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| Seat mounting [message #214248] |
Sat, 13 July 2013 18:12  |
bpimm
Messages: 211
Registered: June 2013
Location: Washougal Washington
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From the looks of the factory seat pedestals for the driver and passenger seats, they mount to the two cross members under the floor and the seat mounts to it, meaning that the driver and passenger seats are mounted to the metal frame structure. Ours doesn't have the metal pedestals and the seats are bolted through the plywood with just a fender washer backing it up. I'm going to guess this is not stock or safe seeing that the seat belts mount to the seat base. It seams to me that in a front end collision it would just mean that as you went through the windshield you would have the seat still firmly attached to your backside. Am I missing something in my assumptions?
I will need to add some framework to tie the seat base to the coach framework to rectify this before I take it on the road.
After tearing the carpet out of the dinette area behind the passenger seat I have found some questionable plywood decking that will need to be replaced. I didn't find any evidence of mounting points for any seating or seat belts.
This coach came with 2 of the steelcase (I think) couches one on each side where the floor plans show 1 couch and a dinette or 2 captains chairs and a small table. We have talked about it and will be trying to use the 2 couches facing each other. One of the couches has 4 legs with bolt tabs on the bottom and the other one doesn't have any legs at all and was sitting on the step and a chunk of a 4X6 at the door opening. If these are the original legs and functional I will make a set for the couch that is missing them.
These are the legs:
Are these the legs that these couches came with?
Do these look up to the job?
Thanks
Brian & RaeDean
1973 26' #383
Washougal WA
[Updated on: Sun, 14 July 2013 09:26] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Seat mounting [message #214277 is a reply to message #214248] |
Sun, 14 July 2013 00:16  |
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Richard RV
Messages: 631
Registered: July 2012
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| bpimm wrote on Sat, 13 July 2013 16:12 |
From the looks of the factory seat pedestals for the driver and passenger seats, they mount to the two cross members under the floor and the seat mounts to it, meaning that the driver and passenger seats are mounted to the metal frame structure. Ours doesn't have the metal pedestals and the seats are bolted through the plywood with just a fender washer backing it up. I'm going to guess this is not stock or safe seeing that the seat belts mount to the seat base. It seams to me that in a front end collision it would just mean that as you went through the windshield you would have the seat still firmly attached to your backside. Am I missing something in my assumptions?
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The stock pedestal on mine, which I just pulled, had 12 bolts with six of them going through the aluminum framing fore and aft. I've seen some small aftermarket pedestals installed with, maybe, 10"x10" bases bolted through the plywood only. Not a good situation.
Tying into the framing is critical. At the very least install a supplemental metal base or backing plate(s) to distribute the stress so the bolts don't just rip out.
I semi-recall a defensive driving instructor saying something about the force on a body in a head-on collision at 30 mph. It was something like a ton of force. His point - if you can bench press a ton, you can get by without the shoulder belt. 
Make it safe, and drive safer.
Richard
'77 Birchaven TZE...777;
'76 Palm Beach under construction;
‘76 Edgemont waiting its turn
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| Re: [GMCnet] Seat mounting [message #214280 is a reply to message #214277] |
Sun, 14 July 2013 01:34 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
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The lap belts in my 77 mount into the aluminum cockpit framing. If your cockpit seat belts mount to the floor it is likely that they do the same. It is easy to check by looking under the floor through the engine hatch opening. I would not trust a seat mounted seatbelt in a gmc unless the seat was mounted properly to the framing of the cockpit so the seat will have similar support which it had in the vehicle it was designed for.
Todd Sullivan
Sully
77 royale
Seattle
On Jul 13, 2013, at 10:16 PM, Richard <GMC77Birchaven@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> bpimm wrote on Sat, 13 July 2013 16:12
>> From the looks of the factory seat pedestals for the driver and passenger seats, they mount to the two cross members under the floor and the seat mounts to it, meaning that the driver and passenger seats are mounted to the metal frame structure. Ours doesn't have the metal pedestals and the seats are bolted through the plywood with just a fender washer backing it up. I'm going to guess this is not stock or safe seeing that the seat belts mount to the seat base. It seams to me that in a front end collision it would just mean that as you went through the windshield you would have the seat still firmly attached to your backside. Am I missing something in my assumptions?
>
>
> The stock pedestal on mine, which I just pulled, had 12 bolts with six of them going through the aluminum framing fore and aft. I've seen some small aftermarket pedestals installed with, maybe, 10"x10" bases bolted through the plywood only. Not a good situation.
