Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Best house battery
| [GMCnet] Best house battery [message #207212] |
Wed, 08 May 2013 22:57  |
Peter Garry
Messages: 138
Registered: July 2011
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Has anybody considered a lithium ion battery pack? Expensive but twice the capacity and a third the weight. A lot smaller too. Probably $1,000 more than lead acid but a significant advance.
Peter Garry
Calgary Alberta
'73 - 23' (once a painted desert)
Sent from my iPad
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| Re: [GMCnet] Best house battery [message #207213 is a reply to message #207212] |
Wed, 08 May 2013 23:02  |
Ronald Pottol
Messages: 505
Registered: September 2012
Location: Redwood City, California
Karma: -2
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NiZn, check it out. Not that I've done a detailed analysis, or read one.
Cheaper that lithium. They claim they can be used to replace a car battery.
Ron
On May 8, 2013 8:58 PM, "Peter Garry" <petergarry@me.com> wrote:
> Has anybody considered a lithium ion battery pack? Expensive but twice the
> capacity and a third the weight. A lot smaller too. Probably $1,000 more
> than lead acid but a significant advance.
>
> Peter Garry
> Calgary Alberta
> '73 - 23' (once a painted desert)
>
> Sent from my iPad
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Best house battery [message #207214 is a reply to message #207212] |
Wed, 08 May 2013 23:33 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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| Peter Garry wrote on Wed, 08 May 2013 20:57 |
Has anybody considered a lithium ion battery pack? Expensive but twice the capacity and a third the weight. A lot smaller too. Probably $1,000 more than lead acid but a significant advance.
Peter Garry
|
Peter,
Interesting question. I was thinking of posing the same question. I just converted our Ariens AMP electric riding lawnmower. It came with 75Ahr lead acid. I converted it to CALB 60 amp hr LiFePo4 batteries. Ruth comes in before the mower is tired after the conversion and she is on hillsides, tearing around out there like crazy.
The gain here is in Depth Of Discharge (DOD). Deep cycle lead acid don't like deep discharge. If you want lots and lots of cycles the DOD should be 20%, leaving 80% of the energy in the battery. With LiFePo4 you can do an 80% DOD and not hurt the charge cycles. 70% gives you a bit more. Still, you can extract way more power.
We also have a Solectria with 90Ahr Deka 12 Volt batteries. I have an extra that came with the car in the GMC. It looks like a car battery but when you try to lift it you think it is nailed to the ground! We dry camped for a couple of days, running the inverter quite a bit and it still was above 12.7 volts. But, guys are converting their Solectria to 60Ahr CALBs or equivalent, and going twice as far and dumping over 400 lbs.
You mentioned the downside... cost.CALB 100 Ahr cost $145 apiece plus shipping. You would need 4 to make up a for a 12 volt. It would weigh a bit over 30 lbs. (You would not want your alternator or other charging devices going over 14.6 volts... ask Boeing about he 787) You would not start damaging batteries until you got below 10 volts. Dimensions of one is H 219mm(8.62") W 142mm(5.59") T 67mm(2.64")
When you discharge a 12 volt lead acid the voltage tends to drop until it gets to nominal (12 volts) which is when you start doing damage. The LiFePo4s tend to stay at the charge level until the last bit, like our hand drills.
I was very pleased with the services provided by Manzinata Micro in Washington. Batteries came in five days well packed and as advertized.
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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| Re: [GMCnet] Best house battery [message #207243 is a reply to message #207234] |
Thu, 09 May 2013 11:09 |
Ronald Pottol
Messages: 505
Registered: September 2012
Location: Redwood City, California
Karma: -2
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Senior Member |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel%E2%80%93zinc_battery
http://www.powergenix.com/
The virtue of NiZn is *I think* a drop in replacement for lead acid. This
is because the charge voltage is only a little higher than the discharge
voltage, so your circuit can have the same range of voltages as a normal
lead acid battery circuit. This is not true for Li batteries (though
the LiFePO4
is a great choice too, but you need different chargers etc).
Ron
On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 8:04 AM, Phillip Udel <admin@salemcorp.com> wrote:
>
>
> JohnL455 wrote on Thu, 09 May 2013 08:53
> > Can we get the ones Boeing is removing from the 787 cheap and stick a
> fan on em?
>
> LOL, I have 100 old Laptop batteries and could put together :)
>
> One of the problems with lithium ion is recharge memory. You will need a
> advanced charging system, Not sure if a Inteli - Power 9200 can do that
> without overheating. the LiFePo4 sound interesting, I was checking it out
> on
> http://www.batteryspace.com/12-8v-lifepo4-battery-packs-from-19.8ah-to-200ah.aspx
>
> I stuck in two Trojan 6v 225 AH Deep Cycle Golf Cart Wet Battery T-1052 in
> for 450 A/H. Then replaced ALL my Lights with LED, and all but one Fan with
> Low Voltage Brush-less. I figure I have a total 3.4 Amp/Hour Draw with all
> the lights and Fans on. So that's 5+ days without a charge. I just need to
> find a Low Amp Water pump and Furnace Fan since they pull like 7 to 9 amps
> :)
>
> --
> Phillip Udel - www.gmcfabrication.com I Own a 1975 Avion, Still removing
> the Mothballs after sitting in storage for 10+ years
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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--
Plato seems wrong to me today.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Best house battery [message #207331 is a reply to message #207243] |
Fri, 10 May 2013 13:21 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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Did you noice on the wikipedia link that you provided it says:
"After about 30 charges, NiZn batteries tend to self-discharge more quickly. Therefore, when a high-power, high-voltage battery is needed with less concern for longevity, NiZn batteries become a good choice to use".
