Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Interesting item for vapor lock problems
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| Re: [GMCnet] Interesting item for vapor lock problems [message #228265 is a reply to message #228240] |
Sun, 03 November 2013 08:53   |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
You're right!
RC,
Thanks for the Ferrari ad as it explained how it works to me. If I am correct you feed Freon from the outlet of the condenser to
this unit, the Freon expands inside the cooler and it cools the fuel.
I am currently getting the parts necessary to build a fuel supply system that has two low pressure in tank pumps feeding a surge
tank which will feed the mechanical fuel pump.
I am basically copying what SteveS did. It allows one to run a carb and if desired to upgrade to EFI at a later date by replacing
the mechanical fuel pump with a high pressure pump. I see a an advantage in not having 20 odd feet of fuel lines at hi pressure.
At any rate this cooler could be placed in the system and it would cool the fuel to the EFI and the bypassed fuel could help cool
the fuel in the tanks.
It would be nice to know the BTU rating of the device.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of RC Jordan
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 6:16 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Interesting item for vapor lock problems
mercedes
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MERCEDES-S-CLASS-W140-AC-A-C-FREON-GAS-FUEL-COOLER-HEAT-EXCHANGER-/130691686651
Ferrari
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ferrari-550-Barchetta-Fuel-Freon-Heat-Exchanger-181266-/120589631458
--
77 Royale Coachmen Side Dry Bath
76 Birchaven Coachmen Side Wet Bath
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Interesting item for vapor lock problems [message #228277 is a reply to message #228239] |
Sun, 03 November 2013 10:14 |
rcjordan
Messages: 1913
Registered: October 2012
Location: Elizabeth City, North Car...
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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>stupid simple good idea
I think so, too. I like the threaded units, seems easier to adapt. The mercedes unit seems to be the cheapest/most plentiful but -until we get some BTU ratings- I'd assume that the seemingly larger Ferrari model offers more capacity. And a Ferrari at high load *might* be about the same gas consumption of a GMC at idle, heh.
SOLD 77 Royale Coachmen Side Dry Bath
76 Birchaven Coachmen Side Wet Bath
76 Eleganza
Elizabeth City, NC
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| Re: [GMCnet] Interesting item for vapor lock problems [message #228292 is a reply to message #228240] |
Sun, 03 November 2013 11:11 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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RC,
Stumbled on to something else that might work:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Moroso-Fuel-Cooler-Aluminum-Heat-Sink-Polyethylene-Shell-Mounting-Hardware-/390687757226?pt=Motors_Car_Truck
_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5af6ce13aa&vxp=mtr#ht_1730wt_808
I assume this is meant to be filled with ice / dry ice on race vehicles. I wonder if it would help if you plumbed the evaporator's
water drain to it. That water is usually pretty cool.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Mueller [mailto:robmueller@iinet.net.au]
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 8:54 AM
To: 'gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org'
Subject: RE: [GMCnet] Interesting item for vapor lock problems
Ken,
You're right!
RC,
Thanks for the Ferrari ad as it explained how it works to me. If I am correct you feed Freon from the outlet of the condenser to
this unit, the Freon expands inside the cooler and it cools the fuel.
I am currently getting the parts necessary to build a fuel supply system that has two low pressure in tank pumps feeding a surge
tank which will feed the mechanical fuel pump.
I am basically copying what SteveS did. It allows one to run a carb and if desired to upgrade to EFI at a later date by replacing
the mechanical fuel pump with a high pressure pump. I see a an advantage in not having 20 odd feet of fuel lines at hi pressure.
At any rate this cooler could be placed in the system and it would cool the fuel to the EFI and the bypassed fuel could help cool
the fuel in the tanks.
It would be nice to know the BTU rating of the device.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of RC Jordan
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 6:16 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Interesting item for vapor lock problems
mercedes
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MERCEDES-S-CLASS-W140-AC-A-C-FREON-GAS-FUEL-COOLER-HEAT-EXCHANGER-/130691686651
Ferrari
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ferrari-550-Barchetta-Fuel-Freon-Heat-Exchanger-181266-/120589631458
--
77 Royale Coachmen Side Dry Bath
76 Birchaven Coachmen Side Wet Bath
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Interesting item for vapor lock problems [message #228304 is a reply to message #228300] |
Sun, 03 November 2013 12:10 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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RC,
I like your "can" better!
