Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Water Heater Repair - UGH!
| Water Heater Repair - UGH! [message #206661] |
Thu, 02 May 2013 19:04  |
SThornbg
Messages: 127
Registered: September 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Confirmed the heater element is toast (switch on, no water in tank)
This is the original Type 2 unit in a '77 PB.
I'm trying to replace the element with the unit still installed. So, bolt removal - twisted off the top two, rounded off the bottom two. Cut off the rounded bolt heads with the Dremel and 4 or 5 cutoff discs. Then put a 1-inch hole in the side of the shroud so I could get a chisel between the element flange and the tank flange. Old element out.
Cut off the remainder of the bolts and started drilling. First hole defined the drill depth limit as I penetrated the tank.
I now have one slightly elongated hole and three fairly clean holes. Trying to tap with a 5/16 spiral tap but it seams the tap bottoms out against the tank before it cuts much thread.
So,any suggestions on how to proceed would be very much appreciated. Is JBWeld a good fix for the hole I put into the tank?
Thanks for any suggestions.
Steve Thornburg
South Bend, IN
'77 exPB "Tinker Toy"
Steve Thornburg
South Bend, IN
77 exPB 455 "Tinker Toy"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water Heater Repair - UGH! [message #206671 is a reply to message #206663] |
Thu, 02 May 2013 20:51  |
SThornbg
Messages: 127
Registered: September 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Thanks, Mike, but no. The clearance between the back of the flange and the tank is no more than 1/8-inch, if that. No way to wiggle a bolt in there.
Steve Thornburg
South Bend, IN
Steve Thornburg
South Bend, IN
77 exPB 455 "Tinker Toy"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water Heater Repair - UGH! [message #206673 is a reply to message #206671] |
Thu, 02 May 2013 21:08 |
Kosier
Messages: 834
Registered: February 2008
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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The very best way to make that repair would be to call JimK and order a new
stainless tank complete.
Actually, IMHO, that's the only way!
Gary Kosier
77 PB & 77EL2
Newark, Oh
-----Original Message-----
From: SThornbg
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 9:51 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Water Heater Repair - UGH!
Thanks, Mike, but no. The clearance between the back of the flange and the
tank is no more than 1/8-inch, if that. No way to wiggle a bolt in there.
Steve Thornburg
South Bend, IN
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water Heater Repair - UGH! [message #206677 is a reply to message #206663] |
Thu, 02 May 2013 21:29 |
Emery Stora
Messages: 959
Registered: January 2011
Karma: 4
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Steve - Sorry to hear that you drilled into the tank.
Get a "bottoming" tap. This is one that doesn't have the long point and the thread cutter is close to the end with not much taper. This will allow you to threads the holes without hitting the tank.
Insteadoif using a heating element with a square flange buy an adapter so that you can use a screw in heating element. That way you can bolt the adapter flange to the heater and leave it there. Then it is easy to replace the screw in element. Just use a socket wrench to take it out or to put another one in. You can find the adapters at Home Depot or Lowes.
I broke a bolt once and drilled it out and also elongated the hole so I drilled and tapped it for a 3/8 in bolt.
Where you drilled into the tank, if it is in line with the flange hole you might want to tap the hole and use a longer bolt (use stainless steel) through the flange. Put good sealant on the end where you thread it into the tank and it will likely seal just fine. I don't know if you can reach in to put Teflon tape on the end but if you have room that should make a good seal and hold up to the heat. If not you might to use Teflon plumbers
sealant. If you use the adapter you should never have to remove that bolt.
Emery
On May 2, 2013, at 6:11 PM, Kingsley Coach <kingsleygmc@gmail.com> wrote:
> It has been a Very long time since I had mine apart.
> Is it possible to hook the head of the bolt under a notched out area
> of the elongated spot. Like having 3 going in one direction and the
> 4th facing you and waiting for a nut?
> Like I said, I don't remember what it looks like in there anymore. <g>
>
> Mike in NS
>
> On 5/2/13, SThornbg <SThornbg@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Confirmed the heater element is toast (switch on, no water in tank)
>>
>> This is the original Type 2 unit in a '77 PB.
