Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Suburban Furnace
| Suburban Furnace [message #227263] |
Sun, 27 October 2013 18:58  |
Steve
Messages: 506
Registered: September 2013
Location: East Greenville, Pa
Karma: 1
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I finally had a chance to work on the Suburban furnace on my 78 Royale. I have researched and read various posts here so I think I am on the right track but would appreciate any insights.
I believe the sequence for the furnace firing goes something like this:
1. Thermostat calls for heat and activates the blower fan motor.
2. Fan blowing starts time delay before electronic ignition is energized to create spark
3. Fan blowing also moves "sail switch" to complete a circuit and allow the gas valve to open.
In testing mine, the thermostat works, blower motor works, and I am able to confirm the spark from the electronic ignition as I can see it through the sight glass. It is not lighting so I have suspected the electric gas control valve?
I took the gas line off and confirmed that I am getting propane to it, but I do not smell any unburned propane coming out the vent, again leading me to believe that the gas control valve is not opening?
Here is my specific question. Does a fault with the sail switch prevent the gas valve from opening, or does the sail switch prevent electronic ignition? Since I have ignition, does that mean the sail switch is ok?
I have done a good cleaning of the blower assembly and vents. The blower was clogged with lint and junk. The vents were clogged with the typical bee nets. My initial check inside the burner looked ok. It did not seem to be clogged and not much rust. I will open it up more next chance I get. Although it is a no no to "hot wire" the sail switch I will probably do that briefly for testing purposes only.
Does anyone have knowledge or experience with the gas control valves?
I also realize that the valve could be good and the circuit board is bad.
1978 GMC Royal
Eastern Pennslyvania
1968 Chevrolet C20 396 Camper Special
1969 Chevrolet C20 Camper Special
1985 Buick Electra Park Avenue
1992 Camaro 25th Anniversary Heretage Edition Black
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| Re: Suburban Furnace [message #227269 is a reply to message #227263] |
Sun, 27 October 2013 19:46  |
Otterwan
Messages: 946
Registered: July 2013
Location: Lynnwood (north of Seattl...
Karma: 0
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My 1976 Royale also has a manual valve in the gas line. On mine it is at the upper right of the furnace, right where the gas line enters. It is a 1/4" brass rod sticking out perpendicular to the gas line, and you turn it parallel to gas line to turn it on
1977 Birchaven, Lynnwood WA - "We may not be able to stop all evil in the world, but I know that how we treat one another is entirely up to us."
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| Re: Suburban Furnace [message #227270 is a reply to message #227263] |
Sun, 27 October 2013 19:59 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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My coach has a Suburban furnace of 1983 vintage. It used to function erratically .when it was cold it wouldn't fire and the dang thing blew cold air till the battery ran down. When I would check it out it would work ok. I finally found that when it was cold the gas valve would stick closed. I took the valve out took the top of the valve and cleaned the internal parts with alcohol and coated the flapper with graphite. That was years ago and it has worked fine since then. If you do this make sure the valve doesn't leak when you put it back together. Put a volt meter on the valve terminals it should have 12 volts when the spark is clicking if so it is probably stuck closed.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: Suburban Furnace [message #227272 is a reply to message #227269] |
Sun, 27 October 2013 20:04 |
Steve
Messages: 506
Registered: September 2013
Location: East Greenville, Pa
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Otterwan,
Yes, mine also has a similar manual shut off valve. I was able to confirm that that valve is in the open position. I am talking about the automatic gas valve that is further down the gas line inside the furnace.
Thanks for confirming the correct "on position" of the manual valve.
1978 GMC Royal
Eastern Pennslyvania
1968 Chevrolet C20 396 Camper Special
1969 Chevrolet C20 Camper Special
1985 Buick Electra Park Avenue
1992 Camaro 25th Anniversary Heretage Edition Black
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| Re: Suburban Furnace [message #227273 is a reply to message #227270] |
Sun, 27 October 2013 20:11 |
Steve
Messages: 506
Registered: September 2013
Location: East Greenville, Pa
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Roy1,
Thanks for the info on the sticking valve. It really seems that may be my problem. I will probably try your cleaning method to see if that will work, although I understand that the valves are not intended to be serviceable. I think they are available as a replacement part. I would really like to get the furnace working. It seems like I am so close. I may not be able to work on it again for a couple of weeks, but I will try it and let you know.