>
> Tying into the framing is critical. At the very least install a supplemental metal base or backing plate(s) to distribute the stress so the bolts don't just rip out.
>
> I semi-recall a defensive driving instructor saying something about the force on a body in a head-on collision at 30 mph. It was something like a ton of force. His point - if you can bench press a ton, you can get by without the shoulder belt. ;)
>
> Make it safe, and drive safer.
>
> Richard
> --
> '77 Birchaven TZE...777
> Rear bath, interior pretty much original,
> Jasper 455, 3.50 final, Howell EFI w/EBL, Springfield, Thorley, 6 disks, Alcoas, currently installing a one ton front end
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: Seat mounting [message #214300 is a reply to message #214248] |
Sun, 14 July 2013 09:32 |
bpimm
Messages: 211
Registered: June 2013
Location: Washougal Washington
Karma: 2
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Are there any of the late model offset swivel bases available anywhere?
What about a good quality aftermarket swivel base I could incorporate into a custom base?
I'm thinking of Suburban Driver and Passenger seats with the shoulder harness built into the seat. Has anyone used these seats? My Parents have a Suburban and the seats are comfortable to me.
Thoughts
Thanks
Brian & RaeDean
1973 26' #383
Washougal WA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Seat mounting [message #214329 is a reply to message #214300] |
Sun, 14 July 2013 14:23 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
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Brian,
The suburban seats have not been used as far as I know, if some has tried them please chime in. They have a disadvantage on not having arm rest which is a really nice option and why many have used the Honda seats and the Honda seats fit the stock bases. The stock bases are offset when they swivel and they have a left and right side.
I have an an 6-way power seat base that swivel with the Honda seats.
JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion
Michigan
On Jul 14, 2013, at 10:32 AM, Brian Pimm <brian@pimmlabs.com> wrote:
>
>
> Are there any of the late model offset swivel bases available anywhere?
>
> What about a good quality aftermarket swivel base I could incorporate into a custom base?
>
> I'm thinking of Suburban Driver and Passenger seats with the shoulder harness built into the seat. Has anyone used these seats? My Parents have a Suburban and the seats are comfortable to me.
>
> Thoughts
>
> Thanks
> --
> Brian & RaeDean
>
> 1973 26' #383
>
> Washougal WA
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Seat mounting [message #214426 is a reply to message #214336] |
Mon, 15 July 2013 08:56 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
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Carl,
I have a Buskirk stretch and they were installed when it was built. The power seat base is an ITT Automotive RV-630 6-Way Power Seat Adjuster system. One just sold used on Ebay for $25. My suggestion is that there are a number of 6-way seat bases in the Men's mall that could possibly work. The seat base was mounted on a swivel base that was centered. My seats do swivel well, but I use it extremely rarely. One thing that you need to be carful in doing is raising the seat too high.
Here is a site that sells the RV-630 seat bases.
http://www.rvandvansurplus.com/powerbases.asp?Vehicletype=Van
http://www.rvandvansurplus.com/eshop/products/SRV630-14.jpg
This is what the base looks like. It has seat belt mounts.
http://www.discountvantruck.com/rvseatbases/rvFordseatbases.htm
Here are some sites that sell seat bases.
http://www.discountvantruck.com/rvseatbases/rvpowerbases.htm
JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion
Michigan
>
>
> powerjon wrote on Sun, 14 July 2013 12:23
>> I have an 6-way power seat base that swivel
>
>
> JR,
>
> What make/model power base do you have?
>
> Did it come with your GMC?
>
> If not, why did you select that one?
>
> Is the swivel centered or offset?
>
> I am currently trying to decide whether to go with stock offset swivel base's or some comparable aftermarket alternative.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Carl P.
> 76 Birchaven
> South of Fremont
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Seat mounting [message #214609 is a reply to message #214329] |
Tue, 16 July 2013 13:27 |
bpimm
Messages: 211
Registered: June 2013
Location: Washougal Washington
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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I didn't think about the arm rests... Do any other seats have the shoulder harness built into the seat, GM is the only one I know of. I just think it would be a simple solution for the lack of a 3 point seat belt.
Thanks
| powerjon wrote on Sun, 14 July 2013 12:23 |
Brian,
The suburban seats have not been used as far as I know, if some has tried them please chime in. They have a disadvantage on not having arm rest which is a really nice option and why many have used the Honda seats and the Honda seats fit the stock bases. The stock bases are offset when they swivel and they have a left and right side.
