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| Engine oil cooler capacity [message #223268] |
Fri, 20 September 2013 22:27  |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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HI All:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/engine-failure/p50891-engine-bearing-failure.html
I've had an engine bearing failure, (More on this later) and as part of repairing the damage I am not going to use the cooler in the radiator. I understand it is impossible to clean the cooler enough to be confidant that it will not release a pile of metal chips, filings bearing material crude. I've had conversations with Radiator repair outfits and they concure that the best solution would be to remove the tank and replace the cooler. (I know the oil from the cooler goes into the filter, However Part of the original cascading failure was plugging of the filter and bypass taking place)
BUT!! They do not know what cooler was in the radiator and could not confirm that they could get one. Hense we could take the Rad apart only to find it unrepairable.
The cost and problems dictates that I use an after-market engine cooler in front of the radiator.
I have no Idea what the BTU heat capacity of the cooler in the radiator is so having difficulty knowing what capacity The add-on cooler should be. I'm looking at a Hayden 1268 - 30,000BTU right now.
Anyone KNOW what I should get??
Best regards
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine oil cooler capacity [message #223280 is a reply to message #223268] |
Sat, 21 September 2013 03:10  |
Emery Stora
Messages: 959
Registered: January 2011
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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John
When I have had an engine rebuild the shop had a machine specifically designed to flush the cooler in the radiator. I had no problems with anything after they cleaned it.
I believe that cooler is a fairly simple loop and easily flushed and cleaned.
Duck Paterson will be giving his engine rebuilding seminar here at Branson so I'll ask him.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CI
On Sep 20, 2013, at 10:27 PM, John Heslinga <rbeeper@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> HI All:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/engine-failure/p50891-engine-bearing-failure.html
>
> I've had an engine bearing failure, (More on this later) and as part of repairing the damage I am not going to use the cooler in the radiator. I understand it is impossible to clean the cooler enough to be confidant that it will not release a pile of metal chips, filings bearing material crude. I've had conversations with Radiator repair outfits and they concure that the best solution would be to remove the tank and replace the cooler. (I know the oil from the cooler goes into the filter, However Part of the original cascading failure was plugging of the filter and bypass taking place)
>
> BUT!! They do not know what cooler was in the radiator and could not confirm that they could get one. Hense we could take the Rad apart only to find it unrepairable.
>
> The cost and problems dictates that I use an after-market engine cooler in front of the radiator.
>
> I have no Idea what the BTU heat capacity of the cooler in the radiator is so having difficulty knowing what capacity The add-on cooler should be. I'm looking at a Hayden 1268 - 30,000BTU right now.
>
> Anyone KNOW what I should get??
>
> Best regards
> --
> John and Cathie Heslinga
> 1974 Canyonlands 260
> TC4W "Too Cool For Words"
> Retirement Projects Galore
> Edmonton, Alberta
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine oil cooler capacity [message #223282 is a reply to message #223280] |
Sat, 21 September 2013 03:20 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Emery,
This is the reason I am presenting "Oil Flow Path of 403 and 455 Oldsmobile Powered GMC.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Emery Stora
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 3:11 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Engine oil cooler capacity
John
When I have had an engine rebuild the shop had a machine specifically designed to flush the cooler in the radiator. I had no
problems with anything after they cleaned it.
I believe that cooler is a fairly simple loop and easily flushed and cleaned.
Duck Paterson will be giving his engine rebuilding seminar here at Branson so I'll ask him.
Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CI
On Sep 20, 2013, at 10:27 PM, John Heslinga <rbeeper@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> HI All:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/engine-failure/p50891-engine-bearing-failure.html
>
> I've had an engine bearing failure, (More on this later) and as part of repairing the damage I am not going to use the cooler in
the radiator. I understand it is impossible to clean the cooler enough to be confidant that it will not release a pile of metal
chips, filings bearing material crude. I've had conversations with Radiator repair outfits and they concure that the best solution
would be to remove the tank and replace the cooler. (I know the oil from the cooler goes into the filter, However Part of the
original cascading failure was plugging of the filter and bypass taking place)
>
> BUT!! They do not know what cooler was in the radiator and could not confirm that they could get one. Hense we could take the Rad
apart only to find it unrepairable.
>
> The cost and problems dictates that I use an after-market engine cooler in front of the radiator.
>
> I have no Idea what the BTU heat capacity of the cooler in the radiator is so having difficulty knowing what capacity The add-on
cooler should be. I'm looking at a Hayden 1268 - 30,000BTU right now.
>
> Anyone KNOW what I should get??
>
> Best regards
> --
> John and Cathie Heslinga
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine oil cooler capacity [message #223296 is a reply to message #223282] |
Sat, 21 September 2013 10:32 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Thanks Emery
I would appreciate your asking the question.
