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[GMCnet] Today's Delay [message #212138] |
Mon, 24 June 2013 22:30 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726 Registered: March 2004 Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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It was rumored that I was departing Manny's today. False. Here's the
sordid tale of why I didn't, told with the permission of the participants:
Yesterday afternoon, as I was beginning to prepare things for my departure
early this morning, Manny got a call from the wandering Works. After their
2800 miles or so crossing the country in their new Clasco, they found
themselves stranded at exit 179 of US-101, just south of Pismo Beach, and
209 miles south of Manny.
Seems in P, N, D, S, & L, the transmission was going "Screech, Scrunch,
Grrrllls, Scrape,...", but in R sounding quiet. Said condition began
suddenly, without warning, while they were in a small shopping center. So
Jerry backed the coach out of the shopping center into an adjacent dead end
street with no traffic. After deteremining that the sounds seemed to come
from the rear of the transmission (chain drive), he called Manny.
Manny, being Manny, agreed to bring a replacement transmission, just
rebuilt last week and still on the workbench, down and install it. So, I
"volunteered" to join him -- BEFORE I heard that he planned to leave here
at 4:00 AM this morning! Too, late -- I was committed. Manny quickly
replaced the chain drive on the rebuilt transmission with a PowerDrive
chain set (for 3.50:1 overall gear ratio with a 3.07 final drive). We
loaded the van with the "few" tools needed for the trip: Tray full of
wrenches, Gantry with come-a-longs & chains, Floor jack, Jack stands, 10
gallon air compressor, 3 gallons of transmission fluid, New torque
converter, etc., etc., etc. We only forgot a few things.
Sure 'nuff, my 3:45 alarm went off and I'd just poured my coffee when Manny
came knocking at the door.
We found the Works' hiding place at about 8:00. By 10:30 Manny, with a
little help from me, had the transmission and torque converter replaced.
Can you believe that? Actually, Jerry claimed it was only about a 1:30
job since we'd had breakfast and conversation too.
Then the fun began: Jerry cranked the coach and moved it fore and aft a
few feet as a preliminary test. The parking pawl didn't seem to be
engaging correctly, so Manny crawled under to adjust the shift linkage
while I shifted and moved slightly fore and aft to test the results -- no
safety lectures, please. About the 3rd time I cranked the engine, we ALL
heard "Screech, Scrunch, Grrrllls, Scrape,..." -- "...what th'...???"
The first thing Jerry said was "That sounds just like it did before!"
We spent the next 3-4 hours trying to figure out what happened. The sounds
are obviously from the chain's drive sprocket hitting the chain cover -- a
hand on the the cover confirms it. We pulled the cover from the
just-removed transmission and found the witness marks, and loose sprocket,
that prove IT's noise was coming from there. After pulling the starter and
the torque converter dust cover, and unbolting the torque converter, we
could discern NO evidence of flex plate damage -- it offers normal
resistance to deflection and, when struck, rings like an undamaged item.
The crankshaft, pried fore and aft, shows no end play. So WHY did two
transmissions fail in the same way in quick succession? We still don't
know. Jerry and I have completely discounted the possibility that Manny
failed to secure the chain sprocket properly on the rebuilt transmission --
he's not quite as confident, but the possibility is VERY remote.
Something, somewhere, caused the two identical failures in quick
succession.
After great deal of debating the next step, we decided that the Works
should spend another night on the dead end street, then have the coach
towed to Manny's for further investigation -- repeating what we'd already
done today didn't seem to make much sense and we couldn't think of any
better alternative.
If, when the flex plate is removed and fully examined, it's not damaged and
the culprit, the final drive becomes the next suspect. I personally can't
imagine how a flaw there could telegraph so quickly back through the
transmission and take out the sprocket at the other end of the chain. But
Manny & Jerry recently saw another weird FD failure, so they're not as
skeptical as I am.
All in all, a very interesting, though disappointing, day. I've had my
shower and am about to crash for tonight. The last plan I heard was for me
to depart tomorrow, vacating the only spot available for the Works' coach.
But the last thing Manny said to me was, "I'll tell you the new plan in
the morning...".
Wish me luck! And the Works even more! Manny will make his own.
Ken H.
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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Re: [GMCnet] Today's Delay [message #212139 is a reply to message #212138] |
Mon, 24 June 2013 22:38 |
Jerry Wheeler
Messages: 246 Registered: January 2013
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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That Manny is something else. Proud to know him and call him a friend.
JR Wheeler 78 Royale NC/OR
On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 11:30 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> It was rumored that I was departing Manny's today. False. Here's the
> sordid tale of why I didn't, told with the permission of the participants:
>
> Yesterday afternoon, as I was beginning to prepare things for my departure
> early this morning, Manny got a call from the wandering Works. After their
> 2800 miles or so crossing the country in their new Clasco, they found
> themselves stranded at exit 179 of US-101, just south of Pismo Beach, and
> 209 miles south of Manny.
>
> Seems in P, N, D, S, & L, the transmission was going "Screech, Scrunch,
> Grrrllls, Scrape,...", but in R sounding quiet. Said condition began
> suddenly, without warning, while they were in a small shopping center. So
> Jerry backed the coach out of the shopping center into an adjacent dead end
> street with no traffic. After deteremining that the sounds seemed to come
> from the rear of the transmission (chain drive), he called Manny.