I would think that this might be a concern for use in a motorhome, especially with the higher cost of the battery.
Emery Stora
On May 9, 2013, at 10:09 AM, Ronald Pottol wrote:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel%E2%80%93zinc_battery
>
> http://www.powergenix.com/
>
> The virtue of NiZn is *I think* a drop in replacement for lead acid. This
> is because the charge voltage is only a little higher than the discharge
> voltage, so your circuit can have the same range of voltages as a normal
> lead acid battery circuit. This is not true for Li batteries (though
> the LiFePO4
> is a great choice too, but you need different chargers etc).
>
> Ron
>
>
> On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 8:04 AM, Phillip Udel <admin@salemcorp.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> JohnL455 wrote on Thu, 09 May 2013 08:53
>>> Can we get the ones Boeing is removing from the 787 cheap and stick a
>> fan on em?
>>
>> LOL, I have 100 old Laptop batteries and could put together :)
>>
>> One of the problems with lithium ion is recharge memory. You will need a
>> advanced charging system, Not sure if a Inteli - Power 9200 can do that
>> without overheating. the LiFePo4 sound interesting, I was checking it out
>> on
>> http://www.batteryspace.com/12-8v-lifepo4-battery-packs-from-19.8ah-to-200ah.aspx
>>
>> I stuck in two Trojan 6v 225 AH Deep Cycle Golf Cart Wet Battery T-1052 in
>> for 450 A/H. Then replaced ALL my Lights with LED, and all but one Fan with
>> Low Voltage Brush-less. I figure I have a total 3.4 Amp/Hour Draw with all
>> the lights and Fans on. So that's 5+ days without a charge. I just need to
>> find a Low Amp Water pump and Furnace Fan since they pull like 7 to 9 amps
>> :)
>>
>> --
>> Phillip Udel - www.gmcfabrication.com I Own a 1975 Avion, Still removing
>> the Mothballs after sitting in storage for 10+ years
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Plato seems wrong to me today.
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Best house battery [message #208074 is a reply to message #207331] |
Fri, 17 May 2013 14:55 |
Ronald Pottol
Messages: 505
Registered: September 2012
Location: Redwood City, California
Karma: -2
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Senior Member |
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http://www.powergenix.com/?q=node/78 claims to have good lifespans for
their cells. That link is for a variety of automotive applications, from
replacing regular starting batteries to replacing the NiMH batteries in a
Prius.
Depending on your application, self discharge may not be much of an issue,
also, if you are not fully discharging them, I bet they last much longer,
for example, you really don't want to pull your lead acid below 20% or so
routinely, and I'd only go under 50% in an emergency. But running a AA in a
camera flash, you would expect it to be run just about out between charges.
So if you wanted a better power to weight/space ratio than lead acid, I'd
say they are worth looking into.
Ron
On May 10, 2013 11:21 AM, "Emery Stora" <emerystora@mac.com> wrote:
> Did you noice on the wikipedia link that you provided it says:
> "After about 30 charges, NiZn batteries tend to self-discharge more
> quickly. Therefore, when a high-power, high-voltage battery is needed with
> less concern for longevity, NiZn batteries become a good choice to use".
>
> I would think that this might be a concern for use in a motorhome,
> especially with the higher cost of the battery.
>
> Emery Stora
>
> On May 9, 2013, at 10:09 AM, Ronald Pottol wrote:
>
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel%E2%80%93zinc_battery
> >
> > http://www.powergenix.com/
> >
> > The virtue of NiZn is *I think* a drop in replacement for lead acid. This
> > is because the charge voltage is only a little higher than the discharge
> > voltage, so your circuit can have the same range of voltages as a normal
> > lead acid battery circuit. This is not true for Li batteries (though
> > the LiFePO4
> > is a great choice too, but you need different chargers etc).
> >
> > Ron
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 8:04 AM, Phillip Udel <admin@salemcorp.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> JohnL455 wrote on Thu, 09 May 2013 08:53
> >>> Can we get the ones Boeing is removing from the 787 cheap and stick a
> >> fan on em?
> >>
> >> LOL, I have 100 old Laptop batteries and could put together :)
> >>
> >> One of the problems with lithium ion is recharge memory. You will need
> a
> >> advanced charging system, Not sure if a Inteli - Power 9200 can do that
> >> without overheating. the LiFePo4 sound interesting, I was checking it
> out
> >> on
> >>
> http://www.batteryspace.com/12-8v-lifepo4-battery-packs-from-19.8ah-to-200ah.aspx
> >>
> >> I stuck in two Trojan 6v 225 AH Deep Cycle Golf Cart Wet Battery T-1052
> in
> >> for 450 A/H. Then replaced ALL my Lights with LED, and all but one Fan
> with
> >> Low Voltage Brush-less. I figure I have a total 3.4 Amp/Hour Draw with
> all
> >> the lights and Fans on. So that's 5+ days without a charge. I just
> need to
> >> find a Low Amp Water pump and Furnace Fan since they pull like 7 to 9
> amps
> >> :)
> >>
> >> --
> >> Phillip Udel - www.gmcfabrication.com I Own a 1975 Avion, Still
> removing
> >> the Mothballs after sitting in storage for 10+ years
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> GMCnet mailing list
> >> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Plato seems wrong to me today.
