| External oil cooler [message #210835] |
Wed, 12 June 2013 16:20  |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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I have a 5 year old Aluminum radiator from Motorhome enhancements. Given all the crap that was in my oil and the fact that in my experience (and Bill Bramlett's), it is impossible to clean one of them out, I want to go to an external oil cooler. No future in having a new engine if you're going to put potential crap back in the oil as it circulates.
Who is using what, where do you have it mounted, etc?
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: External oil cooler [message #210898 is a reply to message #210835] |
Wed, 12 June 2013 22:51  |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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If you are towing and or live in a mountain state an external oil cooler is a good thing. I tow and live in a mountain state and I have the aluminum radiator and found I also needed a 2nd external cooler to lower the oil temperature while climbing mountain grades towing my 2800 lb. Toyota on a warm day under these conditions 240 degrees oil temp.is a common thing. I have a 370 final gear.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: External oil cooler [message #210902 is a reply to message #210898] |
Wed, 12 June 2013 23:46 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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I asked this question before and I think the answer I got was: all oil from the engine, when not in bypass mode, goes to the cooler and is returned to the oil filter where it is filtered BEFORE it goes into the engine. If this is true then all you have to do is make sure you do not use a filter with a built in bypass. As I understand it there already is a bypass in the engine separate from the bypass in the filter so a bypass filter is not needed.
Tell me where I am wrong.
Ken B.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: External oil cooler [message #210904 is a reply to message #210902] |
Thu, 13 June 2013 00:54 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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| Ken Burton wrote on Wed, 12 June 2013 21:46 |
I asked this question before and I think the answer I got was: all oil from the engine, when not in bypass mode, goes to the cooler and is returned to the oil filter where it is filtered BEFORE it goes into the engine. If this is true then all you have to do is make sure you do not use a filter with a built in bypass. As I understand it there already is a bypass in the engine separate from the bypass in the filter so a bypass filter is not needed.
Tell me where I am wrong.
Ken B.
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I agree with your understanding of the oil flow. As far as I know the olds filter doesn't have a bypass in it at least the ones I cut open didn't have a bypass. The only bypass is in the filter housing. I would think on cold start up the bypass valve could easily bypass some oil from the unfiltered side of the filter directly into the engine oil feed line.i have a friend that plugged up that bypass in his 454 Chevy engine ( in a Chevy ) that is tempting but I wouldn't want to chance loosing an engine for lack of enough oil flow under certain conditions.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: External oil cooler [message #210910 is a reply to message #210904] |
Thu, 13 June 2013 03:07 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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I do not understand how you could get oil from the unfiltered side of the filter all the way back to the bypass. To get there the oil would have to flow backwards through 5 or 6 feet of oil lines plus the distance through the oil cooler while the engine is trying to force the oil the opposite (forward) direction. Also any foreign material should have already been trapped in the filter element.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: External oil cooler [message #210954 is a reply to message #210910] |
Thu, 13 June 2013 11:04 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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| Ken Burton wrote on Thu, 13 June 2013 01:07 |
I do not understand how you could get oil from the unfiltered side of the filter all the way back to the bypass. To get there the oil would have to flow back wards through 5 or 6 feet of oil lines plus the distance through the oil cooler while the engine is trying to force the oil the opposite (forward) direction. Also any foreign material should have already been trapped in the filter element.
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Ken if the bypass valve opens the oil(unfiltered and possibly crap) on the outer shell will bypass the filter and go directly into the engine oil feed lines there is no way it will flow back toward the coolers it just bypasses the filter innards.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: External oil cooler [message #210987 is a reply to message #210954] |
Thu, 13 June 2013 15:16 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| roy1 wrote on Thu, 13 June 2013 11:04 |
| Ken Burton wrote on Thu, 13 June 2013 01:07 |
I do not understand how you could get oil from the unfiltered side of the filter all the way back to the bypass. To get there the oil would have to flow back wards through 5 or 6 feet of oil lines plus the distance through the oil cooler while the engine is trying to force the oil the opposite (forward) direction. Also any foreign material should have already been trapped in the filter element.
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Ken if the bypass valve opens the oil(unfiltered and possibly crap) on the outer shell will bypass the filter and go directly into the engine oil feed lines there is no way it will flow back toward the coolers it just bypasses the filter innards.
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I'm confused at this point. I thought the bypass stopped the oil flow through the filter, and the cooler lines, and the cooler.