>
> Manny, being Manny, agreed to bring a replacement transmission, just
> rebuilt last week and still on the workbench, down and install it. So, I
> "volunteered" to join him -- BEFORE I heard that he planned to leave here
> at 4:00 AM this morning! Too, late -- I was committed. Manny quickly
> replaced the chain drive on the rebuilt transmission with a PowerDrive
> chain set (for 3.50:1 overall gear ratio with a 3.07 final drive). We
> loaded the van with the "few" tools needed for the trip: Tray full of
> wrenches, Gantry with come-a-longs & chains, Floor jack, Jack stands, 10
> gallon air compressor, 3 gallons of transmission fluid, New torque
> converter, etc., etc., etc. We only forgot a few things.
>
> Sure 'nuff, my 3:45 alarm went off and I'd just poured my coffee when Manny
> came knocking at the door.
>
> We found the Works' hiding place at about 8:00. By 10:30 Manny, with a
> little help from me, had the transmission and torque converter replaced.
> Can you believe that? Actually, Jerry claimed it was only about a 1:30
> job since we'd had breakfast and conversation too.
>
> Then the fun began: Jerry cranked the coach and moved it fore and aft a
> few feet as a preliminary test. The parking pawl didn't seem to be
> engaging correctly, so Manny crawled under to adjust the shift linkage
> while I shifted and moved slightly fore and aft to test the results -- no
> safety lectures, please. About the 3rd time I cranked the engine, we ALL
> heard "Screech, Scrunch, Grrrllls, Scrape,..." -- "...what th'...???"
>
> The first thing Jerry said was "That sounds just like it did before!"
>
> We spent the next 3-4 hours trying to figure out what happened. The sounds
> are obviously from the chain's drive sprocket hitting the chain cover -- a
> hand on the the cover confirms it. We pulled the cover from the
> just-removed transmission and found the witness marks, and loose sprocket,
> that prove IT's noise was coming from there. After pulling the starter and
> the torque converter dust cover, and unbolting the torque converter, we
> could discern NO evidence of flex plate damage -- it offers normal
> resistance to deflection and, when struck, rings like an undamaged item.
> The crankshaft, pried fore and aft, shows no end play. So WHY did two
> transmissions fail in the same way in quick succession? We still don't
> know. Jerry and I have completely discounted the possibility that Manny
> failed to secure the chain sprocket properly on the rebuilt transmission --
> he's not quite as confident, but the possibility is VERY remote.
> Something, somewhere, caused the two identical failures in quick
> succession.
>
> After great deal of debating the next step, we decided that the Works
> should spend another night on the dead end street, then have the coach
> towed to Manny's for further investigation -- repeating what we'd already
> done today didn't seem to make much sense and we couldn't think of any
> better alternative.
>
> If, when the flex plate is removed and fully examined, it's not damaged and
> the culprit, the final drive becomes the next suspect. I personally can't
> imagine how a flaw there could telegraph so quickly back through the
> transmission and take out the sprocket at the other end of the chain. But
> Manny & Jerry recently saw another weird FD failure, so they're not as
> skeptical as I am.
>
> All in all, a very interesting, though disappointing, day. I've had my
> shower and am about to crash for tonight. The last plan I heard was for me
> to depart tomorrow, vacating the only spot available for the Works' coach.
> But the last thing Manny said to me was, "I'll tell you the new plan in
> the morning...".
>
> Wish me luck! And the Works even more! Manny will make his own.
>
> Ken H.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Re: [GMCnet] Today's Delay [message #212144 is a reply to message #212138] |
Mon, 24 June 2013 23:57 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797 Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Awesome update ken. Keep em coming.
But add a happy ending please ;)
Todd Sullivan
Sully
77 royale
Seattle
On Jun 24, 2013, at 8:30 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> It was rumored that I was departing Manny's today. False. Here's the
> sordid tale of why I didn't, told with the permission of the participants:
>
> Yesterday afternoon, as I was beginning to prepare things for my departure
> early this morning, Manny got a call from the wandering Works. After their
> 2800 miles or so crossing the country in their new Clasco, they found
> themselves stranded at exit 179 of US-101, just south of Pismo Beach, and
> 209 miles south of Manny.
>
> Seems in P, N, D, S, & L, the transmission was going "Screech, Scrunch,
> Grrrllls, Scrape,...", but in R sounding quiet. Said condition began
> suddenly, without warning, while they were in a small shopping center. So
> Jerry backed the coach out of the shopping center into an adjacent dead end
> street with no traffic. After deteremining that the sounds seemed to come
> from the rear of the transmission (chain drive), he called Manny.
>
> Manny, being Manny, agreed to bring a replacement transmission, just
> rebuilt last week and still on the workbench, down and install it. So, I
> "volunteered" to join him -- BEFORE I heard that he planned to leave here
> at 4:00 AM this morning! Too, late -- I was committed. Manny quickly
> replaced the chain drive on the rebuilt transmission with a PowerDrive
> chain set (for 3.50:1 overall gear ratio with a 3.07 final drive). We
> loaded the van with the "few" tools needed for the trip: Tray full of
> wrenches, Gantry with come-a-longs & chains, Floor jack, Jack stands, 10
> gallon air compressor, 3 gallons of transmission fluid, New torque
> converter, etc., etc., etc. We only forgot a few things.
