Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Exhaust leak and damaged cylinder head web
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| Re: [GMCnet] Exhaust leak and damaged cylinder head web [message #204219 is a reply to message #204204] |
Tue, 09 April 2013 21:36   |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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ugene,
As badly as that port's apparently eroded, I don't have a LOT of
confidence, but it's certainly worth the try to put a Remflex gasket on it.
They're about 1/8" thick, but require some compression to achieve any
strength -- they may not be compressed enough in that area.
Failing that, I'm afraid the head will have to come off & be machined.
Ken H.
Apr 9, 2013 at 9:24 PM, eugene wrote:
>
>
> I removed my headers today to check for a bad gasket, but I found
> something a bit worse.
>
> Here is a picture of the damage:
>
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/112366406585825562876/GMCEFI#5865012609032332898
>
> Is there any easy "fix" for this, or will it require removing the cylinder
> head and having a machine shop do some magic on it or worse?
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Exhaust leak and damaged cylinder head web [message #204222 is a reply to message #204219] |
Tue, 09 April 2013 21:57 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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If Eugene did not want to remove the head -- could he revert to the original exhaust manifolds? They had no split in the exhaust.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/rh-exhaust-manifold-for-sale/p33211-rh-exhaust-manifold-for-sale.html
Dennis
| Ken Henderson wrote on Tue, 09 April 2013 21:36 |
ugene,
As badly as that port's apparently eroded, I don't have a LOT of
confidence, but it's certainly worth the try to put a Remflex gasket on it.
They're about 1/8" thick, but require some compression to achieve any
strength -- they may not be compressed enough in that area.
Failing that, I'm afraid the head will have to come off & be machined.
Ken H.
Apr 9, 2013 at 9:24 PM, eugene wrote:
>
>
> I removed my headers today to check for a bad gasket, but I found
> something a bit worse.
>
> Here is a picture of the damage:
>
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/112366406585825562876/GMCEFI#5865012609032332898
>
> Is there any easy "fix" for this, or will it require removing the cylinder
> head and having a machine shop do some magic on it or worse?
> --
>
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Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] Exhaust leak and damaged cylinder head web [message #204233 is a reply to message #204222] |
Wed, 10 April 2013 01:06 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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First, I do not think that web makes much difference BUT I'M NOT THE EXPERT. Call or send Dick Paterson a copy of that picture and ask him.
http://www.paterson-gmc.com/
Last fall when we had an Olds engine rebuilt locally for a GMC, one of the things Dick has us do was to have that web welded up and ground off flat. When we asked the machine shop to do that it was like no big deal for them. From this I know that the head can easily be welded, but I would ask Dick Paterson first if it is really necessary.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Exhaust leak and damaged cylinder head web [message #204237 is a reply to message #204233] |
Wed, 10 April 2013 03:00 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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There is nothing wrong with the center web.
Clean it up and follow our torquing procedure.
Each casting varies, not will ever seal unless you want to have it built up.
On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 11:06 PM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> First, I do not think that web makes much difference BUT I'M NOT THE
> EXPERT. Call or send Dick Paterson a copy of that picture and ask him.
>
> http://www.paterson-gmc.com/
>
> Last fall when we had an Olds engine rebuilt locally for a GMC, one of the
> things Dick has us do was to have that web welded up and ground off flat.
> When we asked the machine shop to do that it was like no big deal for
> them. From this I know that the head can easily be welded, but I would ask
> Dick Paterson first if it is really necessary.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
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| Re: [GMCnet] Exhaust leak and damaged cylinder head web [message #204247 is a reply to message #204222] |
Wed, 10 April 2013 07:57 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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The problem isn't gonna be so much the side to side erosion as the erosion on the bottom of the port. It looks to have been leaking there for while. If a think gasket doesn't seal it up, it wants remachining if possible, or replacement if not.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach.
________________________________
From: Dennis Sexton <dennisfsexton@aol.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 10:57 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Exhaust leak and damaged cylinder head web
If Eugene did not want to remove the head -- could he revert to the original exhaust manifolds? They had no split in the exhaust.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/rh-exhaust-manifold-for-sale/p33211-rh-exhaust-manifold-for-sale.html
Dennis
Ken Henderson wrote on Tue, 09 April 2013 21:36
> ugene,
>
> As badly as that port's apparently eroded, I don't have a LOT of
> confidence, but it's certainly worth the try to put a Remflex gasket on it.
> They're about 1/8" thick, but require some compression to achieve any
> strength -- they may not be compressed enough in that area.
>
> Failing that, I'm afraid the head will have to come off & be machined.
>
>
> Ken H.
>
> Apr 9, 2013 at 9:24 PM, eugene wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I removed my headers today to check for a bad gasket, but I found
> > something a bit worse.
> >
> > Here is a picture of the damage:
> >
> >
> > https://picasaweb.google.com/112366406585825562876/GMCEFI#5865012609032332898
> >
> > Is there any easy "fix" for this, or will it require removing the cylinder
> > head and having a machine shop do some magic on it or worse?
