Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] R-22 roof air - its over my head...
| [GMCnet] R-22 roof air - its over my head... [message #213099] |
Wed, 03 July 2013 00:16  |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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I thought I'd try to shoot the Duracool 22-A into the roof air on the coach. To my surprise when I took the shroud off the unit I saw that there already is a saddle tap on the low pressure side so the one I bought seemed unnecessary. The threaded fitting was a different size, so I screwed the new tap on as well. With two low pressure taps and a high pressure stub coming out of the compressor I thought I'd be able to hook up my gauge set and use the Duracool supplied gauge. Unfortunately the service label was faded to oblivion, so I have no idea how much R-22 the unit was designed for.
I pulled a vacuum for only a few minutes. Sadly there was refrigerant in the system when I began to draw it down. I only used my cheap Harbor Freight vacuum pump (the one that hooks up to a compressor) and my gauge set, on the already installed low and high ports, showed a vacuum.
I started putting in the Duracool R-22a to get an initial charge (per instructions). Waddling my bulk down the ladder I fired up the Onan so that I'd have plenty of voltage, and then turned on the air conditioner.
As the Duracool flowed into the low side and the gauge set swung up to about 20 psi I saw the pipe freeze up. After only a moment it thawed. I finished the first can and saw 30 lbs on the low side and 140 on the high side. Remembering the dash AC I thought perhaps I had overcharged the system and began to bleed off some Duracool. No luck - she kept blowing warm - all the way down to about. 12 psi.
I began to realize that I'm an idiot who knows little more about hvac than how to spell it. Acknowledging this fact is liberating. I now began to add the second can because I no longer needed a reason, and saw the low pressure hose begin to freeze at about 30 psi. I continued until I had 37-40 low and 170 high.
It's much cooler than it was, but I really have no idea what I'm doing. Its only about 68 degrees with the outside air at 80 I had such great luck with the dash air because others had gone before and showed me the way. I believe the roof air to be a nice unit. It's an Intertherm Polaris 13.5k btu unit with a heat strip. It has a scroll compressor and looks to be very well designed. A few cans of Duracool, if it works, and some stop leak might just get me through a few summers. By then hopefully Carrier will be back in the game and I'll have landed into a pot of gold.
I know there are AC experts here, and I know this is an oddity. Speculation is free! Am I on the right track, and the fact that I bled off so much Duracool prevented a happy ending? Is it likely that there is some internal blockage and the best thing to do is cut my losses and buy a block of ice? Could anyone speculate as to what low pressure I should look for? Any suggestions are appreciated.
Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
Fremont, CA
1976(ish) Palm Beach
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] R-22 roof air - its over my head... [message #213110 is a reply to message #213099] |
Wed, 03 July 2013 03:02  |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
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I know that on R-22 AC units the low side usually is in the 68 to 70 PSI area. While the high side is a little over 200. Unfortunately this does not mean much when you use Duracool R22.
It is a different refrigerant.
You probably need to pick up the phone and call them. I think they are in Ontario or Alberta.
Sorry, I'm not much help.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] R-22 roof air - its over my head... [message #213146 is a reply to message #213099] |
Wed, 03 July 2013 11:47 |
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wally
Messages: 643
Registered: August 2004
Location: Omaha Nebraska
Karma: 5
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| ljdavick wrote on Wed, 03 July 2013 00:16 |
I thought I'd try to shoot the Duracool 22-A into the roof air on the coach. To my surprise when I took the shroud off the unit I saw that there already is a saddle tap on the low pressure side so the one I bought seemed unnecessary. The threaded fitting was a different size, so I screwed the new tap on as well. With two low pressure taps and a high pressure stub coming out of the compressor I thought I'd be able to hook up my gauge set and use the Duracool supplied gauge. Unfortunately the service label was faded to oblivion, so I have no idea how much R-22 the unit was designed for.
