Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Dash air upgrade?
| Dash air upgrade? [message #216020] |
Sun, 28 July 2013 18:33  |
bhayes
Messages: 263
Registered: March 2010
Karma: 1
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On one of the other recent topics, someone asked if there was an upgrade for the '73-'76 dash air that would bring it up to the arcticness of the '77-78s. My '76's dash air barely blows any air at all, though I have a noisy auxiliary unit bolted to the floor that works fairly well when the system has some refrigerant in it (which is on my to-do list).
So does any type of upgrade other than the auxiliary units exist? And is there a decent, quiet auxiliary unit out there?
Bryan Hayes
'76 Eleganza II
Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dash air upgrade? [message #216050 is a reply to message #216020] |
Sun, 28 July 2013 22:43  |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Bryan,
You have a 76 coach in which GMC in their infinite wisdom tried to improve but made it worse than the years before. The answer to your question is yes and no! Some have made the air handler as a heater and defrost only and added an auxiliary unit to provide cooling to the coach. It appears that you or the PO has already added an auxiliary cooling unit. Adding a unit like this is probably the best bang for the buck and least labor intensive.
Jim K sells a Vintage Air AC unit at a very reasonable price.
http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/849
The alternative is to completely rebuild your dash installing modern ducts, vents and air handling units. I know of at least 2 projects of this sort, one was done by Bob Gummersall in 2003 & 2004 and included complete instructions, parts list and full size drawings. I do not know if Bob is still in GMC world, but I did find some of the pictures online. There is another set of pictures that I have not been able to find online, but have on a CD that show more on how it is put together. I also have the full size drawings which I purchased along with the CD back 2004.
file:///Volumes/Dash%20AC%20Conversion/acdash.htm
Someone else recently did a dash rebuild conversion that was on the net, but I cannot find any info.
That is all I got at this time, anybody else got anything?
JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion
Michigan
On Jul 28, 2013, at 7:33 PM, Bryan Hayes <hayesnet1@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On one of the other recent topics, someone asked if there was an upgrade for the '73-'76 dash air that would bring it up to the arcticness of the '77-78s. My '76's dash air barely blows any air at all, though I have a noisy auxiliary unit bolted to the floor that works fairly well when the system has some refrigerant in it (which is on my to-do list).
>
> So does any type of upgrade other than the auxiliary units exist? And is there a decent, quiet auxiliary unit out there?
> --
> Bryan Hayes
> '76 Eleganza II
> Salt Lake City, UT
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: Dash air upgrade? [message #216058 is a reply to message #216020] |
Sun, 28 July 2013 23:51 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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| bhayes wrote on Sun, 28 July 2013 16:33 |
On one of the other recent topics, someone asked if there was an upgrade for the '73-'76 dash air that would bring it up to the arcticness of the '77-78s. My '76's dash air barely blows any air at all, though I have a noisy auxiliary unit bolted to the floor that works fairly well when the system has some refrigerant in it (which is on my to-do list).
So does any type of upgrade other than the auxiliary units exist? And is there a decent, quiet auxiliary unit out there?
|
If you block off the outside air intake and cut a large return air hole in the firewall to supply air too the blower you will get a lot more supply air out of the 2 lower supply vents
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dash air upgrade? [message #216218 is a reply to message #216058] |
Tue, 30 July 2013 00:14 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Having been a Vintage dealer for few years, our technicians and I have
learned a lot about how to make the aux. add on work well.
We do not have the total solution, but the cooling capacity of the aux.
unit is more effective as the evaporative cooler is right there and it is
cooling the inside air which should be anywhere around 70-80degrees F it
will pull it down 20 degrees to 50 coming out.
In our college Thermodynamic class, they drilled us that you can not have
delta T of more than 20, but I have seen delta T of 25 or more.
On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 9:51 PM, <roy@gmcnet.org> wrote:
>
>
> bhayes wrote on Sun, 28 July 2013 16:33
> > On one of the other recent topics, someone asked if there was an upgrade
> for the '73-'76 dash air that would bring it up to the arcticness of the
> '77-78s. My '76's dash air barely blows any air at all, though I have a
> noisy auxiliary unit bolted to the floor that works fairly well when the
> system has some refrigerant in it (which is on my to-do list).
