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| watertemp gauge [message #230651] |
Thu, 21 November 2013 09:56  |
appie
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Registered: April 2013
Location: denmark
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I installed a new watertemp gauge witch is showing 60-70 Celcius when warm
Now I figured that can't be right and got myselv a new sender with 1/2" npt to fit into the Edelbrock intake. Suprise! it does not seem to fit the thread?
Now I tried to do it quick as coolingliquide spils when the sender is out and I did not want to ruine the intake.
Question Could the thread be other the NPT?
Actually at my invoice it says NPTF, but I do not know wether that is different?
Appie
eleganza 76 "Olga" now sadly sold
6 wheel discbrake
Quadrabags
Springfield stage 2 462 olds
Manny tranny
( pictures at http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6489-olga.html
Fulltiming in Europe july 2014 til july 2016
Denmark
[Updated on: Thu, 21 November 2013 10:04] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: watertemp gauge [message #230654 is a reply to message #230651] |
Thu, 21 November 2013 10:16  |
Otterwan
Messages: 946
Registered: July 2013
Location: Lynnwood (north of Seattl...
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They are the same thread. NPTF is designed to install without sealant (teflon tape) and is sometimes called "dry seal thread". They should both hand thread partway into the hole, but the NPTF with then get a little sticky, similar to a locknut on a bolt.
1977 Birchaven, Lynnwood WA - "We may not be able to stop all evil in the world, but I know that how we treat one another is entirely up to us."
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| Re: watertemp gauge [message #230657 is a reply to message #230654] |
Thu, 21 November 2013 10:25 |
appie
Messages: 902
Registered: April 2013
Location: denmark
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Thanks for that quick reply Yes I could turn it by hand a single revolution Just felt like wrong thread
I am carefull with all these new us threads, better save then sorry!
I'll just turn it in then with a socket
Thanks again
Appie
eleganza 76 "Olga" now sadly sold
6 wheel discbrake
Quadrabags
Springfield stage 2 462 olds
Manny tranny
( pictures at http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6489-olga.html
Fulltiming in Europe july 2014 til july 2016
Denmark
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| Re: watertemp gauge [message #230666 is a reply to message #230657] |
Thu, 21 November 2013 11:14 |
Otterwan
Messages: 946
Registered: July 2013
Location: Lynnwood (north of Seattl...
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| appie wrote on Thu, 21 November 2013 08:25 |
Thanks for that quick reply Yes I could turn it by hand a single revolution Just felt like wrong thread
I am carefull with all these new us threads, better save then sorry!
I'll just turn it in then with a socket
Thanks again
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Yes, be very careful. You don't know that the manifold you have is intended for dry thread, and there is always the chance that the threads are bad. With a socket, there shouldn't be much resistance for the first several turns. Take it slow.
1977 Birchaven, Lynnwood WA - "We may not be able to stop all evil in the world, but I know that how we treat one another is entirely up to us."
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| Re: watertemp gauge [message #230671 is a reply to message #230666] |
Thu, 21 November 2013 11:30 |
appie
Messages: 902
Registered: April 2013
Location: denmark
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Well That is what my question was about
I tried the edelbrock website but could not find any info there
It´s quite a new intake dont expect anything wrong with it
WILL THE 1/2" NPTF SENDER FIT THE THE EDELBROCK INTAKE ?
Appie
eleganza 76 "Olga" now sadly sold
6 wheel discbrake
Quadrabags
Springfield stage 2 462 olds
Manny tranny
( pictures at http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6489-olga.html
Fulltiming in Europe july 2014 til july 2016
Denmark
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| Re: watertemp gauge [message #230676 is a reply to message #230671] |
Thu, 21 November 2013 12:00 |
Otterwan
Messages: 946
Registered: July 2013
Location: Lynnwood (north of Seattl...