Since it's metal you can drill a hole in the center of the top and (if) when it fills up with water from the A/C it will run out
onto the surface and provide a bit more cooling as the water evaporates?
How do you plan on using the peltiers?
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of RC Jordan
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 12:02 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Interesting item for vapor lock problems
>moroso
>evaporator
We're on the same wavelength, Rob. I already have this one in the garage to 'review'
http://www.jegs.com/i/Mr.+Gasket/720/1350/10002/-1
Along with some large-ish peltiers, which I think is an really unlikely solution even if part of an array given the fuel flow. But,
hey, they were cheap.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009T0FE7G/
--
77 Royale Coachmen Side Dry Bath
76 Birchaven Coachmen Side Wet Bath
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Interesting item for vapor lock problems [message #228306 is a reply to message #228239] |
Sun, 03 November 2013 12:31 |
rcjordan
Messages: 1913
Registered: October 2012
Location: Elizabeth City, North Car...
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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I'm hoping that the aluminum drip cooler would dissipate the heat better than the moroso ...but that's assuming it doesn't ABSORB heat better. I may need some sort of ram air ducting.
>peltier
I have a vague, wispy-reality idea of an array on a t-stat. There are all sorts of heat sinks and even radiators built for cpu cooling that could come into play, too.
SOLD 77 Royale Coachmen Side Dry Bath
76 Birchaven Coachmen Side Wet Bath
76 Eleganza
Elizabeth City, NC
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| Re: [GMCnet] Interesting item for vapor lock problems [message #228308 is a reply to message #228296] |
Sun, 03 November 2013 12:34 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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Now you have me even more confused. Your original message said that you would use a small tank and could replace the 7 psi pump with a 17 psi if you wanted to put in TBI. If you do that you would have the same 17 psi but in a shorter steel line with two fittings on it. What is the difference with having a longer line with two fittings (without the tank)?
You shouldn't be dumping any more fuel if you have the longer line with a leak than if you have the shorter line with a leak.
You had stated: "I see a an advantage in not having 20 odd feet of fuel lines at hi pressure".
What is the difference if you have 20 feet of line instead of 5 to 10 feet of line?
That was my original question.
Actually, if you have a low pressure pump filling a surge tank and then another pump from the surge tank to the carb (or TBI) you would seem to have more fittings and more potential for leakage. It certainly isn't going to leak from the steel line no matter how long it is. Only from the fittings.
As to a line leaking more at 17 psi than at 7 psi, I agree with you. If you have a TBI system then you have to have a line somewhere with 17 psi.
BUT, if you are using a carb at 7 psi then you would never install a pump with 17 psi so it seems to be a moot point.
Emery Stora
On Nov 3, 2013, at 10:28 AM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> Emery,
>
> It appears I have not expressed my point clearly.
>
> I'm not talking about the possibility of a leak I'm saying if there WAS a leak a fuel line pressurized to 17 psi it WOULD dump more
> fuel out than a line pressurized to 7 psi.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Emery Stora
> Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 11:08 AM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Interesting item for vapor lock problems
>
> Never assume. That 70 psi had nothing to do with the pump max pressure. I just happened to turn my pressure regulator on my air
> compressor to that pressure and it held. I probably could have turned it to 100 and it likely would also hold. But I figured that if
> it held at 70 that should be good enough.
>
> As to having pressure in a line that might leak if you have a connector at each end of a steel line whether the line is 10 foot or
> 20 foot would not seem to have any bearing on the possibility of a leak. It is the two fittings that are involved and you would
> still have two fittings on a shorter line.