>>
>> I'm trying to replace the element with the unit still installed. So, bolt
>> removal - twisted off the top two, rounded off the bottom two. Cut off the
>> rounded bolt heads with the Dremel and 4 or 5 cutoff discs. Then put a
>> 1-inch hole in the side of the shroud so I could get a chisel between the
>> element flange and the tank flange. Old element out.
>>
>> Cut off the remainder of the bolts and started drilling. First hole defined
>> the drill depth limit as I penetrated the tank.
>>
>> I now have one slightly elongated hole and three fairly clean holes. Trying
>> to tap with a 5/16 spiral tap but it seams the tap bottoms out against the
>> tank before it cuts much thread.
>>
>> So,any suggestions on how to proceed would be very much appreciated. Is
>> JBWeld a good fix for the hole I put into the tank?
>>
>> Thanks for any suggestions.
>>
>> Steve Thornburg
>> South Bend, IN
>> '77 exPB "Tinker Toy"
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
> --
> Michael Beaton
> 1977 Kingsley 26-11
> 1977 Eleganza II 26-3
> Antigonish, NS
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water Heater Repair - UGH! [message #206679 is a reply to message #206677] |
Thu, 02 May 2013 22:30 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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Senior Member |
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Steve
another thought - if you are puttng on the adapter flange you might want to put some epoxy such as JB Weld on the end of the bolt that will screw into the tank. That should seal it.
Emery Stora
On May 2, 2013, at 8:29 PM, Emery Stora wrote:
> Steve - Sorry to hear that you drilled into the tank.
>
> Get a "bottoming" tap. This is one that doesn't have the long point and the thread cutter is close to the end with not much taper. This will allow you to threads the holes without hitting the tank.
>
> Insteadoif using a heating element with a square flange buy an adapter so that you can use a screw in heating element. That way you can bolt the adapter flange to the heater and leave it there. Then it is easy to replace the screw in element. Just use a socket wrench to take it out or to put another one in. You can find the adapters at Home Depot or Lowes.
>
> I broke a bolt once and drilled it out and also elongated the hole so I drilled and tapped it for a 3/8 in bolt.
>
> Where you drilled into the tank, if it is in line with the flange hole you might want to tap the hole and use a longer bolt (use stainless steel) through the flange. Put good sealant on the end where you thread it into the tank and it will likely seal just fine. I don't know if you can reach in to put Teflon tape on the end but if you have room that should make a good seal and hold up to the heat. If not you might to use Teflon plumbers
> sealant. If you use the adapter you should never have to remove that bolt.
>
> Emery
>
> On May 2, 2013, at 6:11 PM, Kingsley Coach <kingsleygmc@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It has been a Very long time since I had mine apart.
>> Is it possible to hook the head of the bolt under a notched out area
>> of the elongated spot. Like having 3 going in one direction and the
>> 4th facing you and waiting for a nut?
>> Like I said, I don't remember what it looks like in there anymore. <g>
>>
>> Mike in NS
>>
>> On 5/2/13, SThornbg <SThornbg@aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Confirmed the heater element is toast (switch on, no water in tank)
>>>
>>> This is the original Type 2 unit in a '77 PB.
>>>
>>> I'm trying to replace the element with the unit still installed. So, bolt
>>> removal - twisted off the top two, rounded off the bottom two. Cut off the
>>> rounded bolt heads with the Dremel and 4 or 5 cutoff discs. Then put a
>>> 1-inch hole in the side of the shroud so I could get a chisel between the
>>> element flange and the tank flange. Old element out.
>>>
>>> Cut off the remainder of the bolts and started drilling. First hole defined
>>> the drill depth limit as I penetrated the tank.
>>>
>>> I now have one slightly elongated hole and three fairly clean holes. Trying
>>> to tap with a 5/16 spiral tap but it seams the tap bottoms out against the
>>> tank before it cuts much thread.
>>>
>>> So,any suggestions on how to proceed would be very much appreciated. Is
>>> JBWeld a good fix for the hole I put into the tank?
>>>
>>> Thanks for any suggestions.