> > --
> >
--
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Germantown, TN
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Exhaust leak and damaged cylinder head web [message #204248 is a reply to message #204237] |
Wed, 10 April 2013 08:05 |
powerjon
Messages: 2446
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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I agree with Jim on this. It appears that you have a build up on the head surface, it doesn't look eroded. I would suggest that you take a drill and wire brush and clean the head surface up along with the exhaust manifold. You could also take some 180 emery cloth and lightly remove and other build up that might remain. I assume that you have manifolds instead of headers because of the copper gaskets. Copper gaskets do not work well with headers because of the imperfect seating area width around the ports on the header face. That is why Dave Lenzi does not make and sell copper gaskets for headers. I have used the Remflex gaskets on both manifolds and headers and they work very well. The Remflex fills the imperfection on the head and manifold. They are only torqued to 14 to 18 FT/LBS and as other have suggested the top bolt in the middle exhaust port should only be torqued to 8 to 10 FT/LBS. Looking at the threads on the center bolt I would suggest that you clean up t
he threads with a bottoming tap and use a lot of WD-40 type fluid to clean and proceed slowly going in and out several times to clean the tap as you go. When finished clean all the threads in the bolt holes with brake cleaner to remove all the WD-40 or what ever you used as taping fluid. I use a copper based high temp neverseize when reinstalling the bolts and wire bush and clean the bolts or use new bolts. Jim K has the best price on both the manifold and header versions of the Remflex gasket, he is $10 less than what I can get them locally. Dick P always welds up the heads he uses in his motor to provide a mating surface for the gasket to manifold or header as other have also said and if you or other out there ever have to have the heads redone then have it done at that time.
JR Wright
78 Buskirk Stretch
Michigan
On Apr 10, 2013, at 4:00 AM, Jim Kanomata <jimkanomata@gmail.com> wrote:
> There is nothing wrong with the center web.
> Clean it up and follow our torquing procedure.
> Each casting varies, not will ever seal unless you want to have it built up.
>
> On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 11:06 PM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> First, I do not think that web makes much difference BUT I'M NOT THE
>> EXPERT. Call or send Dick Paterson a copy of that picture and ask him.
>>
>> http://www.paterson-gmc.com/
>>
>> Last fall when we had an Olds engine rebuilt locally for a GMC, one of the
>> things Dick has us do was to have that web welded up and ground off flat.
>> When we asked the machine shop to do that it was like no big deal for
>> them. From this I know that the head can easily be welded, but I would ask
>> Dick Paterson first if it is really necessary.
>> --
>> Ken Burton - N9KB
>> 76 Palm Beach
>> Hebron, Indiana
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
GMC Eastern States
GMCMI
78 30' Buskirk Stretch
75 Avion Under Reconstruction
Michigan
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| Re: [GMCnet] Exhaust leak and damaged cylinder head web [message #204258 is a reply to message #204219] |
Wed, 10 April 2013 09:29 |
Jp Benson
Messages: 649
Registered: October 2011
Location: Fla
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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My original motor looked the same way on both sides. The original exhaust manifolds had one large opening that spanned both
exhaust ports. One was cracked so I put them both on the curb for the metal scrappers and bought headers.
On my rebuilt motor the Thorley gaskets burned out at the web on both sides of the engine. Then I noticed that the web between the center ports is recessed. It is not machined at all. Could the original exhaust manifold be the cause of this problem or is that just the way the motor was produced at the factory? I've read that this is an issue for performance enthusiasts.
JP
>________________________________
> From: Ken Henderson <hend4800@bellsouth.net>
>To: gmclist <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
>Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 10:36 PM
>Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Exhaust leak and damaged cylinder head web
>
>ugene,
>
>As badly as that port's apparently eroded, I don't have a LOT of
>confidence, but it's certainly worth the try to put a Remflex gasket on it.
>They're about 1/8" thick, but require some compression to achieve any
>strength -- they may not be compressed enough in that area.
>
>Failing that, I'm afraid the head will have to come off & be machined.
>
>
>Ken H.
>
>Apr 9, 2013 at 9:24 PM, eugene wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I removed my headers today to check for a bad gasket, but I found
>> something a bit worse.
>>
>> Here is a picture of the damage:
>>
>>
>> https://picasaweb.google.com/112366406585825562876/GMCEFI#5865012609032332898
>>
>> Is there any easy "fix" for this, or will it require removing the cylinder
>> head and having a machine shop do some magic on it or worse?
>> --
>>
>_______________________________________________
>GMCnet mailing list
>Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Exhaust leak and damaged cylinder head web [message #204299 is a reply to message #204248] |
Wed, 10 April 2013 08:52 |
 |
batman
Messages: 100
Registered: January 2004
Location: Benbrook, TX
Karma: -3
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Senior Member |
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I actually have headers, so sounds like I need to go with a different
gasket no matter what. I'm going to remove the exhaust header to get it
out of the way and get a better look at the head mating surface and clean
it up. At this time, I'm not up for removing the heads, so I'll just live
with the side to side pass thru.
On Wednesday, 10 April 2013 08:05:01 UTC-5, John Wright wrote:
>
> <snip> I assume that you have manifolds instead of headers because of the
> copper gaskets. Copper gaskets do not work well with headers because of
> the imperfect seating area width around the ports on the header face. That
> is why Dave Lenzi does not make and sell copper gaskets for headers. <snip>
>
> JR Wright
> 78 Buskirk Stretch
> Michigan
>
>
>
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eugene
benbrook, tx
77 Eleganza II, Howell EFI + EBL
http://gmc.backyardwildlife.com
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