>
> Emery
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Interesting item for vapor lock problems [message #228312 is a reply to message #228311] |
Sun, 03 November 2013 13:31 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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| Neil wrote on Sun, 03 November 2013 13:20 |
I just don't see the freon coolers doing the job if the fuel is boiling in the tank. When that happens the pump is sucking air no matter what.
|
For the freon cooler to work properly it is necessary to have a fuel return loop back to the tank(s). In the case of a GMCMH only one return line is needed as the tanks communicate through the filler.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Interesting item for vapor lock problems [message #228314 is a reply to message #228308] |
Sun, 03 November 2013 13:41 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Emery,
I'm sorry but I did not say; "Your original message said that you would use a small tank and could replace the 7 psi pump with a 17
psi if you wanted to put in TBI."
Here's what I said;
"I am currently getting the parts necessary to build a fuel supply system that has two low pressure in tank pumps feeding a surge
tank which will feed the mechanical fuel pump. I am basically copying what SteveS did. It allows one to run a carb and if desired to
upgrade to EFI at a later date by replacing the mechanical fuel pump with a high pressure pump. I see an advantage in not having 20
odd feet of fuel lines at hi pressure."
Before typing this message I had a chat with Steve Southwood and he intends to put together detailed information about how he built
his system and why he did it the way he did. We can discuss the merits of the way he (and I) are building a fuel delivery system at
that time.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Emery Stora
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 12:35 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Interesting item for vapor lock problems
Now you have me even more confused. Your original message said that you would use a small tank and could replace the 7 psi pump
with a 17 psi if you wanted to put in TBI. If you do that you would have the same 17 psi but in a shorter steel line with two
fittings on it. What is the difference with having a longer line with two fittings (without the tank)?
You shouldn't be dumping any more fuel if you have the longer line with a leak than if you have the shorter line with a leak.
You had stated: "I see a an advantage in not having 20 odd feet of fuel lines at hi pressure".
What is the difference if you have 20 feet of line instead of 5 to 10 feet of line?
That was my original question.
Actually, if you have a low pressure pump filling a surge tank and then another pump from the surge tank to the carb (or TBI) you
would seem to have more fittings and more potential for leakage. It certainly isn't going to leak from the steel line no matter how
long it is. Only from the fittings.
As to a line leaking more at 17 psi than at 7 psi, I agree with you. If you have a TBI system then you have to have a line
somewhere with 17 psi.
BUT, if you are using a carb at 7 psi then you would never install a pump with 17 psi so it seems to be a moot point.
Emery Stora
On Nov 3, 2013, at 10:28 AM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> Emery,
>
> It appears I have not expressed my point clearly.
>
> I'm not talking about the possibility of a leak I'm saying if there WAS a leak a fuel line pressurized to 17 psi it WOULD dump
more
> fuel out than a line pressurized to 7 psi.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Emery Stora
> Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 11:08 AM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Interesting item for vapor lock problems
>
> Never assume. That 70 psi had nothing to do with the pump max pressure. I just happened to turn my pressure regulator on my air
> compressor to that pressure and it held. I probably could have turned it to 100 and it likely would also hold. But I figured that
if
> it held at 70 that should be good enough.
>
> As to having pressure in a line that might leak if you have a connector at each end of a steel line whether the line is 10 foot or
> 20 foot would not seem to have any bearing on the possibility of a leak. It is the two fittings that are involved and you would
> still have two fittings on a shorter line.
>
> Emery
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Interesting item for vapor lock problems [message #228315 is a reply to message #228314] |
Sun, 03 November 2013 13:53 |
Emery Stora
Messages: 959
Registered: January 2011
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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OK
I had not saved your original message so I couldn't quote it. However, if you are possibly replacing the mechanical pump with a high pressure pump (rather than replacing a 7 psi pump with a high pressure pump) then what i just said still applies.
I still do not see any advantage in having a short line under high pressure versus having a "20 odd feet" of line under high pressure. I don't care if the short line is only one foot. What advantage do you see? It still has two fittings which is the only place it could leak. That is only what I was questioning.
You said
>
> I see an advantage in not having 20 odd feet of fuel lines at hi pressure
You would only have that if you install a high pressure pump. So i am back to my original question. If you install a high pressure pump, what is the advantage of a shorter line?
Emery Stora
On Nov 3, 2013, at 12:41 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> Emery,
>
> I'm sorry but I did not say; "Your original message said that you would use a small tank and could replace the 7 psi pump with a 17
> psi if you wanted to put in TBI."
