Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Re: [GMCnet] The KISS Parking Brake
| Re: [GMCnet] The KISS Parking Brake [message #218891] |
Sun, 18 August 2013 13:01  |
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hnielsen2
Messages: 1434
Registered: February 2004
Location: Alpine CA
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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That's it
KISS system
Howard
All is well with my Lord
Never Give Up
On Aug 18, 2013, at 10:13, gene Fisher <mr.erfisher@gmail.com> wrote:
> having been a truck driver for the first 1/3 of my life
>
> this is what I did
>
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/BRKLOCK.html
>
> works great on both of my GMC
> gene
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 10:02 PM, Howard HJ/SJ Chevy Guys <hnielsen2@cox.net
>> wrote:
>
>> I never had leak down.
>> But then I never worked on the Divco trucks
>> Howard
>>
>> All is well with my Lord
>> Never Give Up
>>
>>
>> On Aug 17, 2013, at 18:20, David Orders <dao@oarsllc.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The only problem I see with that system is that if you have even the
>> tiniest leak in your hydraulic system, it will leak down under the constant
>> pressure. The hydraulic brake system is designed by default do be in the
>> disengaged position, not under constant pressure. Also, you still have no
>> emergency brake in the event of hydraulic brake failure.
>>>
>>> Just my 2 cents worth
>>> --
>>> 1976 Royale "Twinkie II", 1978 Palm Beach with front end fire. Lynnwood
>> WA
>>>
>>> “Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their
>> shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and
>> you have their shoes.”
>>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
> --
> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> -------
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/
> Alternator Protection Cable
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
> _______________________________________________
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All is well with my Lord
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| Re: [GMCnet] The KISS Parking Brake [message #218897 is a reply to message #218891] |
Sun, 18 August 2013 13:20  |
kelvin
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2004
Location: Eugene, OR
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Howard...
That is the antithesis of "KISS". Tubes, wires, plumbing, switches and
almost $300.
It does nothing that Kerry's kludged-up pile of parts doesn't. Fact is,
Kerry's Kludge gives you 6 wheels locked up.
Just sayin'...
On 8/18/2013 11:01 AM, Howard HJ/SJ Chevy Guys wrote:
> That's it
> KISS system
> Howard
>
> All is well with my Lord
> Never Give Up
>
>
> On Aug 18, 2013, at 10:13, gene Fisher <mr.erfisher@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> having been a truck driver for the first 1/3 of my life
>>
>> this is what I did
>>
>> http://gmcmotorhome.info/BRKLOCK.html
>>
>> works great on both of my GMC
>> gene
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 10:02 PM, Howard HJ/SJ Chevy Guys <hnielsen2@cox.net
>>> wrote:
>>> I never had leak down.
>>> But then I never worked on the Divco trucks
>>> Howard
>>>
>>> All is well with my Lord
>>> Never Give Up
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 17, 2013, at 18:20, David Orders <dao@oarsllc.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> The only problem I see with that system is that if you have even the
>>> tiniest leak in your hydraulic system, it will leak down under the constant
>>> pressure. The hydraulic brake system is designed by default do be in the
>>> disengaged position, not under constant pressure. Also, you still have no
>>> emergency brake in the event of hydraulic brake failure.
>>>> Just my 2 cents worth
>>>> --
>>>> 1976 Royale "Twinkie II", 1978 Palm Beach with front end fire. Lynnwood
>>> WA
>>>> “Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their
>>> shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and
>>> you have their shoes.”
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>>
>> --
>> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
>> “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
>> -------
>> http://gmcmotorhome.info/
>> Alternator Protection Cable
>> http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] The KISS Parking Brake [message #218898 is a reply to message #218897] |
Sun, 18 August 2013 13:24 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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and a broken back on a on ramp
not exactingly a on/off system
blocks might be cheaper :>)
On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Kelvin Dietz <kelvin@datsuns.com> wrote:
> Howard...
>
> That is the antithesis of "KISS". Tubes, wires, plumbing, switches and
> almost $300.
> It does nothing that Kerry's kludged-up pile of parts doesn't. Fact is,
> Kerry's Kludge gives you 6 wheels locked up.