>
> Sure 'nuff, my 3:45 alarm went off and I'd just poured my coffee when Manny
> came knocking at the door.
>
> We found the Works' hiding place at about 8:00. By 10:30 Manny, with a
> little help from me, had the transmission and torque converter replaced.
> Can you believe that? Actually, Jerry claimed it was only about a 1:30
> job since we'd had breakfast and conversation too.
>
> Then the fun began: Jerry cranked the coach and moved it fore and aft a
> few feet as a preliminary test. The parking pawl didn't seem to be
> engaging correctly, so Manny crawled under to adjust the shift linkage
> while I shifted and moved slightly fore and aft to test the results -- no
> safety lectures, please. About the 3rd time I cranked the engine, we ALL
> heard "Screech, Scrunch, Grrrllls, Scrape,..." -- "...what th'...???"
>
> The first thing Jerry said was "That sounds just like it did before!"
>
> We spent the next 3-4 hours trying to figure out what happened. The sounds
> are obviously from the chain's drive sprocket hitting the chain cover -- a
> hand on the the cover confirms it. We pulled the cover from the
> just-removed transmission and found the witness marks, and loose sprocket,
> that prove IT's noise was coming from there. After pulling the starter and
> the torque converter dust cover, and unbolting the torque converter, we
> could discern NO evidence of flex plate damage -- it offers normal
> resistance to deflection and, when struck, rings like an undamaged item.
> The crankshaft, pried fore and aft, shows no end play. So WHY did two
> transmissions fail in the same way in quick succession? We still don't
> know. Jerry and I have completely discounted the possibility that Manny
> failed to secure the chain sprocket properly on the rebuilt transmission --
> he's not quite as confident, but the possibility is VERY remote.
> Something, somewhere, caused the two identical failures in quick
> succession.
>
> After great deal of debating the next step, we decided that the Works
> should spend another night on the dead end street, then have the coach
> towed to Manny's for further investigation -- repeating what we'd already
> done today didn't seem to make much sense and we couldn't think of any
> better alternative.
>
> If, when the flex plate is removed and fully examined, it's not damaged and
> the culprit, the final drive becomes the next suspect. I personally can't
> imagine how a flaw there could telegraph so quickly back through the
> transmission and take out the sprocket at the other end of the chain. But
> Manny & Jerry recently saw another weird FD failure, so they're not as
> skeptical as I am.
>
> All in all, a very interesting, though disappointing, day. I've had my
> shower and am about to crash for tonight. The last plan I heard was for me
> to depart tomorrow, vacating the only spot available for the Works' coach.
> But the last thing Manny said to me was, "I'll tell you the new plan in
> the morning...".
>
> Wish me luck! And the Works even more! Manny will make his own.
>
> Ken H.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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Re: [GMCnet] Today's Delay [message #212147 is a reply to message #212138] |
Tue, 25 June 2013 00:31 |
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hnielsen2
Messages: 1434 Registered: February 2004 Location: Alpine CA
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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You guys are best.
Gotta love Manny
Howard
Alpine Ca
All is well with my Lord
On Jun 24, 2013, at 9:57 PM, Todd Sullivan <sgltrac@gmail.com> wrote:
> Awesome update ken. Keep em coming.
>
> But add a happy ending please ;)
>
> Todd Sullivan
>
>
> Sully
> 77 royale
> Seattle
> On Jun 24, 2013, at 8:30 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>> It was rumored that I was departing Manny's today. False. Here's the
>> sordid tale of why I didn't, told with the permission of the participants:
>>
>> Yesterday afternoon, as I was beginning to prepare things for my departure
>> early this morning, Manny got a call from the wandering Works. After their
>> 2800 miles or so crossing the country in their new Clasco, they found
>> themselves stranded at exit 179 of US-101, just south of Pismo Beach, and
>> 209 miles south of Manny.
>>
>> Seems in P, N, D, S, & L, the transmission was going "Screech, Scrunch,
>> Grrrllls, Scrape,...", but in R sounding quiet. Said condition began
>> suddenly, without warning, while they were in a small shopping center. So
>> Jerry backed the coach out of the shopping center into an adjacent dead end
>> street with no traffic. After deteremining that the sounds seemed to come
>> from the rear of the transmission (chain drive), he called Manny.
>>
>> Manny, being Manny, agreed to bring a replacement transmission, just
>> rebuilt last week and still on the workbench, down and install it. So, I
>> "volunteered" to join him -- BEFORE I heard that he planned to leave here
>> at 4:00 AM this morning! Too, late -- I was committed. Manny quickly
>> replaced the chain drive on the rebuilt transmission with a PowerDrive
>> chain set (for 3.50:1 overall gear ratio with a 3.07 final drive). We
>> loaded the van with the "few" tools needed for the trip: Tray full of
>> wrenches, Gantry with come-a-longs & chains, Floor jack, Jack stands, 10
>> gallon air compressor, 3 gallons of transmission fluid, New torque
>> converter, etc., etc., etc. We only forgot a few things.
