| Latest problem...vaporlock...perhaps [message #220715] |
Sat, 31 August 2013 21:38  |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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Rob Mueller and I were out in our coach. 93 degrees and sunny.
Gas tanks about 1/4 full. Drove up the highway about 5 miles and stopped at a hardware store for about 5 minutes. As we were pulling out, the coach dies. Rob immediately said 'vaporlock'. My first experience.
Coach started right up and as we got back on the highway, I switched to the aux tank which has an electric fuel pump. A couple mile further I stopped and filled up with our local crapanol (10% blend). We then proceeded about 7 miles into Huntsville and stopped at Home Depot for about 10 minutes.
Rob drove the coach the 10 miles home on the electric fuel pump. About 2 miles into the trip the coach started loosing power at about 2500 rpm. Below that it ran fine. Above that it would just buck and loose power.
Eased on home. The fuel pump is running and I can kind of feel the solenoid engaging, although it is not as hard a 'click' as I would expect.
I called Emery and he mentioned that he's know for these solenoids not to fully engage.
I would have thought that the 25 gallons of gas I put in it would have cooled down things for quite some time??? One further note is that when we stopped for gas, there was a pretty significant overpressure in the tanks. Finally, when we got back home, there was a little overpressure in the tanks BUT the fumes coming out of the filler tube were very noticeably hot. I did not think to shoot the tank or the tank inlet with my IR thermometer.
So is this the dreaded vaporlock or could it be somethign else? Carb? Remember last week I had backfiring through the carb and went through it. Also replaced both the inline and in carb filters although nothing was found in the incarb filter when I cut it open.
Another data point is that I have installed a new Paterson distributor and have the timing set at 12 degrees. Is there any possibility that the ignition module or coil could cause this symptom.
Tomorrow, we're going to pull the gas line off the mechanical pump and put it in a gas can to verify the electric pump is actually pumping. Then we are going to clamp off the two fuel tank lines to make sure the switch is actually switching. We may pull the solenoid and visually check to ensure it is opening fully.
I've just ordered a new carb from Dick Paterson but don't expect it until nearly time to leave for Branson. I really need to get this fixed. The wife will not deal well with vapor lock.
I'm considering and am prepared to install the intank pumps if that is what it will take.
Thoughts, ideas, wild guesses welcome.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: [GMCnet] Latest problem...vaporlock...perhaps [message #220718 is a reply to message #220715] |
Sat, 31 August 2013 22:15  |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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IMHO, the best way to prevent tank selector valve ("solenoid") problems is
to install an electric pump per tank with tee'd outputs, and eliminate the
selector and the mechanical pump.
JWID -- without totally eliminating VL problems. :-(
Ken H.
On Aug 31, 2013 8:38 PM, "Kerry Pinkerton" <Pinkertonk@mchsi.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Rob Mueller and I were out in our coach. 93 degrees and sunny.
>
> Gas tanks about 1/4 full. Drove up the highway about 5 miles and stopped
> at a hardware store for about 5 minutes. As we were pulling out, the coach
> dies. Rob immediately said 'vaporlock'. My first experience.
>
> Coach started right up and as we got back on the highway, I switched to
> the aux tank which has an electric fuel pump. A couple mile further I
> stopped and filled up with our local crapanol (10% blend). We then
> proceeded about 7 miles into Huntsville and stopped at Home Depot for about
> 10 minutes.
>
> Rob drove the coach the 10 miles home on the electric fuel pump. About 2
> miles into the trip the coach started loosing power at about 2500 rpm.
> Below that it ran fine. Above that it would just buck and loose power.
>
> Eased on home. The fuel pump is running and I can kind of feel the
> solenoid engaging, although it is not as hard a 'click' as I would expect.
>
> I called Emery and he mentioned that he's know for these solenoids not to
> fully engage.
>
> I would have thought that the 25 gallons of gas I put in it would have
> cooled down things for quite some time??? One further note is that when we
> stopped for gas, there was a pretty significant overpressure in the tanks.
> Finally, when we got back home, there was a little overpressure in the
> tanks BUT the fumes coming out of the filler tube were very noticeably hot.
> I did not think to shoot the tank or the tank inlet with my IR thermometer.
>
> So is this the dreaded vaporlock or could it be somethign else? Carb?
> Remember last week I had backfiring through the carb and went through it.
> Also replaced both the inline and in carb filters although nothing was
> found in the incarb filter when I cut it open.
>
> Another data point is that I have installed a new Paterson distributor and
> have the timing set at 12 degrees. Is there any possibility that the
> ignition module or coil could cause this symptom.
>
> Tomorrow, we're going to pull the gas line off the mechanical pump and put
> it in a gas can to verify the electric pump is actually pumping. Then we
> are going to clamp off the two fuel tank lines to make sure the switch is
> actually switching. We may pull the solenoid and visually check to ensure
> it is opening fully.
>
> I've just ordered a new carb from Dick Paterson but don't expect it until
> nearly time to leave for Branson. I really need to get this fixed. The
> wife will not deal well with vapor lock.
>
> I'm considering and am prepared to install the intank pumps if that is
> what it will take.
>
> Thoughts, ideas, wild guesses welcome.
> --
> Kerry Pinkerton
>
> North Alabama, near Huntsville,
>
> 77 Eleganza II, "The Lady", 403CI, also a 76 Eleganza being re-bodied as
> an Art Deco car hauler
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Latest problem...vaporlock...perhaps [message #220790 is a reply to message #220715] |
Sun, 01 September 2013 19:01 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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Rob and I determined this morning that my Carter 412V4070 electric fuel pump isn't. I'll be finding a new one.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: [GMCnet] Latest problem...vaporlock...perhaps [message #220805 is a reply to message #220790] |
Sun, 01 September 2013 20:03 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Strange. I've had Carter 4070's for many years with never a failure. More
than I can say for the Red Holleys, one of which actually "melted down"
under the GMC -- dropping black stuff everywhere it went.
Ken
On Sun, Sep 1, 2013 at 8:01 PM, Kerry Pinkerton <Pinkertonk@mchsi.com>wrote:
>
>
> Rob and I determined this morning that my Carter 412V4070 electric fuel
> pump isn't. I'll be finding a new one.
> --
> Kerry Pinkerton
>
> North Alabama, near Huntsville,
>
> 77 Eleganza II, "The Lady", 403CI, also a 76 Eleganza being re-bodied as
> an Art Deco car hauler
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: Latest problem...vaporlock...perhaps [message #220807 is a reply to message #220715] |
Sun, 01 September 2013 20:23 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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We removed it and bench tested it. It ran but it just wouldn't pump enough to run the engine. And it was not as loud as it once was. When we took it apart, we noticed the bearing was gone by the pump.
I can order one from Applied but will try to find one locally if I can so I can get on the road again.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: [GMCnet] Latest problem...vaporlock...perhaps [message #220976 is a reply to message #220807] |
Mon, 02 September 2013 23:32 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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G'day,
The Carter 4070 is a vane pump with four vanes held captive in a central rotating "hub." When I pulled the hub and vanes out I noted
that I could move the shaft back and forth about 1/8 inch. Obviously the bearing on that end of the pump motor had failed. That
allowed the armature to shift and rub the stator which would have reduced the rpm's it would turn a great deal.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kerry Pinkerton
We removed it and bench tested it. It ran but it just wouldn't pump enough to run the engine. And it was not as loud as it once
was. When we took it apart, we noticed the bearing was gone by the pump.
I can order one from Applied but will try to find one locally if I can so I can get on the road again.
--
Kerry
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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