Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » How cold is too cold for Rv'ing in a GMC
| How cold is too cold for Rv'ing in a GMC [message #227345] |
Mon, 28 October 2013 10:53  |
74CanyonLands
Messages: 81
Registered: September 2013
Location: Los Angeles
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So admittedly my RV experience is limited, but I am dying to get out there in my GMC and probably cannot wait until spring. I live in Socal so the weather here is acceptable for Rv'ing but if I wander how cold is too cold for largely stock GMC coach?
Also are there easy things I can do to make it a little better in the cold?
Thanks!
Curt Remington,
74 Canyonlands
Los Angeles, CA
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| Re: How cold is too cold for Rv'ing in a GMC [message #227352 is a reply to message #227345] |
Mon, 28 October 2013 11:19  |
jim kanomata
Messages: 257
Registered: March 2007
Location: fremont,ca
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Curt,
Main thing to know is that water will freeze at 32degrees.
However if it stays there only for couple hours, it will not damage things.
I keep the doors open where the water pipes are.
run the water periodically to prevent icing.
Turn up the heat higher inside.
Take a big hair dryer to help heat a line should it starts to frees.
There are special anti
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] How cold is too cold for Rv'ing in a GMC [message #227354 is a reply to message #227345] |
Mon, 28 October 2013 11:25 |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Curt,
We have used our coach all year long, but we stay by the coast. The propane heater warms us nicely and the factory insulation helps keep some of that warmth inside. I need to install new window treatments and boxing them in to a valance (sides, top, and bottom) will keep the chill of the windows at bay.
Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont. Ca
> On Oct 28, 2013, at 8:53 AM, Curt Remington <Mag4media@mac.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> So admittedly my RV experience is limited, but I am dying to get out there in my GMC and probably cannot wait until spring. I live in Socal so the weather here is acceptable for Rv'ing but if I wander how cold is too cold for largely stock GMC coach?
>
> Also are there easy things I can do to make it a little better in the cold?
>
> Thanks!
>
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: How cold is too cold for Rv'ing in a GMC [message #227357 is a reply to message #227345] |
Mon, 28 October 2013 11:35 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
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Admittedly, the "winters" here in Mesa, AZ are pretty mild, but I think the winterization I do would probably be adequate for anywhere in the US. Basically, I empty all the tanks (water, gray water, black water), and the hot water heater. I bought an adapter to hook up my air compressor to the water inlet, and use that to blow out any remaining water in the lines. I then pour a gallon of the (cheap) RV antifreeze down the drains and run the macerator just long enough to make sure some of it gets there.
I don't really like the idea of drinking even trace amounts of RV antifreeze, though lots of RVers have for years and it doesn't seem to have affected them. Errrrr, on second thought... 
It's really quite possible that I could just skip the winterization altogether, since the temperature would have to dip below freezing for a while before any damage would be done, but it's cheap, doesn't take long, and it's a whole lot easier to spend 30 minutes winterizing than it is to fix broken plumbing after it freezes.
Oh, I should add that when I DID travel into areas where a hard freeze was likely, I'd keep a 1500 watt space heater plugged in and running at all times, with the bathroom and cabinet doors (those containing plumbing) open. This won't protect plumbing exposed to cold underneath the coach, but if the gray and black water tanks are empty and there's some RV antifreeze in them (and the macerator), this should suffice. At least in my coach, which has the water tank fairly well protected from the elements under the rear bedroom.
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
[Updated on: Mon, 28 October 2013 11:38] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] How cold is too cold for Rv'ing in a GMC [message #227363 is a reply to message #227357] |
Mon, 28 October 2013 12:00 |
Emery Stora
Messages: 959
Registered: January 2011
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We have used our GMC in the winter over the years. Even in zero degree weather. When we had young kids we used to go to swim meets in Michigan and park in school parking lots for the night. Sometimes we had to scrape ice from the inside of the windows but our furnace kept us comfortable.
At times our holding tank would freeze and we couldn't dump it until it warmed up some.
We pump RV antifreeze into our water lines. It flushes right out when you fill with water and run some through the lines.
As to injesting trace amounts of propylene glycol you are just fooling yourself. Propylene glycol is commonly used in a lot of foods that you buy. Including ice cream, baked goods, etc. it is even used in toothpaste and canned or bottled sodas.
You better start reading food labels if you are afraid of propylene glycol. It is approved by the FDA as a food additive.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO
On Oct 28, 2013, at 10:35 AM, Mark <mark@habcycles.com> wrote:
>
>
> Admittedly, the "winters" here in Mesa, AZ are pretty mild, but I think the winterization I do would probably be adequate for anywhere in the US. Basically, I empty all the tanks (water, gray water, black water), and the hot water heater. I bought an adapter to hook up my air compressor to the water inlet, and use that to blow out any remaining water in the lines. I then pour a gallon of the (cheap) RV antifreeze down the drains and run the macerator just long enough to make sure some of it gets there.
