Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Assessing coach to purchase - brake master cylinder (Water and/or sludge)
| Assessing coach to purchase - brake master cylinder [message #212079] |
Mon, 24 June 2013 16:19  |
Tilerpep
Messages: 404
Registered: June 2013
Location: Raleigh, NC
Karma: 7
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I am assessing a coach - next big question:
I have opened the master cylinder and the front compartment is watery/gelled/rusty. Back looks clear.
I have moved coach ten feet forward and back, and brakes do work, but do not instill confidence. Rotors and drums are rusty so would take a few miles to seat again anyway...
Is front cylinder the front brakes?
Should I assume anything horrible has happened to the whole system, or is water lighter and might be contained to the high side? I wonder if I am looking at new lines/cylinder/calipers, etc. or just a flush and check.
Thanks,
Tyler
1975 Glenbrook, 1978 Royale rear bath
Raleigh, NC
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| Re: Assessing coach to purchase - brake master cylinder [message #212086 is a reply to message #212079] |
Mon, 24 June 2013 16:44  |
Craig Lechowicz
Messages: 541
Registered: October 2006
Location: Waterford, MI
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I can speak from experience that master cylinders can fail suddenly and unexpectedly, and there is no more helpless feeling in the world. So, I would at least replace that and do a good flush and bleed of the brake fluid. If you don't break any bleeder screws, and don't see any leaks, you may be okay. But, as someone else mentioned, the old rubber hoses go bad, and can deteriorate inside, and sort of act like a check valve and keep the brakes on when you don't want them. Seems to happen on the front more often than the rear, but if I was going on a long trip, and didn't change them, I'd have a set of them with me.
Craig Lechowicz
'77 Kingsley, Waterford, MI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Assessing coach to purchase - brake master cylinder [message #212089 is a reply to message #212086] |
Mon, 24 June 2013 16:46 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
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On Jun 24, 2013, at 3:44 PM, Craig Lechowicz wrote:
>
>
> I can speak from experience that master cylinders can fail suddenly and unexpectedly, and there is no more helpless feeling in the world. So, I would at least replace that and do a good flush and bleed of the brake fluid. If you don't break any bleeder screws, and don't see any leaks, you may be okay. But, as someone else mentioned, the old rubber hoses go bad, and can deteriorate inside, and sort of act like a check valve and keep the brakes on when you don't want them. Seems to happen on the front more often than the rear, but if I was going on a long trip, and didn't change them, I'd have a set of them with me.
> --
> Craig Lechowicz
> '77 Kingsley, Waterford, MI
> _______________________________________________
If you decide to just take the hoses with you plan on packing a couple of quarts of brake fluid along as well just in case you have to do a "side of the road" repair.
Emeery Stora
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| Re: [GMCnet] Assessing coach to purchase - brake master cylinder [message #212093 is a reply to message #212079] |
Mon, 24 June 2013 16:53 |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
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Does this sound like rainwater getting in to the front chamber of the master cylinder? Isn't this why many have placed a plastic or rubber sheet over the master cylinder?
Larry Davick
Fremont, California
A Mystery Machine
'76 (ish) Palm Beach
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tyler" <tilertown@hotmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 2:19:09 PM
Subject: [GMCnet] Assessing coach to purchase - brake master cylinder
I am assessing a coach - next big question:
I have opened the master cylinder and the front compartment is watery/gelled/rusty. Back looks clear.
I have moved coach ten feet forward and back, and brakes do work, but do not instill confidence. Rotors and drums are rusty so would take a few miles to seat again anyway...
Is front cylinder the front brakes?
Should I assume anything horrible has happened to the whole system, or is water lighter and might be contained to the high side? I wonder if I am looking at new lines/cylinder/calipers, etc. or just a flush and check.
Thanks,
Tyler
--
Potential owner
1975 Eleganza
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: Assessing coach to purchase - brake master cylinder [message #212094 is a reply to message #212079] |
Mon, 24 June 2013 16:55 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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If you notice, replacing the master cylinder is actually extremely easy. the work is in the bleeding, not the changing.
so with that said,
install a new master cylinder(takes about 10-15 minutes), buy one of Jim Hupy's bleeders, or find someone that has one. and flush out the lines. with his bleeder, that will take about another 10-15 minutes.
then you can see where you are at with the brake fluid.