I pulled a vacuum for only a few minutes. Sadly there was refrigerant in the system when I began to draw it down. I only used my cheap Harbor Freight vacuum pump (the one that hooks up to a compressor) and my gauge set, on the already installed low and high ports, showed a vacuum.
I started putting in the Duracool R-22a to get an initial charge (per instructions). Waddling my bulk down the ladder I fired up the Onan so that I'd have plenty of voltage, and then turned on the air conditioner.
As the Duracool flowed into the low side and the gauge set swung up to about 20 psi I saw the pipe freeze up. After only a moment it thawed. I finished the first can and saw 30 lbs on the low side and 140 on the high side. Remembering the dash AC I thought perhaps I had overcharged the system and began to bleed off some Duracool. No luck - she kept blowing warm - all the way down to about. 12 psi.
I began to realize that I'm an idiot who knows little more about hvac than how to spell it. Acknowledging this fact is liberating. I now began to add the second can because I no longer needed a reason, and saw the low pressure hose begin to freeze at about 30 psi. I continued until I had 37-40 low and 170 high.
It's much cooler than it was, but I really have no idea what I'm doing. Its only about 68 degrees with the outside air at 80 I had such great luck with the dash air because others had gone before and showed me the way. I believe the roof air to be a nice unit. It's an Intertherm Polaris 13.5k btu unit with a heat strip. It has a scroll compressor and looks to be very well designed. A few cans of Duracool, if it works, and some stop leak might just get me through a few summers. By then hopefully Carrier will be back in the game and I'll have landed into a pot of gold.
I know there are AC experts here, and I know this is an oddity. Speculation is free! Am I on the right track, and the fact that I bled off so much Duracool prevented a happy ending? Is it likely that there is some internal blockage and the best thing to do is cut my losses and buy a block of ice? Could anyone speculate as to what low pressure I should look for? Any suggestions are appreciated.
Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
Fremont, CA
1976(ish) Palm Beach
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Larry, here is a link to duracools instructions.
http://www.duracool.com/charts.html
PT chart link is on the page too
HTH
Wally Anderson
Omaha NE
75 Glenbrook
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| Re: [GMCnet] R-22 roof air - its over my head... [message #213152 is a reply to message #213099] |
Wed, 03 July 2013 12:50 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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I go along with that logic. As long as you don't exceed the SOA ( safe operating area) of the unit, it should be fine, and we expect lower pressures with the Duracool. Maybe watch the evap temp as you add and see if it will drop as you add while watching the gauges. At some point it will probably start to work real well. I wouldn't go further. Optimum might be at the point where 100% constant liquid is just available at the expansion valve. Right now it may be cycling liquid/ gas. I'm no Duracool expert so hopefully Emery will chime in here.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] R-22 roof air - its over my head... [message #213156 is a reply to message #213154] |
Wed, 03 July 2013 13:11 |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Interesting. My experience with the dash air - and the recommendation of so many with R-12a - lead me to think that lower pressure was better. I’d wager I bled off the better part of a full can of Duracool R-22a! If this works it might just help others keep the roof air operating for a few seasons.
Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, CA
On Jul 3, 2013, at 11:02 AM, A. wrote:
> JohnL455 wrote on Wed, 03 July 2013 12:50
>> ...we expect lower pressures with the Duracool. ...
> Looking at the charts, Duracool 22a and R22 are not as different as our experience with Duracool 12a and R12. There might not be much pressure difference in the R22 based units.
> --
> '73 23' Sequoia For Camping
> '73 23' CanyonLands For Sale
> UA (Upper Alabama)
> "Time is money. If you use YOUR time, you get to keep YOUR money."
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: [GMCnet] R-22 roof air - its over my head... [message #213160 is a reply to message #213099] |
Wed, 03 July 2013 13:22 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
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I got this e-mail today for what it is worth. No mention of R12a.