> >
> > So does any type of upgrade other than the auxiliary units exist? And is
> there a decent, quiet auxiliary unit out there?
>
> If you block off the outside air intake and cut a large return air hole in
> the firewall to supply air too the blower you will get a lot more supply
> air out of the 2 lower supply vents
> --
> Roy Keen
> Minden,NV
> 76 X Glenbrook
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dash air upgrade? [message #216222 is a reply to message #216050] |
Tue, 30 July 2013 07:02 |
Joe Weir
Messages: 769
Registered: February 2013
Location: Columbia, SC
Karma: 7
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| powerjon wrote on Sun, 28 July 2013 22:43 |
Bryan,
Jim K sells a Vintage Air AC unit at a very reasonable price.
http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/849
The alternative is to completely rebuild your dash installing modern ducts, vents and air handling units. I know of at least 2 projects of this sort, one was done by Bob Gummersall in 2003 & 2004 and included complete instructions, parts list and full size drawings. I do not know if Bob is still in GMC world, but I did find some of the pictures online. There is another set of pictures that I have not been able to find online, but have on a CD that show more on how it is put together. I also have the full size drawings which I purchased along with the CD back 2004.
file:///Volumes/Dash%20AC%20Conversion/acdash.htm
|
FYI, Link does not work. It is for a local file, not available to the web from that address.
76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
Columbia, SC.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dash air upgrade? [message #216237 is a reply to message #216222] |
Tue, 30 July 2013 08:59 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Joe,
I am sorry that the link does not work for you, it worked find when I checked, I will see if I can fix the problem.
JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion
Michigan
On Jul 30, 2013, at 8:02 AM, Joe Weir <joeweir@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> powerjon wrote on Sun, 28 July 2013 22:43
>> Bryan,
>>
>> Jim K sells a Vintage Air AC unit at a very reasonable price.
>>
>> http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/849
>>
>> The alternative is to completely rebuild your dash installing modern ducts, vents and air handling units. I know of at least 2 projects of this sort, one was done by Bob Gummersall in 2003 & 2004 and included complete instructions, parts list and full size drawings. I do not know if Bob is still in GMC world, but I did find some of the pictures online. There is another set of pictures that I have not been able to find online, but have on a CD that show more on how it is put together. I also have the full size drawings which I purchased along with the CD back 2004.
>>
>> file:///Volumes/Dash%20AC%20Conversion/acdash.htm
>
>
> FYI, Link does not work. It is for a local file, not available to the web from that address.
>
> --
> 76 Birchaven
> Columbia, SC.
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Dash air upgrade? [message #216244 is a reply to message #216238] |
Tue, 30 July 2013 09:24 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Your are correct. I am in the process of converting it to a file that I can use. Might take 24 hours when I get time today.
JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion
Michigan
On Jul 30, 2013, at 10:11 AM, Keith V <my427v8@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> powerjon wrote on Tue, 30 July 2013 08:59
>> Joe,
>> I am sorry that the link does not work for you, it worked find when I checked, I will see if I can fix the problem.
>>
>> JR Wright
>> 78 Buskirk Stretch
>> 75 Avion
>> Michigan
>
>
> It has to be on the internet for us to see it.
> You are looking at a file on your computer. Not going to work :(
>
>
> --
> Keith
> 69 Vette
> 29 Dodge
> 75 Royale GMC
> Mounds View. MN
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: Dash air upgrade? [message #216343 is a reply to message #216020] |
Tue, 30 July 2013 22:05 |
Adrien G.
Messages: 474
Registered: May 2008
Location: Burns Flat, OK 73624
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Bryan,
Before you do anything get hold of the article "Separating Hot from Cold" by Zay Brand Feb.1997. It's a very good article for explaining the different year models of upgrades and how to improve it.
I've got it in print, but my search hasn't led me to where I got it from. Hopefully some one else can point the way.
When I rebuilt the dash-firewall areas. I found real lack of insulation and numerous air leaks, an air duct that leaks at seams and joints, foam seals that are gone, a heater-AC box with no insulation, sucking most of the air from outside (when stopped it's engine heated air. Is it any wander your driving in an oven in summer, or refrigerated in winter cockpit.
The improvement doesn't just come from improving one thing. It comes in little increments from a lot of different related area to equal a big difference.