1978 GMC Royal
Eastern Pennslyvania
1968 Chevrolet C20 396 Camper Special
1969 Chevrolet C20 Camper Special
1985 Buick Electra Park Avenue
1992 Camaro 25th Anniversary Heretage Edition Black
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| Re: Suburban Furnace [message #227274 is a reply to message #227273] |
Sun, 27 October 2013 20:20 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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You are correct they don't want us taking the valve apart for fear it could leak. I used to repair commercial heat and air for a living so it doesn't faze me. I just make sure there are no leaks when I am done.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: Suburban Furnace [message #227275 is a reply to message #227263] |
Sun, 27 October 2013 20:20 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Check for 12v at the valve before ripping in to it. If no 12, meter continuity at the sail. If there are push on connectors check for oxidation
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Suburban Furnace [message #227279 is a reply to message #227275] |
Sun, 27 October 2013 20:38 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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I think you can normally hear the solenoid valve operate when voltage is
applied to it.
Sorta related peculiar thing happened a few days ago: A box arrived from
Suburban, addressed to me, at this address, containing a dual coil solenoid
valve. The enclosed invoice says "No Charge Warranty Replacement".
As far as I know, I've never had ANY communication with that company. The
only thing I can figure is that they must have had a recall on the furnace
in the '97 Safari I sold in '06 and somehow got my information -- but not
the new owner's.
I guess I'd better contact the company and see if I need to forward this to
the new owner.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 9:20 PM, John R. Lebetski <gransport@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> Check for 12v at the valve before ripping in to it. If no 12, meter
> continuity at the sail. If there are push on connectors check for oxidation
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Suburban Furnace [message #227282 is a reply to message #227279] |
Sun, 27 October 2013 20:51 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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| Ken Henderson wrote on Sun, 27 October 2013 18:38 |
I think you can normally hear the solenoid valve operate when voltage is
applied to it.
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Some valves this may be possible but the valve on my Surburban doesn't have a magnetic solenoid it is a warp type valve.that is pretty quiet. The name of the game is if there is power on the valve in the few seconds the spark is clicking and no flame in the firebox the valve is almost certainly burnt out or stuck closed.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Suburban Furnace [message #227283 is a reply to message #227279] |
Sun, 27 October 2013 20:53 |
Steve
Messages: 506
Registered: September 2013
Location: East Greenville, Pa
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Ken, what would the valve sound like. Vibration? Buzzing? I did not hear anything that I would recognize as a valve opening. I will check for 12 volts at the valve as others have suggested.
1978 GMC Royal
Eastern Pennslyvania
1968 Chevrolet C20 396 Camper Special
1969 Chevrolet C20 Camper Special
1985 Buick Electra Park Avenue
1992 Camaro 25th Anniversary Heretage Edition Black
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| Re: [GMCnet] Suburban Furnace [message #227285 is a reply to message #227273] |
Sun, 27 October 2013 20:51 |
Kosier
Messages: 834
Registered: February 2008
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Steve,
Since you have a '78, that should be a DuoTherm. There is a square solenoid
gas valve next to the gas metering device. Pull the wire off one side and
check continuity through the solenoid. Mine was bad. There is no direct
replacement available that I could find. I had people try to sell me
something that "should" work with a little revamping. I don't think so! We
have two '77s, so I robbed the other coach. Success! I'm still looking for
a solenoid for a DuoTherm.
Gary Kosier
77 EL2& PB
53 Lincoln Capri
83-92 S-10, S-15 & Firebird conglomerate
Newark, Ohio
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Adams
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2013 9:11 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Suburban Furnace
Roy1,
Thanks for the info on the sticking valve. It really seems that may be my
problem. I will probably try your cleaning method to see if that will work,
although I understand that the valves are not intended to be serviceable. I
think they are available as a replacement part. I would really like to get
the furnace working. It seems like I am so close. I may not be able to
work on it again for a couple of weeks, but I will try it and let you know.
--
1978 GMC Royal
1968 Chevrolet C20 396 Camper Special
1969 Chevrolet C20 Camper Special
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| Re: [GMCnet] Suburban Furnace [message #227288 is a reply to message #227283] |
Sun, 27 October 2013 21:25 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Steve,
The solenoid gas valves I've had emitted a faint click when activated.
Apparently, from those with more gas experience, not all valves do that.
But if it does click, I'd check further before opening it.
Ken H.
