| Vapor Lock solution?? [message #210786] |
Wed, 12 June 2013 09:25  |
gbarrow2
Messages: 765
Registered: February 2004
Location: Lake Almanor, Ca./ Red Bl...
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Vapor lock problems are a regular discussion topic here. Heat is most often listed as the cause of the problem. Emery's in tank pump seems to be the "best" solution.
Auxiliary fuel coolers inexpensive are readily available but I have not read that anyone has installed a fuel cooler and reported the results.
Would a cooler mounted in front of the radiator along with the extra engine oil and transmission coolers that many have help prevent vapor lock?
I haven't had the problem in California's hot Central Valley or in the mountains while burning California's ethanol. However, I do have an electric fuel pump that I switch on at the first sign of engine stumble/hesitation.
Why do some engines have this problem and not others in the same environment?
We netters could identify an owner with serious vapor lock and each contribute a few bucks to have a fuel cooler installed on his coach.
Comments please.
Gene Barrow
Lake Almanor, Ca.
1976 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Vapor Lock solution?? [message #210817 is a reply to message #210811] |
Wed, 12 June 2013 13:59  |
gbarrow2
Messages: 765
Registered: February 2004
Location: Lake Almanor, Ca./ Red Bl...
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Rob,
I agree that the heated fuel occurs in the tanks and lines and that the "best" solution is in tank pumps"
But isn't it possible that a cooler mounted in the front could drop the temperature enough that the fuel would re-liquefy (is that a word?) just before it gets to the carb?
I assume that fuel at 10lbs of pressure (or vacuum in the case of the mech pump) is moving through the system much more slowly (6 to 7.5 gal per hour) than the engine oil at 35 to 50psi. Engine oil coolers are very effective.
Seems that fuel cooler would be more effective since the fuel stays in the cooler longer. Unless the differential between fuel temp and OAT is not great enough.
Emery can probably answer that question.
In 10 plus years of reading about vapor lock problems on the net I don't recall that any one has stated that they installed an in line fuel cooler.
It is such a simple thing to install, easier than the electric pump that you and I have; it's curious that no one has tried and reported either success or failure.
Gene Barrow
Lake Almanor, Ca.
1976 Palm Beach
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| Re: Vapor Lock solution?? [message #210820 is a reply to message #210786] |
Wed, 12 June 2013 14:10 |
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SeanKidd
Messages: 747
Registered: June 2012
Location: Northern Neck Virginia
Karma: 4
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How about a high pressure pump with a bypass regulator just before the carb. Do the EFI guys get vaporlock?
IMO a radiator mounted cooler risks adding unwanted heat.
Perhaps a remote air cleaner with an integral one or two pass fluid cooler in the air box or air tube to carb, would move enough air be effective.
Sean and Stephanie
73 Ex-CanyonLands 26' #317 "Oliver"
Hubler 1-Ton, Quad-Bags, Rear Disc, Reaction Arms, P.Huber TBs, 3.70:1 LSD Honda 6500 inverter gen.
Colonial Travelers
[Updated on: Wed, 12 June 2013 14:41] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Vapor Lock solution?? [message #210830 is a reply to message #210820] |
Wed, 12 June 2013 15:10 |
gbarrow2
Messages: 765
Registered: February 2004
Location: Lake Almanor, Ca./ Red Bl...
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Sean,
Yes even some of the FI group have vapor lock.
I was thinking to mount the cooler in front of the radiator; so it won't pick up engine/radiator heat.
Placing it in the air stream to the carb is an idea but a more complicated install. Heat removed from the fuel now flows into the carb; not sure how that will affect it.
I see that fuel coolers are being marketed to racers. So, I assume there is some benefit.
I hope someone has tried this and will speak up.
Gene Barrow
Lake Almanor, Ca.
1976 Palm Beach
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| Re: Vapor Lock solution?? [message #210840 is a reply to message #210832] |
Wed, 12 June 2013 16:56 |
mojoe
Messages: 319
Registered: November 2012
Location: Monroe, NC
Karma: 0
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Would Insulated fuel lines from the tanks to the carb help?
Joe Kemenczky..
1975 Eleganza ll " Odie " 75,000 miles..
"When I was younger, I could remember anything, whether it had happened or not." - Mark Twain.
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| Re: Vapor Lock solution?? [message #210845 is a reply to message #210786] |
Wed, 12 June 2013 17:40 |
rcjordan
Messages: 1913
Registered: October 2012
Location: Elizabeth City, North Car...
Karma: 1
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>insulated
JimB has an insulation sleeve he puts over the fuel line in the engine compartment.
I've been thinking that some sort of shielding tube/wrap with a water dripline (maybe the AC condensate) into the sleeve might cool the line via evaporation. Some of the VW dune buggy guys talk about putting wet rags on their fuel pumps, that gave me the idea.
SOLD 77 Royale Coachmen Side Dry Bath
76 Birchaven Coachmen Side Wet Bath
76 Eleganza
Elizabeth City, NC
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| Re: [GMCnet] Vapor Lock solution?? [message #210851 is a reply to message #210817] |
Wed, 12 June 2013 18:00 |
GMC_LES
Messages: 569
Registered: October 2009
Location: Montreal
Karma: 0
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I don't feel that an air to air cooler is a good choice because on a hot day, it will warm up that nice cool fuel that you just pumped into your tank at the last gas stop.
