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| Re: Loose torque converter and Caddy cores [message #209301 is a reply to message #209253] |
Thu, 30 May 2013 14:35   |
Cadillackeeper
Messages: 464
Registered: October 2012
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Woosh,Yes both can be saved Easy.You do not want the "Windowed Flywheel"or the old "Windowed Nylon coated timing set either.
On my Eldo motor,We did 20 over,then 30 and finally 40.I had giant scratches and scoring from a bad piston.Actually had to sleeve that hole but no problem. The nickel block is Tough,not
like the Olds or Chevy, much Higher quality than the lower end GM stuff.
Looks like that rusty one is the one year only 1974.Kinda cool.
Cadco has the proper 10-1 pistons for those 120cc heads.MTS has
the 8-1 setups as well.That way you could still run regular and it will still KILL any 455 even a $15000 Mondello Build.
The problem is most people don't have education so they don't really know.
77 455 Elaganza II and 67 Animal, Built 500 Powered Eldo
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| Re: Loose torque converter and Caddy cores [message #209313 is a reply to message #209253] |
Thu, 30 May 2013 15:27 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
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| Kerry Pinkerton wrote on Thu, 30 May 2013 09:24 |
Started tearing down the Caddy cores I have. Decided to start with the the one out of the Eldorado because I will need the oil pan an pickup regardless.
Unfortunately, this one may be a goner. Lots of rust in the cylinders and heads. Obviously it sat outside with nothing on over the carb. ...
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Don't write it off. Soak the cylinders with 50/50 ATF and Acetone. Tomorrow, bump them pretty stoutly with the wooden handle of a hammer. Soak in ATF/acetone again. Next day, bump with wooden hammer handle, then soak with ATF/acetone. Lather, rinse, repeat. In a week or ten they will come out non-destructively. When they do, wire brush the cylinder walls to get the worst of the rust flakes and particles out, and hit it briefly with a hone. That will give you an idea of the depth of the pits and you can decide whether to abandon it, bore it, or just hone it good before freshening it up.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Loose torque converter and Caddy cores [message #209358 is a reply to message #209301] |
Thu, 30 May 2013 21:55 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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When I was working with "Mr. 500" - Jerry Potter (who has probably forgotten more about Caddy 500's than the people at MTS or The
Cad Company will ever know) he noted that with my 76cc heads I should be careful how high I run the compression ratio in a 12,000
pound motorhome. He suggested 8 - 8.5 to one. I noted that I intended set up the engine to run on AutoGas in Australia and AutoGas
was just under 100 octane. He then suggested 10 - 10.5 to 1. Since Ford Australia had built a UTE that ran on AutoGas exclusively
and it was 10.5 to 1 I decided to risk it and build the engine at 10 - 10.5 to 1. After doing a bit more study it turns out that I
will have to build it to run dual fuel - Premium Unleaded (also just under 100 octane - no ethanol) and AutoGas because there are
some point to point runs that I will not be able to carry enough AutoGas to make.
I would like to make it clear that I'm not doing this to KILL any 455's! ;-)
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: anthony ezzo
Woosh, es both can be saved Easy.You do not want the "Windowed Flywheel"or the old "Windowed Nylon coated timing set either.
On my Eldo motor,We did 20 over,then 30 and finally 40.I had giant scratches and scoring from a bad piston.Actually had to sleeve
that hole but no problem. The nickel block is Tough, not
like the Olds or Chevy, much Higher quality than the lower end GM stuff.
Looks like that rusty one is the one year only 1974.Kinda cool.
Cadco has the proper 10-1 pistons for those 120cc heads.MTS has
the 8-1 setups as well.That way you could still run regular and it will still KILL any 455 even a $15000 Mondello Build.
The problem is most people don't have education so they don't really know.
--
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: Loose torque converter and Caddy cores [message #209371 is a reply to message #209253] |
Fri, 31 May 2013 00:07 |
Cadillackeeper
Messages: 464
Registered: October 2012
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Ok sorry,I have nothing bad to say about the 455!!!!My coach will Always have a 455!