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Here's some more information:
http://www.cutting-tool-supply.com/TechTips/Tapping/NPTvsNPTF/NPTVsNPTF.htm
"NPT Vs. NPTF Taper Pipe Threads
The two most common taper pipe threads used in the United States are NPT and NPTF. Applications range from electrical conduits and hand railings to high-pressure pipe lines that carry gas or caustic fluids. NPT threads are for mechanical or low-pressure air or fluid applications and require the use of sealing compounds like Teflon tape, to provide the seal. When the application is more critical, and the sealing compound may fail due to high heat or pressure, NPTF Dryseal threads are used. This mechanical seal is produced by the mating and slight crushing of the threads when a wrench is applied to tighten the fittings.
Visually, both threads appear to be identical. Both have a ¾” taper over one foot of length. Both have the same pitch diameter at the top of the hole of internal threads or end of the pipe on external threads, and both have the same thread lengths or depths. However, there is a subtle difference in the thread form that differentiates the two. The major and minor diameters of both threads differ slightly. With NPT threads, after a wrench is applied, slight spaces at the major and minor diameters may exist that would allow the assembly to leak and therefore a sealing compound is used to fill any gaps. On the other hand, NPTF threads are designed to ensure that sufficient crushing of the entire thread form will take place to produce a mechanical seal.
How does the difference in thread forms effect the tooling used to produce NPT and NPTF threads? Taps are available for both NPT and NPTF threads having the appropriate form to produce each type of thread. Since NPT threaded parts require sealing compounds, it is acceptable to use an NPTF tap for NPT applications. <b>However, NPT taps cannot be used for NPTF applications, as it will likely produce a thread that will leak.<b> The same is true of external threads. In most cases the tap drill is the same for both forms.
The most significant difference in the two threads is the inspection required. Since sealing compounds will be used for NPT threads, only a single plug with a step, known as an L1 plug (internal thread) or a single thin L1 ring (external) are required to check size. However, since the taper and the position of major and minor diameters are so critical to the sealing of NPTF threads, the additional threads in the assembly known as L2 and L3, and the major and minor diameters are inspected with either special plug or ring gages."
Note the part that I bolded. That sounds like NPTF in an NPT hole will not work.
However, then there is this:
http://www.firehosedirect.com/adapter-guide/
Scroll down a bit for a nice table saying what is and is not compatible. According to the chart you should be OK.
1977 Birchaven, Lynnwood WA - "We may not be able to stop all evil in the world, but I know that how we treat one another is entirely up to us."
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| Re: watertemp gauge [message #230677 is a reply to message #230676] |
Thu, 21 November 2013 12:12 |
appie
Messages: 902
Registered: April 2013
Location: denmark
Karma: 2
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thanks for that The table is quite clear
With all those threads available I have to put the question:Is the thread in the intake 1/2" NPT ?
Appie
eleganza 76 "Olga" now sadly sold
6 wheel discbrake
Quadrabags
Springfield stage 2 462 olds
Manny tranny
( pictures at http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6489-olga.html
Fulltiming in Europe july 2014 til july 2016
Denmark
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| Re: watertemp gauge [message #230697 is a reply to message #230651] |
Thu, 21 November 2013 15:40 |
appie
Messages: 902
Registered: April 2013
Location: denmark
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Thanks Robert
Just talked to Edelbrock They say it is 1/2" NPT and cannot advice to use NPTF
Doesn't make me any wiser
Appie
eleganza 76 "Olga" now sadly sold
6 wheel discbrake
Quadrabags
Springfield stage 2 462 olds
Manny tranny
( pictures at http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6489-olga.html
Fulltiming in Europe july 2014 til july 2016
Denmark
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| Re: watertemp gauge [message #230706 is a reply to message #230651] |
Thu, 21 November 2013 16:51 |
appie
Messages: 902
Registered: April 2013
Location: denmark
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reflection on using nptf male in npt female
As the intake is alu and the sender is brass, any deformation would be in the softer aluminium, turning it into nptf
Does that sound as a good idea ?
