| power from GMC power plant in an emergency [message #230194] |
Mon, 18 November 2013 17:43  |
1275gtsport
Messages: 272
Registered: September 2009
Location: Rothesay NB
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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From the is everybody out there OK thread.
Dogbone is indeed the adaptor to go from 50 amp to 30 amp 3 prong plug. cause they sometimes look like that. I have one of these. I understand there may also be one avail that will allow you to plug into the 4 prong 50 amp and then have a standard house like outlet to plug an extension cord into.
What I understand from what I have read here is that the Onan puts out 40 amp 120 volt power.
What I understand from reading other sites is that the 4 prong plug has 2 “Sides” (often referred to as legs.)
so lets say I take one leg and a ground to a standard house outlet in safe waterproof housing at the end of a cable. (this should be a 120v 20 amp outlet) and take the other “leg” and do the same. I should have 2 outlets that I can plug regular outdoor extension cords into that will provide 20 amps of power up to 3000 watts? 120 volt. yes?
What I want is on my coach I plug this adaptor cord into the power out from the onan. then one of the “legs” gets an extension cord plugged into that and runs into my house to power the fridge or freezer or small heater (one item at a time up to 3000 watts and not over 20 amp draw)
the other leg can go next door to my neighbour so he can do the same.
clear as mud? is there something wrong with my thinking?
I have no plans to plug into the house which yes indeed backfeed the power grid and kill the nice lineman trying to restore power to my house. ( I have a rough Idea how to do that but see no reason to ever want to)
I don’t see the onan having enough power to run my entire house. the heat pump takes an awful lot of power to spin up.
what I would need a wiring diagram for would be which pins on the onan provide what. I could also go look up the info in the manual couldn’t I. Just had the thought and asked.
Adam Raeburn
Rothesay, NB
1976 Austin Mini
1977 GMC Palm Beach
---------------------------------------------------
Once you replace everything that is attached to something else. It will all be fixed.
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| Re: power from GMC power plant in an emergency [message #230195 is a reply to message #230194] |
Mon, 18 November 2013 17:54  |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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The 14-50 4 pin recepticle on the GMC is a slight misnomer as the Onan only puts out one 50a leg. The L1 and L2 in the recepticle are paralleled so it will feed both sides of the shore power cord. Most simply, you could find 2 Edison outlets in the coach that are on separate breakers depending how your panel is setup (ie outside outlet and stove area outlet or hall or front table area) and run extension cords to your loads. That's simplest.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: power from GMC power plant in an emergency [message #230197 is a reply to message #230194] |
Mon, 18 November 2013 18:03 |
GMC Cruse
Messages: 606
Registered: June 2009
Location: SE Michigan
Karma: 3
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Depending upon the time of year, I use 2 or 3 heavy duty extension cords plugged into regular receptacles at the GMC.
I keep a regular plug with pigtail next to the house furnace switch. If power goes out, I disconnect the house wiring at the switch and install the plug with pigtail (takes about 2 minutes)and plug it into one of the cords from the Onan, if needed I also plug the sump pump into that cord.
One of the other cords goes to the kitchen for the refrigerator and needed kitchen items. The other goes to the living room for plugging in the TV,lights, etc.
No chance of back feed if Edison power is restored with this setup.
My brother lives next door and if his portable generator won't start, I run a couple cords to his place also. If the Onan won't start, he'll run a couple cords to my place.
Mike K.
'75 PB
Southeast Michigan
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| Re: power from GMC power plant in an emergency [message #230201 is a reply to message #230199] |
Mon, 18 November 2013 18:17 |
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WD0AFQ
Messages: 7111
Registered: November 2004
Location: Dexter, Mo.
Karma: 207
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It started here at 230 pm. Temp was 80 degrees, then it took off. We are 75 miles due west of Brookport, Il, where the three folks were killed, just across the Ohio from Paducah. On the Mo. Side of Ms. River, lots of damage but no deaths. The southern storm ran east from there. I see Mike Beaton was getting storms today, up in Canada, out of this same system.
I rarely lose power here. We use the 1000 Kipor to run small appliances and the 6,000 Onan for the larger ones. Just plug into the outlets on the GMC. Tanks always full.
Teri and I have kept those in the paths of the storms in our thoughts and prayers.