>>
>> Sure 'nuff, my 3:45 alarm went off and I'd just poured my coffee when Manny
>> came knocking at the door.
>>
>> We found the Works' hiding place at about 8:00. By 10:30 Manny, with a
>> little help from me, had the transmission and torque converter replaced.
>> Can you believe that? Actually, Jerry claimed it was only about a 1:30
>> job since we'd had breakfast and conversation too.
>>
>> Then the fun began: Jerry cranked the coach and moved it fore and aft a
>> few feet as a preliminary test. The parking pawl didn't seem to be
>> engaging correctly, so Manny crawled under to adjust the shift linkage
>> while I shifted and moved slightly fore and aft to test the results -- no
>> safety lectures, please. About the 3rd time I cranked the engine, we ALL
>> heard "Screech, Scrunch, Grrrllls, Scrape,..." -- "...what th'...???"
>>
>> The first thing Jerry said was "That sounds just like it did before!"
>>
>> We spent the next 3-4 hours trying to figure out what happened. The sounds
>> are obviously from the chain's drive sprocket hitting the chain cover -- a
>> hand on the the cover confirms it. We pulled the cover from the
>> just-removed transmission and found the witness marks, and loose sprocket,
>> that prove IT's noise was coming from there. After pulling the starter and
>> the torque converter dust cover, and unbolting the torque converter, we
>> could discern NO evidence of flex plate damage -- it offers normal
>> resistance to deflection and, when struck, rings like an undamaged item.
>> The crankshaft, pried fore and aft, shows no end play. So WHY did two
>> transmissions fail in the same way in quick succession? We still don't
>> know. Jerry and I have completely discounted the possibility that Manny
>> failed to secure the chain sprocket properly on the rebuilt transmission --
>> he's not quite as confident, but the possibility is VERY remote.
>> Something, somewhere, caused the two identical failures in quick
>> succession.
>>
>> After great deal of debating the next step, we decided that the Works
>> should spend another night on the dead end street, then have the coach
>> towed to Manny's for further investigation -- repeating what we'd already
>> done today didn't seem to make much sense and we couldn't think of any
>> better alternative.
>>
>> If, when the flex plate is removed and fully examined, it's not damaged and
>> the culprit, the final drive becomes the next suspect. I personally can't
>> imagine how a flaw there could telegraph so quickly back through the
>> transmission and take out the sprocket at the other end of the chain. But
>> Manny & Jerry recently saw another weird FD failure, so they're not as
>> skeptical as I am.
>>
>> All in all, a very interesting, though disappointing, day. I've had my
>> shower and am about to crash for tonight. The last plan I heard was for me
>> to depart tomorrow, vacating the only spot available for the Works' coach.
>> But the last thing Manny said to me was, "I'll tell you the new plan in
>> the morning...".
>>
>> Wish me luck! And the Works even more! Manny will make his own.
>>
>> Ken H.
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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All is well with my Lord
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Re: [GMCnet] Today's Delay [message #212149 is a reply to message #212144] |
Tue, 25 June 2013 01:02 |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548 Registered: March 2007 Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Holy cow! This is heroic on the part of both Manny and you. It makes a better story that Sharon and Jerry are such wonderful people. Convenient that the trouble waited a few thousand miles until they were only a few hundred away from The Man-ny.
You say it made the same noise, did it have any trouble engaging gears, going forward? Could it have been the other end of the engine, the timing chain? It just seems to me that after changing all that hardware, and still seeing the same issue, maybe that hardware wasn't to blame.
I wish I could help. I suppose I could offer our curb to you for the night - all I have is a 110v extension cord, but it is a quiet neighborhood! Still that doesn't help Jerry and Sharon, and I have no idea how to offer help to Manny. Maybe I could ask my nephew to send out a few pounds of good Portuguese Chourico from Providence for Manny and Deo.
Odd question - could it be a motor mount?
Larry Davick
Feeling Oddly Helpless In The Comfort Of His Own Home
A Mystery Machine
Fremont, Ca.
(and missing Rick Denny's sig line)
On Jun 24, 2013, at 9:57 PM, Todd Sullivan <sgltrac@gmail.com> wrote:
> Awesome update ken. Keep em coming.
>
> But add a happy ending please ;)
>
> Todd Sullivan
>
>
> Sully
> 77 royale
> Seattle
> On Jun 24, 2013, at 8:30 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>> It was rumored that I was departing Manny's today. False. Here's the
>> sordid tale of why I didn't, told with the permission of the participants:
>>
>> Yesterday afternoon, as I was beginning to prepare things for my departure
>> early this morning, Manny got a call from the wandering Works. After their
>> 2800 miles or so crossing the country in their new Clasco, they found
>> themselves stranded at exit 179 of US-101, just south of Pismo Beach, and
>> 209 miles south of Manny.
>>
>> Seems in P, N, D, S, & L, the transmission was going "Screech, Scrunch,
>> Grrrllls, Scrape,...", but in R sounding quiet. Said condition began
>> suddenly, without warning, while they were in a small shopping center. So
>> Jerry backed the coach out of the shopping center into an adjacent dead end
>> street with no traffic. After deteremining that the sounds seemed to come
>> from the rear of the transmission (chain drive), he called Manny.