>
> Just sayin'...
>
> On 8/18/2013 11:01 AM, Howard HJ/SJ Chevy Guys wrote:
> > That's it
> > KISS system
> > Howard
> >
> > All is well with my Lord
> > Never Give Up
> >
> >
> > On Aug 18, 2013, at 10:13, gene Fisher <mr.erfisher@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> having been a truck driver for the first 1/3 of my life
> >>
> >> this is what I did
> >>
> >> http://gmcmotorhome.info/BRKLOCK.html
> >>
> >> works great on both of my GMC
> >> gene
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 10:02 PM, Howard HJ/SJ Chevy Guys <
> hnielsen2@cox.net
> >>> wrote:
> >>> I never had leak down.
> >>> But then I never worked on the Divco trucks
> >>> Howard
> >>>
> >>> All is well with my Lord
> >>> Never Give Up
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Aug 17, 2013, at 18:20, David Orders <dao@oarsllc.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> The only problem I see with that system is that if you have even the
> >>> tiniest leak in your hydraulic system, it will leak down under the
> constant
> >>> pressure. The hydraulic brake system is designed by default do be in
> the
> >>> disengaged position, not under constant pressure. Also, you still have
> no
> >>> emergency brake in the event of hydraulic brake failure.
> >>>> Just my 2 cents worth
> >>>> --
> >>>> 1976 Royale "Twinkie II", 1978 Palm Beach with front end fire.
> Lynnwood
> >>> WA
> >>>> “Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their
> >>> shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them
> and
> >>> you have their shoes.”
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> GMCnet mailing list
> >>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> GMCnet mailing list
> >>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> >> “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> >> -------
> >> http://gmcmotorhome.info/
> >> Alternator Protection Cable
> >> http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> GMCnet mailing list
> >> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
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>
> _______________________________________________
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--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: [GMCnet] The KISS Parking Brake [message #218899 is a reply to message #218891] |
Sun, 18 August 2013 13:41 |
Otterwan
Messages: 946
Registered: July 2013
Location: Lynnwood (north of Seattl...
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Wouldn't "The Club" do the exact same thing with no fabrication, be less expensive, and theft proof your GMC at the same time?
1977 Birchaven, Lynnwood WA - "We may not be able to stop all evil in the world, but I know that how we treat one another is entirely up to us."
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| Re: [GMCnet] The KISS Parking Brake [message #218918 is a reply to message #218898] |
Sun, 18 August 2013 14:59 |
kelvin
Messages: 608
Registered: February 2004
Location: Eugene, OR
Karma: 0
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On 8/18/2013 11:24 AM, gene Fisher wrote:
> and a broken back on an on ramp
Cryptic. So cryptic that I don't get it, I'm afraid. :-)
> not exactingly a on/off system
Of course it is. You put it on, you take it off. Not as simple as
flipping a switch but perfectly functional and pretty much fail-proof.
Besides the expense of the system you use there are half-a-dozen things
that can fail, starting with not getting a perfectly formed double-flare
when you install it into your brake lines. Who's to say the switch
itself won't decide to fail at that time you REALLY need it to work?
It's like you set it every time you take your GMC to the grocery store.
> blocks might be cheaper :>)
Got those on-board for the first time since owning my GMC. My parking
brake worked perfectly. Could hold the coach on any hill I would be
willing to climb. With the new disk brakes and lousy parking brakes I
got worried.
Setting wheel chocks pretty much means you'd better have a Co-pilot
along, however. Can't see how you could do it when traveling solo. With
Kerry's Kludge I could set the brakes, place the chocks, un-set the
brakes, roll the coach onto chocks (making sure it was solid) and then
reset Kerry's Kludge. Kinda perfect except no switch to flip. I like
flipping switches. Fact is, I have a spare "hole" for another switch on
my dash. Sad not to use it, but...
Either way, just be be clear, my original post simply said the hydraulic
brake lock was not KISS.
Very cool, works like a charm, wonderfully "techie", not KISS.
Still just sayin'...
Kelvin
> On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Kelvin Dietz <kelvin@datsuns.com> wrote:
>
>> Howard...