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: [GMCnet] Best house battery [message #208083 is a reply to message #208074] |
Fri, 17 May 2013 15:32 |
Jp Benson
Messages: 649
Registered: October 2011
Location: Fla
Karma: 2
|
Senior Member |
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All their web pages were copyrighted 2011 but they don't appear to have any products available. They better get cracking because they have competition. One in particular is interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EEStor
They claim to have a capacitive technology with higher power density than batteries for cheaper than lead-acid. I worked for a company that invested a good bit of money in EEStor about 10 years ago when they claimed to be on the verge of success.
JP
>________________________________
> From: Ronald Pottol <ronaldpottol@gmail.com>
>To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
>Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 3:55 PM
>Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Best house battery
>
>
>http://www.powergenix.com/?q=node/78 claims to have good lifespans for
>their cells. That link is for a variety of automotive applications, from
>replacing regular starting batteries to replacing the NiMH batteries in a
>Prius.
>
>Depending on your application, self discharge may not be much of an issue,
>also, if you are not fully discharging them, I bet they last much longer,
>for example, you really don't want to pull your lead acid below 20% or so
>routinely, and I'd only go under 50% in an emergency. But running a AA in a
>camera flash, you would expect it to be run just about out between charges.
>
>So if you wanted a better power to weight/space ratio than lead acid, I'd
>say they are worth looking into.
>
>Ron
>
>
>On May 10, 2013 11:21 AM, "Emery Stora" <emerystora@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> Did you noice on the wikipedia link that you provided it says:
>> "After about 30 charges, NiZn batteries tend to self-discharge more
>> quickly. Therefore, when a high-power, high-voltage battery is needed with
>> less concern for longevity, NiZn batteries become a good choice to use".
>>
>> I would think that this might be a concern for use in a motorhome,
>> especially with the higher cost of the battery.
>>
>> Emery Stora
>>
>> On May 9, 2013, at 10:09 AM, Ronald Pottol wrote:
>>
>> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel%E2%80%93zinc_battery
>> >
>> > http://www.powergenix.com/
>> >
>> > The virtue of NiZn is *I think* a drop in replacement for lead acid. This
>> > is because the charge voltage is only a little higher than the discharge
>> > voltage, so your circuit can have the same range of voltages as a normal
>> > lead acid battery circuit. This is not true for Li batteries (though
>> > the LiFePO4
>> > is a great choice too, but you need different chargers etc).
>> >
>> > Ron
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 8:04 AM, Phillip Udel <admin@salemcorp.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> JohnL455 wrote on Thu, 09 May 2013 08:53
>> >>> Can we get the ones Boeing is removing from the 787 cheap and stick a
>> >> fan on em?
>> >>
>> >> LOL, I have 100 old Laptop batteries and could put together :)
>> >>
>> >> One of the problems with lithium ion is recharge memory. You will need
>> a
>> >> advanced charging system, Not sure if a Inteli - Power 9200 can do that
>> >> without overheating. the LiFePo4 sound interesting, I was checking it
>> out
>> >> on
>> >>
>> http://www.batteryspace.com/12-8v-lifepo4-battery-packs-from-19.8ah-to-200ah.aspx
>> >>
>> >> I stuck in two Trojan 6v 225 AH Deep Cycle Golf Cart Wet Battery T-1052
>> in
>> >> for 450 A/H. Then replaced ALL my Lights with LED, and all but one Fan
>> with
>> >> Low Voltage Brush-less. I figure I have a total 3.4 Amp/Hour Draw with
>> all
>> >> the lights and Fans on. So that's 5+ days without a charge. I just
>> need to
>> >> find a Low Amp Water pump and Furnace Fan since they pull like 7 to 9
>> amps
>> >> :)
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Phillip Udel - www.gmcfabrication.com I Own a 1975 Avion, Still
>> removing
>> >> the Mothballs after sitting in storage for 10+ years
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> GMCnet mailing list
>> >> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> >> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Plato seems wrong to me today.
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > GMCnet mailing list
>> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>>
>_______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Best house battery [message #208085 is a reply to message #208074] |
Fri, 17 May 2013 15:53 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
|
Senior Member |
|
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The best house battery is the one that you can afford! Personally using 2 6 volt golf cart batteries will give you the most bang for the buck. Another of the newer battery technology are not cost effective. Taken care of and charge correctly they will last for years. I got eight years out of the first set I bought for our first coach and the only reason that I changed them at that time was that we were going to do several dry camps in a row and I wanted fresh batteries. The real trick is getting the proper charger. I have had a true charge 40+ since 1998. That is now sold by Zantrex and is still available. It provides smart charging and will not boil the water out of your batteries like the original Buzz box will. If fact I only add water once a year and then only a few ounces to each cell. Progressive Dynamics and their charge wizard is another very good unit and is somewhat less costly that the Xantrex unit. If you are still using the original buzz box then you n
eed to be very careful to monitor you battery water level and never leave it on more than 4 hours at a time. Some people that I know that still have the BB use a timer to control on and off time.