From: "U.S. Environmental Protection Agency" <usaepa@service.govdelivery.com>
Date: July 3, 2013, 5:37:32 AM EDT
To: <tel@utk.edu>
Subject: U.S. Environmental Protection Agency Daily Digest Bulletin
U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
News Release: EPA Warns Against Use of Refrigerant Substitutes That Pose Fire and Explosion Risk
07/02/2013
EPA Warns Against Use of Refrigerant Substitutes That Pose Fire and Explosion Risk
Release Date: 07/01/2013
WASHINGTON – The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is warning homeowners, propane manufacturers and sellers, home improvement contractors and air conditioning technicians of potential safety hazards related to the use of propane or other unapproved refrigerants in home air conditioning systems.
EPA is currently investigating instances where propane has been marketed and used as a substitute for HCFC-22 (R-22), a refrigerant that is widely used in home air conditioning systems.
Home air conditioning systems are not designed to handle propane or other similar flammable refrigerants. The use of these substances poses a potential fire or explosion hazard for homeowners and service technicians.
EPA is aware of incidents that have occurred both overseas and in the U.S. where individuals have been injured as a result of the use of propane and other unapproved refrigerants in air conditioning systems. We are investigating and will take enforcement actions where appropriate. Other names for these unapproved refrigerants include R-290, 22a, 22-A, R-22a, HC-22a, and CARE 40.
At this time, EPA has not approved the use of propane refrigerant or other hydrocarbon refrigerants in any type of air conditioner. Homeowners and technicians are strongly recommended to limit use of propane or other hydrocarbons to only those appliances specifically designed for these substances and that are properly marked to alert technicians that the equipment contains a flammable substance. EPA has approved the use of propane as a substitute refrigerant for R-22 in industrial process refrigeration systems and in new, stand-alone retail food refrigerators and freezers that are specifically designed to use flammable hydrocarbon refrigerants.
R-22 is being phased out of production and importation under the Montreal Protocol, an environmental treaty ratified by every country in the world designed to reduce and eventually eliminate the use of ozone depleting substances. EPA’s Significant New Alternatives Policy (SNAP) Program has already listed numerous refrigerants with improved environmental, health and safety profiles and continues to evaluate other refrigerants that can be used to replace R-22 and other ozone-depleting substances.
More information about the EPA’s SNAP program: http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/
More information about R-22a and alternatives for air conditioning: http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/r22a.html
###
News Release: EPA and Commerce Link U.S. Analysis and Companies in Environmental Solutions Toolkit
07/02/2013
EPA and Commerce Link U.S. Analysis and Companies in Environmental Solutions Toolkit
Release Date: 07/01/2013
WASHINGTON – The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the Department of Commerce are announcing the launch of an interactive online reference tool for international audiences that connects EPA environmental analysis and regulatory structure to U.S. solutions providers.
The U.S. Environmental Solutions Toolkit was developed as a joint venture between the EPA and the U.S. Department of Commerce’s International Trade Administration (ITA) to offer environmental stakeholders in other countries a broad perspective on the U.S. approach to specific environmental issues. The Toolkit is a web-based resource that combines EPA expertise on solving environmental challenges with ITA’s catalogue of U.S. providers of related technologies. The newly launched resource emphasizes user-friendliness, featuring a series of interactive menus, search functionality, and adaptive formatting to allow for a range of mobile uses.
“The environmental solutions toolkit shares EPA’s knowledge and experience with our global neighbors, making it easier to move environmental protection efforts from concepts and ideas to action,” said EPA’s Assistant Administrator for International and Tribal Affairs Michelle DePass, EPA and Commerce are working together to support the U.S. government Environmental Export Initiative to promote American environmental technology in the global marketplace and advance the President’s National Export Initiative by developing export opportunities.
The development of the toolkit is part of EPA’s export promotion strategy to facilitate strengthened environmental and human health protection efforts around the world while boosting job creation and economic activity in the U.S. Statistics from the Department of Commerce indicate the U.S. is a global leader in the environmental products and services sector, generating approximately $312 billion in annual revenues and employing nearly 1.7 million workers.
