
--Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza II
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH
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Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza II
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH
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| Re: [GMCnet] Separate batteries for the Onan? [message #231169 is a reply to message #231168] |
Mon, 25 November 2013 07:29 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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My point was to get him to think about how he was going to keep it charged. I know there are several solutions but as infrequently as I use my Onan, the flywheel wheel alternator is not really a good solution. I used mt Onan once last year and I do not remember using it at all the previous year.
I suggest he either use a battery maintainer as you suggested or a combiner off of the house battery system.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Separate batteries for the Onan? [message #231176 is a reply to message #231087] |
Mon, 25 November 2013 09:12 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
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Be careful with some of the little 120v maintainers. If you leave them connected to the battery with no AC, they are battery drainers. The long slow type of drain that really hurts the battery.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Separate batteries for the Onan? [message #231188 is a reply to message #231178] |
Mon, 25 November 2013 10:16 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| WD0AFQ wrote on Mon, 25 November 2013 09:15 |
| Jim Galbavy wrote on Mon, 25 November 2013 08:58 |
Jim, I agree with you. When my engine battery took a dump while on the road in South Carolina, I stopped at an auto electric shop and the owner told me to replace the generator battery with the same battery that I used for the engine. That way I had last stand if I ever needed it to start the engine. That said I keep the generator battery charged by starting and running the generator under load at least once a month for 30 minutes. I want that generator to start and run when I need it. If you don't you'll have problems when you do need it.
jim galbavy
'73 x-CL ANNIE
Lake Mary, FL
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So, most won't charge like mine? I have my PD hooked to the Onan, plus it charges from the engine alternator and solar.
Dan
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Dan, I think you have a combiner connecting the Onan battery to the house system to accomplish all of those charging options.
Am I correct?
Stay warm down there.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Separate batteries for the Onan? [message #231191 is a reply to message #231087] |
Mon, 25 November 2013 10:25 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
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We actually use the Onan a lot. We put a bunch of hours on it last summer at a hot (temperature) music festival. The big surprise was that the Onan's battery went dead. The POS Presolite rectifier/regulator that has disappointed me on all my Gravely's with Kohler engine managed to disappoint me again. I fortunately had a convenient place to cross-connect to the the house bank and enough power to get it started.
The cranking current of a BF (4kW) is about 80 amps. When I bought a new battery for that application so many years ago, I was going to get a garden tractor battery, but the least expensive was a little tiny car battery, so that is what is still there.
Yes, I am paranoid, old and paranoid. So, when I added a new fuse panel for the house, I moved the stereo to that. From doing the boat stuff that I do, I am very careful about what can kill who. The last thing I will do is put a casual load on the main engine starting battery. Everything else can be considered discretionary and it won't keep us from getting home.
Now, if I could figure out how to crank start the Onan, that would be the ultimate redundancy. Park in the book with propping up a plane.
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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