I have an an 6-way power seat base that swivel with the Honda seats.
JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion
Michigan
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Brian & RaeDean
1973 26' #383
Washougal WA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Seat mounting [message #214622 is a reply to message #214609] |
Tue, 16 July 2013 15:39 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Brian,
The seat that are typically used in the coach are not the front seats, but usually the center row seats as they come with arm rests and seat belts attached. We go to one of the large parts yards down by Pontiac where they pull and put the parts inside there warehouse and look thru their seat selection. I was looking for the shoulder belt that matched the Honda Odyssey seats ( <http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/men-s-mall-gems/p48480-honda-odyssey-center-row-seats.html > ) that I bought, but the mens mall wanted almost as much as I paid for the seats. I bought 2 replacement seat belts sets off ebay for much less than that the mens mall wanted for one of the shoulder belts. Just search for 3 point retractable seat belt. You can get extenders at: http://www.seatbeltextenderpros.com/main.sc
JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion
Michigan
On Jul 16, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Brian Pimm <brian@pimmlabs.com> wrote:
>
>
> I didn't think about the arm rests... Do any other seats have the shoulder harness built into the seat, GM is the only one I know of. I just think it would be a simple solution for the lack of a 3 point seat belt.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> powerjon wrote on Sun, 14 July 2013 12:23
>> Brian,
>> The suburban seats have not been used as far as I know, if some has tried them please chime in. They have a disadvantage on not having arm rest which is a really nice option and why many have used the Honda seats and the Honda seats fit the stock bases. The stock bases are offset when they swivel and they have a left and right side.
>> I have an an 6-way power seat base that swivel with the Honda seats.
>>
>> JR Wright
>> 78 Buskirk Stretch
>> 75 Avion
>> Michigan
>
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: Seat mounting [message #214649 is a reply to message #214248] |
Tue, 16 July 2013 19:25 |
Craig Lechowicz
Messages: 541
Registered: October 2006
Location: Waterford, MI
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Brian,
The seats with belts in them (cleverly called All Belts to Seats or ABTS) were pretty common in GM stuff in the late 90's and early '00's. They also used a setup like the Honda where only the in-board buckle was attached to the seat (called a "Traveling Inboard Buckle) on some vehicles like S10's from '98 to the end of production, and some years of minivans. I believe quite a few Chrysler products used ABTS in the same era but don't know for sure which ones. I know certain year Ram pickups had them, and quite a few of the cars like maybe Sebrings. For both GM and Chrysler there was a lot of motivation to use them on coupes, as it avoided a tangle for the rear seat passengers; and on convertibles, which don't have very many other solutions.
I'm far from an expert on vehicle safety, but I've been in more than my share of meetings with people who are. The odds of you getting a seat attached in a GMC as well as it has to be in a modern vehicle with ABTS are extremely small. Additionally, having just replaced my body pads, if it was much of a front end crash, it wouldn't surprise me if seat and GMC body travelled to the scene of the crash before the rest of the chassis did, so mixing attachments between the frame and body may not be a good thing. Either way around, there is a reason that forward control passenger vehicles with little to no front end crush space and without well engineered crash "pulses" don't exist in production any longer.
You may or may not improve your safety with a shoulder belt, but there are more than enough other issues involved that crashing a GMC is not going to be a pleasant experience.
Craig Lechowicz
'77 Kingsley, Waterford, MI
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| Re: Seat mounting [message #214654 is a reply to message #214649] |
Tue, 16 July 2013 19:50 |
bpimm
Messages: 211
Registered: June 2013
Location: Washougal Washington
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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| Craig Lechowicz wrote on Tue, 16 July 2013 17:25 |
Brian,
The seats with belts in them (cleverly called All Belts to Seats or ABTS) were pretty common in GM stuff in the late 90's and early '00's. They also used a setup like the Honda where only the in-board buckle was attached to the seat (called a "Traveling Inboard Buckle) on some vehicles like S10's from '98 to the end of production, and some years of minivans. I believe quite a few Chrysler products used ABTS in the same era but don't know for sure which ones. I know certain year Ram pickups had them, and quite a few of the cars like maybe Sebrings. For both GM and Chrysler there was a lot of motivation to use them on coupes, as it avoided a tangle for the rear seat passengers; and on convertibles, which don't have very many other solutions.