On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 9:53 PM, Steve Adams <sjadams@ptd.net> wrote:
>
>
> Ken, what would the valve sound like. Vibration? Buzzing? I did not hear
> anything that I would recognize as a valve opening. I will check for 12
> volts at the valve as others have suggested.
> --
> 1978 GMC Royal
> 1968 Chevrolet C20 396 Camper Special
> 1969 Chevrolet C20 Camper Special
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Suburban Furnace [message #227298 is a reply to message #227285] |
Sun, 27 October 2013 22:42 |
Emery Stora
Messages: 959
Registered: January 2011
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Gary
What model Duotherm do you have?
Emery Stora
On Oct 27, 2013, at 7:51 PM, Kosier <gkosier@roadrunner.com> wrote:
> Steve,
>
> Since you have a '78, that should be a DuoTherm. There is a square solenoid
> gas valve next to the gas metering device. Pull the wire off one side and
> check continuity through the solenoid. Mine was bad. There is no direct
> replacement available that I could find. I had people try to sell me
> something that "should" work with a little revamping. I don't think so! We
> have two '77s, so I robbed the other coach. Success! I'm still looking for
> a solenoid for a DuoTherm.
>
> Gary Kosier
> 77 EL2& PB
> 53 Lincoln Capri
> 83-92 S-10, S-15 & Firebird conglomerate
> Newark, Ohio
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Adams
> Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2013 9:11 PM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Suburban Furnace
>
>
>
> Roy1,
> Thanks for the info on the sticking valve. It really seems that may be my
> problem. I will probably try your cleaning method to see if that will work,
> although I understand that the valves are not intended to be serviceable. I
> think they are available as a replacement part. I would really like to get
> the furnace working. It seems like I am so close. I may not be able to
> work on it again for a couple of weeks, but I will try it and let you know.
> --
> 1978 GMC Royal
> 1968 Chevrolet C20 396 Camper Special
> 1969 Chevrolet C20 Camper Special
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Suburban Furnace [message #227465 is a reply to message #227298] |
Mon, 28 October 2013 20:07 |
Kosier
Messages: 834
Registered: February 2008
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Emery,
We have two mid-year '77s, both having the same furnace.
I have the manual for the furnace. Unfortunately, its in the coach,
which is inside the shop. Due to the health problems I'm having,
my wife does not allow me to go out to the shop. Doesn't seem
to trust me. When we get back tomorrow, I'll try to get her to
get the manual. Anything else you need?
Gary Kosier
77EL2 & 77PB wCad 500
Newark, Oh
-----Original Message-----
From: Emery Stora
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2013 11:42 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Suburban Furnace
Gary
What model Duotherm do you have?
Emery Stora
On Oct 27, 2013, at 7:51 PM, Kosier <gkosier@roadrunner.com> wrote:
> Steve,
>
> Since you have a '78, that should be a DuoTherm. There is a square
> solenoid
> gas valve next to the gas metering device. Pull the wire off one side and
> check continuity through the solenoid. Mine was bad. There is no direct
> replacement available that I could find. I had people try to sell me
> something that "should" work with a little revamping. I don't think so!
> We
> have two '77s, so I robbed the other coach. Success! I'm still looking
> for
> a solenoid for a DuoTherm.
>
> Gary Kosier
> 77 EL2& PB
> 53 Lincoln Capri
> 83-92 S-10, S-15 & Firebird conglomerate
> Newark, Ohio
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Adams
> Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2013 9:11 PM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Suburban Furnace
>
>
>
> Roy1,
> Thanks for the info on the sticking valve. It really seems that may be my
> problem. I will probably try your cleaning method to see if that will
> work,
> although I understand that the valves are not intended to be serviceable.
> I
> think they are available as a replacement part. I would really like to
> get
> the furnace working. It seems like I am so close. I may not be able to
> work on it again for a couple of weeks, but I will try it and let you
> know.
> --
> 1978 GMC Royal
> 1968 Chevrolet C20 396 Camper Special
> 1969 Chevrolet C20 Camper Special
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Suburban Furnace [message #227637 is a reply to message #227298] |
Tue, 29 October 2013 18:05 |
Kosier
Messages: 834
Registered: February 2008
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Emery,
A note in the folder says it's a 65930-926. It says the solenoid has a
part # of 1317172008. Since I could find no direct replacement, I will
pull it apart someday and attempt to fix or replace the coil.