>>>
>>> Steve Thornburg
>>> South Bend, IN
>>> '77 exPB "Tinker Toy"
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Michael Beaton
>> 1977 Kingsley 26-11
>> 1977 Eleganza II 26-3
>> Antigonish, NS
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: Water Heater Repair - UGH! [message #206680 is a reply to message #206661] |
Thu, 02 May 2013 22:41 |
captjack
Messages: 271
Registered: February 2010
Location: Sebastopol, California
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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I tried to replace my heater coil with limited success. After a lot of work the tank rusted through shortly after. Have you considered replacing it with an on-demand heater? That's what I did. It works off propane, so it's great for dry camping where you don't want to run the generator. For more information go to Gene's site:
http://gmcmotorhome.info/living#DEMAND
Jack Christensen - K6ROW,
'76 Glenbrook/Clasco - "The Silver Bullet",
Sebastopol, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water Heater Repair - UGH! [message #206706 is a reply to message #206661] |
Fri, 03 May 2013 10:32 |
Ray Erspamer
Messages: 1707
Registered: May 2007
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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Convert to a TANKLESS system, only way to go!
Ray
Ray & Lisa
78 Royale "Great Lakes Eagle"
Center Kitchen TZE368V101144
Wauwatosa, Wisconsin 53226
Email: 78GMC-Royale@att.net
414-745-3188
Web Site: http://ray-lisa.page.tl/
________________________________
From: SThornbg <SThornbg@aol.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thu, May 2, 2013 7:04:52 PM
Subject: [GMCnet] Water Heater Repair - UGH!
Confirmed the heater element is toast (switch on, no water in tank)
This is the original Type 2 unit in a '77 PB.
I'm trying to replace the element with the unit still installed. So, bolt
removal - twisted off the top two, rounded off the bottom two. Cut off the
rounded bolt heads with the Dremel and 4 or 5 cutoff discs. Then put a 1-inch
hole in the side of the shroud so I could get a chisel between the element
flange and the tank flange. Old element out.
Cut off the remainder of the bolts and started drilling. First hole defined the
drill depth limit as I penetrated the tank.
I now have one slightly elongated hole and three fairly clean holes. Trying to
tap with a 5/16 spiral tap but it seams the tap bottoms out against the tank
before it cuts much thread.
So,any suggestions on how to proceed would be very much appreciated. Is JBWeld
a good fix for the hole I put into the tank?
Thanks for any suggestions.
Steve Thornburg
South Bend, IN
'77 exPB "Tinker Toy"
_______________________________________________
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Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale Center Kitchen
403, 3.70 Final Drive
Holley Sniper Quadrajet EFI System,
Holley Hyperspark Ignition System
414-484-9431
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water Heater Repair - UGH! [message #207150 is a reply to message #207147] |
Wed, 08 May 2013 11:39 |
jknezek
Messages: 1057
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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| SThornbg wrote on Wed, 08 May 2013 12:24 |
So Dan, she said she likes the way you think....... 
You were right - got it all back together, turned on water from the hose and its coming out almost as fast as its going in. Got leaks at the hole I drilled in the tank and now the drain valve area is leaking like mad - I think the tank is just so rusty that there is no wall strength left.
Now I've got to get an order into JimK ASAP as we have a rally on the 16th. The CFO has OK'd the deal as she wants some hot water. So, a few more hours crawling around in that tiny bathroom......
Steve Thornburg
South Bend, IN
77 exPB "Tinker Toy"
|
If you are taking the old heater out and putting a new one in, I just finished this job. In my mind, since you have a standard GM floorplan, the best way to do it is to take the back wall of the bathroom so long as you don't have a permanent bed. Take out the passenger side davo (2 simple bolts), take down the bedroom cabinet (2 bolts), pull out the blanket cabinet (a handful of screws), and then undo the screws that hold the back wall in place (I think there are about 8, mostly down the walkway side, but also a few in other places). Then you will have very easy access to to the whole water heater area and it is simple to pull out the old unit and slide a new one in.