Maybe its better to find a other sender
Appie
eleganza 76 "Olga" now sadly sold
6 wheel discbrake
Quadrabags
Springfield stage 2 462 olds
Manny tranny
( pictures at http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6489-olga.html
Fulltiming in Europe july 2014 til july 2016
Denmark
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| Re: watertemp gauge [message #230723 is a reply to message #230651] |
Thu, 21 November 2013 22:47 |
Craig Lechowicz
Messages: 541
Registered: October 2006
Location: Waterford, MI
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Appie,
It's been so long, I don't even remember what I was working on. (Maybe a 1963 215 cid aluminum Buick Special engine?, later derivatives used in Rovers and TR8's). But, at any rate, I learned the hard way that if the fit between that 1/2" sender and aluminum manifold hole is too tight, it takes a lot less twisting than you might think to expand the hole in the manifold enough to crack it. In those days, I was even poorer than now, and managed to epoxy it enough to work, but the point is, you are right to be cautious. Since it is a low pressure application, a looser fit and sealer is probably the way to go. I'm not sure how easy a 1/2" NPT die would be to come up with where you live (here in the states, there are lots of them!) but if that doesn't work, a new sensor is probably cheaper than a new manifold if things look like they are going to go badly.
Craig Lechowicz
'77 Kingsley, Waterford, MI
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| Re: watertemp gauge [message #230744 is a reply to message #230651] |
Fri, 22 November 2013 02:50 |
appie
Messages: 902
Registered: April 2013
Location: denmark
Karma: 2
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Did a experiment this morning
Screwed the nptf male sender into a npt female steel pipe. Man am I happy this is not my alu intake!
I actually regrinded the thread of the sender, using a lot of force ( and lubricant) and cutting of quit some brass
Lesson learned: Nptf is not nessesarely competable with npt
Appie
eleganza 76 "Olga" now sadly sold
6 wheel discbrake
Quadrabags
Springfield stage 2 462 olds
Manny tranny
( pictures at http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6489-olga.html
Fulltiming in Europe july 2014 til july 2016
Denmark
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| Re: [GMCnet] watertemp gauge [message #230750 is a reply to message #230723] |
Fri, 22 November 2013 06:02 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
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I watched someone else teach me the same thing on a VW case.
--johnny
From: Craig Lechowicz <craig.lechowicz@sbcglobal.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 11:47 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] watertemp gauge
Appie,
It's been so long, I don't even remember what I was working on. (Maybe a 1963 215 cid aluminum Buick Special engine?, later derivatives used in Rovers and TR8's). But, at any rate, I learned the hard way that if the fit between that 1/2" sender and aluminum manifold hole is too tight, it takes a lot less twisting than you might think to expand the hole in the manifold enough to crack it. In those days, I was even poorer than now, and managed to epoxy it enough to work, but the point is, you are right to be cautious. Since it is a low pressure application, a looser fit and sealer is probably the way to go. I'm not sure how easy a 1/2" NPT die would be to come up with where you live (here in the states, there are lots of them!) but if that doesn't work, a new sensor is probably cheaper than a new manifold if things look like they are going to go badly.
--
Craig Lechowicz
'77 Kingsley, Waterford, MI
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: watertemp gauge [message #230751 is a reply to message #230651] |
Fri, 22 November 2013 06:20 |
appie
Messages: 902
Registered: April 2013
Location: denmark
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Just got a email from VDO:
we do not make senders NPT. We garante that our Nptf senders wil fit npt . Screw on by hand until tight and tighten with socket 1/4 revolution. Do not screw down!
I am still scared
Appie
eleganza 76 "Olga" now sadly sold
6 wheel discbrake
Quadrabags
Springfield stage 2 462 olds
Manny tranny
( pictures at http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6489-olga.html
Fulltiming in Europe july 2014 til july 2016
Denmark
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| Re: [GMCnet] watertemp gauge [message #230757 is a reply to message #230744] |
Fri, 22 November 2013 06:52 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Appie,
I remember seeing you mention the Edelbrock aluminum intake manifold, but
don't remember whether I've sent you my tale of woe about mine. I know
folks get tired of hearing it, but I don't want anyone else to destroy
their cylinder heads like I almost did, and others HAVE done::
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g3057-cylinder-head-damage-from-exhaust-crossover-plugs.html
Ken H.