>
> I don't really like the idea of drinking even trace amounts of RV antifreeze, though lots of RVers have for years and it doesn't seem to have affected them. Errrrr, on second thought... ;)
>
> It's really quite possible that I could just skip the winterization altogether, since the temperature would have to dip below freezing for a while before any damage would be done, but it's cheap, doesn't take long, and it's a whole lot easier to spend 30 minutes winterizing than it is to fix broken plumbing after it freezes.
> --
> Mark Hickey
> Mesa, AZ
> 1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: [GMCnet] How cold is too cold for Rv'ing in a GMC [message #227375 is a reply to message #227373] |
Mon, 28 October 2013 12:59 |
74CanyonLands
Messages: 81
Registered: September 2013
Location: Los Angeles
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You will need a way to get out of the snow once stuck, so I guess skis would work great!
| Robert Mueller wrote on Mon, 28 October 2013 10:50 |
Neil,
That fact has made me wonder why on earth Avion put a ski storage locker across the whole coach just behind the cockpit steps.
Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
-----Original Message-----
From: Neil Martin
Cold is one thing, traction is another. Front wheel drive GMC's do not do well on ice or snow.
As I learned.
The hard way.
--
Neil
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Curt Remington,
74 Canyonlands
Los Angeles, CA
[Updated on: Mon, 28 October 2013 13:00] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] How cold is too cold for Rv'ing in a GMC [message #227383 is a reply to message #227370] |
Mon, 28 October 2013 13:54 |
The JEWELERS
Messages: 49
Registered: August 2013
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"PG" they also are using it in the fake cigarettes that is mixed with the
nicotine to provide the electronic smoke that is inhaled
these as spreading fast as they are very popular today, I believe some are
in the process of FDA approval
I plan on using my GMC in the winter as a touring vehicle,
the Transmode has no bathroom but a original drinking fountain set-up with
2-tanks (new water and old water) , filled from a spout on outside. and a
drain underneath.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/1976-gmc-mobile-city-hall/p51359-gmc-transmode-sink.html
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/1976-gmc-mobile-city-hall/p51360-gmc-transmode-sink.html
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/1976-gmc-mobile-city-hall/p51364-gmc-transmode-sink.html
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/1976-gmc-mobile-city-hall/p51369-gmc-transmode-sink.html
Will try to plan a trip here in the next few weeks from Minneapolis to
Chicago area, and when i'm there see if I can get my windshields replaced.
will keep the GMC group updated and hope I don't get in the NEWS " GMC
motorhome dug out of snow bank " ;-)
David
1976 GMC Transmode "Mobile city hall"
On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 12:25 PM, Tim Conway <mactac735@mac.com> wrote:
>
> On Oct 28, 2013, at 1:00 PM, Emery Stora wrote:
>
> > Propylene glycol is commonly used in a lot of foods that you buy.
> Including ice cream, baked goods, etc. it is even used in toothpaste and
> canned or bottled sodas.
>
>
> Children's Ice Cream, Mandrake!?!*
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5eraQWCYzQ
>
>
> * 2:35
>
> Tim Conway
> LI NY 78 PB
>
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--
David M. Przetycki
The Jewelers
612-788-6000
612-782-9646 Fax
Great.Jewelers@gmail.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] How cold is too cold for Rv'ing in a GMC [message #227385 is a reply to message #227363] |
Mon, 28 October 2013 13:57 |
Jim Miller
Messages: 501
Registered: March 2008
Karma: 10
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On Oct 28, 2013, at 1:00 PM, Emery Stora wrote:
> Propylene glycol is commonly used in a lot of foods that you buy. Including ice cream, baked goods, etc. it is even used in toothpaste and canned or bottled sodas.
It is a main constituent of the fluid that is used in some electronic cigarette refills and is also the fluid used in certain theatrical fog machines.
From experience I have found that in at least some concentration it can support or perhaps even encourage microbial growth. The first year I owned the GMC I flushed the system with RV antifreeze and then drained the contents of the hot water tank back into jugs for re-use the following year. It did not take very long for visible mold to develop in those jugs.
I now have a bypass kit on the hot water tank but still wonder what antifreeze would be doing in the water lines and other places in the potable water system that I cannot easily inspect.
For what its worth the 1977 operator's manual specifies that RV antifreeze is to be used ONLY in the plumbing traps and never in the fresh water system. On page 110 it says "CAUTION Never add RV antifreeze to the living area water tank. Not only would this be wasted expense in winterizing the vehicle but this will result in cracking and ultimate failure of the living area water tank". Elsewhere in the manual it describes opening petcocks and using compressed air to get the water out of the system for winterization rather than an antifreeze purge.
--Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza II
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH
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Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza II
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH
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| Re: How cold is too cold for Rv'ing in a GMC [message #227387 is a reply to message #227345] |
Mon, 28 October 2013 14:05 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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| 74CanyonLands wrote on Mon, 28 October 2013 08:53 |
So admittedly my RV experience is limited, but I am dying to get out there in my GMC and probably cannot wait until spring. I live in Socal so the weather here is acceptable for Rv'ing but if I wander how cold is too cold for largely stock GMC coach?
Also are there easy things I can do to make it a little better in the cold?
Thanks!
|
Curt,
I live in Tucson, AZ. and the main time of year we use our coach is through the winter. I have never 'winterized' it in the five winters we have owned it. Even when the low temps went down into the low 20s a few nights, a couple of years ago, I just plugged the coach in and ran a little cube heater inside.
The first time we went to Quartzsite in January, I was concerned about the potential cold. I took a cue from my friend Dan Gregg, and cut some pieces of "Reflectex" (bubble wrap type of reflective insulation) to fit the windows. I also made a couple of spring rods out of aluminum tubing and dowel rods to keep it in. It did help keep the heat in at night. We were dry camping in night time temperatures near freezing and were very cozy in the "Travasack" at night. We did not run the furnace in order to conserve out house batteries.
The route you described should not be an issue as long as you stay at lower elevations. You never know though, sometimes it can get pretty cold all of a sudden. As Emery stated, your holding tank may freeze and you won't be able to dump until it thaws out. IIRC, that happened to Gary Berry a few years ago and caused him some inconvenience. Dan Gregg has had issues with his macerator freezing too. A light under the coach might prevent that if you have electrical hook-ups.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: How cold is too cold for Rv'ing in a GMC [message #227389 is a reply to message #227364] |
Mon, 28 October 2013 14:19 |
jim kanomata
Messages: 257
Registered: March 2007
Location: fremont,ca
Karma: 12
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in mind that the furnace does not like to fire up if the voltage is low..
I WILL START THE GENERATOR OR THE ENGINE AND GET THE BATTERY UP WHEN IT DOES NOT WANT TO
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: How cold is too cold for Rv'ing in a GMC [message #227396 is a reply to message #227345] |
Mon, 28 October 2013 15:05 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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I have used mine in below zero. right around 0 degrees.
I do not use the water systems at that. I just use it as a place to eat, sleep, and get out of the cold. Very comfortable.
I am getting ready to do that again here on the 8th, and will again use mine into December in Minnesota.
I can get a good full 2 weekends out of my full propane tank running the furnace to keep the inside of the GMC around 65-70 degrees when it is between 0 and 30 degrees out. I usually fill it up before I go out, I camp out friday night-sunday, two weekends. bring it home for a few weeks, then fill the propane up before bringing it out again for a weekend or two after thanksgiving.
I have brought 20 pound propane tanks along, and been able to run a weekend on one of those.
My only concern, even though others said they would, I would not want to be driving my GMC on icy or snow covered roads.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: [GMCnet] How cold is too cold for Rv'ing in a GMC [message #227399 is a reply to message #227385] |
Mon, 28 October 2013 15:31 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Jim
I don't see anywhere in the manual where it "specifies that RV antifreeze is to be used ONLY in the plumbing traps and never in the fresh water system". Can you give me a page number for that? I don't think it actually says that anywhere in the 1977 Owner's Manual.
I agree that it says not to add it to the RV water tank. However when people put it into their water lines they don't add it to the water tank. One should get a tee with a valve and pump it directly into the pump and to the water lines. It would indeed be a wasted expense to put it directly into the water tank.
If have been using it in my water lines for 32 years not without any problems.
Emery Stora
On Oct 28, 2013, at 12:57 PM, Jim Miller wrote:
> On Oct 28, 2013, at 1:00 PM, Emery Stora wrote:
>
>> Propylene glycol is commonly used in a lot of foods that you buy. Including ice cream, baked goods, etc. it is even used in toothpaste and canned or bottled sodas.
>
> It is a main constituent of the fluid that is used in some electronic cigarette refills and is also the fluid used in certain theatrical fog machines.
>
> From experience I have found that in at least some concentration it can support or perhaps even encourage microbial growth. The first year I owned the GMC I flushed the system with RV antifreeze and then drained the contents of the hot water tank back into jugs for re-use the following year. It did not take very long for visible mold to develop in those jugs.
>
> I now have a bypass kit on the hot water tank but still wonder what antifreeze would be doing in the water lines and other places in the potable water system that I cannot easily inspect.
