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| [GMCnet] Best House Battery [message #207252] |
Thu, 09 May 2013 11:58  |
Peter Garry
Messages: 138
Registered: July 2011
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In that ALL the house wiring, buzz box, onan etc have been removed I'm in a position to change from the original system. Solar will replace the generator (if we are not "plugged in") so new chargers, controller etc will be needed. Shall I go the whole hog with Lithium Ion stuff or not?
If $$ are not considered would it be a better system? Thein lies the question. All the lights are LED and ready to be installed, the furnace will be a Olympian catalytic, I have a tankless water heater (but don'r know if I will install it, as I have a brand new SS engine heated/110v tank), the frig will be powered with a Danfoss compressor. What low wattage products are available for a fantastic fan and water pump?
PeterG
Calgary AB
'73 - 23' (once a painted desert)
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| Re: [GMCnet] Best House Battery [message #207254 is a reply to message #207252] |
Thu, 09 May 2013 13:32  |
Craig Lechowicz
Messages: 541
Registered: October 2006
Location: Waterford, MI
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Peter,
I'm not sure there is an easy answer to your question. The big downside to the lithium ion (or other lead acid alternatives) is cost. You can't beat golf cart batteries on storage per $.
So, the next question is how much storage do you need? That gets into how long you plan on dry camping, what types of loads you run, how much solar you plan, and how sunny it is. But, if you keep electric refrigeration, you will definitely be using quite a bit of power.
I still have the original electric norcold in my coach, and when I 1st got it, I was pretty fired up to go with 4 golf cart batteries. I still have my old Onan, although it may get swapped for a Honda EV 4010 later this year or next. Later, I bought a "suitcase" portable Yamaha generator that I mainly use, and really like, for charging batteries. I still haven't gone from 2 batteries to 4, as all it really does is increase the amount of time before you have to start the generator. If your trips are short enough, or your batteries large enough, you could run the whole trip on batteries, and only charge when you are plugged in.
My plan now is to get some solar going before adding the 2nd set of batteries. I really don't mind running the little Yamaha for a couple of hours a day, and it will make it a long 4 day weekend on not much over a gallon of gas. With enough solar, you wouldn't need to run it at all, and, unless you had a lot of during the night loads, wouldn't need a great deal of battery capacity. At that point, the other 2 batteries would mainly serve to get through long cloudy periods without generator use.
If I was Dan Gregg, I'd say get a Tri-Metric battery monitor system, and live with it a while to figure out how much your "normal" usage really is. And, as cheap as 2 golf cart batteries are compared to the alternatives, it might be worth starting with those, gaining some experience and then designing your end system.
Just for me, what I've now learned is that it's probably more important to match charging with usage, than it is to have a lot of batteries. And, the elegant way of charging for dry camping is solar. In my case, with the old electric norcold and quite a bit of other usage, probably in the 300 - 400 watt range.
Craig Lechowicz
'77 Kingsley, Waterford, MI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Best House Battery [message #207255 is a reply to message #207254] |
Thu, 09 May 2013 13:39 |
Ronald Pottol
Messages: 505
Registered: September 2012
Location: Redwood City, California
Karma: -2
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Senior Member |
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I'd love for someone to do the R&D project that non lead acid would be, but
100 amp hours at 12v sound be plenty for most people, and I don't think 200
is unreasonable. So just how weight or power obsessed are you? The other
question is how are you going to use them? Solar? What are you going to
run? Some LEDs and fans? A big screen TV for hours? A death ray?
Ruin
On May 9, 2013 11:32 AM, "Craig Lechowicz" <craig.lechowicz@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
>
>
> Peter,
> I'm not sure there is an easy answer to your question. The big downside
> to the lithium ion (or other lead acid alternatives) is cost. You can't
> beat golf cart batteries on storage per $.
>
> So, the next question is how much storage do you need? That gets into how
> long you plan on dry camping, what types of loads you run, how much solar
> you plan, and how sunny it is. But, if you keep electric refrigeration,
> you will definitely be using quite a bit of power.
>
> I still have the original electric norcold in my coach, and when I 1st got
> it, I was pretty fired up to go with 4 golf cart batteries. I still have
> my old Onan, although it may get swapped for a Honda EV 4010 later this
> year or next. Later, I bought a "suitcase" portable Yamaha generator that
> I mainly use, and really like, for charging batteries. I still haven't
> gone from 2 batteries to 4, as all it really does is increase the amount of
> time before you have to start the generator. If your trips are short
> enough, or your batteries large enough, you could run the whole trip on
> batteries, and only charge when you are plugged in.
>
> My plan now is to get some solar going before adding the 2nd set of
> batteries. I really don't mind running the little Yamaha for a couple of
> hours a day, and it will make it a long 4 day weekend on not much over a
> gallon of gas. With enough solar, you wouldn't need to run it at all, and,
> unless you had a lot of during the night loads, wouldn't need a great deal
> of battery capacity. At that point, the other 2 batteries would mainly
> serve to get through long cloudy periods without generator use.
>
> If I was Dan Gregg, I'd say get a Tri-Metric battery monitor system, and
> live with it a while to figure out how much your "normal" usage really is.