On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 3:50 AM, lenze middelberg <lenze@middelberg.dk>wrote:
>
> ...
> Screwed the nptf male sender into a npt female steel pipe. Man am I happy
> this is not my alu intake!
> ...
> Appie
>
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Ken Henderson
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www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] watertemp gauge [message #230762 is a reply to message #230757] |
Fri, 22 November 2013 08:29 |
appie
Messages: 902
Registered: April 2013
Location: denmark
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Yes ken I have read it
Problem is, there is no way of knowing what's inside that intake without taking it apart. and I dont realy want to do that
Appie
eleganza 76 "Olga" now sadly sold
6 wheel discbrake
Quadrabags
Springfield stage 2 462 olds
Manny tranny
( pictures at http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6489-olga.html
Fulltiming in Europe july 2014 til july 2016
Denmark
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| Re: [GMCnet] watertemp gauge [message #230850 is a reply to message #230791] |
Fri, 22 November 2013 22:23 |
appie
Messages: 902
Registered: April 2013
Location: denmark
Karma: 2
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The best thing would be if it just works
Appie
eleganza 76 "Olga" now sadly sold
6 wheel discbrake
Quadrabags
Springfield stage 2 462 olds
Manny tranny
( pictures at http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6489-olga.html
Fulltiming in Europe july 2014 til july 2016
Denmark
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| Re: watertemp gauge [message #230861 is a reply to message #230651] |
Sat, 23 November 2013 01:39 |
Adrien G.
Messages: 474
Registered: May 2008
Location: Burns Flat, OK 73624
Karma: 1
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Cam up with this bit of info on the diff of NPT vs NPTF.
http://www.cutting-tool-supply.com/TechTips/Tapping/NPTvsNPTF/NPTVsNPTF.htm
"NPT Vs. NPTF Taper Pipe Threads
The two most common taper pipe threads used in the United States are NPT and NPTF. Applications range from electrical conduits and hand railings to high-pressure pipe lines that carry gas or caustic fluids. NPT threads are for mechanical or low-pressure air or fluid applications and require the use of sealing compounds like Teflon tape, to provide the seal. When the application is more critical, and the sealing compound may fail due to high heat or pressure, NPTF Dryseal threads are used. This mechanical seal is produced by the mating and slight crushing of the threads when a wrench is applied to tighten the fittings.
Visually, both threads appear to be identical. Both have a ¾” taper over one foot of length. Both have the same pitch diameter at the top of the hole of internal threads or end of the pipe on external threads, and both have the same thread lengths or depths. However, there is a subtle difference in the thread form that differentiates the two. The major and minor diameters of both threads differ slightly. With NPT threads, after a wrench is applied, slight spaces at the major and minor diameters may exist that would allow the assembly to leak and therefore a sealing compound is used to fill any gaps. On the other hand, NPTF threads are designed to ensure that sufficient crushing of the entire thread form will take place to produce a mechanical seal.
How does the difference in thread forms effect the tooling used to produce NPT and NPTF threads? Taps are available for both NPT and NPTF threads having the appropriate form to produce each type of thread. Since NPT threaded parts require sealing compounds, it is acceptable to use an NPTF tap for NPT applications. However, NPT taps cannot be used for NPTF applications, as it will likely produce a thread that will leak. The same is true of external threads. In most cases the tap drill is the same for both forms.
The most significant difference in the two threads is the inspection required. Since sealing compounds will be used for NPT threads, only a single plug with a step, known as an L1 plug (internal thread) or a single thin L1 ring (external) are required to check size. However, since the taper and the position of major and minor diameters are so critical to the sealing of NPTF threads, the additional threads in the assembly known as L2 and L3, and the major and minor diameters are inspected with either special plug or ring gages."
FWIW
Adrien & Jenny Genesoto
75 Glenbrook (26-3) Mods LS3.70 FD / Reaction Sys / 80mm Front&Intermidiate / Hydroboost / 16" Tires / Frame Rebuild / Interior Rebuild
Yuba City,Ca. Text 530-nine-3-three-3-nine-nine-6
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