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| fridge [message #216854] |
Sun, 04 August 2013 08:24  |
chasingsummer
Messages: 434
Registered: May 2011
Location: asheboro, nc
Karma: 0
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Related,the following link may be a source for fridge door seals
http://www.barefrigeration.com/Products/Custom-Size-Cooler-and-Freezer-Gasket-Style-2327.html
My great wife has given the ok for a new fridge,
presently my ac/dc 2 door models needs doors seals so that ac side does not frost up in hours. dc side needs additional reapirs.
As I consider my options I seek all opinions I can get. I do find myself camping a couple long weekends with hook ups . And a couple without.
I also see at least as found on line many issues related to gas units leaking, fires, and otherwise not lasting anywhere near the 35 plus years my present unit did.
So, since I have the ability to over think things, I wonder if a new ac/dc, and a small solar panel could keep dc fridge up for 2 to 4 days with one 27 battery. I understand I may need to run genny a couple hours a day, which i already do for ac. How close to perfect level do the gas units have to be?
And any models that did not require cabinet work.
my roof has a vent cover, I also wonder if there is a way from roof to open vent as to inspect without unbolting and causing leaks.
All info is greatly appreciated as I beat on this dead horse .
Thanks brian
brian
asheboro, nc
75 eleganza, 74 build
119k miles and counting,
DOG HOUSE
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| Re: fridge [message #216855 is a reply to message #216854] |
Sun, 04 August 2013 08:37  |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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I think a person can dry camp with a non gas fridge, however you will always be fighting dead batteries. More solar, Other things you can do, but it will be a struggle, especially the longer periods you stay off grid.
I have been trying to get by with my original electric because i do not have the money to replace a working unit yet. But it is a fight to keep batteries up and things cool. I have golf cart batteries. 65 watts solar. And a few other mods.
If it is less then 90 degrees out, i can make it through the weekend. Barely.
Putting ice block in fridge, Outside/ inside Temp variations can cause more power use.
Bottom line, if you are replacing and plan on not being plugged in. Go gas and just be done.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: fridge [message #216860 is a reply to message #216854] |
Sun, 04 August 2013 10:02 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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Brian,
I faced a similar dilemma a few years ago. My original Norcold worked okay, but the door seals leaked and it was getting pretty shabby overall. Like you, I tend to over think things and did a LOT of thinking and asking before I made the decision to go with a new Norcold 641-3. My concerns were that it would not maintain the cold temps when it was HOT outside, which is moat of the time in Southern AZ, and the others you mentioned about level operation, fire hazards, etc.
I ended up installing the new 3-way according to the instructions in the installation manual, which you can download from Norcold's site. The new fridge works great! It cools down quickly, keeps the freezer items frozen and the fridge compartment cold, looks good, and is an overall BIG improvement. Best of all, I don't have to worry about running the batteries down or even running the generator while dry camping.
The newer heat absorption refrigerators can be run slightly out of level without any ill effects. Check the Norcold website, it will tell you how much. That said, I generally try to have my coach as level as possible when it is on. They seem to have taken care of the fire issue, for the most part through a few design refinements, although I think that was mostly an issue with the larger units. It sips propane when operating in gas LP mode, and works very efficiently in AC mode. The 12 volt mode is useful only for keeping the fridge cold as you drive and is only heating the element at about half the rate as when on AC or LP.
Just in case, I have a Fire Fight halon automatic extinguisher in the fridge compartment, mounted per Jim Bounds' instructions. I also have a couple of solar powered fans mounted in the top vent to help draw cool air over the coils. That set-up, coupled with my 140 watt solar charging system and I can dry camp for a long weekend, or longer, with NO problems. Last November, I spent 4 days at the Imperial Sand Dunes, near Yuma, and never fired up the Onan once. Even though we charged up cell phones, tablets, netbooks, etc. and used lights etc at night, my house batteries were always fully charged by mid to late afternoon.
I don't think you'll have any regrets if you pull the plug and go with a heat absorption fridge, either a two way or a three way.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: fridge [message #216875 is a reply to message #216854] |
Sun, 04 August 2013 13:05 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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I'm going to chime in and add my voice to the chorus of those singing the praises of a 3-way fridge. The ability to NOT run your generator is going to start saving you money from day one (not to mention the aggravation of having to listen to your generator churning away just to keep your popsicles frozen).