Hope this is of help to you.
| bhayes wrote on Sun, 28 July 2013 18:33 |
On one of the other recent topics, someone asked if there was an upgrade for the '73-'76 dash air that would bring it up to the arcticness of the '77-78s. My '76's dash air barely blows any air at all, though I have a noisy auxiliary unit bolted to the floor that works fairly well when the system has some refrigerant in it (which is on my to-do list).
So does any type of upgrade other than the auxiliary units exist? And is there a decent, quiet auxiliary unit out there?
|
Adrien & Jenny Genesoto
75 Glenbrook (26-3) Mods LS3.70 FD / Reaction Sys / 80mm Front&Intermidiate / Hydroboost / 16" Tires / Frame Rebuild / Interior Rebuild
Yuba City,Ca. Text 530-nine-3-three-3-nine-nine-6
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| Re: Dash air upgrade? [message #216356 is a reply to message #216020] |
Tue, 30 July 2013 23:42 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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Senior Member |
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| bhayes wrote on Sun, 28 July 2013 16:33 |
On one of the other recent topics, someone asked if there was an upgrade for the '73-'76 dash air that would bring it up to the arcticness of the '77-78s. My '76's dash air barely blows any air at all, though I have a noisy auxiliary unit bolted to the floor that works fairly well when the system has some refrigerant in it (which is on my to-do list).
So does any type of upgrade other than the auxiliary units exist? And is there a decent, quiet auxiliary unit out there?
|
We have a 74, so the dash unit is next to useless. We put in one of the Vintage Air units from JimK and are pleased. It blows cold air and you can adjust the directions so it is hitting you and your rider. I did have to replace the fan motor after about four years. Not sure what that was about because it is a standard double shaft motor used in many add on air handlers. The old one looked perfect other than the bearings would get tight. It was not all that expensive.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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| Re: Dash air upgrade? [message #216364 is a reply to message #216343] |
Wed, 31 July 2013 07:14 |
Joe Weir
Messages: 769
Registered: February 2013
Location: Columbia, SC
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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The important thing to consider is that it is a heating and cooling system. That system has active and passive parts that work together to keep you comfortable. We have a tendency to think that if we are not cool enough, it has to mean we need more equipment.
The old VW buses used waste heat from the exhaust manifolds to heat the vehicle by letting air wander down 12 feet of uninsulated cardboard tube to the dash vents. Needless to say, the heating system was dubious from the factory. The VW crowd is a lot like this one, with tinkerer's to full blown mechanical geniuses finding and publishing remedies to the factory solutions. There is a piece that was published back in the late nineties that is a good read for anyone wanting to keep a vehicle comfortable. The author bought a vw bus to use as a winter honeymoon vehicle. While it has a lot of vw specific information, there are a lot of good nuggets of information that apply to any vehicle, especially the bits on insulation and using recirculated air. Call it Zen for vehicle HVAC:
http://www.type2.com/library/heat/
| Adrien G. wrote on Tue, 30 July 2013 22:05 |
Bryan,
Before you do anything get hold of the article "Separating Hot from Cold" by Zay Brand Feb.1997. It's a very good article for explaining the different year models of upgrades and how to improve it.
I've got it in print, but my search hasn't led me to where I got it from. Hopefully some one else can point the way.
When I rebuilt the dash-firewall areas. I found real lack of insulation and numerous air leaks, an air duct that leaks at seams and joints, foam seals that are gone, a heater-AC box with no insulation, sucking most of the air from outside (when stopped it's engine heated air. Is it any wander your driving in an oven in summer, or refrigerated in winter cockpit.
The improvement doesn't just come from improving one thing. It comes in little increments from a lot of different related area to equal a big difference.
Hope this is of help to you.
| bhayes wrote on Sun, 28 July 2013 18:33 |
On one of the other recent topics, someone asked if there was an upgrade for the '73-'76 dash air that would bring it up to the arcticness of the '77-78s. My '76's dash air barely blows any air at all, though I have a noisy auxiliary unit bolted to the floor that works fairly well when the system has some refrigerant in it (which is on my to-do list).
So does any type of upgrade other than the auxiliary units exist? And is there a decent, quiet auxiliary unit out there?
|
|
76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
Columbia, SC.
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