A fuel cooler that uses the AC system is the best option because it will continually cool the fuel no matter what the OAT is vs fuel temp. The best part is that it won't cool at all when the OAT is lower because you turn off the AC.
One point that hasn't received much discussion is a pressurized tank. Todays vehicles have pressure tight fuel tanks for emissions reasons. I also believe that this helps with preventing fuel boiling. Not very practical for consideration on a GMC, but still something to think about.
Les Burt
Montreal
On 2013-06-12, at 2:59 PM, gene barrow <barrowgene@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Rob,
> I agree that the heated fuel occurs in the tanks and lines and that the "best" solution is in tank pumps"
>
> But isn't it possible that a cooler mounted in the front could drop the temperature enough that the fuel would re-liquefy (is that a word?) just before it gets to the carb?
> I assume that fuel at 10lbs of pressure (or vacuum in the case of the mech pump) is moving through the system much more slowly (6 to 7.5 gal per hour) than the engine oil at 35 to 50psi. Engine oil coolers are very effective.
> Seems that fuel cooler would be more effective since the fuel stays in the cooler longer. Unless the differential between fuel temp and OAT is not great enough.
>
> Emery can probably answer that question.
>
> In 10 plus years of reading about vapor lock problems on the net I don't recall that any one has stated that they installed an in line fuel cooler.
>
> It is such a simple thing to install, easier than the electric pump that you and I have; it's curious that no one has tried and reported either success or failure.
> --
> Gene Barrow
> Lake Almanor, Ca.
> 1976 Palm Beach
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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Les Burt
Montreal
1975 Eleganza 26ft
A work in Progress
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| Re: Vapor Lock solution?? [message #210857 is a reply to message #210786] |
Wed, 12 June 2013 18:15 |
rcjordan
Messages: 1913
Registered: October 2012
Location: Elizabeth City, North Car...
Karma: 1
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>That is a two way street.
Agreed. My general thinking is that the fuel sleeve needs to be loose enough to duct both air and water, perhaps even add a small blower. However, this is simply a blue-sky idea until I get to see how the lines are routed.
SOLD 77 Royale Coachmen Side Dry Bath
76 Birchaven Coachmen Side Wet Bath
76 Eleganza
Elizabeth City, NC
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| Re: Vapor Lock solution?? [message #210865 is a reply to message #210857] |
Wed, 12 June 2013 18:50 |
mojoe
Messages: 319
Registered: November 2012
Location: Monroe, NC
Karma: 0
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What about a insulated line large enough to push air through it , say by using the bath heat duct fan I am not using. Could pull the air from the cool cabin?
Joe Kemenczky..
1975 Eleganza ll " Odie " 75,000 miles..
"When I was younger, I could remember anything, whether it had happened or not." - Mark Twain.
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| Re: Vapor Lock solution?? [message #210869 is a reply to message #210786] |
Wed, 12 June 2013 18:55 |
rcjordan
Messages: 1913
Registered: October 2012
Location: Elizabeth City, North Car...
Karma: 1
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>large enough to push air through it
Yeah, but I'm thinking you could set up a crude ram air intake rather than fans. Then mist it.
SOLD 77 Royale Coachmen Side Dry Bath
76 Birchaven Coachmen Side Wet Bath
76 Eleganza
Elizabeth City, NC
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| Re: Vapor Lock solution?? [message #210871 is a reply to message #210869] |
Wed, 12 June 2013 18:59 |
mojoe
Messages: 319
Registered: November 2012
Location: Monroe, NC
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Over even add a small fridge and pump air out of it. it would be cool and moist
Joe Kemenczky..
1975 Eleganza ll " Odie " 75,000 miles..
"When I was younger, I could remember anything, whether it had happened or not." - Mark Twain.
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| Re: Vapor Lock solution?? [message #210877 is a reply to message #210871] |
Wed, 12 June 2013 19:42 |
mojoe
Messages: 319
Registered: November 2012
Location: Monroe, NC
Karma: 0
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If you run a mech. fuel pump and have a electric fuel pump at the tank providing pressure all the time to the mech. pump would that help reduce vapor lock?
Joe Kemenczky..
1975 Eleganza ll " Odie " 75,000 miles..
"When I was younger, I could remember anything, whether it had happened or not." - Mark Twain.
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| Re: Vapor Lock solution?? [message #210932 is a reply to message #210871] |
Thu, 13 June 2013 08:49 |
gbarrow2
Messages: 765
Registered: February 2004
Location: Lake Almanor, Ca./ Red Bl...
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Netters,
As usual, this thread has moved off into engineering fantasy land and no one has addressed the original question.
Has any one installed a readily available off the shelf in line fuel cooler? Did it solve your vapor lock problem.
No need to create a super duper blower assisted refrigerated water drip fuel cooler system if the basic off the shelf model will work. What happened to the KISS principle?
Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
Gene Barrow
Lake Almanor, Ca.
1976 Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Vapor Lock solution?? [message #210946 is a reply to message #210936] |
Thu, 13 June 2013 09:50 |
Neil
Messages: 271
Registered: July 2007
Location: Los Angeles and Magalia, ...
Karma: 1
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I had been playing with the componants for a rear mounted cooler using 2 peliter junctions and a small finned cooler.
So far I have been unimpressed with the amount of cooling from the junctions, but that may be because I don't know what I am doing.
Right now this project has become a box of stuff in the garage.
Neil
76 Eleganza now sold
Los Angeles
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