I tried to do this piecemeal. I was able to get the old water heater out without getting the wall off, eventually, but getting the new one in was just too much of a pain. It's like trying to get a 10lb brick into a 12lb bag, but the bag opening only allows for 8lbs at once. If you take the wall off, while it requires removing a lot of pieces, they are all simple pieces to remove and reinstall. It also allows you to leave the existing support for the water heater in place when you put the new one in.
Thanks,
Jeremy Knezek
1976 Glenbrook
Birmingham, AL
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water Heater Repair - UGH! [message #207155 is a reply to message #207151] |
Wed, 08 May 2013 11:54 |
Jerry Wheeler
Messages: 246
Registered: January 2013
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Speaking of water heaters, I have 3 units that we have taken out of GMC's;
these are original water heaters from a 73 Painted Desert, 77 Birchaven and
78 Royale. None leaked to my knowledge; the 73 was a manual light and we
changed it out for an automatic light; the 78 unit would not stay lit; it
was an automatic lite; don't know much about the 77 unit. If anyone needs
any parts off these, speak up by this coming Saturday, as these units will
go into our city's large item pickup starting next Monday; also have the
Dometic fridge out of the 77 Birchaven; it's going to the large item pickup
too. I could not get it to work, so replaced it. Items located in Winston
Salem, NC; just pay shipping; first come, first served.
JR Wheeler 78 Royale NC/OR
On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Phillip Udel <admin@salemcorp.com> wrote:
>
>
> How about one of these. This is what I will get when mine goes
>
>
> http://www.hodgesmarine.com/Atwood-Ehm-6-Electric-Water-Heater-W-Heat-Exchang-p/atw93891.htm
>
> --
> Phillip Udel - www.gmcfabrication.com I Own a 1975 Avion, Still removing
> the Mothballs after sitting in storage for 10+ years
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water Heater Repair - UGH! [message #207156 is a reply to message #207155] |
Wed, 08 May 2013 12:00 |
DrPepper
Messages: 80
Registered: February 2013
Location: Goose Creek,SC
Karma: 0
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Member |
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MY Frig is out of my unit right now because of problems, Would you mind if I drooped By on my way home? I work in Winston Salem 
| Jerry Wheeler wrote on Wed, 08 May 2013 12:54 |
Speaking of water heaters, I have 3 units that we have taken out of GMC's;
these are original water heaters from a 73 Painted Desert, 77 Birchaven and
78 Royale. None leaked to my knowledge; the 73 was a manual light and we
changed it out for an automatic light; the 78 unit would not stay lit; it
was an automatic lite; don't know much about the 77 unit. If anyone needs
any parts off these, speak up by this coming Saturday, as these units will
go into our city's large item pickup starting next Monday; also have the
Dometic fridge out of the 77 Birchaven; it's going to the large item pickup
too. I could not get it to work, so replaced it. Items located in Winston
Salem, NC; just pay shipping; first come, first served.
JR Wheeler 78 Royale NC/OR
On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Phillip Udel <admin@salemcorp.com> wrote:
>
>
> How about one of these. This is what I will get when mine goes
>
>
> http://www.hodgesmarine.com/Atwood-Ehm-6-Electric-Water-Heater-W-Heat-Exchang-p/atw93891.htm
>
> --
> Phillip Udel - www.gmcfabrication.com I Own a 1975 Avion, Still removing
> the Mothballs after sitting in storage for 10+ years
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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Phillip Udel - I Own a 1975 Avion
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| Re: Water Heater Repair - UGH! [message #207221 is a reply to message #206661] |
Thu, 09 May 2013 08:02 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Remember, you Avion Owners, the Atwood is an exact replacement for the Atwood in your coach. The Kuuma model that is similar in size will not fit exactly. It is about one inch larger in all dimensions. I had to remove the mount on the Kuuma and extend all the water lines (the Kuuma ports are about 1" away from the OEM water lines and cooper does not easily stretch.)
Lots of places to find Atwood parts on the road, Kuuma not at all.
After spending money on the Kuuma, if I cannot get a replacement part (currently need an over-temperature sensor), I may have to order and install an Atwood. Wife wants hot water, something abut showers.
Tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: Water Heater Repair - UGH! [message #207224 is a reply to message #207221] |
Thu, 09 May 2013 08:18 |
jknezek
Messages: 1057
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Tom -- you might want to look into a Seaward. It is also a direct replacement (size wise) for the Atwood. Seem to find them a little cheaper than the Atwoods and I was impressed with my experience calling Seaward when I had a question about the product.
Just another alternative...
Thanks,
Jeremy Knezek
1976 Glenbrook
Birmingham, AL
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| Re: Water Heater Repair - UGH! [message #207228 is a reply to message #206661] |
Thu, 09 May 2013 09:05 |
Chr$
Messages: 2690
Registered: January 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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I second the SST tank. I completely rebuilt my water heater. Yours is probably full of rust and calcium anyway.
I took the wall off.
Rebuilding gives you a chance to completely redo everything so it is ready for another 30 years.
-Chr$: Perpetual SmartAss
Scottsdale, AZ
77 Ex-Kingsley 455 SOLD!
2010 Nomad 24 Ft TT 390W PV W/MPPT, EV4010 and custom cargo door.
Photosite: Chrisc GMC:"It has Begun" TT: "The Other Woman"
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water Heater Repair - UGH! [message #207230 is a reply to message #207150] |
Thu, 09 May 2013 09:25 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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If you pull the rear wall to the bath module -- my 73 coach had a brace between the module and the wall, located behind the right bath light. May not be the same in later coaches.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/73-painted-desert-230/p35409-0018.html
Dennis
[quote title=jknezek wrote on Wed, 08 May 2013 11:39
If you are taking the old heater out and putting a new one in, I just finished this job. In my mind, since you have a standard GM floorplan, the best way to do it is to take the back wall of the bathroom so long as you don't have a permanent bed. Take out the passenger side davo (2 simple bolts), take down the bedroom cabinet (2 bolts), pull out the blanket cabinet (a handful of screws), and then undo the screws that hold the back wall in place (I think there are about 8, mostly down the walkway side, but also a few in other places). Then you will have very easy access to to the whole water heater area and it is simple to pull out the old unit and slide a new one in.
I tried to do this piecemeal. I was able to get the old water heater out without getting the wall off, eventually, but getting the new one in was just too much of a pain. It's like trying to get a 10lb brick into a 12lb bag, but the bag opening only allows for 8lbs at once. If you take the wall off, while it requires removing a lot of pieces, they are all simple pieces to remove and reinstall. It also allows you to leave the existing support for the water heater in place when you put the new one in.[/quote]
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] Water Heater Repair - UGH! [message #207231 is a reply to message #207230] |
Thu, 09 May 2013 09:33 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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don't forget to read here
www.gmcmotorhome.info/living.html#HOT
gene
On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 7:25 AM, Dennis Sexton <dennisfsexton@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> If you pull the rear wall to the bath module -- my 73 coach had a brace
> between the module and the wall, located behind the right bath light. May
> not be the same in later coaches.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/73-painted-desert-230/p35409-0018.html
>
> Dennis
>
> [quote title=jknezek wrote on Wed, 08 May 2013 11:39
>
> If you are taking the old heater out and putting a new one in, I just
> finished this job. In my mind, since you have a standard GM floorplan, the
> best way to do it is to take the back wall of the bathroom so long as you
> don't have a permanent bed. Take out the passenger side davo (2 simple
> bolts), take down the bedroom cabinet (2 bolts), pull out the blanket
> cabinet (a handful of screws), and then undo the screws that hold the back
> wall in place (I think there are about 8, mostly down the walkway side, but
> also a few in other places). Then you will have very easy access to to the
> whole water heater area and it is simple to pull out the old unit and slide
> a new one in.
>
> I tried to do this piecemeal. I was able to get the old water heater out
> without getting the wall off, eventually, but getting the new one in was
> just too much of a pain. It's like trying to get a 10lb brick into a 12lb
> bag, but the bag opening only allows for 8lbs at once. If you take the wall
> off, while it requires removing a lot of pieces, they are all simple pieces
> to remove and reinstall. It also allows you to leave the existing support
> for the water heater in place when you put the new one in.[/quote]
>
> --
> Dennis S
> 73 Painted Desert 230
> Germantown, TN
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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