For more information or to participate, please visit www.epa.gov/international/exports, https://new.export.gov/envirotech/toolkit, or contact the Environmental Export Initiative at Envirotech@trade.
| ljdavick wrote on Wed, 03 July 2013 01:16 |
I thought I'd try to shoot the Duracool 22-A into the roof air on the coach. To my surprise when I took the shroud off the unit I saw that there already is a saddle tap on the low pressure side so the one I bought seemed unnecessary. The threaded fitting was a different size, so I screwed the new tap on as well. With two low pressure taps and a high pressure stub coming out of the compressor I thought I'd be able to hook up my gauge set and use the Duracool supplied gauge. Unfortunately the service label was faded to oblivion, so I have no idea how much R-22 the unit was designed for.
I pulled a vacuum for only a few minutes. Sadly there was refrigerant in the system when I began to draw it down. I only used my cheap Harbor Freight vacuum pump (the one that hooks up to a compressor) and my gauge set, on the already installed low and high ports, showed a vacuum.
I started putting in the Duracool R-22a to get an initial charge (per instructions). Waddling my bulk down the ladder I fired up the Onan so that I'd have plenty of voltage, and then turned on the air conditioner.
As the Duracool flowed into the low side and the gauge set swung up to about 20 psi I saw the pipe freeze up. After only a moment it thawed. I finished the first can and saw 30 lbs on the low side and 140 on the high side. Remembering the dash AC I thought perhaps I had overcharged the system and began to bleed off some Duracool. No luck - she kept blowing warm - all the way down to about. 12 psi.
I began to realize that I'm an idiot who knows little more about hvac than how to spell it. Acknowledging this fact is liberating. I now began to add the second can because I no longer needed a reason, and saw the low pressure hose begin to freeze at about 30 psi. I continued until I had 37-40 low and 170 high.
It's much cooler than it was, but I really have no idea what I'm doing. Its only about 68 degrees with the outside air at 80 I had such great luck with the dash air because others had gone before and showed me the way. I believe the roof air to be a nice unit. It's an Intertherm Polaris 13.5k btu unit with a heat strip. It has a scroll compressor and looks to be very well designed. A few cans of Duracool, if it works, and some stop leak might just get me through a few summers. By then hopefully Carrier will be back in the game and I'll have landed into a pot of gold.
I know there are AC experts here, and I know this is an oddity. Speculation is free! Am I on the right track, and the fact that I bled off so much Duracool prevented a happy ending? Is it likely that there is some internal blockage and the best thing to do is cut my losses and buy a block of ice? Could anyone speculate as to what low pressure I should look for? Any suggestions are appreciated.
Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
Fremont, CA
1976(ish) Palm Beach
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C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: [GMCnet] R-22 roof air - its over my head... [message #213162 is a reply to message #213099] |
Wed, 03 July 2013 13:37 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Considering the compressor windings a bathed in a flammable gas, they may have come to this conclusion. However with no oxygen is it really flammable? Same reason fire doesn't go back down your nat gas pipe at stove, water heater, furnace etc. Also electric fuel pumps are cooled by gasoline and tanks rarely explode. If you had mostly air in the system, a little Duracool and a sparky winding, yes it could explode. Pulling a vac this would be rare.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] R-22 roof air - its over my head... [message #213163 is a reply to message #213162] |
Wed, 03 July 2013 13:44 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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You are right sir, but my mind sees me with a beard, lighting a cig, and pushing the Schrader valve to see if there is gas in it.
| JohnL455 wrote on Wed, 03 July 2013 14:37 |
Considering the compressor windings a bathed in a flammable gas, they may have come to this conclusion. However with no oxygen is it really flammable? Same reason fire doesn't go back down your nat gas pipe at stove, water heater, furnace etc. Also electric fuel pumps are cooled by gasoline and tanks rarely explode. If you had mostly air in the system, a little Duracool and a sparky winding, yes it could explode. Pulling a vac this would be rare.