I have rambled on here too long. The bottom line is that it is a combination of battery plus a good charger that is the best combo for your coach.
JR Wright
GMC Great Laker MHC
GMC Eastern States
GMCMHI
78 Buskirk 30' Stretch
1975 Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan
On May 17, 2013, at 3:55 PM, Ronald Pottol <ronaldpottol@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.powergenix.com/?q=node/78 claims to have good lifespans for
> their cells. That link is for a variety of automotive applications, from
> replacing regular starting batteries to replacing the NiMH batteries in a
> Prius.
>
> Depending on your application, self discharge may not be much of an issue,
> also, if you are not fully discharging them, I bet they last much longer,
> for example, you really don't want to pull your lead acid below 20% or so
> routinely, and I'd only go under 50% in an emergency. But running a AA in a
> camera flash, you would expect it to be run just about out between charges.
>
> So if you wanted a better power to weight/space ratio than lead acid, I'd
> say they are worth looking into.
>
> Ron
>
>
> On May 10, 2013 11:21 AM, "Emery Stora" <emerystora@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> Did you noice on the wikipedia link that you provided it says:
>> "After about 30 charges, NiZn batteries tend to self-discharge more
>> quickly. Therefore, when a high-power, high-voltage battery is needed with
>> less concern for longevity, NiZn batteries become a good choice to use".
>>
>> I would think that this might be a concern for use in a motorhome,
>> especially with the higher cost of the battery.
>>
>> Emery Stora
>>
>> On May 9, 2013, at 10:09 AM, Ronald Pottol wrote:
>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel%E2%80%93zinc_battery
>>>
>>> http://www.powergenix.com/
>>>
>>> The virtue of NiZn is *I think* a drop in replacement for lead acid. This
>>> is because the charge voltage is only a little higher than the discharge
>>> voltage, so your circuit can have the same range of voltages as a normal
>>> lead acid battery circuit. This is not true for Li batteries (though
>>> the LiFePO4
>>> is a great choice too, but you need different chargers etc).
>>>
>>> Ron
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 8:04 AM, Phillip Udel <admin@salemcorp.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> JohnL455 wrote on Thu, 09 May 2013 08:53
>>>>> Can we get the ones Boeing is removing from the 787 cheap and stick a
>>>> fan on em?
>>>>
>>>> LOL, I have 100 old Laptop batteries and could put together :)
>>>>
>>>> One of the problems with lithium ion is recharge memory. You will need
>> a
>>>> advanced charging system, Not sure if a Inteli - Power 9200 can do that
>>>> without overheating. the LiFePo4 sound interesting, I was checking it
>> out
>>>> on
>>>>
>> http://www.batteryspace.com/12-8v-lifepo4-battery-packs-from-19.8ah-to-200ah.aspx
>>>>
>>>> I stuck in two Trojan 6v 225 AH Deep Cycle Golf Cart Wet Battery T-1052
>> in
>>>> for 450 A/H. Then replaced ALL my Lights with LED, and all but one Fan
>> with
>>>> Low Voltage Brush-less. I figure I have a total 3.4 Amp/Hour Draw with
>> all
>>>> the lights and Fans on. So that's 5+ days without a charge. I just
>> need to
>>>> find a Low Amp Water pump and Furnace Fan since they pull like 7 to 9
>> amps
>>>> :)
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Phillip Udel - www.gmcfabrication.com I Own a 1975 Avion, Still
>> removing
>>>> the Mothballs after sitting in storage for 10+ years
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Plato seems wrong to me today.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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_______________________________________________
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Best house battery [message #208092 is a reply to message #208085] |
Fri, 17 May 2013 16:47 |
Ronald Pottol
Messages: 505
Registered: September 2012
Location: Redwood City, California
Karma: -2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
No argument. The only reason to look beyond lead acid today is because you
want more power than your weight budget allows. My death ray is hungry. I
mean, 200ah is doable, that's 600 wh between recharges, turn off some of
your TVs!
Ron
Who dreams of solar powered AC (600 watts gets you 9000 btu, that is not a
crazy amount of solar panels)
On May 17, 2013 1:53 PM, "John Wright" <powerjon@chartermi.net> wrote:
> The best house battery is the one that you can afford! Personally using 2
> 6 volt golf cart batteries will give you the most bang for the buck.
> Another of the newer battery technology are not cost effective. Taken
> care of and charge correctly they will last for years. I got eight years
> out of the first set I bought for our first coach and the only reason that
> I changed them at that time was that we were going to do several dry camps
> in a row and I wanted fresh batteries. The real trick is getting the
> proper charger. I have had a true charge 40+ since 1998. That is now sold
> by Zantrex and is still available. It provides smart charging and will not
> boil the water out of your batteries like the original Buzz box will. If
> fact I only add water once a year and then only a few ounces to each cell.