>
> Here's what I said;
>
> "I am currently getting the parts necessary to build a fuel supply system that has two low pressure in tank pumps feeding a surge
> tank which will feed the mechanical fuel pump. I am basically copying what SteveS did. It allows one to run a carb and if desired to
> upgrade to EFI at a later date by replacing the mechanical fuel pump with a high pressure pump. ."
>
> Before typing this message I had a chat with Steve Southwood and he intends to put together detailed information about how he built
> his system and why he did it the way he did. We can discuss the merits of the way he (and I) are building a fuel delivery system at
> that time.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
> USAussie - Downunder
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Emery Stora
> Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 12:35 PM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Interesting item for vapor lock problems
>
> Now you have me even more confused. Your original message said that you would use a small tank and could replace the 7 psi pump
> with a 17 psi if you wanted to put in TBI. If you do that you would have the same 17 psi but in a shorter steel line with two
> fittings on it. What is the difference with having a longer line with two fittings (without the tank)?
>
> You shouldn't be dumping any more fuel if you have the longer line with a leak than if you have the shorter line with a leak.
>
> You had stated: "I see a an advantage in not having 20 odd feet of fuel lines at hi pressure".
>
> What is the difference if you have 20 feet of line instead of 5 to 10 feet of line?
> That was my original question.
>
> Actually, if you have a low pressure pump filling a surge tank and then another pump from the surge tank to the carb (or TBI) you
> would seem to have more fittings and more potential for leakage. It certainly isn't going to leak from the steel line no matter how
> long it is. Only from the fittings.
>
> As to a line leaking more at 17 psi than at 7 psi, I agree with you. If you have a TBI system then you have to have a line
> somewhere with 17 psi.
> BUT, if you are using a carb at 7 psi then you would never install a pump with 17 psi so it seems to be a moot point.
>
> Emery Stora
>
> On Nov 3, 2013, at 10:28 AM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
>
>> Emery,
>>
>> It appears I have not expressed my point clearly.
>>
>> I'm not talking about the possibility of a leak I'm saying if there WAS a leak a fuel line pressurized to 17 psi it WOULD dump
> more
>> fuel out than a line pressurized to 7 psi.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rob M.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Emery Stora
>> Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 11:08 AM
>> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Interesting item for vapor lock problems
>>
>> Never assume. That 70 psi had nothing to do with the pump max pressure. I just happened to turn my pressure regulator on my air
>> compressor to that pressure and it held. I probably could have turned it to 100 and it likely would also hold. But I figured that
> if
>> it held at 70 that should be good enough.
>>
>> As to having pressure in a line that might leak if you have a connector at each end of a steel line whether the line is 10 foot or
>> 20 foot would not seem to have any bearing on the possibility of a leak. It is the two fittings that are involved and you would
>> still have two fittings on a shorter line.
>>
>> Emery
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Interesting item for vapor lock problems [message #228318 is a reply to message #228315] |
Sun, 03 November 2013 15:23 |
|
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Emery,
A 3/8 OD line 20 feet long has 20 times the surface area exposed to possible damage than a line 1 foot long.
Whether or not it gets damaged is another question.
By the way I have replaced lines that have holes chafed through them and lines that have cracked due to vibration.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Emery Stora
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 1:53 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Interesting item for vapor lock problems
OK
I had not saved your original message so I couldn't quote it. However, if you are possibly replacing the mechanical pump with a high
pressure pump (rather than replacing a 7 psi pump with a high pressure pump) then what i just said still applies.
I still do not see any advantage in having a short line under high pressure versus having a "20 odd feet" of line under high
pressure. I don't care if the short line is only one foot. What advantage do you see? It still has two fittings which is the only
place it could leak. That is only what I was questioning.
You said
>
> I see an advantage in not having 20 odd feet of fuel lines at hi pressure
You would only have that if you install a high pressure pump. So i am back to my original question. If you install a high pressure
pump, what is the advantage of a shorter line?