I'll have to look at one some time and see how it really works because now I'm confused.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: External oil cooler [message #211026 is a reply to message #210987] |
Thu, 13 June 2013 21:12 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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| Ken Burton wrote on Thu, 13 June 2013 13:16 |
| roy1 wrote on Thu, 13 June 2013 11:04 |
| Ken Burton wrote on Thu, 13 June 2013 01:07 |
I do not understand how you could get oil from the unfiltered side of the filter all the way back to the bypass. To get there the oil would have to flow back wards through 5 or 6 feet of oil lines plus the distance through the oil cooler while the engine is trying to force the oil the opposite (forward) direction. Also any foreign material should have already been trapped in the filter element.
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Ken if the bypass valve opens the oil(unfiltered and possibly crap) on the outer shell will bypass the filter and go directly into the engine oil feed lines there is no way it will flow back toward the coolers it just bypasses the filter innards.
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I'm confused at this point. I thought the bypass stopped the oil flow through the filter, and the cooler lines, and the cooler.
I'll have to look at one some time and see how it really works because now I'm confused.
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Everything is still in the loop it just bypasses the oil that is in the in side of the filter directly into the engine bypassing the filter media. So if you had a bunch of crap in the filter from a recent engine failure coming from a contaminated oil cooler it would likely send some of it into the bearings if the bypass opened.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: External oil cooler [message #211042 is a reply to message #211026] |
Fri, 14 June 2013 00:21 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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| roy1 wrote on Thu, 13 June 2013 21:12 |
| Ken Burton wrote on Thu, 13 June 2013 13:16 |
| roy1 wrote on Thu, 13 June 2013 11:04 |
| Ken Burton wrote on Thu, 13 June 2013 01:07 |
I do not understand how you could get oil from the unfiltered side of the filter all the way back to the bypass. To get there the oil would have to flow back wards through 5 or 6 feet of oil lines plus the distance through the oil cooler while the engine is trying to force the oil the opposite (forward) direction. Also any foreign material should have already been trapped in the filter element.
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Ken if the bypass valve opens the oil(unfiltered and possibly crap) on the outer shell will bypass the filter and go directly into the engine oil feed lines there is no way it will flow back toward the coolers it just bypasses the filter innards.
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I'm confused at this point. I thought the bypass stopped the oil flow through the filter, and the cooler lines, and the cooler.
I'll have to look at one some time and see how it really works because now I'm confused.
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Everything is still in the loop it just bypasses the oil that is in the in side of the filter directly into the engine bypassing the filter media. So if you had a bunch of crap in the filter from a recent engine failure coming from a contaminated oil cooler it would likely send some of it into the bearings if the bypass opened.
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I'll take your word on that but it is my understanding that it also bypassed the cooler and lines so when the engine is cold oil can be supplied direct to the engine. This would primarily be on a cold start up and during initial warm up.
Is the engine bypass located in the engine or in the oil cooler adapter located under the oil filter?
If it is in the engine I can not see how it could bypass the filter without also bypassing the oil cooler at the same time.
Maybe I'm confusing it with how a veri-therm works on an airplane engine.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: External oil cooler [message #211044 is a reply to message #211042] |
Fri, 14 June 2013 00:49 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| Ken Burton wrote on Fri, 14 June 2013 00:21 |
| roy1 wrote on Thu, 13 June 2013 21:12 |
| Ken Burton wrote on Thu, 13 June 2013 13:16 |
| roy1 wrote on Thu, 13 June 2013 11:04 |
| Ken Burton wrote on Thu, 13 June 2013 01:07 |
I do not understand how you could get oil from the unfiltered side of the filter all the way back to the bypass. To get there the oil would have to flow back wards through 5 or 6 feet of oil lines plus the distance through the oil cooler while the engine is trying to force the oil the opposite (forward) direction. Also any foreign material should have already been trapped in the filter element.
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Ken if the bypass valve opens the oil(unfiltered and possibly crap) on the outer shell will bypass the filter and go directly into the engine oil feed lines there is no way it will flow back toward the coolers it just bypasses the filter innards.
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I'm confused at this point. I thought the bypass stopped the oil flow through the filter, and the cooler lines, and the cooler.
I'll have to look at one some time and see how it really works because now I'm confused.
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Everything is still in the loop it just bypasses the oil that is in the in side of the filter directly into the engine bypassing the filter media. So if you had a bunch of crap in the filter from a recent engine failure coming from a contaminated oil cooler it would likely send some of it into the bearings if the bypass opened.
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I'll take your word on that but it is my understanding that it also bypassed the cooler and lines so when the engine is cold oil can be supplied direct to the engine. This would primarily be on a cold start up and during initial warm up.