> Progressive Dynamics and their charge wizard is another very good unit and
> is somewhat less costly that the Xantrex unit. If you are still using the
> original buzz box then you n
> eed to be very careful to monitor you battery water level and never leave
> it on more than 4 hours at a time. Some people that I know that still have
> the BB use a timer to control on and off time.
> I have rambled on here too long. The bottom line is that it is a
> combination of battery plus a good charger that is the best combo for your
> coach.
>
> JR Wright
> GMC Great Laker MHC
> GMC Eastern States
> GMCMHI
> 78 Buskirk 30' Stretch
> 1975 Avion (Under Reconstruction)
> Michigan
>
> On May 17, 2013, at 3:55 PM, Ronald Pottol <ronaldpottol@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > http://www.powergenix.com/?q=node/78 claims to have good lifespans for
> > their cells. That link is for a variety of automotive applications, from
> > replacing regular starting batteries to replacing the NiMH batteries in a
> > Prius.
> >
> > Depending on your application, self discharge may not be much of an
> issue,
> > also, if you are not fully discharging them, I bet they last much longer,
> > for example, you really don't want to pull your lead acid below 20% or so
> > routinely, and I'd only go under 50% in an emergency. But running a AA
> in a
> > camera flash, you would expect it to be run just about out between
> charges.
> >
> > So if you wanted a better power to weight/space ratio than lead acid, I'd
> > say they are worth looking into.
> >
> > Ron
> >
> >
> > On May 10, 2013 11:21 AM, "Emery Stora" <emerystora@mac.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Did you noice on the wikipedia link that you provided it says:
> >> "After about 30 charges, NiZn batteries tend to self-discharge more
> >> quickly. Therefore, when a high-power, high-voltage battery is needed
> with
> >> less concern for longevity, NiZn batteries become a good choice to use".
> >>
> >> I would think that this might be a concern for use in a motorhome,
> >> especially with the higher cost of the battery.
> >>
> >> Emery Stora
> >>
> >> On May 9, 2013, at 10:09 AM, Ronald Pottol wrote:
> >>
> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel%E2%80%93zinc_battery
> >>>
> >>> http://www.powergenix.com/
> >>>
> >>> The virtue of NiZn is *I think* a drop in replacement for lead acid.
> This
> >>> is because the charge voltage is only a little higher than the
> discharge
> >>> voltage, so your circuit can have the same range of voltages as a
> normal
> >>> lead acid battery circuit. This is not true for Li batteries (though
> >>> the LiFePO4
> >>> is a great choice too, but you need different chargers etc).
> >>>
> >>> Ron
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 8:04 AM, Phillip Udel <admin@salemcorp.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> JohnL455 wrote on Thu, 09 May 2013 08:53
> >>>>> Can we get the ones Boeing is removing from the 787 cheap and stick a
> >>>> fan on em?
> >>>>
> >>>> LOL, I have 100 old Laptop batteries and could put together :)
> >>>>
> >>>> One of the problems with lithium ion is recharge memory. You will
> need
> >> a
> >>>> advanced charging system, Not sure if a Inteli - Power 9200 can do
> that
> >>>> without overheating. the LiFePo4 sound interesting, I was checking it
> >> out
> >>>> on
> >>>>
> >>
> http://www.batteryspace.com/12-8v-lifepo4-battery-packs-from-19.8ah-to-200ah.aspx
> >>>>
> >>>> I stuck in two Trojan 6v 225 AH Deep Cycle Golf Cart Wet Battery
> T-1052
> >> in
> >>>> for 450 A/H. Then replaced ALL my Lights with LED, and all but one Fan
> >> with
> >>>> Low Voltage Brush-less. I figure I have a total 3.4 Amp/Hour Draw with
> >> all
> >>>> the lights and Fans on. So that's 5+ days without a charge. I just
> >> need to
> >>>> find a Low Amp Water pump and Furnace Fan since they pull like 7 to 9
> >> amps
> >>>> :)
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Phillip Udel - www.gmcfabrication.com I Own a 1975 Avion, Still
> >> removing
> >>>> the Mothballs after sitting in storage for 10+ years
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> GMCnet mailing list
> >>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Plato seems wrong to me today.
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> GMCnet mailing list
> >>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> GMCnet mailing list
> >> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
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1973 26' GM outfitted
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| Re: [GMCnet] Best house battery [message #208093 is a reply to message #208083] |
Fri, 17 May 2013 16:52 |
Ronald Pottol
Messages: 505
Registered: September 2012
Location: Redwood City, California
Karma: -2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I used their AA batteries in my daughters camera which only worked with
lithium 1.5v disposables, not regular alkaline or NiMH.
The capacitor will be amazing, if it ships, and is not a bomb.
On May 17, 2013 1:33 PM, "Jp Benson" <chocomo99@yahoo.com> wrote:
> All their web pages were copyrighted 2011 but they don't appear to have
> any products available. They better get cracking because they have
> competition. One in particular is interesting:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EEStor
>
> They claim to have a capacitive technology with higher power density than
> batteries for cheaper than lead-acid. I worked for a company that invested
> a good bit of money in EEStor about 10 years ago when they claimed to be on
> the verge of success.