>>
>> That is the antithesis of "KISS". Tubes, wires, plumbing, switches and
>> almost $300.
>> It does nothing that Kerry's kludged-up pile of parts doesn't. Fact is,
>> Kerry's Kludge gives you 6 wheels locked up.
>>
>> Just sayin'...
>>
>> On 8/18/2013 11:01 AM, Howard HJ/SJ Chevy Guys wrote:
>>> That's it
>>> KISS system
>>> Howard
>>>
>>> All is well with my Lord
>>> Never Give Up
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| Re: [GMCnet] The KISS Parking Brake [message #218919 is a reply to message #218918] |
Sun, 18 August 2013 15:07 |
mickeysss
Messages: 1476
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I look at this new design clamping the foot pedal down to the floor as
"FART", far-out assisting reverse transportation. I like this simple design. for me," fart" is good.
mickey
anaheim ca.
77 palm beach ball.
On Aug 18, 2013, at 12:59 PM, Kelvin Dietz wrote:
> On 8/18/2013 11:24 AM, gene Fisher wrote:
>> and a broken back on an on ramp
>
> Cryptic. So cryptic that I don't get it, I'm afraid. :-)
>
>> not exactingly a on/off system
>
> Of course it is. You put it on, you take it off. Not as simple as
> flipping a switch but perfectly functional and pretty much fail-proof.
> Besides the expense of the system you use there are half-a-dozen things
> that can fail, starting with not getting a perfectly formed double-flare
> when you install it into your brake lines. Who's to say the switch
> itself won't decide to fail at that time you REALLY need it to work?
> It's like you set it every time you take your GMC to the grocery store.
>
>> blocks might be cheaper :>)
>
> Got those on-board for the first time since owning my GMC. My parking
> brake worked perfectly. Could hold the coach on any hill I would be
> willing to climb. With the new disk brakes and lousy parking brakes I
> got worried.
>
> Setting wheel chocks pretty much means you'd better have a Co-pilot
> along, however. Can't see how you could do it when traveling solo. With
> Kerry's Kludge I could set the brakes, place the chocks, un-set the
> brakes, roll the coach onto chocks (making sure it was solid) and then
> reset Kerry's Kludge. Kinda perfect except no switch to flip. I like
> flipping switches. Fact is, I have a spare "hole" for another switch on
> my dash. Sad not to use it, but...
>
> Either way, just be be clear, my original post simply said the hydraulic
> brake lock was not KISS.
> Very cool, works like a charm, wonderfully "techie", not KISS.
>
> Still just sayin'...
> Kelvin
>> On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Kelvin Dietz <kelvin@datsuns.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Howard...
>>>
>>> That is the antithesis of "KISS". Tubes, wires, plumbing, switches and
>>> almost $300.
>>> It does nothing that Kerry's kludged-up pile of parts doesn't. Fact is,
>>> Kerry's Kludge gives you 6 wheels locked up.
>>>
>>> Just sayin'...
>>>
>>> On 8/18/2013 11:01 AM, Howard HJ/SJ Chevy Guys wrote:
>>>> That's it
>>>> KISS system
>>>> Howard
>>>>
>>>> All is well with my Lord
>>>> Never Give Up
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] The KISS Parking Brake [message #218925 is a reply to message #218898] |
Sun, 18 August 2013 15:48 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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| Mr ERFisher wrote on Sun, 18 August 2013 13:24 |
and a broken back on a on ramp
not exactingly a on/off system
blocks might be cheaper :>)
|
I don't understand what you're trying to say Gene. Seems to me that your system does EXACTLY the same thing except you have a couple components that hold pressure on the rear brakes and the KISS system just holds the brake pedal down.
I guess the KISS system could have a catastrophic failure of the master cylinder which would release the front or the back. The odds of it releasing BOTH brake circuits would be pretty dang high.
On the same note, the components in your system could fail and also release the brakes...or Ken Henderson's or anyone elses for that matter.
As previously noted, wheel cylinder seals could leak but I'd THINK (I'm not a hydraulic engineer) that would not be a catastrophic failure.