Dan
3 In Stainless Exhaust Headers
One Ton All Discs/Reaction Arm
355 FD/Quad Bag/Alum Radiator Manny Tran/New eng.
Holley EFI/10 Tire Air Monitoring System
Solarized Coach/Upgraded Windows
Satelite TV/On Demand Hot Water/3Way Refer
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| Re: power from GMC power plant in an emergency [message #230202 is a reply to message #230201] |
Mon, 18 November 2013 18:19 |
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WD0AFQ
Messages: 7111
Registered: November 2004
Location: Dexter, Mo.
Karma: 207
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| WD0AFQ wrote on Mon, 18 November 2013 18:17 |
It started here at 230 pm. Temp was 80 degrees, then it took off. We are 75 miles due west of Brookport, Il, where the three folks were killed, just across the Ohio from Paducah. On the Mo. Side of Ms. River, lots of damage but no deaths. The southern storm ran east from there. I see Mike Beaton was getting storms today, up in Canada, out of this same system.
I rarely lose power here. We use the 1000 Kipor to run small appliances and the 6,000 Onan for the larger ones. Just plug into the outlets on the GMC. Tanks always full.
Teri and I have kept those in the paths of the storms in our thoughts and prayers.
Dan
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I have no clue how this got snatched from Matt's thread..
3 In Stainless Exhaust Headers
One Ton All Discs/Reaction Arm
355 FD/Quad Bag/Alum Radiator Manny Tran/New eng.
Holley EFI/10 Tire Air Monitoring System
Solarized Coach/Upgraded Windows
Satelite TV/On Demand Hot Water/3Way Refer
[Updated on: Mon, 18 November 2013 18:21] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] power from GMC power plant in an emergency [message #230205 is a reply to message #230194] |
Mon, 18 November 2013 18:34 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Make sure you throw the main breaker on your house panel so you don't backfeed the linesmen.
Todd Sullivan
Sully
77 royale
Seattle
> On Nov 18, 2013, at 3:43 PM, 1275gtsport@gmail.com <1275gtsport@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> From the is everybody out there OK thread.
>
> Dogbone is indeed the adaptor to go from 50 amp to 30 amp 3 prong plug. cause they sometimes look like that. I have one of these. I understand there may also be one avail that will allow you to plug into the 4 prong 50 amp and then have a standard house like outlet to plug an extension cord into.
>
> What I understand from what I have read here is that the Onan puts out 40 amp 120 volt power.
> What I understand from reading other sites is that the 4 prong plug has 2 “Sides” (often referred to as legs.)
> so lets say I take one leg and a ground to a standard house outlet in safe waterproof housing at the end of a cable. (this should be a 120v 20 amp outlet) and take the other “leg” and do the same. I should have 2 outlets that I can plug regular outdoor extension cords into that will provide 20 amps of power up to 3000 watts? 120 volt. yes?
>
> What I want is on my coach I plug this adaptor cord into the power out from the onan. then one of the “legs” gets an extension cord plugged into that and runs into my house to power the fridge or freezer or small heater (one item at a time up to 3000 watts and not over 20 amp draw)
> the other leg can go next door to my neighbour so he can do the same.
>
> clear as mud? is there something wrong with my thinking?
>
> I have no plans to plug into the house which yes indeed backfeed the power grid and kill the nice lineman trying to restore power to my house. ( I have a rough Idea how to do that but see no reason to ever want to)
> I don’t see the onan having enough power to run my entire house. the heat pump takes an awful lot of power to spin up.
>
> what I would need a wiring diagram for would be which pins on the onan provide what. I could also go look up the info in the manual couldn’t I. Just had the thought and asked.
>
> --
> Adam Raeburn
> Rothesay, NB
> 1976 Austin Mini
> 1977 GMC Palm Beach
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Once you replace everything that is attached to something else. It will all be fixed.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: power from GMC power plant in an emergency [message #230208 is a reply to message #230194] |
Mon, 18 November 2013 18:51 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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So I guess I'm confused....or perhaps just uneducated.
Does the Onan only put out ONE 50A 120V line as previously stated? I assumed it put out two 25A 120v lines that could be combined into a 50A 220V house circuit?????
I've got several generators but the Onan was going to be a second backup. What I need to do is get it into a 220 circuit in the house so I can feed ANY house circuit just by throwing the breaker on/off. If it's only 110 than it only feeds half the box.
??
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: power from GMC power plant in an emergency [message #230211 is a reply to message #230201] |
Mon, 18 November 2013 19:06 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| WD0AFQ wrote on Mon, 18 November 2013 19:17 |
It started here at 230 pm. Temp was 80 degrees, then it took off. We are 75 miles due west of Brookport, Il, where the three folks were killed, just across the Ohio from Paducah. On the Mo. Side of Ms. River, lots of damage but no deaths. The southern storm ran east from there. I see Mike Beaton was getting storms today, up in Canada, out of this same system.