>
> JP
>
>
>
>
>
> >________________________________
> > From: Ronald Pottol <ronaldpottol@gmail.com>
> >To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> >Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 3:55 PM
> >Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Best house battery
> >
> >
> >http://www.powergenix.com/?q=node/78 claims to have good lifespans for
> >their cells. That link is for a variety of automotive applications, from
> >replacing regular starting batteries to replacing the NiMH batteries in a
> >Prius.
> >
> >Depending on your application, self discharge may not be much of an issue,
> >also, if you are not fully discharging them, I bet they last much longer,
> >for example, you really don't want to pull your lead acid below 20% or so
> >routinely, and I'd only go under 50% in an emergency. But running a AA in
> a
> >camera flash, you would expect it to be run just about out between
> charges.
> >
> >So if you wanted a better power to weight/space ratio than lead acid, I'd
> >say they are worth looking into.
> >
> >Ron
> >
> >
> >On May 10, 2013 11:21 AM, "Emery Stora" <emerystora@mac.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Did you noice on the wikipedia link that you provided it says:
> >> "After about 30 charges, NiZn batteries tend to self-discharge more
> >> quickly. Therefore, when a high-power, high-voltage battery is needed
> with
> >> less concern for longevity, NiZn batteries become a good choice to use".
> >>
> >> I would think that this might be a concern for use in a motorhome,
> >> especially with the higher cost of the battery.
> >>
> >> Emery Stora
> >>
> >> On May 9, 2013, at 10:09 AM, Ronald Pottol wrote:
> >>
> >> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel%E2%80%93zinc_battery
> >> >
> >> > http://www.powergenix.com/
> >> >
> >> > The virtue of NiZn is *I think* a drop in replacement for lead acid.
> This
> >> > is because the charge voltage is only a little higher than the
> discharge
> >> > voltage, so your circuit can have the same range of voltages as a
> normal
> >> > lead acid battery circuit. This is not true for Li batteries (though
> >> > the LiFePO4
> >> > is a great choice too, but you need different chargers etc).
> >> >
> >> > Ron
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 8:04 AM, Phillip Udel <admin@salemcorp.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> JohnL455 wrote on Thu, 09 May 2013 08:53
> >> >>> Can we get the ones Boeing is removing from the 787 cheap and stick
> a
> >> >> fan on em?
> >> >>
> >> >> LOL, I have 100 old Laptop batteries and could put together :)
> >> >>
> >> >> One of the problems with lithium ion is recharge memory. You will
> need
> >> a
> >> >> advanced charging system, Not sure if a Inteli - Power 9200 can do
> that
> >> >> without overheating. the LiFePo4 sound interesting, I was checking it
> >> out
> >> >> on
> >> >>
> >>
> http://www.batteryspace.com/12-8v-lifepo4-battery-packs-from-19.8ah-to-200ah.aspx
> >> >>
> >> >> I stuck in two Trojan 6v 225 AH Deep Cycle Golf Cart Wet Battery
> T-1052
> >> in
> >> >> for 450 A/H. Then replaced ALL my Lights with LED, and all but one
> Fan
> >> with
> >> >> Low Voltage Brush-less. I figure I have a total 3.4 Amp/Hour Draw
> with
> >> all
> >> >> the lights and Fans on. So that's 5+ days without a charge. I just
> >> need to
> >> >> find a Low Amp Water pump and Furnace Fan since they pull like 7 to 9
> >> amps
> >> >> :)
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Phillip Udel - www.gmcfabrication.com I Own a 1975 Avion, Still
> >> removing
> >> >> the Mothballs after sitting in storage for 10+ years
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> GMCnet mailing list
> >> >> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >> >> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Plato seems wrong to me today.
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > GMCnet mailing list
> >> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> GMCnet mailing list
> >> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >>
> >_______________________________________________
> >GMCnet mailing list
> >Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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1973 26' GM outfitted
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| Re: [GMCnet] Best house battery [message #208101 is a reply to message #208085] |
Fri, 17 May 2013 17:33 |
mickeysss
Messages: 1476
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I still have not changed my buzz box. What is the best one to change it with?
How do you wire it when you do and how do you charge all batteries at once from it etc. ?
mickey :-)
anaheim ca. 77 palm beach,.
On May 17, 2013, at 1:53 PM, John Wright wrote:
> The best house battery is the one that you can afford! Personally using 2 6 volt golf cart batteries will give you the most bang for the buck. Another of the newer battery technology are not cost effective. Taken care of and charge correctly they will last for years. I got eight years out of the first set I bought for our first coach and the only reason that I changed them at that time was that we were going to do several dry camps in a row and I wanted fresh batteries. The real trick is getting the proper charger. I have had a true charge 40+ since 1998. That is now sold by Zantrex and is still available. It provides smart charging and will not boil the water out of your batteries like the original Buzz box will. If fact I only add water once a year and then only a few ounces to each cell. Progressive Dynamics and their charge wizard is another very good unit and is somewhat less costly that the Xantrex unit. If you are still using the original buzz box then you
n
> eed to be very careful to monitor you battery water level and never leave it on more than 4 hours at a time. Some people that I know that still have the BB use a timer to control on and off time.
> I have rambled on here too long. The bottom line is that it is a combination of battery plus a good charger that is the best combo for your coach.