The others are right, I would not skimp on the brakes. any GMc that has been sat for any length of time a person should really at least take apart and inspect very closely, Brakes, Bearings, and fuel lines. those jobs are really not that tough to do, and I do not think the parts are too crazy expensive either.
If you do not personally check the above very closely, and know and feel comfortable with the shape they are in, you could be in for some real trouble.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: [GMCnet] Assessing coach to purchase - brake master cylinder [message #212137 is a reply to message #212111] |
Mon, 24 June 2013 22:32 |
Tilerpep
Messages: 404
Registered: June 2013
Location: Raleigh, NC
Karma: 7
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Thanks for the replies and input everyone!
I will try for pics tomorrow.
MC cap front underside looked like rust stalactites, and back looked like new metal. visible oil/water look in front cylinder fluid.
Some sites sound like getting right MC is tricky. some say replace booster as a matter of practice. some say little bar or pin or something is motorhome specific.
Do I go to parts store and ask for toronado master cylinder, or another part number? what about the combination valve? I know a place that does custom hoses, will I need to go that route, or are there part numbers for hoses (realizing that I could order in from well known GMCMH supplier if unavailable locally)?
1975 Glenbrook, 1978 Royale rear bath
Raleigh, NC
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| Re: [GMCnet] Assessing coach to purchase - brake master cylinder [message #212150 is a reply to message #212105] |
Tue, 25 June 2013 01:26 |
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ljdavick
Messages: 3548
Registered: March 2007
Location: Fremont, CA
Karma: -3
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Bill,
My big extravagance when the coach was with Tom Hampton was to have all brake lines replaced with his stainless lines. Some have likened them to jewelry, but after awhile they are just peace of mind. I don't worry about my brakes. Well, not until I start reading about how much better they could be with a reaction arm and a 1 Ton front end!
Larry Davick
On Jun 24, 2013, at 4:46 PM, bill schurman <lizzie1243@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I had a rear steel line rust through and developed a pin hole leak several years ago. Not fun driving w/o brakes. And my GMC is not plauged with rust to any extent in the rest of the coach.
>
> Bill Schurman
> Steamboat, Springs, CO Ski Town USA
> at the base of Rabbit Ears Pass (7% grade)
> '78 Palm Beach TZE 168V100258
> '66 Porsche 912
> '97 Expedition
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Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, Ca
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Dizzy
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| Re: Assessing coach to purchase - brake master cylinder [message #212191 is a reply to message #212079] |
Tue, 25 June 2013 12:56 |
Cadillackeeper
Messages: 464
Registered: October 2012
Location: Fort Lauderdale
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I recently had a no brake situation,it was the cover leaking fluid out everytime the brakes were applied so after about 10 stops the pedal went "Away".It also seen a bit of water.New lid,new fliud a few pumps on the pedal and been good ever since.
All my rubber lines are relatively new but on my Eldo with the 4 piston calipers,when the rubber goes,it locks those babys right up.The only way to move the car is to either cut the line or open the bleader and try to push all pistons back equally.Its almost impossible.So change the rubber lines!
77 455 Elaganza II and 67 Animal, Built 500 Powered Eldo
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| Re: Assessing coach to purchase - brake master cylinder [message #212198 is a reply to message #212079] |
Tue, 25 June 2013 14:03 |
Darryl
Messages: 144
Registered: December 2011
Location: Northern California
Karma: 0
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Applied GMC has all the parts. Master Cylinder is only $39.00. Proportioning Valve is $128. I went with stainless steel hoses - a total of almost $300. Rubber hoses are much less.
Support our vendors and get the right part the first time along with whatever technical advice you need.
Darryl Meyers
1978 Eleganza II
El Dorado Hills, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Assessing coach to purchase - brake master cylinder [message #212215 is a reply to message #212191] |
Tue, 25 June 2013 15:29 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Anthony,
Where did you get four piston calipers for your Eldo?
How do they attach to the front knuckles?
Regards,
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: anthony ezzo
I recently had a no brake situation,it was the cover leaking fluid out everytime the brakes were applied so after about 10 stops the
pedal went "Away".It also seen a bit of water.New lid,new fliud a few pumps on the pedal and been good ever since.
All my rubber lines are relatively new but on my Eldo with the 4 piston calipers,when the rubber goes,it locks those babys right
up.The only way to move the car is to either cut the line or open the bleader and try to push all pistons back equally.Its almost
impossible.So change the rubber lines!
--
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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