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C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: [GMCnet] R-22 roof air - its over my head... [message #213166 is a reply to message #213160] |
Wed, 03 July 2013 13:48 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
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Senior Member |
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| C Boyd wrote on Wed, 03 July 2013 13:22 |
I got this e-mail today for what it is worth. No mention of R12a.
From: "U.S. Environmental Protection Agency" <usaepa@service.govdelivery.com>
Date: July 3, 2013, 5:37:32 AM EDT
To: <tel@utk.edu>
Subject: U.S. Environmental Protection Agency Daily Digest Bulletin
U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
News Release: EPA Warns Against Use of Refrigerant Substitutes That Pose Fire and Explosion Risk 07/02/2013
EPA Warns Against Use of Refrigerant Substitutes That Pose Fire and Explosion Risk
Release Date: 07/01/2013
WASHINGTON – The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is warning homeowners, propane manufacturers and sellers, home improvement contractors and air conditioning technicians of potential safety hazards related to the use of propane or other unapproved refrigerants in home air conditioning systems.
EPA is currently investigating instances where propane has been marketed and used as a substitute for HCFC-22 (R-22), a refrigerant that is widely used in home air conditioning systems.
Home air conditioning systems are not designed to handle propane or other similar flammable refrigerants. The use of these substances poses a potential fire or explosion hazard for homeowners and service technicians.
EPA is aware of incidents that have occurred both overseas and in the U.S. where individuals have been injured as a result of the use of propane and other unapproved refrigerants in air conditioning systems. We are investigating and will take enforcement actions where appropriate. Other names for these unapproved refrigerants include R-290, 22a, 22-A, R-22a, HC-22a, and CARE 40.
At this time, EPA has not approved the use of propane refrigerant or other hydrocarbon refrigerants in any type of air conditioner. Homeowners and technicians are strongly recommended to limit use of propane or other hydrocarbons to only those appliances specifically designed for these substances and that are properly marked to alert technicians that the equipment contains a flammable substance. EPA has approved the use of propane as a substitute refrigerant for R-22 in industrial process refrigeration systems and in new, stand-alone retail food refrigerators and freezers that are specifically designed to use flammable hydrocarbon refrigerants.
R-22 is being phased out of production and importation under the Montreal Protocol, an environmental treaty ratified by every country in the world designed to reduce and eventually eliminate the use of ozone depleting substances. EPA’s Significant New Alternatives Policy (SNAP) Program has already listed numerous refrigerants with improved environmental, health and safety profiles and continues to evaluate other refrigerants that can be used to replace R-22 and other ozone-depleting substances.
More information about the EPA’s SNAP program: http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/
More information about R-22a and alternatives for air conditioning: http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/r22a.html
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I would ignore that notice the same as folks ignore the regulations on Duracool 12a.
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| Re: [GMCnet] R-22 roof air - its over my head... [message #213180 is a reply to message #213163] |
Wed, 03 July 2013 16:15 |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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I didn't know that this is such a well kept secret but, all three
refrigerants that are commonly being discussed here, R-12, R-134a, and
Duracool are Flammable. Two of them when combined with flames will generate
a very, very toxic gas. Guess which two. I will give you a hint, it is not
Duracool. As DuPont owns mfg rights to R-134a, guess why Duracool, which
is Mostly Propane, is outlawed in the good old USA. Duracool is
inexpensive, common, available..No trade secrets here, and no military
(think Chemical Warfare) purposes either. Wonder why the gov't wants to
keep DuPont healthy? It ain't to keep your GMC cool. All you current
Military guys and gals and all you veterans have a Great 4th of July.
Thanks for putting yourselves in harms way to keep the rest of us FREE.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 Gmc Royale 403
On Jul 3, 2013 11:45 AM, "Charles Boyd" <covered-wagon@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> You are right sir, but my mind sees me with a beard, lighting a cig, and
> pushing the Schrader valve to see if there is gas in it.