>
> JR Wright
> GMC Great Laker MHC
> GMC Eastern States
> GMCMHI
> 78 Buskirk 30' Stretch
> 1975 Avion (Under Reconstruction)
> Michigan
>
> On May 17, 2013, at 3:55 PM, Ronald Pottol <ronaldpottol@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> http://www.powergenix.com/?q=node/78 claims to have good lifespans for
>> their cells. That link is for a variety of automotive applications, from
>> replacing regular starting batteries to replacing the NiMH batteries in a
>> Prius.
>>
>> Depending on your application, self discharge may not be much of an issue,
>> also, if you are not fully discharging them, I bet they last much longer,
>> for example, you really don't want to pull your lead acid below 20% or so
>> routinely, and I'd only go under 50% in an emergency. But running a AA in a
>> camera flash, you would expect it to be run just about out between charges.
>>
>> So if you wanted a better power to weight/space ratio than lead acid, I'd
>> say they are worth looking into.
>>
>> Ron
>>
>>
>> On May 10, 2013 11:21 AM, "Emery Stora" <emerystora@mac.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Did you noice on the wikipedia link that you provided it says:
>>> "After about 30 charges, NiZn batteries tend to self-discharge more
>>> quickly. Therefore, when a high-power, high-voltage battery is needed with
>>> less concern for longevity, NiZn batteries become a good choice to use".
>>>
>>> I would think that this might be a concern for use in a motorhome,
>>> especially with the higher cost of the battery.
>>>
>>> Emery Stora
>>>
>>> On May 9, 2013, at 10:09 AM, Ronald Pottol wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel%E2%80%93zinc_battery
>>>>
>>>> http://www.powergenix.com/
>>>>
>>>> The virtue of NiZn is *I think* a drop in replacement for lead acid. This
>>>> is because the charge voltage is only a little higher than the discharge
>>>> voltage, so your circuit can have the same range of voltages as a normal
>>>> lead acid battery circuit. This is not true for Li batteries (though
>>>> the LiFePO4
>>>> is a great choice too, but you need different chargers etc).
>>>>
>>>> Ron
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 8:04 AM, Phillip Udel <admin@salemcorp.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> JohnL455 wrote on Thu, 09 May 2013 08:53
>>>>>> Can we get the ones Boeing is removing from the 787 cheap and stick a
>>>>> fan on em?
>>>>>
>>>>> LOL, I have 100 old Laptop batteries and could put together :)
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the problems with lithium ion is recharge memory. You will need
>>> a
>>>>> advanced charging system, Not sure if a Inteli - Power 9200 can do that
>>>>> without overheating. the LiFePo4 sound interesting, I was checking it
>>> out
>>>>> on
>>>>>
>>> http://www.batteryspace.com/12-8v-lifepo4-battery-packs-from-19.8ah-to-200ah.aspx
>>>>>
>>>>> I stuck in two Trojan 6v 225 AH Deep Cycle Golf Cart Wet Battery T-1052
>>> in
>>>>> for 450 A/H. Then replaced ALL my Lights with LED, and all but one Fan
>>> with
>>>>> Low Voltage Brush-less. I figure I have a total 3.4 Amp/Hour Draw with
>>> all
>>>>> the lights and Fans on. So that's 5+ days without a charge. I just
>>> need to
>>>>> find a Low Amp Water pump and Furnace Fan since they pull like 7 to 9
>>> amps
>>>>> :)
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Phillip Udel - www.gmcfabrication.com I Own a 1975 Avion, Still
>>> removing
>>>>> the Mothballs after sitting in storage for 10+ years
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Plato seems wrong to me today.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Best house battery [message #208106 is a reply to message #208101] |
Fri, 17 May 2013 17:59 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Mickey, Just remove and replace the original buzz box with your charger of choice. Progressive Dynamics, Iota, Xantex and others will just be a direct replacement. Just watch the polarity on the D.C. Leads. Not rocket science, just easy replacement.
Tom
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Best house battery [message #208107 is a reply to message #208106] |
Fri, 17 May 2013 18:03 |
mickeysss
Messages: 1476
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
thank you best regards
mickey :-)
anaheim ca. 77 palm beach
On May 17, 2013, at 3:59 PM, Thomas Phipps wrote:
>
>
> Mickey, Just remove and replace the original buzz box with your charger of choice. Progressive Dynamics, Iota, Xantex and others will just be a direct replacement. Just watch the polarity on the D.C. Leads. Not rocket science, just easy replacement.
> Tom
> --
> 1975 GMC Avion, under forever re-construction
> Vicksburg, MS. 3.7 miles from I-20
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Best house battery [message #208220 is a reply to message #208107] |
Sun, 19 May 2013 00:46 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
| mickeysss wrote on Fri, 17 May 2013 17:03 |
thank you best regards
mickey 
anaheim ca. 77 palm beach
On May 17, 2013, at 3:59 PM, Thomas Phipps wrote:
>
>
> Mickey, Just remove and replace the original buzz box with your charger of choice. Progressive Dynamics, Iota, Xantex and others will just be a direct replacement. Just watch the polarity on the D.C. Leads. Not rocket science, just easy replacement.