And FWIW I've never noticed any problem cooling even when I'm not sitting absolutely level (not that I've ever camped where I'm THAT far from level). FYI, my fridge is a Dometic 3-way Royale unit that was replaced probably 15 years ago by a PO (bless his heart).
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: fridge [message #217069 is a reply to message #216882] |
Mon, 05 August 2013 14:23 |
hertfordnc
Messages: 1164
Registered: September 2009
Location: East NC
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I suggested this once a couple years ago and my input was dismissed as the crazed ramblings of a madman who does not own a GMC but I AM A thick skinned madman so i'll put it out there again.
Aren't we talking $1500 for a new Norcold or Dometic absorption fridge?
Aren't we pretty close to the place where $1500 will buy enough solar and batteries to run a small AC fridge?
less than 2 amps at 50% cycle is around 1800 watts per day right?
If we are not there yet we must be close.
Dave & Ellen Silva
Hertford, NC
76 Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff
Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021
It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right.
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| Re: [GMCnet] fridge [message #217089 is a reply to message #217076] |
Mon, 05 August 2013 16:59 |
chasingsummer
Messages: 434
Registered: May 2011
Location: asheboro, nc
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I am leaning towards the norcold 641 3 way. little yess than 1100. I am used to plugging in night before, and I do like the idea of running off dc while driving.
I did think about the solar and battery idea. My uneducated opinion on it was that by the time my fridge area was half filled with batteries,my fridge would be too small to be of any good. Not to mention a lot of added weight. I do like the idea of maybe a small solar on my cargo box to work like a small trickle charge, similiar to how I did my boat a few years back. I guess electrical cable could feed down attached to my ladder, but that is down the road , maybe.
brian
asheboro, nc
75 eleganza, 74 build
119k miles and counting,
DOG HOUSE
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| Re: [GMCnet] fridge [message #217105 is a reply to message #217089] |
Tue, 06 August 2013 00:00 |
mickeysss
Messages: 1476
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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cold. here in L.A. cold is not a problem all year outside the vehicle and solar is every day at work like rust in an ocean boat.
Solar like you state is good to keep charge of the batteries. Mr. Story's living large makes one think hard about how far you can go.
The beginning for me will be the biggest size solar cell adaptation i can put on my pod. What that is i would like anyone to say if
possible here. Thank you if you help. thank you if you do not. Lin and Larry Pardey the greatest boat living couple in the world use
60 pounds of ice in a regular stainless steel top load iced locker that last up to 14 days they say. This would cost nothing in electricity
and with a small solar may help that design last longer. I have a 77 palm beach so i am sticking with what is in it, the 3 way and it has
not been fired up for a few years and i hope to do so in a month or so and see if it works. I plan to put fans behind it like Rob M. 12
volt computer fans to help keep the heat from behind the fridge to help it out with a switch like i have for the water pump to just turn on
every once in a while to help keep the heat out with a light in the switch to see it on or a timer. I need to put in a button to kick off the
fuel pump in the onan, i do not see how to do that yet but that is a good idea if i ever get it running. Eating is what kills one more than
anything else it seems if you watch kcet and dr. OZ, so i am thinking of keeping my eating thing as low key as possible to stop from
over eating and try to eat fresh things that i do not have to keep. I bought an ice maker for drinks but it is completely 110 volt. So that
is 5 gallons an hour to make ice with the onan, cheaper to buy a bag of ice for 2 dollars. But i can use it if tied to a house or park.
Propane is the way to go cold inside cheap, but dangerous. I am rethinking the whole thing but to work on it cost more in down time
to use it from it being a mess to live in, so best to just leave it as it was in 1977 and wait till some thing breaks and try and bring it
ti Jim K up north and visit some day.., a manny front end is safe and a big invention that looks most important to me, so i am saving
up for that and see if i can get manny to put one on in a year or so. My motor is strong and had been rebuilt right before i bought it
when the last owner died at about 81, I thank him for that, and i have a new manny tranny and i thank him for that. The dam thing
is pretty good stock as it was in 1977 really. So i just want some curtains and gas for now. Mickey 77 palm beach anaheim ca.