I just have had and drivin daily since 1979 a Cad,67-70 Eldo only!!!!!I just meant there is no comparison to Any Gm product. In my proven opinion. Longjevity and never
an issue with huge power is Cad. The Olds however is way more popular and easily
serviced and familiar to backwoods anybody.However if you need to climb,tow or go effortless.Nothing on this planet can beat a proper 472/500.I hope eventually to hear about a NEW land speed record real basic Cad powered GMC.I am going to try a backwards link to my car.
77 455 Elaganza II and 67 Animal, Built 500 Powered Eldo
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| Re: [GMCnet] Loose torque converter and Caddy cores [message #209428 is a reply to message #209372] |
Fri, 31 May 2013 13:29 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Kerry,
I have a Cad torque plate you can barrow.
Let me know.
-
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 10:14 PM, anthony ezzo <ezzo@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
> Sometimes... only sometimes I wish I still was fighting MS Windows.
>
> Anyway they seem to have dropped the photos that actually show their
> product, Damn Kids don't get it!
>
> http://www.duplicolor.com/success/stories/oXNgAIquof
> --
> 77 455 Elaganza II and 67 Animal, Built 500 Powered Eldo
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
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jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Loose torque converter and Caddy cores [message #209608 is a reply to message #209371] |
Sun, 02 June 2013 09:26 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Anthony,
Let's discuss this further, I have read that the nickel content of the Caddy block is the highest of any engine GM ever produced and
that it is not uncommon to find 500's without any ridge wear even after 100,000 miles. Unfortunately the one I bought off eBay had a
bad ridge and needed boring; it probably did a lot of stop and go driving.
It stands to reason that the 500 would make more power simply because the displacement is 45 cubic inches larger. The stroke in both
engines is nearly identical therefore the torque they could produce as related to stroke length is similar.
Caddy bore = 4.300
Caddy stroke = 4.304
Olds bore = 4.126 in
Olds stroke = 4.250 in
I hadn't noticed that the Caddy is a "square" engine and the Olds is an under square engine.
The head design of the Olds leaves a bit to be desired due to the "Siamesed" center exhaust port; Caddy's have individual exhaust
ports for each cylinder.
There is a "modern" engine that is quite impressive also, the Vortec 8.1. It produces some serious torque down low:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/500/2009_Kodiak_8_1.pdf
At the end of the day there's this MONSTER that Richard Potter (Jerry's son) built:
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/0609em_cadillac_performance_parts_engine/
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: anthony ezzo
Ok sorry,I have nothing bad to say about the 455!!!!My coach will Always have a 455!
I just have had and drivin daily since 1979 a Cad,67-70 Eldo only!!!!!I just meant there is no comparison to Any Gm product. In
my proven opinion. Longjevity and never
an issue with huge power is Cad. The Olds however is way more popular and easily
serviced and familiar to backwoods anybody.However if you need to climb,tow or go effortless.Nothing on this planet can beat a
proper 472/500.I hope eventually to hear about a NEW land speed record real basic Cad powered GMC.I am going to try a backwards link
to my car.
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Loose torque converter and Caddy cores [message #209636 is a reply to message #209371] |
Sun, 02 June 2013 16:16 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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and there is no real difference
except a lot of $$$ to do the conversion
*Dyno tests*
------------------------------
----------------------------
I was digging through some old GM test data and thought I would share the
following:
*Olds 455* test data with an uncertain pedigree (Toro or not? Test
conditions?) and it showed a torque at 2800 and below of about *398*. No
data below 2000, but other tests implied a peak torque at 1200 to 1600 rpm.
Peak hp was 234 at 3600.
*Cadillac 500 EFI* - peak torque *395* at 1200 and 1600 rpm. Peak hp 225
at 3600. The engine was knock limited and spark was retarded about 10
degrees from MBT at most rpms. Both of these are consistent with other big
GM engines built at the time(except for the knock-limited part). Max
torquewas always below 2000 rpm and peak hp was never above 4000.
That's not
counting performance engines like the Chevy 427 or the Chrysler Hemi, of
course.
Olds 350 EFI (Cadillac Seville) - peak torque 290 at 1200, peak power 190
at 4400 and still rising. Not knock limited.
If the Cad 500 were tested on today's fuels would it be knock-limited?
Don't know.
.
.
.
Hopefully this data will be useful to somebody. GaryC
--------------------------
>
>
> Ok sorry,I have nothing bad to say about the 455!!!!My coach will Always
> have a 455!
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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