I'm far from an expert on vehicle safety, but I've been in more than my share of meetings with people who are. The odds of you getting a seat attached in a GMC as well as it has to be in a modern vehicle with ABTS are extremely small.
|
That's a good point on getting it mounted good enough, I was planning on tying it into the cross member at the back of the driver platform, I could get it strong enough that you would have to pull the cross member forward to move the seat. but I have also been thinking of adding swivels to the seat mounts and I'm pretty sure none of them would be strong enough.
| Quote: |
Additionally, having just replaced my body pads, if it was much of a front end crash, it wouldn't surprise me if seat and GMC body travelled to the scene of the crash before the rest of the chassis did, so mixing attachments between the frame and body may not be a good thing.
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Agreed no mounting would cross the chassis / body barrier.
| Quote: |
Either way around, there is a reason that forward control passenger vehicles with little to no front end crush space and without well engineered crash "pulses" don't exist in production any longer.
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Full forward roll cage anyone?
| Quote: |
You may or may not improve your safety with a shoulder belt, but there are more than enough other issues involved that crashing a GMC is not going to be a pleasant experience.
|
Agreed, crashing in not something you want to do, The shoulder belts in my mind are more for the intermediate level crash where you don't have the arm strength to hold yourself back but not the body leaving the frame type of crash, Just keeping the face from planting into the steering wheel or dash. For now I will just modify the bases that are in there to mount to the body framing instead of just the plywood. 
Brian & RaeDean
1973 26' #383
Washougal WA
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| Re: Seat mounting [message #214687 is a reply to message #214677] |
Wed, 17 July 2013 08:52 |
bpimm
Messages: 211
Registered: June 2013
Location: Washougal Washington
Karma: 2
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I look forward to the pictures, Thank you
Brian & RaeDean
1973 26' #383
Washougal WA
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| Re: Seat mounting [message #215006 is a reply to message #214248] |
Fri, 19 July 2013 14:26 |
1275gtsport
Messages: 272
Registered: September 2009
Location: Rothesay NB
Karma: 0
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Here is a couple of pics of the seats. I am told they maybe from a 2003-2006 Yukon Denelli they came with the rig but not installed.
I cut the cross pieces from the original seats and bent them. I did not bend them far enough and had to add some spacers to get the seats low enough so that my wife's feet could tough the floor.
I used grade 5 bolts and think they are at least a strong as what was there.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/our-palm-beach/p50002-07192013213.html
Adam Raeburn
Rothesay, NB
1976 Austin Mini
1977 GMC Palm Beach
---------------------------------------------------
Once you replace everything that is attached to something else. It will all be fixed.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Seat mounting [message #215105 is a reply to message #215006] |
Sat, 20 July 2013 09:32 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Adam,
Looking at the picture of the seats, it looks like your windshield windows are fogged around the edges badly.
JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion
Michigan
On Jul 19, 2013, at 3:26 PM, 1275gtsport@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> Here is a couple of pics of the seats. I am told they maybe from a 2003-2006 Yukon Denelli they came with the rig but not installed.
>
> I cut the cross pieces from the original seats and bent them. I did not bend them far enough and had to add some spacers to get the seats low enough so that my wife's feet could tough the floor.
>
> I used grade 5 bolts and think they are at least a strong as what was there.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/our-palm-beach/p50002-07192013213.html
>
>
> --
> Adam Raeburn
> Rothesay, NB
> 1976 Austin Mini
> 1977 GMC Palm Beach
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Seat mounting [message #215181 is a reply to message #215105] |
Sat, 20 July 2013 21:03 |
1275gtsport
Messages: 272
Registered: September 2009
Location: Rothesay NB
Karma: 0
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| powerjon wrote on Sat, 20 July 2013 11:32 |
Adam,
Looking at the picture of the seats, it looks like your windshield windows are fogged around the edges badly.
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Yes in fact they are. there were not too bad until last summer I put those silver reflective windshield things in, you know the kind to try and keep heat out of the vehicle. they seem to simply speed up the fogging.
This year I park with the windshield away from the sun most of the time. I would love to get a gusky (sp) windshield wrap for Phoebe but this year she is getting all new tires (old ones are over 8years old) maybe next year she will get glass.
we have only had her for a couple of years and have been upgrading anything that needed it. slowly slowly.
Adam Raeburn
Rothesay, NB
1976 Austin Mini
1977 GMC Palm Beach
---------------------------------------------------
Once you replace everything that is attached to something else. It will all be fixed.
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I mounted it to the OEM base. Can take pics later. Currently camping in it and internet connection is my phone.