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| shower drain [message #222787] |
Mon, 16 September 2013 23:46  |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020
Registered: November 2010
Location: Hot AZ desert
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Ok, I always seem to start some argument but I have a legit question. I just don't want to hear " YOU CANT DO THAT, THATS ILLEGAL"
I had added a gray water knob for my sink so it didn't drain into the black tank. I was told by a few "gurus" how horrible my idea was because it was super illegal. Happened to be the gurus were wrong. They made themselves sound great getting all reved up, and how evil I was. But I was right again. AZ has very liberal gray water laws and your allowed to use up to 500 gals a day of gray water on my property. Just can't "Spray" it but can dump, pour, store whatever you want with gray water. So please if you feel compelled to tell me how dumb my idea is, or how wrong it is I don't really need a opinion.
What I do need is a nice GMC owner who knows the answer to enlighten me. If I drill direct through the shower trap where will the water end up???? I am unsure of where the plumbing is routed under the shower. I wanted to expansion foam the drain so shower water doesn't drain into the tank, and drill thru the trap to drain outside. Once I actually do this I will store the water and use it for plants/trees.
I'm just not sure and I've tried to find any info on the plumbing for the shower. I don't want to drill thru the trap then find out its draining into somewhere bad! Anyone know in a 23ft whats just on the otherside of the trap?
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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| Re: [GMCnet] shower drain [message #222799 is a reply to message #222787] |
Tue, 17 September 2013 07:50  |
Emery Stora
Messages: 959
Registered: January 2011
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If you drill through the shower trap it will drain on top of your holding tank and then run to the low side to the ground.
I don't want to rain on your parade but you should be aware that Arizona State law differs from Federal law so be careful if you camp on BLM of Federal forest or park land. Even Arizona State parks and forests have different regulations from private land.
Note I didn't tell you it's illegal I just suggest you check the regulations as you camp in various places just to help keep you out of trouble.
Emery Stora
On Sep 16, 2013, at 11:46 PM, Michael <radioactive626@msn.com> wrote:
>
>
> Ok, I always seem to start some argument but I have a legit question. I just don't want to hear " YOU CANT DO THAT, THATS ILLEGAL"
>
> I had added a gray water knob for my sink so it didn't drain into the black tank. I was told by a few "gurus" how horrible my idea was because it was super illegal. Happened to be the gurus were wrong. They made themselves sound great getting all reved up, and how evil I was. But I was right again. AZ has very liberal gray water laws and your allowed to use up to 500 gals a day of gray water on my property. Just can't "Spray" it but can dump, pour, store whatever you want with gray water. So please if you feel compelled to tell me how dumb my idea is, or how wrong it is I don't really need a opinion.
>
> What I do need is a nice GMC owner who knows the answer to enlighten me. If I drill direct through the shower trap where will the water end up???? I am unsure of where the plumbing is routed under the shower. I wanted to expansion foam the drain so shower water doesn't drain into the tank, and drill thru the trap to drain outside. Once I actually do this I will store the water and use it for plants/trees.
>
> I'm just not sure and I've tried to find any info on the plumbing for the shower. I don't want to drill thru the trap then find out its draining into somewhere bad! Anyone know in a 23ft whats just on the otherside of the trap?
> --
> ***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
> Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: shower drain [message #222807 is a reply to message #222787] |
Tue, 17 September 2013 08:22 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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| RadioActiveGMC wrote on Mon, 16 September 2013 23:46 |
Ok, I always seem to start some argument but I have a legit question. I just don't want to hear " YOU CANT DO THAT, THATS ILLEGAL"
I had added a gray water knob for my sink so it didn't drain into the black tank. I was told by a few "gurus" how horrible my idea was because it was super illegal. Happened to be the gurus were wrong. They made themselves sound great getting all reved up, and how evil I was. But I was right again. AZ has very liberal gray water laws and your allowed to use up to 500 gals a day of gray water on my property. Just can't "Spray" it but can dump, pour, store whatever you want with gray water. So please if you feel compelled to tell me how dumb my idea is, or how wrong it is I don't really need a opinion.
What I do need is a nice GMC owner who knows the answer to enlighten me. If I drill direct through the shower trap where will the water end up???? I am unsure of where the plumbing is routed under the shower. I wanted to expansion foam the drain so shower water doesn't drain into the tank, and drill thru the trap to drain outside. Once I actually do this I will store the water and use it for plants/trees.