If I can confirm that it is only a simple loop than a flushing with solvents and then hot soapy water should be sufficient. The radiator shops did not know. However it looks like I would have to cobble together the pump and bucket to do the job at home. No problem really I would even put a filter in the setup. If it is a simple loop then a "snake" could be used too. I could even run the pressure washer on soap. I'll have a closer look. All that being said, the aux cooler is pretty easy to do.
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine oil cooler capacity [message #223297 is a reply to message #223296] |
Sat, 21 September 2013 10:53 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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Sir: I have had some sperience in flushing metal. Mostly from Harley engines & oil tanks when the cam rolles go bad and from big engines. I recommend using "Greased Lightning". It works wonders. spray it on, let it soak, spray it off. Rinses the metal out with everstuff else. On oil tanks I use nuts and washers to agitate. After cleaning you will need to oil immediately as it will allow the metal to rust. Really clean.
| John Heslinga wrote on Sat, 21 September 2013 11:32 |
Thanks Emery
I would appreciate your asking the question.
If I can confirm that it is only a simple loop than a flushing with solvents and then hot soapy water should be sufficient. The radiator shops did not know. However it looks like I would have to cobble together the pump and bucket to do the job at home. No problem really I would even put a filter in the setup. If it is a simple loop then a "snake" could be used too. I could even run the pressure washer on soap. I'll have a closer look. All that being said, the aux cooler is pretty easy to do.
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C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: [GMCnet] Engine oil cooler capacity [message #223304 is a reply to message #223300] |
Sat, 21 September 2013 11:49 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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"No Big Deal". Music to my ears!!!!
Re:| Quote: |
recommend using "Greased Lightning". It works wonders. spray it on, let it soak, spray it off.
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And
| Quote: |
. a pipe from the top connector to the bottom connector in the oem rad. No big deal
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I'm happy now! Thanks guys. Look like I can save a couple hundred bucks!!
Best regards
John
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: Engine oil cooler capacity [message #223305 is a reply to message #223268] |
Sat, 21 September 2013 12:26 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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I assume you have the stock radiator? I have the aluminum radiator and I'm pretty certain the oil doesn't just flow easily in and out with out any diversions. When I spun a bearing I removed the radiator and pumped gas thru the cooler in a loop with an electric fuel pump and a glass filter with a paper element that could be disassembled and cleaned. rotating the radiator in different positions and tapping on the radiator also.I ran that gas thru the cooler for almost a week 8 hours a day before it didn't show any more filings. Then I ran it another day to be sure. I also incorporate a second external cooler too keep the oil cooler as we have a lot of mountain driving here and we tow.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: Engine oil cooler capacity [message #223345 is a reply to message #223305] |
Sat, 21 September 2013 23:16 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Hi Roy:
What size aux engine cooler did you install??
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: Engine oil cooler capacity [message #223399 is a reply to message #223345] |
Sun, 22 September 2013 23:07 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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| John Heslinga wrote on Sat, 21 September 2013 21:16 |
Hi Roy:
What size aux engine cooler did you install??
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It is an older rapid cool 6"by 12" copper tube. If I were in your position I would forego the one in the radiator as I don't feel it is worth messing with. I would likely get a nice sized stacked coil unit from a place like summit racing . It would likely cool better then the stock radiator one and it won't add as much heat too the coolant .if you don't want to locate in front of the lower radiator you can get a remote type with its own fan. I mounted mine in front of the lower radiator . You would also need to fabricate some piping to tie it to the stainless oil lines . If you mount it here I would locate it a few inches or so in front of the radiator so it doesn't restrict air flow.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: Engine oil cooler capacity [message #223400 is a reply to message #223268] |
Sun, 22 September 2013 23:08 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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OH NO  I,ve confirmed what I have for a oil heat exchanger in my stock Radiator. (Maybe not stock, It was replaced 8 years ago)
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/engine-failure/p51033-oil-cooler-in-radiator.html
My Oil cooler in the radiator is a much more complex network of folded and cut baffles to transfer heat to the coolant. Not a Simple heat exchanger tube.
Maybe this is about 30,000 BTU as a liquid to liquid Heat exchanger?? However the coolant temperature is pretty hot so the temp difference is not very wide making it less efficient.
Interesting that It would also do a rough job of screening the oil before it got to the filter.
(I wonder how much gunk this screened out ??)