Gary Kosier
-----Original Message-----
From: Emery Stora
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2013 11:42 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Suburban Furnace
Gary
What model Duotherm do you have?
Emery Stora
On Oct 27, 2013, at 7:51 PM, Kosier <gkosier@roadrunner.com> wrote:
> Steve,
>
> Since you have a '78, that should be a DuoTherm. There is a square
> solenoid
> gas valve next to the gas metering device. Pull the wire off one side and
> check continuity through the solenoid. Mine was bad. There is no direct
> replacement available that I could find. I had people try to sell me
> something that "should" work with a little revamping. I don't think so!
> We
> have two '77s, so I robbed the other coach. Success! I'm still looking
> for
> a solenoid for a DuoTherm.
>
> Gary Kosier
> 77 EL2& PB
> 53 Lincoln Capri
> 83-92 S-10, S-15 & Firebird conglomerate
> Newark, Ohio
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Adams
> Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2013 9:11 PM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Suburban Furnace
>
>
>
> Roy1,
> Thanks for the info on the sticking valve. It really seems that may be my
> problem. I will probably try your cleaning method to see if that will
> work,
> although I understand that the valves are not intended to be serviceable.
> I
> think they are available as a replacement part. I would really like to
> get
> the furnace working. It seems like I am so close. I may not be able to
> work on it again for a couple of weeks, but I will try it and let you
> know.
> --
> 1978 GMC Royal
> 1968 Chevrolet C20 396 Camper Special
> 1969 Chevrolet C20 Camper Special
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Suburban Furnace [message #227679 is a reply to message #227637] |
Wed, 30 October 2013 00:25 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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Hi Gary
Check here:
http://www.anyrvparts.com/ProductDetail.asp?PID=11526&SID=47&DID=52&CID=197 $104.17
OR HERE:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Duo-Therm-Furnace-Heater-Control-Valve-1317172008-/230990429494 $84.49
or here
http://www.sportslinkup.com/shop/0-Duo-therm-6.html 84.49
With more looking I might find it cheaper.
Emery Stora
On Oct 29, 2013, at 5:05 PM, Kosier <gkosier@roadrunner.com> wrote:
> Emery,
>
> A note in the folder says it's a 65930-926. It says the solenoid has a
> part # of 1317172008. Since I could find no direct replacement, I will
> pull it apart someday and attempt to fix or replace the coil.
>
> Gary Kosier
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Emery Stora
> Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2013 11:42 PM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Suburban Furnace
>
> Gary
>
> What model Duotherm do you have?
>
> Emery Stora
>
> On Oct 27, 2013, at 7:51 PM, Kosier <gkosier@roadrunner.com> wrote:
>
>> Steve,
>>
>> Since you have a '78, that should be a DuoTherm. There is a square
>> solenoid
>> gas valve next to the gas metering device. Pull the wire off one side and
>> check continuity through the solenoid. Mine was bad. There is no direct
>> replacement available that I could find. I had people try to sell me
>> something that "should" work with a little revamping. I don't think so!
>> We
>> have two '77s, so I robbed the other coach. Success! I'm still looking
>> for
>> a solenoid for a DuoTherm.
>>
>> Gary Kosier
>> 77 EL2& PB
>> 53 Lincoln Capri
>> 83-92 S-10, S-15 & Firebird conglomerate
>> Newark, Ohio
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Steve Adams
>> Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2013 9:11 PM
>> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Suburban Furnace
>>
>>
>>
>> Roy1,
>> Thanks for the info on the sticking valve. It really seems that may be my
>> problem. I will probably try your cleaning method to see if that will
>> work,
>> although I understand that the valves are not intended to be serviceable.
>> I
>> think they are available as a replacement part. I would really like to
>> get
>> the furnace working. It seems like I am so close. I may not be able to
>> work on it again for a couple of weeks, but I will try it and let you
>> know.
>> --
>> 1978 GMC Royal
>> 1968 Chevrolet C20 396 Camper Special
>> 1969 Chevrolet C20 Camper Special
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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| Re: Suburban Furnace [message #227762 is a reply to message #227263] |
Wed, 30 October 2013 14:42 |
Wander Inn
Messages: 100
Registered: January 2010
Location: Phoenix Az.
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I would check the thermocouple, mine was not in the
flame, ajusted and it worked fine.
Mike
Mike & Chris Hughes
1977 Kingsley
Phoenix, Az.
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