Is the engine bypass located in the engine or in the oil cooler adapter located under the oil filter?
If it is in the engine I can not see how it could bypass the filter without also bypassing the oil cooler at the same time.
Maybe I'm confusing it with how a veri-therm works on an airplane engine.
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I'm thinking more about this and I'm convinced that the bypass is in the oil filter mount which is bolted to the engine.
So the assembly sequence is:
engine ->
oil filter mount with by pass->
oil cooler adapter ->
and finally the oil filter.
I can not see how the bypass can turn off or bypass the oil going to the oil filter without also bypassing the oil going to the oil cooler and it's lines. The oil filter is basically plumbed in series with the filter. If you bypass one you end up bypassing both.
It looks like it is time for me to call Dick Paterson and let him tell me I'm wrong.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
[Updated on: Fri, 14 June 2013 00:50] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: External oil cooler [message #211069 is a reply to message #211042] |
Fri, 14 June 2013 14:53 |
roy1
Messages: 2126
Registered: July 2004
Location: Minden nevada
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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| Ken Burton wrote on Thu, 13 June 2013 22:21 |
| roy1 wrote on Thu, 13 June 2013 21:12 |
| Ken Burton wrote on Thu, 13 June 2013 13:16 |
| roy1 wrote on Thu, 13 June 2013 11:04 |
| Ken Burton wrote on Thu, 13 June 2013 01:07 |
I do not understand how you could get oil from the unfiltered side of the filter all the way back to the bypass. To get there the oil would have to flow back wards through 5 or 6 feet of oil lines plus the distance through the oil cooler while the engine is trying to force the oil the opposite (forward) direction. Also any foreign material should have already been trapped in the filter element.
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Ken if the bypass valve opens the oil(unfiltered and possibly crap) on the outer shell will bypass the filter and go directly into the engine oil feed lines there is no way it will flow back toward the coolers it just bypasses the filter innards.
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I'm confused at this point. I thought the bypass stopped the oil flow through the filter, and the cooler lines, and the cooler.
I'll have to look at one some time and see how it really works because now I'm confused.
|
Everything is still in the loop it just bypasses the oil that is in the in side of the filter directly into the engine bypassing the filter media. So if you had a bunch of crap in the filter from a recent engine failure coming from a contaminated oil cooler it would likely send some of it into the bearings if the bypass opened.
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I'll take your word on that but it is my understanding that it also bypassed the cooler and lines so when the engine is cold oil can be supplied direct to the engine. This would primarily be on a cold start up and during initial warm up.
Is the engine bypass located in the engine or in the oil cooler adapter located under the oil filter?
If it is in the engine I can not see how it could bypass the filter without also bypassing the oil cooler at the same time.
Maybe I'm confusing it with how a veri-therm works on an airplane engine.
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it is in the aluminum housing that bolts to the iron block. it functions similar to another engine that has a bypass in the filter rather then in the filter housing. if the oil pressure differential in the filter exceeds a certain amount from cold thick oil or a plugged filter the bypass opens and allows oil to flow around or bypass the filter media and go directly into the block. all it is is a small disc with a weak spring behind it. if the filter and external cooler assembly were removed it would be easily seen.
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
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| Re: External oil cooler [message #211120 is a reply to message #211069] |
Sat, 15 June 2013 00:52 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Agreed. But my point is the filter and cooler are in series. If it is in bypass mode BOTH the cooler and the filter are bypassed. For oil to get to the engine from the cooler it must pass through the filter. The is no path, bypass or not, to allow oil cooler oil into the engine without going through filter first.
I think we have beat this one to death.
Ken B.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] External oil cooler [message #211123 is a reply to message #211120] |
Sat, 15 June 2013 01:09 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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I for one hope you are right Ken. All this oil cooler talk has got me a little concerned as I'm about to fire the new 455 in The Pig. I had the cooler steamed at the rad shop that built my radiator as per suggestion of the engine builder but is it clean enough?? I will feel much better if the oil from the cooler has to pass through the filter on its way back into the motor.
Sully
77 royale
Seattle
On Jun 14, 2013, at 10:52 PM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> Agreed. But my point is the filter and cooler are in series. If it is in bypass mode BOTH the cooler and the filter are bypassed. For oil to get to the engine from the cooler it must pass through the filter. The is no path, bypass or not, to allow oil cooler oil into the engine without going through filter first.
>
> I think we have beat this one to death.
>
> Ken B.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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