>>
>> Manny, being Manny, agreed to bring a replacement transmission, just
>> rebuilt last week and still on the workbench, down and install it. So, I
>> "volunteered" to join him -- BEFORE I heard that he planned to leave here
>> at 4:00 AM this morning! Too, late -- I was committed. Manny quickly
>> replaced the chain drive on the rebuilt transmission with a PowerDrive
>> chain set (for 3.50:1 overall gear ratio with a 3.07 final drive). We
>> loaded the van with the "few" tools needed for the trip: Tray full of
>> wrenches, Gantry with come-a-longs & chains, Floor jack, Jack stands, 10
>> gallon air compressor, 3 gallons of transmission fluid, New torque
>> converter, etc., etc., etc. We only forgot a few things.
>>
>> Sure 'nuff, my 3:45 alarm went off and I'd just poured my coffee when Manny
>> came knocking at the door.
>>
>> We found the Works' hiding place at about 8:00. By 10:30 Manny, with a
>> little help from me, had the transmission and torque converter replaced.
>> Can you believe that? Actually, Jerry claimed it was only about a 1:30
>> job since we'd had breakfast and conversation too.
>>
>> Then the fun began: Jerry cranked the coach and moved it fore and aft a
>> few feet as a preliminary test. The parking pawl didn't seem to be
>> engaging correctly, so Manny crawled under to adjust the shift linkage
>> while I shifted and moved slightly fore and aft to test the results -- no
>> safety lectures, please. About the 3rd time I cranked the engine, we ALL
>> heard "Screech, Scrunch, Grrrllls, Scrape,..." -- "...what th'...???"
>>
>> The first thing Jerry said was "That sounds just like it did before!"
>>
>> We spent the next 3-4 hours trying to figure out what happened. The sounds
>> are obviously from the chain's drive sprocket hitting the chain cover -- a
>> hand on the the cover confirms it. We pulled the cover from the
>> just-removed transmission and found the witness marks, and loose sprocket,
>> that prove IT's noise was coming from there. After pulling the starter and
>> the torque converter dust cover, and unbolting the torque converter, we
>> could discern NO evidence of flex plate damage -- it offers normal
>> resistance to deflection and, when struck, rings like an undamaged item.
>> The crankshaft, pried fore and aft, shows no end play. So WHY did two
>> transmissions fail in the same way in quick succession? We still don't
>> know. Jerry and I have completely discounted the possibility that Manny
>> failed to secure the chain sprocket properly on the rebuilt transmission --
>> he's not quite as confident, but the possibility is VERY remote.
>> Something, somewhere, caused the two identical failures in quick
>> succession.
>>
>> After great deal of debating the next step, we decided that the Works
>> should spend another night on the dead end street, then have the coach
>> towed to Manny's for further investigation -- repeating what we'd already
>> done today didn't seem to make much sense and we couldn't think of any
>> better alternative.
>>
>> If, when the flex plate is removed and fully examined, it's not damaged and
>> the culprit, the final drive becomes the next suspect. I personally can't
>> imagine how a flaw there could telegraph so quickly back through the
>> transmission and take out the sprocket at the other end of the chain. But
>> Manny & Jerry recently saw another weird FD failure, so they're not as
>> skeptical as I am.
>>
>> All in all, a very interesting, though disappointing, day. I've had my
>> shower and am about to crash for tonight. The last plan I heard was for me
>> to depart tomorrow, vacating the only spot available for the Works' coach.
>> But the last thing Manny said to me was, "I'll tell you the new plan in
>> the morning...".
>>
>> Wish me luck! And the Works even more! Manny will make his own.
>>
>> Ken H.
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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Re: [GMCnet] Today's Delay [message #212170 is a reply to message #212138] |
Tue, 25 June 2013 09:49 |
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SeanKidd
Messages: 747 Registered: June 2012 Location: Northern Neck Virginia
Karma: 4
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Very interested in the PowerDrive chain kit, is this better than an FD replacement, it seems it would increase the overall revs inside the transmission expediting wear. A final drive would maintain original transmission rpm? Please explain benefits...can the chain be installed with trans in vehicle?
Sean and Stephanie
73 Ex-CanyonLands 26' #317 "Oliver"
Hubler 1-Ton, Quad-Bags, Rear Disc, Reaction Arms, P.Huber TBs, 3.70:1 LSD Honda 6500 inverter gen.
Colonial Travelers
[Updated on: Tue, 25 June 2013 09:51] Report message to a moderator
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Re: [GMCnet] Today's Delay [message #212175 is a reply to message #212170] |
Tue, 25 June 2013 10:27 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186 Registered: January 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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SeanKidd wrote on Tue, 25 June 2013 07:49 | Very interested in the PowerDrive chain kit, is this better than an FD replacement, it seems it would increase the overall revs inside the transmission expediting wear. A final drive would maintain original transmission rpm? Please explain benefits...can the chain be installed with trans in vehicle?