Emery Stora
On Nov 3, 2013, at 12:41 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> Emery,
>
> I'm sorry but I did not say; "Your original message said that you would use a small tank and could replace the 7 psi pump with a
17
> psi if you wanted to put in TBI."
>
> Here's what I said;
>
> "I am currently getting the parts necessary to build a fuel supply system that has two low pressure in tank pumps feeding a surge
> tank which will feed the mechanical fuel pump. I am basically copying what SteveS did. It allows one to run a carb and if desired
to
> upgrade to EFI at a later date by replacing the mechanical fuel pump with a high pressure pump. ."
>
> Before typing this message I had a chat with Steve Southwood and he intends to put together detailed information about how he
built
> his system and why he did it the way he did. We can discuss the merits of the way he (and I) are building a fuel delivery system
at
> that time.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
> USAussie - Downunder
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Emery Stora
> Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 12:35 PM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Interesting item for vapor lock problems
>
> Now you have me even more confused. Your original message said that you would use a small tank and could replace the 7 psi pump
> with a 17 psi if you wanted to put in TBI. If you do that you would have the same 17 psi but in a shorter steel line with two
> fittings on it. What is the difference with having a longer line with two fittings (without the tank)?
>
> You shouldn't be dumping any more fuel if you have the longer line with a leak than if you have the shorter line with a leak.
>
> You had stated: "I see a an advantage in not having 20 odd feet of fuel lines at hi pressure".
>
> What is the difference if you have 20 feet of line instead of 5 to 10 feet of line?
> That was my original question.
>
> Actually, if you have a low pressure pump filling a surge tank and then another pump from the surge tank to the carb (or TBI) you
> would seem to have more fittings and more potential for leakage. It certainly isn't going to leak from the steel line no matter
how
> long it is. Only from the fittings.
>
> As to a line leaking more at 17 psi than at 7 psi, I agree with you. If you have a TBI system then you have to have a line
> somewhere with 17 psi.
> BUT, if you are using a carb at 7 psi then you would never install a pump with 17 psi so it seems to be a moot point.
>
> Emery Stora
>
> On Nov 3, 2013, at 10:28 AM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
>
>> Emery,
>>
>> It appears I have not expressed my point clearly.
>>
>> I'm not talking about the possibility of a leak I'm saying if there WAS a leak a fuel line pressurized to 17 psi it WOULD dump
> more
>> fuel out than a line pressurized to 7 psi.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rob M.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Emery Stora
>> Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 11:08 AM
>> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Interesting item for vapor lock problems
>>
>> Never assume. That 70 psi had nothing to do with the pump max pressure. I just happened to turn my pressure regulator on my air
>> compressor to that pressure and it held. I probably could have turned it to 100 and it likely would also hold. But I figured that
> if
>> it held at 70 that should be good enough.
>>
>> As to having pressure in a line that might leak if you have a connector at each end of a steel line whether the line is 10 foot
or
>> 20 foot would not seem to have any bearing on the possibility of a leak. It is the two fittings that are involved and you would
>> still have two fittings on a shorter line.
>>
>> Emery
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Interesting item for vapor lock problems [message #228324 is a reply to message #228318] |
Sun, 03 November 2013 16:25 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
|
Senior Member |
|
|
OK. Enough of this thread. I think that you have finally told me what advantage you see with having a short line from the surge tank to the carb.
But doesn't this ignore the fact that you have the same amount of line from the fuel tank to the surge tank which could also chaff and crack? Except that line would only be 7 psi instead of 17 psi. But your 17 psi would still have two fittings and the 7 psi would also has 2 fittings which doubles the possibility of leakage at the fittings.
My only other comment is that if a line is properly held in place with clamps that have a padding on them there should be no risk of chaffing and if a steel fuel line is used it should not crack. If suspended properly it should not have a vibration problem either.
Thank you.
Emery Stora
On Nov 3, 2013, at 2:23 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
>
> Emery,
>
> A 3/8 OD line 20 feet long has 20 times the surface area exposed to possible damage than a line 1 foot long.
>
> Whether or not it gets damaged is another question.