On Aug 5, 2013, at 2:59 PM, brian wrote:
>
>
> I am leaning towards the norcold 641 3 way. little yess than 1100. I am used to plugging in night before, and I do like the idea of running off dc while driving.
> I did think about the solar and battery idea. My uneducated opinion on it was that by the time my fridge area was half filled with batteries,my fridge would be too small to be of any good. Not to mention a lot of added weight. I do like the idea of maybe a small solar on my cargo box to work like a small trickle charge, similiar to how I did my boat a few years back. I guess electrical cable could feed down attached to my ladder, but that is down the road , maybe.
> --
> brian
> asheboro, nc
> 75 eleganza 2 74 build
> 118k miles and counting,
> DOG HOUSE
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: [GMCnet] fridge [message #217131 is a reply to message #217089] |
Tue, 06 August 2013 09:19 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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| chasingsummer wrote on Mon, 05 August 2013 14:59 |
I am leaning towards the norcold 641 3 way. little yess than 1100. I am used to plugging in night before, and I do like the idea of running off dc while driving.
I did think about the solar and battery idea. My uneducated opinion on it was that by the time my fridge area was half filled with batteries,my fridge would be too small to be of any good. Not to mention a lot of added weight. I do like the idea of maybe a small solar on my cargo box to work like a small trickle charge, similiar to how I did my boat a few years back. I guess electrical cable could feed down attached to my ladder, but that is down the road , maybe.
|
Brian, Here's what I did. It works well:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5863-norcold-refrigerator-installation.html
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6227-solar-battery-charging.html
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: [GMCnet] fridge [message #217142 is a reply to message #217131] |
Tue, 06 August 2013 10:52 |
mickeysss
Messages: 1476
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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these designs carl are really great. I am going to try and do them in the next year or so. thanks, looks really great, really great...
thank you
mickey anaheim ca. 77 palm beach.
On Aug 6, 2013, at 7:19 AM, Carl Stouffer wrote:
>
>
> chasingsummer wrote on Mon, 05 August 2013 14:59
>> I am leaning towards the norcold 641 3 way. little yess than 1100. I am used to plugging in night before, and I do like the idea of running off dc while driving.
>> I did think about the solar and battery idea. My uneducated opinion on it was that by the time my fridge area was half filled with batteries,my fridge would be too small to be of any good. Not to mention a lot of added weight. I do like the idea of maybe a small solar on my cargo box to work like a small trickle charge, similiar to how I did my boat a few years back. I guess electrical cable could feed down attached to my ladder, but that is down the road , maybe.
>
>
>
> Brian, Here's what I did. It works well:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5863-norcold-refrigerator-installation.html
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6227-solar-battery-charging.html
> --
> Carl S.
> '75 ex Palm Beach
> Tucson, AZ.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] fridge [message #217228 is a reply to message #217146] |
Tue, 06 August 2013 20:22 |
chasingsummer
Messages: 434
Registered: May 2011
Location: asheboro, nc
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Carl
I have looked at your pics numerious times.
I understand I dont have your skills, But I was thinking of maybe using some of your ideas.
Do you have a switch on your vent fan? an aux 12 vdc power source on fridge when fridge is running would be nice.I have thought if I could find a solar fan, then I would mount fan same as yours, with its panel on top of cover. I have wondered if fan running when cold outside would be good or not.
Thanks for sharing
brian
brian
asheboro, nc
75 eleganza, 74 build
119k miles and counting,
DOG HOUSE
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| Re: [GMCnet] fridge [message #217231 is a reply to message #217228] |
Tue, 06 August 2013 20:54 |
Dennis sch
Messages: 58
Registered: July 2012
Location: United States
Karma: 1
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the best thing I did was junk the gas/ac/dc fridge went to lows and picked up a nice ac fridge i think its 10 cf a lot more room stays cold and frost free i added 250w solar on the roof and life is good
Dennis S
Panama City FL
73 260
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| Re: [GMCnet] fridge [message #217240 is a reply to message #217228] |
Tue, 06 August 2013 22:23 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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| chasingsummer wrote on Tue, 06 August 2013 18:22 |
Carl
I have looked at your pics numerious times.