I'm just not sure and I've tried to find any info on the plumbing for the shower. I don't want to drill thru the trap then find out its draining into somewhere bad! Anyone know in a 23ft whats just on the otherside of the trap?
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Under the shower drain is a P trap -- for clearance, the floor is routed through and a sheet metal plate is screwed to the bottom. The drain line runs to the back of the shower module.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/73-painted-desert-230/p36327-gmc-plumbing-drain-011.html
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/73-painted-desert-230/p34277-0064.html
You can access the inlet to the black water tank behind a panel..
here are the shower and sink inlets with the connections removed.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/73-painted-desert-230/p36325-0164.html
More photos on the album -- some may be of help.
As I recall, Dan G installed a second floor drain to allow him to divert grey water to an outside collection point.
Dennis
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
[Updated on: Tue, 17 September 2013 08:26] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] shower drain [message #222808 is a reply to message #222787] |
Tue, 17 September 2013 08:21 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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There's more than one diverter valve out there in use. I also know of more
than one GMC owner that keeps a tub in the shower to collect the gray water
for "outside irrigation" projects.
Steve F
On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 9:46 PM, Michael <radioactive626@msn.com> wrote:
>
>
> Ok, I always seem to start some argument but I have a legit question. I
> just don't want to hear " YOU CANT DO THAT, THATS ILLEGAL"
>
> I had added a gray water knob for my sink so it didn't drain into the
> black tank. I was told by a few "gurus" how horrible my idea was because it
> was super illegal. Happened to be the gurus were wrong. They made
> themselves sound great getting all reved up, and how evil I was. But I was
> right again. AZ has very liberal gray water laws and your allowed to use up
> to 500 gals a day of gray water on my property. Just can't "Spray" it but
> can dump, pour, store whatever you want with gray water. So please if you
> feel compelled to tell me how dumb my idea is, or how wrong it is I don't
> really need a opinion.
>
> What I do need is a nice GMC owner who knows the answer to enlighten me.
> If I drill direct through the shower trap where will the water end up???? I
> am unsure of where the plumbing is routed under the shower. I wanted to
> expansion foam the drain so shower water doesn't drain into the tank, and
> drill thru the trap to drain outside. Once I actually do this I will store
> the water and use it for plants/trees.
>
> I'm just not sure and I've tried to find any info on the plumbing for the
> shower. I don't want to drill thru the trap then find out its draining into
> somewhere bad! Anyone know in a 23ft whats just on the otherside of the
> trap?
> --
> ***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
> Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Take care,
Steve
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| Re: [GMCnet] shower drain [message #222811 is a reply to message #222787] |
Tue, 17 September 2013 08:38 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Michael,
Since the entire bathroom is sitting on top of the floor if you drill through the shower drain you will wind up having water come
into contact with the wood floor. Since you're a clever guy you could come up with a way to prevent that from happening but then you
run into problem number 2. I believe that if you drill through the floor you'll wind up hitting a gas tank or the black tank. Take a
tape measure and measure from the rear part of the entry door to the center of the shower drain. Take that measurement and transfer
it to the side of the Sequoia and then look up under the frame to see where you're at. If you're on top of a gas tank I don't think
it would be a good idea to dump water on top of it and if it's the black tank you'll be defeating your purpose AND letting lots of
unpleasant odors into the bathroom. ;-)
Regards,
Rob M.
PS - MICHAEL, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES CLICK ON EITHER OF THESE LINKS!!
For those of you that might be interested here's a link to a lengthy discussion on draining gray water on the ground in AZ:
http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php?topic=36882.0
Here's a link to another discussion with information from the Bureau of Land Management:
http://www.rvboondockingnews.com/2010/10/clarifying-gray-water-dumping-issue.html
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael
Ok, I always seem to start some argument but I have a legit question. I just don't want to hear " YOU CANT DO THAT, THATS ILLEGAL"
I had added a gray water knob for my sink so it didn't drain into the black tank. I was told by a few "gurus" how horrible my idea
was because it was super illegal. Happened to be the gurus were wrong. They made themselves sound great getting all reved up, and
how evil I was. But I was right again. AZ has very liberal gray water laws and your allowed to use up to 500 gals a day of gray
water on my property. Just can't "Spray" it but can dump, pour, store whatever you want with gray water. So please if you feel
compelled to tell me how dumb my idea is, or how wrong it is I don't really need a opinion.