>
> For what its worth the 1977 operator's manual specifies that RV antifreeze is to be used ONLY in the plumbing traps and never in the fresh water system. On page 110 it says "CAUTION Never add RV antifreeze to the living area water tank. Not only would this be wasted expense in winterizing the vehicle but this will result in cracking and ultimate failure of the living area water tank". Elsewhere in the manual it describes opening petcocks and using compressed air to get the water out of the system for winterization rather than an antifreeze purge.
>
> --Jim Miller
> 1977 Eleganza II
> 1977 Royale
> Hamilton, OH
>
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] How cold is too cold for Rv'ing in a GMC [message #227404 is a reply to message #227399] |
Mon, 28 October 2013 15:48 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
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That should have said "32 years now without any problems".
I also use less than a gallon to winterize including putting about a cup into the shower trap and I can winterize in about 10 minutes.
Emery Stora
On Oct 28, 2013, at 2:31 PM, Emery Stora wrote:
> Jim
>
> I don't see anywhere in the manual where it "specifies that RV antifreeze is to be used ONLY in the plumbing traps and never in the fresh water system". Can you give me a page number for that? I don't think it actually says that anywhere in the 1977 Owner's Manual.
>
> I agree that it says not to add it to the RV water tank. However when people put it into their water lines they don't add it to the water tank. One should get a tee with a valve and pump it directly into the pump and to the water lines. It would indeed be a wasted expense to put it directly into the water tank.
>
> If have been using it in my water lines for 32 years not without any problems.
>
> Emery Stora
>
> On Oct 28, 2013, at 12:57 PM, Jim Miller wrote:
>
>> On Oct 28, 2013, at 1:00 PM, Emery Stora wrote:
>>
>>> Propylene glycol is commonly used in a lot of foods that you buy. Including ice cream, baked goods, etc. it is even used in toothpaste and canned or bottled sodas.
>>
>> It is a main constituent of the fluid that is used in some electronic cigarette refills and is also the fluid used in certain theatrical fog machines.
>>
>> From experience I have found that in at least some concentration it can support or perhaps even encourage microbial growth. The first year I owned the GMC I flushed the system with RV antifreeze and then drained the contents of the hot water tank back into jugs for re-use the following year. It did not take very long for visible mold to develop in those jugs.
>>
>> I now have a bypass kit on the hot water tank but still wonder what antifreeze would be doing in the water lines and other places in the potable water system that I cannot easily inspect.
>>
>> For what its worth the 1977 operator's manual specifies that RV antifreeze is to be used ONLY in the plumbing traps and never in the fresh water system. On page 110 it says "CAUTION Never add RV antifreeze to the living area water tank. Not only would this be wasted expense in winterizing the vehicle but this will result in cracking and ultimate failure of the living area water tank". Elsewhere in the manual it describes opening petcocks and using compressed air to get the water out of the system for winterization rather than an antifreeze purge.
>>
>> --Jim Miller
>> 1977 Eleganza II
>> 1977 Royale
>> Hamilton, OH
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: [GMCnet] How cold is too cold for Rv'ing in a GMC [message #227432 is a reply to message #227399] |
Mon, 28 October 2013 18:04 |
Jim Miller
Messages: 501
Registered: March 2008
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On Oct 28, 2013, at 4:31 PM, Emery Stora wrote:
> don't see anywhere in the manual where it "specifies that RV antifreeze is to be used ONLY in the plumbing traps and never in the fresh water system". Can you give me a page number for that? I don't think it actually says that anywhere in the 1977 Owner's Manual.
Hi Emery,
The Caution I was referring to is on the upper right corner of page 110.
> I agree that it says not to add it to the RV water tank.
Going only by procedures in the manual..how else would you get it in? There is no mention of putting it in via a tee or any other means.
> However when people put it into their water lines they don't add it to the water tank. One should get a tee with a valve and pump it directly into the pump and to the water lines. It would indeed be a wasted expense to put it directly into the water tank.
I completely agree with you that would be a good way to do it however the manual doesn't mention that procedure; it tells the owner to open petcocks and use compressed air. I can find nothing in the manual that refers to putting antifreeze in the potable system.
--Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza II
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH
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Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza II
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH
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| Re: How cold is too cold for Rv'ing in a GMC [message #227453 is a reply to message #227345] |
Mon, 28 October 2013 19:24 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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now I am no expert. But living in MN I go by a couple rules:
never count on RV antifreeze working properly if it is mixed with water.
RV antifreeze will freeze. it actually does not take much to freeze it(where I live i have seen jugs froze around 0 degrees out,)). but it does not expand when it freezes...
so I personally use automotive antifreeze to run it into my macerator, for the winter, because I cannot guarantee that it is 100% antifreeze in my holding tank/macerator plumbing.
I do not know for sure about mixing water and RV antifreeze other then I know RV antifreeze is forbidden in our construction water pumps and the like.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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