If there is an inherent danger of holding the brake pedal down by mechanical means, please explain it. I don't want to be using something that is going to kill me or someone else and don't want anyone else to either.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: [GMCnet] The KISS Parking Brake [message #218931 is a reply to message #218891] |
Sun, 18 August 2013 16:11 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
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I don't think the KISS brake is going to be likely to cause any catastrophic failure... the only two problems I can see...
1) The brake system will be pressurized for MUCH longer than it ever would while driving (how many thousands of miles do you have to drive to stand on the brake pedal hard for an hour?). This won't cause a failure per se, but I can believe it will potentially cause leaks to occur quicker than "just driving along".
2) The KISS relies on there not being ANY leakage in the brake system - either at the master, or slave cylinders - or anywhere else for that matter. A leak that wouldn't be an issue for "just driving along" could (and would) eventually release the brakes. Yes, for this to happen it would probably have to be a leak in both the front and rear circuits, but OTOH, a very, very small leak could release the brakes over a matter of hours or days (or weeks, for that matter).
That said, I still think it's a brilliant idea that is worth considering - for example, you're stopping at a restaurant and have to park on a steep hill for a couple hours... heck yes, a KISS would work for 99% of us. I'd just recommend checking to make sure the pedal was still firm when you disengage it every time, so you have some advance warning before it's likely to let you down somehow.
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: [GMCnet] The KISS Parking Brake [message #218932 is a reply to message #218931] |
Sun, 18 August 2013 16:30 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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| habbyguy wrote on Sun, 18 August 2013 16:11 |
I don't think the KISS brake is going to be likely to cause any catastrophic failure... the only two problems I can see...
2) The KISS relies on there not being ANY leakage in the brake system - either at the master, or slave cylinders - or anywhere else for that matter. A leak that wouldn't be an issue for "just driving along" could (and would) eventually release the brakes. Yes, for this to happen it would probably have to be a leak in both the front and rear circuits, but OTOH, a very, very small leak could release the brakes over a matter of hours or days (or weeks, for that matter).
...
|
Yeah, I guess that's my point. Any line lock system holds pressure on the wheel cylinders/calipers. All the KISS system does is use a glorified stick to maintain the pressure (on all 6 tires using both brake circuits) rather than some switches and valves.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: [GMCnet] The KISS Parking Brake [message #218944 is a reply to message #218899] |
Sun, 18 August 2013 17:26 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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| Otterwan wrote on Sun, 18 August 2013 13:41 |
Wouldn't "The Club" do the exact same thing with no fabrication, be less expensive, and theft proof your GMC at the same time?
|
All the "CLUB's" that I saw lock around the brake or clutch pedal and PREVENT them from being depressed, not hold them down. And at $35 or so, it'd be more spendy than this thing.
I haven't got past the prototype yet but I'm betting I can come up with something that will require no welding...just buy some stuff and screw it together. It will be awhile before I get past the prototype stage but my brain won't let me leave it along long...  
The $25 line locks would basically be the same thing but you'd need one on both brake circuits and have to cut and flare your brake lines to install them to accomplish the same thing...unless I'm missing something....
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
[Updated on: Sun, 18 August 2013 17:30] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] The KISS Parking Brake [message #218948 is a reply to message #218945] |
Sun, 18 August 2013 17:40 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Ah, yep, that will do the exact same thing as the KISS System...at least as long as you have something sturdy to brace it against.
Might or might not be more difficult to put it into service. I guess it would depend on how difficult it is to put the seat end into whatever it's pressing against.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: [GMCnet] The KISS Parking Brake [message #218950 is a reply to message #218944] |
Sun, 18 August 2013 17:49 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Kerry,
It's a great idea for a KISS brake, but I can't get past the need to
compensate for a tiny leak. How about including a spring? To overcome its
tension, perhaps an over center draw latch, such as some of these:
http://www.southco.com/en-us/product/hierarchy.html?hid=7333
The rubber ones might even serve the latch and spring functions.
Still not as travel-compensating as my pneumatic cylinder, but better than
a fixed device.
Ken H.