>
>
> JohnL455 wrote on Wed, 03 July 2013 14:37
> > Considering the compressor windings a bathed in a flammable gas, they
> may have come to this conclusion. However with no oxygen is it really
> flammable? Same reason fire doesn't go back down your nat gas pipe at
> stove, water heater, furnace etc. Also electric fuel pumps are cooled by
> gasoline and tanks rarely explode. If you had mostly air in the system, a
> little Duracool and a sparky winding, yes it could explode. Pulling a vac
> this would be rare.
>
>
> --
> C. Boyd
> 76 Crestmont
> East Tennessee
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: [GMCnet] R-22 roof air - its over my head... [message #213185 is a reply to message #213180] |
Wed, 03 July 2013 16:41 |
Ronald Pottol
Messages: 505
Registered: September 2012
Location: Redwood City, California
Karma: -2
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Senior Member |
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The critical DuPont manufacturing patent for Freon ("Process for
Fluorinating Halohydrocarbons", U.S. Patent #3258500) was set to expire in
1979. And we get R134a, which is rather toxic, 0.5% for 4 hours was enough
to kill a rat, and I've heard humans are worse.
Granted, propane is flammable, but so is gas. Do people with electric fuel
pumps have impact cutoffs like cars do? Do you have an automatic fire
extinguishing system? If so, I'd be fine with it,
On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 2:15 PM, James Hupy <jamesh1296@gmail.com> wrote:
> I didn't know that this is such a well kept secret but, all three
> refrigerants that are commonly being discussed here, R-12, R-134a, and
> Duracool are Flammable. Two of them when combined with flames will generate
> a very, very toxic gas. Guess which two. I will give you a hint, it is not
> Duracool. As DuPont owns mfg rights to R-134a, guess why Duracool, which
> is Mostly Propane, is outlawed in the good old USA. Duracool is
> inexpensive, common, available..No trade secrets here, and no military
> (think Chemical Warfare) purposes either. Wonder why the gov't wants to
> keep DuPont healthy? It ain't to keep your GMC cool. All you current
> Military guys and gals and all you veterans have a Great 4th of July.
> Thanks for putting yourselves in harms way to keep the rest of us FREE.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Or
> 78 Gmc Royale 403
> On Jul 3, 2013 11:45 AM, "Charles Boyd" <covered-wagon@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > You are right sir, but my mind sees me with a beard, lighting a cig, and
> > pushing the Schrader valve to see if there is gas in it.
> >
> >
> > JohnL455 wrote on Wed, 03 July 2013 14:37
> > > Considering the compressor windings a bathed in a flammable gas, they
> > may have come to this conclusion. However with no oxygen is it really
> > flammable? Same reason fire doesn't go back down your nat gas pipe at
> > stove, water heater, furnace etc. Also electric fuel pumps are cooled by
> > gasoline and tanks rarely explode. If you had mostly air in the system,
> a
> > little Duracool and a sparky winding, yes it could explode. Pulling a
> vac
> > this would be rare.
> >
> >
> > --
> > C. Boyd
> > 76 Crestmont
> > East Tennessee
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
> _______________________________________________
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--
Plato seems wrong to me today.
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| Re: [GMCnet] R-22 roof air - its over my head... [message #213208 is a reply to message #213185] |
Wed, 03 July 2013 19:21 |
Arthur Mansfield
Messages: 290
Registered: April 2010
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I have used Duracool 22a and 12a. The flash point of duracool 12a is higher than R 134a. I guess most have not gone to the duracool site and checked out there BS. When I ordered duracool I got a table as to what the max charge pressure should be a function of out side temperature for both 12a and 22a. I had cracked line on my upper unit when getting rid of a mud daubers nest on my fan. I decided to go to duracool and was glad I did. It cooled better and used less power to run. The duracool temperature/pressure chart for 22a.
http://www.coolearthinc.com/PDFs/temperaturePressureChart%2822a%29.pdf
For 12a
http://www.coolearthinc.com/PDFs/temperaturePressureChart%2812a%29.pdf
As for as fire risk it is nothing compared to gasoline. My concern with duracool is one has to be careful as to who works on the unit since duracool is not what they are used to.