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Here is the info on the final drive from Jim K's site:
http://www.appliedgmc.com/level.itml/icOid/482
I have a 3.70 Limited slip and like it a lot.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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Re: [GMCnet] Today's Delay [message #212219 is a reply to message #212138] |
Tue, 25 June 2013 15:56 |
An87ttype
Messages: 157 Registered: September 2012
Karma: 0
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Wow what a story! I'm sorry to hear that it happend on the maiden voyage of such a beautiful coach. Even more sorry to hear that it didn't work out after such a gallant effort on Manny and yours part.
What I find totally amazing is that you were able to swap out the transmission in an hour and a half on some dead end street without lifts and power equipment. I sure would like to know more about how that was accomplished. Amazing!
Good luck to Sharon and Jerry. I hope they are on the road soon.
1975 Eleganza II
Hudson Valley NY
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Re: [GMCnet] Today's Delay [message #212225 is a reply to message #212219] |
Tue, 25 June 2013 16:37 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085 Registered: October 2008 Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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An87ttype wrote on Tue, 25 June 2013 13:56 |
What I find totally amazing is that you were able to swap out the transmission in an hour and a half on some dead end street without lifts and power equipment. I sure would like to know more about how that was accomplished. Amazing!
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I recently watched him swap mine out. No wasted moves. His metal tower he erects over the hatch is genius. Two come-a-longs and chains that are the exact length he needs. Just a pull or two to get the engine up and then a few clicks to lower the transmission.
I did learn this... I need a disconnect for the battery. Manny was working with an occasional spark taking the starter out. Hard to disconnect the battery when the nose of the coach is aimed for space and a disconnect would have been much easier.
After watching Manny I am confident I could swap a trans in about 37 hours. Ha.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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Re: [GMCnet] Today's Delay [message #212229 is a reply to message #212138] |
Tue, 25 June 2013 17:27 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565 Registered: July 2012 Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Don't know the 'new' plan but I spoke to Manny today and Ken is still there...
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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Re: [GMCnet] Today's Delay [message #212252 is a reply to message #212170] |
Tue, 25 June 2013 20:53 |
zhagrieb
Messages: 676 Registered: August 2009 Location: Portland Oregon
Karma: 0
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Sean, since the powerdrive is installed between the engine and the transmission the transmission speed remains the same while the engine runs faster. A change of differential ratio, on the other hand, would result in an increase of both engine and transmission speed.
Glenn
Glenn Giere, Portland OR, K7GAG
'73 "Moby the Motorhome" 26'
[Updated on: Tue, 25 June 2013 20:57] Report message to a moderator
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Re: [GMCnet] Today's Delay [message #212268 is a reply to message #212257] |
Tue, 25 June 2013 22:41 |
zhagrieb
Messages: 676 Registered: August 2009 Location: Portland Oregon
Karma: 0
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Sean, read the article Gene Fisher refers to for an answer to your question. Anything that gets your engine speed up into the 2500-2800 range will net you better torque/hp/performance. I have the powerdrive with stock rear ratio and it works out just fine.
Glenn
Glenn Giere, Portland OR, K7GAG
'73 "Moby the Motorhome" 26'
[Updated on: Tue, 25 June 2013 22:44] Report message to a moderator
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Re: [GMCnet] Today's Delay [message #212278 is a reply to message #212149] |
Tue, 25 June 2013 08:40 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726 Registered: March 2004 Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Larry,
We're 99+% sure the noise is from the drive sprocket hitting the cover.
All further speculation has been futile without disassembling everything
beside the road.
KenH
On Jun 24, 2013 11:02 PM, "Larry Davick" <ljdavick@comcast.net> wrote:
> Holy cow! This is heroic on the part of both Manny and you. It makes a
> better story that Sharon and Jerry are such wonderful people. Convenient
> that the trouble waited a few thousand miles until they were only a few
> hundred away from The Man-ny.
>
> You say it made the same noise, did it have any trouble engaging gears,
> going forward? Could it have been the other end of the engine, the timing
> chain? It just seems to me that after changing all that hardware, and
> still seeing the same issue, maybe that hardware wasn't to blame.
>
> I wish I could help. I suppose I could offer our curb to you for the night
> - all I have is a 110v extension cord, but it is a quiet neighborhood!
> Still that doesn't help Jerry and Sharon, and I have no idea how to offer
> help to Manny. Maybe I could ask my nephew to send out a few pounds of good
> Portuguese Chourico from Providence for Manny and Deo.
>
> Odd question - could it be a motor mount?
>
> Larry Davick
> Feeling Oddly Helpless In The Comfort Of His Own Home
> A Mystery Machine
> Fremont, Ca.
> (and missing Rick Denny's sig line)
>
> On Jun 24, 2013, at 9:57 PM, Todd Sullivan <sgltrac@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Awesome update ken. Keep em coming.
> >
> > But add a happy ending please ;)
> >
> > Todd Sullivan
> >
> >
> > Sully
> > 77 royale
> > Seattle
> > On Jun 24, 2013, at 8:30 PM, Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>
> wrote:
> >
> >> It was rumored that I was departing Manny's today. False. Here's the
> >> sordid tale of why I didn't, told with the permission of the
> participants:
> >>
> >> Yesterday afternoon, as I was beginning to prepare things for my
> departure
> >> early this morning, Manny got a call from the wandering Works. After
> their
> >> 2800 miles or so crossing the country in their new Clasco, they found
> >> themselves stranded at exit 179 of US-101, just south of Pismo Beach,
> and
> >> 209 miles south of Manny.