On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 6:26 PM, Kerry Pinkerton <Pinkertonk@mchsi.com>wrote:
>
>
> Otterwan wrote on Sun, 18 August 2013 13:41
> > Wouldn't "The Club" do the exact same thing with no fabrication, be less
> expensive, and theft proof your GMC at the same time?
>
>
> All the "CLUB's" that I saw lock around the brake or clutch pedal and
> PREVENT them from being depressed, not hold them down. And at $35 or so,
> it'd be more spendy than this thing.
>
> I haven't got past the prototype yet but I'm betting I can come up with
> something that will require no welding...just buy some stuff and screw it
> together. It will be awhile before I get past the prototype stage but my
> brain won't let me leave it along long... 8o :lol:
> --
> Kerry Pinkerton
>
> North Alabama, near Huntsville,
>
> 77 Eleganza II, "The Lady", 403CI, also a 76 Eleganza being re-bodied as
> an Art Deco car hauler
> _______________________________________________
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] The KISS Parking Brake [message #218962 is a reply to message #218950] |
Sun, 18 August 2013 18:22 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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| Ken Henderson wrote on Sun, 18 August 2013 17:49 |
Kerry,
It's a great idea for a KISS brake, but I can't get past the need to
compensate for a tiny leak. How about including a spring? ...
|
It would be simple enough to include a die spring in the device. Put in position, crank a handle to tighten the clamp and compress the spring.
Version 2.0....
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: [GMCnet] The KISS Parking Brake [message #219064 is a reply to message #218937] |
Mon, 19 August 2013 07:03 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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All except the theft proof. A crook with a blot cutter will have the 'club' off in something under 20 seconds. Which is why steering wheels on 'steaklable' models are in short supply st at the Men's Mall.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 8/18/13, Bill Freeman <flipflapco@gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] The KISS Parking Brake
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Sunday, August 18, 2013, 10:00 PM
Quote:
> Wouldn't "The Club" do the exact same thing with no
fabrication, be less expensive, and theft proof your GMC at
the same time?
Yes it would.
Another low tech brake lock method here for $25.
http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS-Performance-Products/JEGS-Hydraulic-Brake-Lock/1769685/10002/-1
--
Bill Freeman
78 Royale 73 Sequoia
Colerain, North Carolina
http://tinyurl.com/yx7nra
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] The KISS Parking Brake [message #219113 is a reply to message #218950] |
Mon, 19 August 2013 13:39 |
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Tangerine
Messages: 192
Registered: February 2004
Location: Livonia, MI
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 8/18/2013 6:49 PM, Ken Henderson wrote:
> Kerry,
>
> It's a great idea for a KISS brake, but I can't get past the need to
> compensate for a tiny leak. How about including a spring? To overcome its
> tension, perhaps an over center draw latch, such as some of these:
> http://www.southco.com/en-us/product/hierarchy.html?hid=7333
>
> The rubber ones might even serve the latch and spring functions.
>
> Still not as travel-compensating as my pneumatic cylinder, but better than
> a fixed device.
>
> Ken H.
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 6:26 PM, Kerry Pinkerton<Pinkertonk@mchsi.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> Otterwan wrote on Sun, 18 August 2013 13:41
>>> Wouldn't "The Club" do the exact same thing with no fabrication, be less
>> expensive, and theft proof your GMC at the same time?
>>
>>
>> All the "CLUB's" that I saw lock around the brake or clutch pedal and
>> PREVENT them from being depressed, not hold them down. And at $35 or so,
>> it'd be more spendy than this thing.
>>
>> I haven't got past the prototype yet but I'm betting I can come up with
>> something that will require no welding...just buy some stuff and screw it
>> together. It will be awhile before I get past the prototype stage but my
>> brain won't let me leave it along long... 8o :lol:
>> --
>> Kerry Pinkerton
Wouldn't the brake lights be on all the time??
Gary W. Mills (Livonia MI)
. ___________
./_][__][] []| 1974 GMC M/H
.*O-------OO-* Painted Desert
"Tangerine Dream" W/New Frame
./___\.
(o\_!_/o) '74 Love Bug
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1974 GMC 260
Tangerine Dream
Livonia Michigan
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