I understand I dont have your skills, But I was thinking of maybe using some of your ideas.
Do you have a switch on your vent fan? an aux 12 vdc power source on fridge when fridge is running would be nice.I have thought if I could find a solar fan, then I would mount fan same as yours, with its panel on top of cover. I have wondered if fan running when cold outside would be good or not.
Thanks for sharing
brian
|
Brian,
Yes, I did wire up the solar vent fan with a switch. Whenever I have the fridge on, I turn on the solar powered fan. My reasoning is that the more air going over the coils the better under any temperature conditions. That said, The only time I run the fridge when it's cold out is at night. It doesn't usually stay cold long during the day here in Southern AZ. I switched the fan mostly because I didn't see any point in having it run when the coach is parked in the driveway with the fridge off. When I replaced the 4 volt Camco fan with a pair of computer fans, I used the same wiring and switch.
I think it is important to build the baffles the way they are spelled out in the installation manual. This will direct as much convection air across the coils as possible. It just makes sense to me. Then again, the manual may have been written by lawyers and the baffles have little bearing on the subject.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: [GMCnet] fridge [message #231274 is a reply to message #216860] |
Mon, 25 November 2013 21:42 |
mickeysss
Messages: 1476
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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i am sold on carls design for the friidge. but if you do not use a big one this small one below
could save all the space for the big fridge for a full shower.
bob has two fridges, one is a wine cooler. But if you have an ice maker and freezer with normal ice chest
to move in and out side for salads and fruits and drinks you may not eat as much meat and stuff that kills you
when you get older fast. The Norcold 641-3 is a great design and the freezer is only electric so if bobs was lpg it would work.
The small freezer/fridge from bob de kruyff see picture uses 90 watts while running.
If you can find a freezer/fridge like this size but lgp and pull out top load that would be a good one.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/refrigerator/p16729.html
On Aug 4, 2013, at 8:02 AM, Carl Stouffer wrote:
>
>
> Brian,
>
> I faced a similar dilemma a few years ago. My original Norcold worked okay, but the door seals leaked and it was getting pretty shabby overall. Like you, I tend to over think things and did a LOT of thinking and asking before I made the decision to go with a new Norcold 641-3. My concerns were that it would not maintain the cold temps when it was HOT outside, which is moat of the time in Southern AZ, and the others you mentioned about level operation, fire hazards, etc.
>
> I ended up installing the new 3-way according to the instructions in the installation manual, which you can download from Norcold's site. The new fridge works great! It cools down quickly, keeps the freezer items frozen and the fridge compartment cold, looks good, and is an overall BIG improvement. Best of all, I don't have to worry about running the batteries down or even running the generator while dry camping.
>
> The newer heat absorption refrigerators can be run slightly out of level without any ill effects. Check the Norcold website, it will tell you how much. That said, I generally try to have my coach as level as possible when it is on. They seem to have taken care of the fire issue, for the most part through a few design refinements, although I think that was mostly an issue with the larger units. It sips propane when operating in gas LP mode, and works very efficiently in AC mode. The 12 volt mode is useful only for keeping the fridge cold as you drive and is only heating the element at about half the rate as when on AC or LP.
>
> Just in case, I have a Fire Fight halon automatic extinguisher in the fridge compartment, mounted per Jim Bounds' instructions. I also have a couple of solar powered fans mounted in the top vent to help draw cool air over the coils. That set-up, coupled with my 140 watt solar charging system and I can dry camp for a long weekend, or longer, with NO problems. Last November, I spent 4 days at the Imperial Sand Dunes, near Yuma, and never fired up the Onan once. Even though we charged up cell phones, tablets, netbooks, etc. and used lights etc at night, my house batteries were always fully charged by mid to late afternoon.
>
> I don't think you'll have any regrets if you pull the plug and go with a heat absorption fridge, either a two way or a three way.
> --
> Carl S.
> '75 ex Palm Beach
> Tucson, AZ.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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