>
> By the way I have replaced lines that have holes chafed through them and lines that have cracked due to vibration.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
> USAussie - Downunder
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Emery Stora
> Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 1:53 PM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Interesting item for vapor lock problems
>
> OK
>
> I had not saved your original message so I couldn't quote it. However, if you are possibly replacing the mechanical pump with a high
> pressure pump (rather than replacing a 7 psi pump with a high pressure pump) then what i just said still applies.
>
> I still do not see any advantage in having a short line under high pressure versus having a "20 odd feet" of line under high
> pressure. I don't care if the short line is only one foot. What advantage do you see? It still has two fittings which is the only
> place it could leak. That is only what I was questioning.
>
> You said
>>
>> I see an advantage in not having 20 odd feet of fuel lines at hi pressure
>
> You would only have that if you install a high pressure pump. So i am back to my original question. If you install a high pressure
> pump, what is the advantage of a shorter line?
>
> Emery Stora
>
> On Nov 3, 2013, at 12:41 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
>
>> Emery,
>>
>> I'm sorry but I did not say; "Your original message said that you would use a small tank and could replace the 7 psi pump with a
> 17
>> psi if you wanted to put in TBI."
>>
>> Here's what I said;
>>
>> "I am currently getting the parts necessary to build a fuel supply system that has two low pressure in tank pumps feeding a surge
>> tank which will feed the mechanical fuel pump. I am basically copying what SteveS did. It allows one to run a carb and if desired
> to
>> upgrade to EFI at a later date by replacing the mechanical fuel pump with a high pressure pump. ."
>>
>> Before typing this message I had a chat with Steve Southwood and he intends to put together detailed information about how he
> built
>> his system and why he did it the way he did. We can discuss the merits of the way he (and I) are building a fuel delivery system
> at
>> that time.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rob M.
>> The Pedantic Mechanic
>> USAussie - Downunder
>> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Emery Stora
>> Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 12:35 PM
>> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Interesting item for vapor lock problems
>>
>> Now you have me even more confused. Your original message said that you would use a small tank and could replace the 7 psi pump
>> with a 17 psi if you wanted to put in TBI. If you do that you would have the same 17 psi but in a shorter steel line with two
>> fittings on it. What is the difference with having a longer line with two fittings (without the tank)?
>>
>> You shouldn't be dumping any more fuel if you have the longer line with a leak than if you have the shorter line with a leak.
>>
>> You had stated: "I see a an advantage in not having 20 odd feet of fuel lines at hi pressure".
>>
>> What is the difference if you have 20 feet of line instead of 5 to 10 feet of line?
>> That was my original question.
>>
>> Actually, if you have a low pressure pump filling a surge tank and then another pump from the surge tank to the carb (or TBI) you
>> would seem to have more fittings and more potential for leakage. It certainly isn't going to leak from the steel line no matter
> how
>> long it is. Only from the fittings.
>>
>> As to a line leaking more at 17 psi than at 7 psi, I agree with you. If you have a TBI system then you have to have a line
>> somewhere with 17 psi.
>> BUT, if you are using a carb at 7 psi then you would never install a pump with 17 psi so it seems to be a moot point.
>>
>> Emery Stora
>>
>> On Nov 3, 2013, at 10:28 AM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
>>
>>> Emery,
>>>
>>> It appears I have not expressed my point clearly.
>>>
>>> I'm not talking about the possibility of a leak I'm saying if there WAS a leak a fuel line pressurized to 17 psi it WOULD dump
>> more
>>> fuel out than a line pressurized to 7 psi.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Rob M.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Emery Stora
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 11:08 AM
>>> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Interesting item for vapor lock problems
>>>
>>> Never assume. That 70 psi had nothing to do with the pump max pressure. I just happened to turn my pressure regulator on my air
>>> compressor to that pressure and it held. I probably could have turned it to 100 and it likely would also hold. But I figured that
>> if
>>> it held at 70 that should be good enough.
>>>
>>> As to having pressure in a line that might leak if you have a connector at each end of a steel line whether the line is 10 foot
> or
>>> 20 foot would not seem to have any bearing on the possibility of a leak. It is the two fittings that are involved and you would
>>> still have two fittings on a shorter line.
>>>
>>> Emery
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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