I rarely lose power here. We use the 1000 Kipor to run small appliances and the 6,000 Onan for the larger ones. Just plug into the outlets on the GMC. Tanks always full.
Teri and I have kept those in the paths of the storms in our thoughts and prayers.
Dan
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Thanks Dan,
That was most of what I was asking...
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: power from GMC power plant in an emergency [message #230213 is a reply to message #230194] |
Mon, 18 November 2013 19:21 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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""Dogbone is indeed the adaptor to go from 50 amp to 30 amp 3 prong plug. cause they sometimes look like that. I have one of these. I understand there may also be one avail that will allow you to plug into the 4 prong 50 amp and then have a standard house like outlet to plug an extension cord into.
What I understand from what I have read here is that the Onan puts out 40 amp 120 volt power.
What I understand from reading other sites is that the 4 prong plug has 2 “Sides” (often referred to as legs.)
so lets say I take one leg and a ground to a standard house outlet in safe waterproof housing at the end of a cable. (this should be a 120v 20 amp outlet) and take the other “leg” and do the same. I should have 2 outlets that I can plug regular outdoor extension cords into that will provide 20 amps of power up to 3000 watts? 120 volt. yes?""
Adam, I think you have the logic figured out, but you would need a dog bone that starts with a 50 amp male and steps down from there. All the ones I have seen start with a 50 amp female so that you end up with a male end after stepping down. They may exist or you may plan on making your own. I don't think the breakers in your coach panel are rated for what you want to do if you just plugged a cord into an outlet in the coach, but they are different depending on who built your model. I find it interesting that the thread has turned into warnings about backdriving the grid when you clearly said that you have no intention of doing so.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: power from GMC power plant in an emergency [message #230214 is a reply to message #230208] |
Mon, 18 November 2013 19:24 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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| Kerry Pinkerton wrote on Mon, 18 November 2013 16:51 |
So I guess I'm confused....or perhaps just uneducated.
Does the Onan only put out ONE 50A 120V line as previously stated? I assumed it put out two 25A 120v lines that could be combined into a 50A 220V house circuit?????
I've got several generators but the Onan was going to be a second backup. What I need to do is get it into a 220 circuit in the house so I can feed ANY house circuit just by throwing the breaker on/off. If it's only 110 than it only feeds half the box.
??
|
If i remember correctly it is basically 2 25 amp feeds coming out of the onan in phase meaning they can be paralled to make 120 50 amps but not 240 volt which would be 2 feeds out of phase.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
[Updated on: Mon, 18 November 2013 20:36] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: power from GMC power plant in an emergency [message #230215 is a reply to message #230214] |
Mon, 18 November 2013 19:26 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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""If i remember correctly it is basically 2 25 amp feeds coming out of the onan in phase meaning they can be paroled to make 120 50 amps but not 240 volt which would be 2 feeds out of phase.
Roy Keen Minden,NV 76 X Glenbrook""
Emery did a good write up a while ago and IIRC there are a few Onan power drawers that can indeed put out 220V.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: power from GMC power plant in an emergency [message #230216 is a reply to message #230208] |
Mon, 18 November 2013 19:29 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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| Kerry Pinkerton wrote on Mon, 18 November 2013 16:51 |
So I guess I'm confused....or perhaps just uneducated.
Does the Onan only put out ONE 50A 120V line as previously stated? I assumed it put out two 25A 120v lines that could be combined into a 50A 220V house circuit?????
I've got several generators but the Onan was going to be a second backup. What I need to do is get it into a 220 circuit in the house so I can feed ANY house circuit just by throwing the breaker on/off. If it's only 110 than it only feeds half the box.
??
|
it's only a 6 kw generator P=IxE 240x 50 would be a 12 kw generator
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: power from GMC power plant in an emergency [message #230219 is a reply to message #230194] |
Mon, 18 November 2013 19:59 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| 1275gtsport wrote on Mon, 18 November 2013 18:43 |
From the is everybody out there OK thread.
Dogbone is indeed the adaptor to go from 50 amp to 30 amp 3 prong plug. cause they sometimes look like that. I have one of these. I understand there may also be one avail that will allow you to plug into the 4 prong 50 amp and then have a standard house like outlet to plug an extension cord into.
What I understand from what I have read here is that the Onan puts out 40 amp 120 volt power.