I had a propane leak at the refrig when I purchased the unit. I leak checked all the connection and when doing a check of the systems. Found a sizable leak at the refrig connection to the propane system. Most of us have a propane system in our RV. How many have leack checked all the connections. I added more connection to the propane system by installing a tri-mode hot water heater. After I installed the hot water heater I took the RV down to service center and had them check the propane system for leaks and verify the tank was still good. They found a leak I had missed at the tank when I did a leak check of the system.
I have am adding fire suppression systems to my RV and not because of duracool. I can not see a leak in the duracool system reaching the right mixture to be as dangerous as a gasoline leak or a propane leak. How many have smelled gasoline in side the RV for one reason or other. I had a fuel plug go out and I was dumping gas on the ground. My sense of smell is not the best but my wife's is and she smelled gas and I stop and found the leak. I had installed mechanical fuel pump on a trip when mine went out. It had the extra line on it. I caped it off and did not give it another thought but the cap failed. Now that was dangerous if it had ignited. It was also a little stupid since I new the cap I used was really for vacuum and was not intend to stand up to the alcohol in the gas or event stand being in gas all the time.
Art & Doris
76 EL
On Jul 3, 2013, at 4:41 PM, Ronald Pottol wrote:
> The critical DuPont manufacturing patent for Freon ("Process for
> Fluorinating Halohydrocarbons", U.S. Patent #3258500) was set to expire in
> 1979. And we get R134a, which is rather toxic, 0.5% for 4 hours was enough
> to kill a rat, and I've heard humans are worse.
>
> Granted, propane is flammable, but so is gas. Do people with electric fuel
> pumps have impact cutoffs like cars do? Do you have an automatic fire
> extinguishing system? If so, I'd be fine with it,
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 2:15 PM, James Hupy <jamesh1296@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I didn't know that this is such a well kept secret but, all three
>> refrigerants that are commonly being discussed here, R-12, R-134a, and
>> Duracool are Flammable. Two of them when combined with flames will generate
>> a very, very toxic gas. Guess which two. I will give you a hint, it is not
>> Duracool. As DuPont owns mfg rights to R-134a, guess why Duracool, which
>> is Mostly Propane, is outlawed in the good old USA. Duracool is
>> inexpensive, common, available..No trade secrets here, and no military
>> (think Chemical Warfare) purposes either. Wonder why the gov't wants to
>> keep DuPont healthy? It ain't to keep your GMC cool. All you current
>> Military guys and gals and all you veterans have a Great 4th of July.
>> Thanks for putting yourselves in harms way to keep the rest of us FREE.
>> Jim Hupy
>> Salem, Or
>> 78 Gmc Royale 403
>> On Jul 3, 2013 11:45 AM, "Charles Boyd" <covered-wagon@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You are right sir, but my mind sees me with a beard, lighting a cig, and
>>> pushing the Schrader valve to see if there is gas in it.
>>>
>>>
>>> JohnL455 wrote on Wed, 03 July 2013 14:37
>>>> Considering the compressor windings a bathed in a flammable gas, they
>>> may have come to this conclusion. However with no oxygen is it really
>>> flammable? Same reason fire doesn't go back down your nat gas pipe at
>>> stove, water heater, furnace etc. Also electric fuel pumps are cooled by
>>> gasoline and tanks rarely explode. If you had mostly air in the system,
>> a
>>> little Duracool and a sparky winding, yes it could explode. Pulling a
>> vac
>>> this would be rare.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> C. Boyd
>>> 76 Crestmont
>>> East Tennessee
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>
>
>
> --
> Plato seems wrong to me today.
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