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: Engine oil cooler capacity [message #223401 is a reply to message #223400] |
Sun, 22 September 2013 23:28 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Roy
re
| Quote: |
It is an older rapid cool 6"by 12" copper tube. If I were in your position I would forego the one in the radiator as I don't feel it is worth messing with. I would likely get a nice sized stacked coil unit from a place like summit racing . It would likely cool better then the stock radiator one and it won't add as much heat too the coolant .if you don't want to locate in front of the lower radiator you can get a remote type with its own fan. I mounted mine in front of the lower radiator . You would also need to fabricate some piping to tie it to the stainless oil lines . If you mount it here I would locate it a few inches or so in front of the radiator so it doesn't restrict air flow.
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Thanks Roy
With what I found in the old one I think I will go this route.
Best Regards
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: Engine oil cooler capacity [message #223402 is a reply to message #223400] |
Mon, 23 September 2013 00:35 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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| John Heslinga wrote on Sun, 22 September 2013 21:08 |
OH NO I,ve confirmed what I have for a oil heat exchanger in my stock Radiator. (Maybe not stock, It was replaced 8 years ago)
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/engine-failure/p51033-oil-cooler-in-radiator.html
My Oil cooler in the radiator is a much more complex network of folded and cut baffles to transfer heat to the coolant. Not a Simple heat exchanger tube.
Maybe this is about 30,000 BTU as a liquid to liquid Heat exchanger?? However the coolant temperature is pretty hot so the temp difference is not very wide making it less efficient.
Interesting that It would also do a rough job of screening the oil before it got to the filter.
(I wonder how much gunk this screened out ??)
[/quote. That is the way the oil heat exchangers are that I have seen. The cooler in the aluminum radiator is larger in size but it is closer to the top of the radiator where the hottest water is so if it were a hot day and the radiator coolant were hot it wouldn't do much cooling my oil would easily reach 280 degrees towing on a hot day on mountain grades. That is the reason I needed to add the 2 nd cooler. I feel I would have been better off with a good auxiliary cooler rather then the one in the radiator. Also if you haven't finished putting your 455 motor together it would be a good time to install a higher temperature front crankcase seal as the stock one is rated for 250 degrees rather then 350 degrees of the high temperature one. My new seal in my fresh motor lasted 1000 miles before it dried out and leaked badly. That is when i called different seal manufacturers and found the higher temperature one. My rear 460 ford rear seal was leaking also but with the cooler oil it is a minor drip now. I didn't research that one as it is too hard to replace with the motor installed. I don't want to pull the trans and lift .the motor. I would keep the RPM on your new motor under 4000 RPM higher RPM is what spun my rod bearing but I didn't have restrictors like you do if it would have made a difference.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: Engine oil cooler capacity [message #223421 is a reply to message #223402] |
Mon, 23 September 2013 09:36 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Good idea Roy!
Easy enough to do right now!
Would you have a part number and manufacturer in your files somewhere ?
| Quote: |
If you haven't finished putting your 455 motor together it would be a good time to install a higher temperature front crankcase seal as the stock one is rated for 250 degrees rather then 350 degrees of the high temperature one.
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Best regards
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: Engine oil cooler capacity [message #223422 is a reply to message #223421] |
Mon, 23 September 2013 09:39 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Roy.
One more question re engine RPM and mountain towing
What ratio is your final drive??
John
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: Engine oil cooler capacity [message #223423 is a reply to message #223422] |
Mon, 23 September 2013 09:58 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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| Quote: |
I didn't have restrictors like you do
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I really do not believe the restrictors in this engine do anything useful.
They only restrict the amount of oil going to the cam bearing. The cam bearing oil hole is about the same size so it automatically does the same thing.
Restrictor
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/engine-failure/p50909-engine-bearing-failure.html
Cam bearing
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/engine-failure/p50905-engine-bearing-failure.html
The cam journals are solid so the oil does not go anywhere from there. After the oil is finished lubeing the cam journal it returns nicely to the oil pan as it should.
I will start a new thread with this because I would like to hear some experiences on this topic
Regards
John
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
[Updated on: Mon, 23 September 2013 10:00] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Engine oil cooler capacity [message #223427 is a reply to message #223268] |
Mon, 23 September 2013 10:14 |
kingd
Messages: 592
Registered: June 2004
Karma: 2
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Emory, please ask Dick Paterson which oil filter that fits the GMCMH does NOT have a bypass. The WIX site used to have detailed specs on the oil filters but I haven't looked there lately.
DAVE KING
lurker, wannabe
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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| Re: Engine oil cooler capacity [message #223437 is a reply to message #223268] |
Mon, 23 September 2013 11:26 |
kingd
Messages: 592
Registered: June 2004
Karma: 2
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So I went to the WIX web site. It lists 51258 for a 1975 Olds Toronado. The specs show this filter has NO by-pass. Correct ???
DAVE KING
lurker, wannabe
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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