> >>
> >> Seems in P, N, D, S, & L, the transmission was going "Screech, Scrunch,
> >> Grrrllls, Scrape,...", but in R sounding quiet. Said condition began
> >> suddenly, without warning, while they were in a small shopping center.
> So
> >> Jerry backed the coach out of the shopping center into an adjacent dead
> end
> >> street with no traffic. After deteremining that the sounds seemed to
> come
> >> from the rear of the transmission (chain drive), he called Manny.
> >>
> >> Manny, being Manny, agreed to bring a replacement transmission, just
> >> rebuilt last week and still on the workbench, down and install it. So,
> I
> >> "volunteered" to join him -- BEFORE I heard that he planned to leave
> here
> >> at 4:00 AM this morning! Too, late -- I was committed. Manny quickly
> >> replaced the chain drive on the rebuilt transmission with a PowerDrive
> >> chain set (for 3.50:1 overall gear ratio with a 3.07 final drive). We
> >> loaded the van with the "few" tools needed for the trip: Tray full of
> >> wrenches, Gantry with come-a-longs & chains, Floor jack, Jack stands, 10
> >> gallon air compressor, 3 gallons of transmission fluid, New torque
> >> converter, etc., etc., etc. We only forgot a few things.
> >>
> >> Sure 'nuff, my 3:45 alarm went off and I'd just poured my coffee when
> Manny
> >> came knocking at the door.
> >>
> >> We found the Works' hiding place at about 8:00. By 10:30 Manny, with a
> >> little help from me, had the transmission and torque converter replaced.
> >> Can you believe that? Actually, Jerry claimed it was only about a 1:30
> >> job since we'd had breakfast and conversation too.
> >>
> >> Then the fun began: Jerry cranked the coach and moved it fore and aft a
> >> few feet as a preliminary test. The parking pawl didn't seem to be
> >> engaging correctly, so Manny crawled under to adjust the shift linkage
> >> while I shifted and moved slightly fore and aft to test the results --
> no
> >> safety lectures, please. About the 3rd time I cranked the engine, we
> ALL
> >> heard "Screech, Scrunch, Grrrllls, Scrape,..." -- "...what th'...???"
> >>
> >> The first thing Jerry said was "That sounds just like it did before!"
> >>
> >> We spent the next 3-4 hours trying to figure out what happened. The
> sounds
> >> are obviously from the chain's drive sprocket hitting the chain cover
> -- a
> >> hand on the the cover confirms it. We pulled the cover from the
> >> just-removed transmission and found the witness marks, and loose
> sprocket,
> >> that prove IT's noise was coming from there. After pulling the starter
> and
> >> the torque converter dust cover, and unbolting the torque converter, we
> >> could discern NO evidence of flex plate damage -- it offers normal
> >> resistance to deflection and, when struck, rings like an undamaged item.
> >> The crankshaft, pried fore and aft, shows no end play. So WHY did two
> >> transmissions fail in the same way in quick succession? We still don't
> >> know. Jerry and I have completely discounted the possibility that Manny
> >> failed to secure the chain sprocket properly on the rebuilt
> transmission --
> >> he's not quite as confident, but the possibility is VERY remote.
> >> Something, somewhere, caused the two identical failures in quick
> >> succession.
> >>
> >> After great deal of debating the next step, we decided that the Works
> >> should spend another night on the dead end street, then have the coach
> >> towed to Manny's for further investigation -- repeating what we'd
> already
> >> done today didn't seem to make much sense and we couldn't think of any
> >> better alternative.
> >>
> >> If, when the flex plate is removed and fully examined, it's not damaged
> and
> >> the culprit, the final drive becomes the next suspect. I personally
> can't
> >> imagine how a flaw there could telegraph so quickly back through the
> >> transmission and take out the sprocket at the other end of the chain.
> But
> >> Manny & Jerry recently saw another weird FD failure, so they're not as
> >> skeptical as I am.
> >>
> >> All in all, a very interesting, though disappointing, day. I've had my
> >> shower and am about to crash for tonight. The last plan I heard was
> for me
> >> to depart tomorrow, vacating the only spot available for the Works'
> coach.
> >> But the last thing Manny said to me was, "I'll tell you the new plan in
> >> the morning...".
> >>
> >> Wish me luck! And the Works even more! Manny will make his own.
> >>
> >> Ken H.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> GMCnet mailing list
> >> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
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> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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Re: [GMCnet] Today's Delay [message #212292 is a reply to message #212257] |
Wed, 26 June 2013 07:50 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412 Registered: May 2011 Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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There has ben much discussion pros and cons of each method. I've been following because I want to increase the numeric ratio whenever I replace a major component, either engine or trans. What I have gleaned is, the power drive is going to increase engine speed but transmission speed will be unchanged for any given road speed. Therefore, transmossion load will be unchanged for any given road speed (and coach weight). The driveline will be operating like a stock 3.07, but the engine will be turning faster. Change the diff ratio, and the load on the driveline will decrease but the entire trans will now be turning at the (higher) engine speed. Torque throuigh the trans will be reduced. You pays your money and you takes your chierce. I live in the rural Southeast where it's flat, my maximum pull is over Monteagle,. TN a couple of tuimes a year and the coch survives it with the stock setup. Consequently, I lean towards a 3.50 or 3.55
ratio, just enough to get the (stock) converter a bit further up past the stall speed in normal operation. If I ran the appalachains or Points West, I'd opt for the 3.70 in my 23' coach.