> And, as cheap as 2 golf cart batteries are compared to the alternatives,
> it might be worth starting with those, gaining some experience and then
> designing your end system.
>
> Just for me, what I've now learned is that it's probably more important to
> match charging with usage, than it is to have a lot of batteries. And, the
> elegant way of charging for dry camping is solar. In my case, with the old
> electric norcold and quite a bit of other usage, probably in the 300 - 400
> watt range.
> --
> Craig Lechowicz
> '77 Kingsley, Waterford, MI
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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1973 26' GM outfitted
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| Re: [GMCnet] Best House Battery [message #207259 is a reply to message #207252] |
Thu, 09 May 2013 14:14 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Peter,
Hands down, our best guy on solar is Gary Worobec. He's given several
seminars on the topic at GMCWS conventions and stays on top of this
stuff. Email: gtw5@earthlink.net
Steve
On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 9:58 AM, Peter Garry <petergarry@me.com> wrote:
> In that ALL the house wiring, buzz box, onan etc have been removed I'm in
> a position to change from the original system. Solar will replace the
> generator (if we are not "plugged in") so new chargers, controller etc will
> be needed. Shall I go the whole hog with Lithium Ion stuff or not?
> If $$ are not considered would it be a better system? Thein lies the
> question. All the lights are LED and ready to be installed, the furnace
> will be a Olympian catalytic, I have a tankless water heater (but don'r
> know if I will install it, as I have a brand new SS engine heated/110v
> tank), the frig will be powered with a Danfoss compressor. What low
> wattage products are available for a fantastic fan and water pump?
>
> PeterG
> Calgary AB
> '73 - 23' (once a painted desert)
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Take care,
Steve
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| Re: [GMCnet] Best House Battery [message #207260 is a reply to message #207255] |
Thu, 09 May 2013 14:28 |
mickeysss
Messages: 1476
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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my small ice chest ( chilly bin ), will take a 2 dollar bag of ice and stay ice for two days. At 60 dollars a month this could work better
thank a fridge for me. I think it could be done even longer as ice and ice cheaper, but this is from vons ice.
Lin and Larry Pardey, they get 10 or 12 day ice in the tropics up to 20 days with ice in the more temporate climes.
http://www.landlpardey.com/Tips/Tips_2002_January.html
http://www.landlpardey.com/galley-safety-rails.html
http://www.landlpardey.com/choosing-vegetables-that-will-last-when-you-go-to-sea.html
If you add ice to your fridge with iced gallons of water in the fridge that you can use as water later how long will the
fridge last useable with solar or propane added.
On May 9, 2013, at 11:39 AM, Ronald Pottol wrote:
> I'd love for someone to do the R&D project that non lead acid would be, but
> 100 amp hours at 12v sound be plenty for most people, and I don't think 200
> is unreasonable. So just how weight or power obsessed are you? The other
> question is how are you going to use them? Solar? What are you going to
> run? Some LEDs and fans? A big screen TV for hours? A death ray?
>
> Ruin
> On May 9, 2013 11:32 AM, "Craig Lechowicz" <craig.lechowicz@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Peter,
>> I'm not sure there is an easy answer to your question. The big downside
>> to the lithium ion (or other lead acid alternatives) is cost. You can't
>> beat golf cart batteries on storage per $.
>>
>> So, the next question is how much storage do you need? That gets into how
>> long you plan on dry camping, what types of loads you run, how much solar
>> you plan, and how sunny it is. But, if you keep electric refrigeration,
>> you will definitely be using quite a bit of power.
>>
>> I still have the original electric norcold in my coach, and when I 1st got
>> it, I was pretty fired up to go with 4 golf cart batteries. I still have
>> my old Onan, although it may get swapped for a Honda EV 4010 later this
>> year or next. Later, I bought a "suitcase" portable Yamaha generator that
>> I mainly use, and really like, for charging batteries. I still haven't
>> gone from 2 batteries to 4, as all it really does is increase the amount of
>> time before you have to start the generator. If your trips are short
>> enough, or your batteries large enough, you could run the whole trip on
>> batteries, and only charge when you are plugged in.
>>
>> My plan now is to get some solar going before adding the 2nd set of
>> batteries. I really don't mind running the little Yamaha for a couple of
>> hours a day, and it will make it a long 4 day weekend on not much over a
>> gallon of gas. With enough solar, you wouldn't need to run it at all, and,
>> unless you had a lot of during the night loads, wouldn't need a great deal
>> of battery capacity. At that point, the other 2 batteries would mainly
>> serve to get through long cloudy periods without generator use.
>>
>> If I was Dan Gregg, I'd say get a Tri-Metric battery monitor system, and
>> live with it a while to figure out how much your "normal" usage really is.
>> And, as cheap as 2 golf cart batteries are compared to the alternatives,
>> it might be worth starting with those, gaining some experience and then
>> designing your end system.
>>
>> Just for me, what I've now learned is that it's probably more important to
>> match charging with usage, than it is to have a lot of batteries. And, the
>> elegant way of charging for dry camping is solar. In my case, with the old
>> electric norcold and quite a bit of other usage, probably in the 300 - 400
>> watt range.
>> --
>> Craig Lechowicz
>> '77 Kingsley, Waterford, MI
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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