> Tom
> --
> 1975 GMC Avion, under forever re-construction
> Vicksburg, MS. 3.7 miles from I-20
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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|
I recommend the IOTA since it is a lot more reliable and also has a totally variable fan speed. It is much more quiet than the PD which frankly is trouble prone. Given all that I am starting to change my mind about 2 or 4 6V golf cart batteries as a source of house power. I'm not alone in realizing that these units will not retain a charge over time even if totally disconected. Good cranking batteries in parallel seem to retain a charge for several months and have a reasonable warranty compared to the 6 V units from Costco or Sam's. I started with 12V units when I first bought my coach and based on numerous recomendations, switched to 6V units. In retrospect, I think that is a big mistake.
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Best house battery [message #208237 is a reply to message #208220] |
Sun, 19 May 2013 04:23 |
mickeysss
Messages: 1476
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
IN teresting i have seen a real pro stated going with the 12 volt is a good thing as well, he has 4 12 volts and that seems strange
but at costco you can just change them free any time with in a year. So this may not be so crazy. Anyone know the best place to and amount of solar cells to put on the gmc with the pod off or on the top of our buggies. I am trying to think of the best design for
the most and best for the money solar and whether to leave the pod on or off and not get them stollen from the top as well.
mickey :-) anaheim ca. 77 palm beach
On May 18, 2013, at 10:46 PM, Bob de Kruyff wrote:
>
>
> mickeysss wrote on Fri, 17 May 2013 17:03
>> thank you best regards
>>
>> mickey :)
>>
>> anaheim ca. 77 palm beach
>>
>>
>> On May 17, 2013, at 3:59 PM, Thomas Phipps wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mickey, Just remove and replace the original buzz box with your charger of choice. Progressive Dynamics, Iota, Xantex and others will just be a direct replacement. Just watch the polarity on the D.C. Leads. Not rocket science, just easy replacement.
>>> Tom
>>> --
>>> 1975 GMC Avion, under forever re-construction
>>> Vicksburg, MS. 3.7 miles from I-20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
> I recommend the IOTA since it is a lot more reliable and also has a totally variable fan speed. It is much more quiet than the PD which frankly is trouble prone. Given all that I am starting to change my mind about 2 or 4 6V golf cart batteries as a source of house power. I'm not alone in realizing that these units will not retain a charge over time even if totally disconected. Good cranking batteries in parallel seem to retain a charge for several months and have a reasonable warranty compared to the 6 V units from Costco or Sam's. I started with 12V units when I first bought my coach and based on numerous recomendations, switched to 6V units. In retrospect, I think that is a big mistake.
> --
> Bob de Kruyff
> 78 Eleganza
> Chandler, AZ
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Best house battery [message #208314 is a reply to message #208220] |
Sun, 19 May 2013 16:07 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Bob,
If I read the email below correctly you've lobbed TWO grenades into the "popular" way of thinking:
1) "PD which frankly is trouble prone"
2) Paraphrased; 'two 12v starting batteries in parallel are better than two 6v deep cycle batteries in series are better for house
power'
No 1) is too late for me I've already got the PD but it's installed where I can't hear it, hopefully it won't die.
No 2) is of interest. I installed a 2000 Watt (3000 watt surge) Xantrex inverter:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5270-xantrex-inverter-install.html
As you can see it's wired into two 6v golf cart batteries in series. Subsequent to these photos the batteries were replaced with two
Trojan top of the line 245AH batteries. The Xantrex is setup to power the microwave oven and one power point through a 30 amp auto
transfer switch so we can make coffee / toast / run the microwave without starting the Onan.
One input leg to the 30 amp Auto Transfer Switch (ATS) comes from normal 120vdc house power, the second leg comes from the inverter.
Normally house power (from shore power or the Onan) feeds the microwave and the power point through the ATS. However, when it senses
no power on the normal house power circuit and power on the inverter circuit it feeds power from the inverter.
Unfortunately it seems that the two 245 AH 6V batteries are not up to the task and their voltage drops below the Xantrex's minimum
(can't remember what it is at the moment). I need more AH and to get it I need to install two more 6V batteries. As you can see from
the photo that's going to be tough considering the amount of real estate I have back there. It would be much easier to install three
12V batteries in parallel than two banks of two 6V batteries in series then paralleled.
As you can see from the photos the leads from the batteries to the Xantrex are monsters, two sizes bigger than necessary for the
length according to the guy that sold me the cables. However, from the Xantrex to the auto transfer switch to the power point I used
no. 14 solid cable (what is used for lights in a home) could that account for the voltage drop? Would increasing to 12 or 10 help?
Regards,
Rob "electrically challenged" M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob de Kruyff
I recommend the IOTA since it is a lot more reliable and also has a totally variable fan speed. It is much more quiet than the PD
which frankly is trouble prone. Given all that I am starting to change my mind about 2 or 4 6V golf cart batteries as a source of
house power. I'm not alone in realizing that these units will not retain a charge over time even if totally disconected. Good
cranking batteries in parallel seem to retain a charge for several months and have a reasonable warranty compared to the 6 V units
from Costco or Sam's. I started with 12V units when I first bought my coach and based on numerous recomendations, switched to 6V
units. In retrospect, I think that is a big mistake.
--
Bob
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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