What I understand from reading other sites is that the 4 prong plug has 2 “Sides” (often referred to as legs.)
so lets say I take one leg and a ground to a standard house outlet in safe waterproof housing at the end of a cable. (this should be a 120v 20 amp outlet) and take the other “leg” and do the same. I should have 2 outlets that I can plug regular outdoor extension cords into that will provide 20 amps of power up to 3000 watts? 120 volt. yes?
What I want is on my coach I plug this adaptor cord into the power out from the onan. then one of the “legs” gets an extension cord plugged into that and runs into my house to power the fridge or freezer or small heater (one item at a time up to 3000 watts and not over 20 amp draw)
the other leg can go next door to my neighbour so he can do the same.
clear as mud? is there something wrong with my thinking?
I have no plans to plug into the house which yes indeed backfeed the power grid and kill the nice lineman trying to restore power to my house. ( I have a rough Idea how to do that but see no reason to ever want to)
I don’t see the onan having enough power to run my entire house. the heat pump takes an awful lot of power to spin up.
what I would need a wiring diagram for would be which pins on the onan provide what. I could also go look up the info in the manual couldn’t I. Just had the thought and asked.
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Actually Adam,
That area of the Onan manual is not very clear. The Onans of our coaches have two parallel conductors that make little sense in the real world.
The way a GMC electric service is assembled is a freak result of code, history, tradition and expectation.
Let's get to what you want first and the safe way to do it.
Get a plug called a 14-50, some #6-4 conductor SFO (rubber) cable and a small breaker box (like 4 breakers worth). This box will need the optional isolated neutral bar. From there you are going to have to break out into single or duplex receptacles these can be two to a box and I advise each be on its own breaker.
A 14-50 is a a 120/240 volt 50 Amp (per leg)connector that has two line connectors, a neutral and a ground. The plug will come with wiring instructions. The black and red are the two line legs, the white is the neutral and the green is the safety ground.
The breaker box will have two feed bars, the black and red go to these. The green will go the the ground buss that is bonded (connected) to the box, but the white will go to the neutral bar.
Everything has got to have strain reliefs everywhere wire goes through a box. I suggest you break the Onan's output into at least four breakers - two on each leg. Those breakers will supply the receptacles. These are easily done in "pendant" boxes. Be cautious - if you connect the receptacles to the breakers with stranded cable, most receptacles will not be able to accept the stranded wire without crimped on lugs.
The standard receptacle that RV people now insist on calling a 20 amp, is in actual fact 15. The designation is 5-15 meaning 120V-15Amp. A 5-20 is a different animal and the blades are not parallel, but the right blade of the receptacle is supposed to be a T shape to accept either the 5-15 or 5-20 plug. A 5-20 plug has the left blade (neutral) perpendicular to the line blade. I strongly suggest that unless you have special requirements, you stay with all 15 Amp hardware.
About the code, history, tradition and expectation, when the GMCs were being designed, most RVs were 30 amp, and it wasn't working. Before multiple A/C units electric hot water and microwave ovens, 120V at 30 amps was plenty. When the big coaches hit, their answer was two separate 30 amp feeds. This was a problem as campgrounds were not able to deal with it and it was a violation of the existing codes to have two power feeds to a dwelling. With the expectation of higher electrical demand, just about all of the high-line coach builders started installing 50 amp (or at least compatible) electric service. Problem - more accurately two problems. First is that it cost more to build into the new coach and those builders kept saying that they weren't seeing the campgrounds getting in this parade. Second problem, they were correct. The existing campgrounds were not ripping up the ground and burying new bigger (more expensive) cable. They still aren't. In that fact, I am actually surprised at how many recently build campgrounds do not have the 50 amp option.
There is your how-to and a short history lesson.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: power from GMC power plant in an emergency [message #230221 is a reply to message #230217] |
Mon, 18 November 2013 20:33 |
1275gtsport
Messages: 272
Registered: September 2009
Location: Rothesay NB
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| A Hamilto wrote on Mon, 18 November 2013 21:31 |
Very good. Except you can get 4000 watts from a 4k unit and 6,000 watts from a 6k unit.
And without something to limit the current on each of your 20A outlets, either can be loaded up to 33A for a 4k Onan or 50A from a 6k Onan. Wires could melt and short out and it could get ugly.
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true enough, I was thinking that half of the 6K is the target wattage. control would have to be left to the bipeds plugging stuff in. I do see the potential of things getting bad really easily.
Adam Raeburn
Rothesay, NB
1976 Austin Mini
1977 GMC Palm Beach
---------------------------------------------------
Once you replace everything that is attached to something else. It will all be fixed.
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