--johnny
________________________________
From: Sean Kidd <fiatkidd@yahoo.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Today's Delay
Thanks for the input...would the net torque be the same...PowerDrive with stock
3.07 versus stock chain and 3.55 Final drive?
--
73 Ex-CanyonLands 26' #317 "Oliver"
Hubler 1-Ton, Quadra Bags, Rear Disc, Reaction Arms,
Fluorescent Mineral Capital of the World, New Jersey
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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Re: [GMCnet] Today's Delay [message #212295 is a reply to message #212292] |
Wed, 26 June 2013 08:06 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117 Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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in my mind the issue is:
1 if your tranny breaks,
- you can change the ratio there ( without mods to the final drive, etal)
2 if your final drive breaks
- you can change the ratio there ( with out mods to the tranny)
makes no difference where you pick up the rpms
Manny only fixes broken, trannys
If It ain't broke don't fix it
spend your money as you want
JWID
GENE
On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 5:50 AM, Johnny Bridges <jhbridges@ymail.com> wrote:
> There has ben much discussion pros and cons of each method. I've been
> following because I want to increase the numeric ratio whenever I replace a
> major component, either engine or trans. What I have gleaned is, the power
> drive is going to increase engine speed but transmission speed will be
> unchanged for any given road speed. Therefore, transmossion load will be
> unchanged for any given road speed (and coach weight). The driveline will
> be operating like a stock 3.07, but the engine will be turning faster.
> Change the diff ratio, and the load on the driveline will decrease but the
> entire trans will now be turning at the (higher) engine speed. Torque
> throuigh the trans will be reduced. You pays your money and you takes your
> chierce. I live in the rural Southeast where it's flat, my maximum pull is
> over Monteagle,. TN a couple of tuimes a year and the coch survives it with
> the stock setup. Consequently, I lean towards a 3.50 or 3.55
> ratio, just enough to get the (stock) converter a bit further up past the
> stall speed in normal operation. If I ran the appalachains or Points West,
> I'd opt for the 3.70 in my 23' coach.
>
> --johnny
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Sean Kidd <fiatkidd@yahoo.com>
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 10:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Today's Delay
>
>
>
>
> Thanks for the input...would the net torque be the same...PowerDrive with
> stock
> 3.07 versus stock chain and 3.55 Final drive?
> --
> 73 Ex-CanyonLands 26' #317 "Oliver"
> Hubler 1-Ton, Quadra Bags, Rear Disc, Reaction Arms,
> Fluorescent Mineral Capital of the World, New Jersey
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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Re: [GMCnet] Today's Delay [message #212303 is a reply to message #212292] |
Wed, 26 June 2013 08:54 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797 Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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I have a 3.21 planetary fd and caspro chain and gear set which works out to about a 3.55 which I removed in fine working condition from The Pig in order to install a new 355 lim slip from Jim k. It is available if anyone is interested.
The final drive is at Jim hupys place in Salem and the chain set is with me in Seattle. I am hoping to make the western states rally at coos bay in October and can bring if someone is seriously interested. I would like to fetch ~$800 or so for the stuff to offset the new lim slip final drive. I thought about saving it for the " next " one. But then thinking about the "next" one with the scale of project the current one evolved into just makes me look that much more insane...... :/
Todd Sullivan
Sully
77 royale
Seattle
On Jun 26, 2013, at 5:50 AM, Johnny Bridges <jhbridges@ymail.com> wrote:
> There has ben much discussion pros and cons of each method. I've been following because I want to increase the numeric ratio whenever I replace a major component, either engine or trans. What I have gleaned is, the power drive is going to increase engine speed but transmission speed will be unchanged for any given road speed. Therefore, transmossion load will be unchanged for any given road speed (and coach weight). The driveline will be operating like a stock 3.07, but the engine will be turning faster. Change the diff ratio, and the load on the driveline will decrease but the entire trans will now be turning at the (higher) engine speed. Torque throuigh the trans will be reduced. You pays your money and you takes your chierce. I live in the rural Southeast where it's flat, my maximum pull is over Monteagle,. TN a couple of tuimes a year and the coch survives it with the stock setup. Consequently, I lean towards a 3.50 or 3.55
> ratio, just enough to get the (stock) converter a bit further up past the stall speed in normal operation. If I ran the appalachains or Points West, I'd opt for the 3.70 in my 23' coach.
>
> --johnny
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Sean Kidd <fiatkidd@yahoo.com>
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 10:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Today's Delay
>
>
>
>
> Thanks for the input...would the net torque be the same...PowerDrive with stock
> 3.07 versus stock chain and 3.55 Final drive?
> --
> 73 Ex-CanyonLands 26' #317 "Oliver"
> Hubler 1-Ton, Quadra Bags, Rear Disc, Reaction Arms,
> Fluorescent Mineral Capital of the World, New Jersey
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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