What I do need is a nice GMC owner who knows the answer to enlighten me. If I drill direct through the shower trap where will the
water end up???? I am unsure of where the plumbing is routed under the shower. I wanted to expansion foam the drain so shower water
doesn't drain into the tank, and drill thru the trap to drain outside. Once I actually do this I will store the water and use it for
plants/trees.
I'm just not sure and I've tried to find any info on the plumbing for the shower. I don't want to drill thru the trap then find out
its draining into somewhere bad! Anyone know in a 23ft whats just on the otherside of the trap?
--
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: shower drain [message #222861 is a reply to message #222787] |
Tue, 17 September 2013 17:46 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020
Registered: November 2010
Location: Hot AZ desert
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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My bathroom has a lot of unpleasant smells anyway, maybe the hole has already been there from the start!
I now never use my motor home anyplace but private property in the mountains. So I appreciate the concern about the BLM land but in this case I'm ok. I have been speaking a lot with the county about can/can't since the RV is all bought and paid for and allows for every affordable weekend retreats.
I will crawl around under it hopefully this weekend. I'd rather know what I'm up against before I do since I don't have as any tools at the motorhome as I once did when it was parked with me all the time. If I can drill thru the trap directly below the drain then I'm sure I can come up with some sorta flex PVC tube and store the water instead of it hitting the ground. I will actually use it for watering trees and such instead of it just hitting the ground. I just hoped there was nothing direct under the trap. If I had to guess the gas tank is directly under it a few inches. I'm hoping thats the case.
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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| Re: shower drain [message #222864 is a reply to message #222861] |
Tue, 17 September 2013 17:56 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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No Michael -- the black tank is under the drain as shown and explained in the comments with the photis I posted.
Dennis
| RadioActiveGMC wrote on Tue, 17 September 2013 17:46 |
My bathroom has a lot of unpleasant smells anyway, maybe the hole has already been there from the start!
I now never use my motor home anyplace but private property in the mountains. So I appreciate the concern about the BLM land but in this case I'm ok. I have been speaking a lot with the county about can/can't since the RV is all bought and paid for and allows for every affordable weekend retreats.
I will crawl around under it hopefully this weekend. I'd rather know what I'm up against before I do since I don't have as any tools at the motorhome as I once did when it was parked with me all the time. If I can drill thru the trap directly below the drain then I'm sure I can come up with some sorta flex PVC tube and store the water instead of it hitting the ground. I will actually use it for watering trees and such instead of it just hitting the ground. I just hoped there was nothing direct under the trap. If I had to guess the gas tank is directly under it a few inches. I'm hoping thats the case.
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] shower drain [message #222965 is a reply to message #222950] |
Wed, 18 September 2013 08:57 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
The black tank fits fairly snug against the bottom of the wooden floor. The tank top can sag so it is not flush -- and around the through holes for the toilet and sink drains there is a foam insulation piece. The old foam on mine may have collapsed/crushed to about 3/8 inch.
This photo shows the area after the black tank was dropped. You can see the old foam around the toilet. The hanger is visible at the back and one of the belly straps for the tank is drooping down and to the right. On the far right is the exhaust pipe.
The metal plate that covers the underside of the clearance cut-out for the shower drain is out of the photo to the left.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/73-painted-desert-230/p31249-0082.html
And here again is the tank before it went back in -- showing the relative location of the parts and the new foam insulation.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/73-painted-desert-230/p34277-0064.html
Dennis
| Robert Mueller wrote on Wed, 18 September 2013 07:27 |
Dennis,
Can you guesstimate the distance from the bottom of the floor to the top of the black tank or is it hard up against the floor?
If there's a gap then Michael could drill a VERY tight hole for a shower floor waste through the fiberglass and the floor and have
it contact the top of the black tank. If he puts slots 1/4 inch wide 1/2 inch high every 1/4 inch around the end of the tube that
comes in contact with the black tank so he could force the top down a bit and water could drain through the slots and then find it's
way down to the ground. The down side to this is sooner or later hair and "stuff" will fill the gaps where the water found it's way
to the ground. He could loosen the tank up and drop it down a bit to create a gap.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Sexton
No Michael -- the black tank is under the drain as shown and explained in the comments with the photis I posted.
Dennis
Dennis
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: shower drain [message #223002 is a reply to message #222787] |
Wed, 18 September 2013 13:29 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020
Registered: November 2010
Location: Hot AZ desert
Karma: 0
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Thank you for the pics! I wonder if I can drill thru the drain at a angle. I know its not the right way and the smart way would be to remove the tank and modify it. But where the coach is at its hard to bring a ton of tools for the job. Even temporary drainage instead of it going into the gray tank would be a help.
The bad part of the GMC is the lack of gray/black storage. Showers take that small limit to the extreme when dry camping.
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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| Re: shower drain [message #223009 is a reply to message #223002] |
Wed, 18 September 2013 14:35 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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| RadioActiveGMC wrote on Wed, 18 September 2013 13:29 |
Thank you for the pics! I wonder if I can drill thru the drain at a angle. I know its not the right way and the smart way would be to remove the tank and modify it. But where the coach is at its hard to bring a ton of tools for the job. Even temporary drainage instead of it going into the gray tank would be a help.
The bad part of the GMC is the lack of gray/black storage. Showers take that small limit to the extreme when dry camping.
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Michael
It might be more simple to put a plug in the drain and shower in a shallow basin sitting on the bath floor. What doesn't trap in the basin you could empty with a small bilge pump.
Dennis
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] shower drain [message #223064 is a reply to message #223055] |
Wed, 18 September 2013 21:33 |
mickeysss
Messages: 1476
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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If you make a sump pump like in a boat and put in a 12 volt water pump to pump it out the side to a bucket would work well.
You could point it to flowers outside. Or pot plants with lights up by your tooth brush. Here anyone can have 12 plants?
i think, Mickey anaheim ca. palm playa, 77
On Sep 18, 2013, at 6:54 PM, Rob Mueller wrote:
> Michael,
>
> You install an outside shower, Camping World sells them
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael
>
> Thank you for the pics! I wonder if I can drill thru the drain at a angle. I know its not the right way and the smart way would be
> to remove the tank and modify it. But where the coach is at its hard to bring a ton of tools for the job. Even temporary drainage
> instead of it going into the gray tank would be a help.
> The bad part of the GMC is the lack of gray/black storage. Showers take that small limit to the extreme when dry camping.
>
> Michael,
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] shower drain [message #223136 is a reply to message #223055] |
Thu, 19 September 2013 12:58 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Wed, 18 September 2013 21:54 |
Michael,
You install an outside shower, Camping World sells them
Regards,
Rob M.
|
Michael,
What you are too young to remember is all the people that had canned ham and early Airstreams that went crazy. Those had no black tank at all, just a bucket or later a recycling toilet, and the shower and sink (usually only one) drained onto the ground. Well, after a few dysentery at campgrounds, they got very uptight about surface dumping of anything. That was about the mid-60's.
The GMCs were built to be Traveler's and short camping not long duration boondocking (hence the small batteries as OE).
Figure out what you can get away with, but be sure you can get away with it.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: shower drain [message #223486 is a reply to message #222787] |
Mon, 23 September 2013 21:58 |
RadioActiveGMC
Messages: 1020
Registered: November 2010
Location: Hot AZ desert
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Sometimes the smallest questions get answers that are truly meaningless. About 1 in 5 actually state something worth reading about the subject asked about. People make the biggest deals about everything. We drive a old motorhome thats unique. But at the end of the day they are old, fairly worthless for all the time/money we invest in them.
Anyway, I simply pulled out the drain, drilled thru the bottom of the coach (thank you for the picture they helped me understand what I was seeing thru the little drain hole). I bought about 6" of flexible tubing and expansion foamed it in place as the new drain. Wala, a few hours later, the kids feet smelled fresh again.
AZ has liberal gray water laws. I don't really care about camp grounds, parking lots, fair grounds, or dripping raw sewage down the freeway, I just wanted to drain the shower outside. It is done. I do perfectly know why the GMC was made, and that is was common to have one tank. But for the 99% of us who use it for camping, one puny tank stinks. Now I can sing in the shower all day and water my pines at the same time.
***"Gettin There"-1973 23' Sequoia-
Michael, Onans smell, "Go solar/wind power!"
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