Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » What was the first production date of Coachmen Royales & Birchavens?
| What was the first production date of Coachmen Royales & Birchavens? [message #203790] |
Fri, 05 April 2013 19:05  |
rcjordan
Messages: 1913
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Location: Elizabeth City, North Car...
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I see 75 Royales mentioned here. Bill Bryant says Coachmen started in 1975 but were they always producing Royales and Birchavens or were there other Coachmen models that came and went?
SOLD 77 Royale Coachmen Side Dry Bath
76 Birchaven Coachmen Side Wet Bath
76 Eleganza
Elizabeth City, NC
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| Re: What was the first production date of Coachmen Royales & Birchavens? [message #203809 is a reply to message #203790] |
Fri, 05 April 2013 21:44  |
bryant374
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What was the first production date of Coachmen Royales & Birchavens?
Fri, 05 April 2013 20:05
rcjordan
I see 75 Royales mentioned here. Bill Bryant says Coachmen started in 1975 but were they always producing Royales and Birchavens or were there other Coachmen models that came and went?
>
>
rc
When I read that I said Royales & Birchavens were built in 1975 I thought, "no way". Then I went looking and found in the GM Wiki where my mind must not have been connected to my typing finger(s).
Under the heading, 1977 Build Total you will find the following, " The TransMode continued with many upfitters participating. The major upfitter since 1975 was Coachmen....".
Poorly worded, what I was trying to say was, The largest upfitter of Transmodes for all years was Coachmen with the Royale & Birchaven. That does not define which years the Coachmen models were built. I mentioned the GMC built Motorhome details for each year, but not the Transmode "upfit by manufacturer" details for any year.
Sorry for that poor description, Royale & Birchaven were only built in 1976, 1977 & 1978. Coachmen did not build any other GMC MH models other than those.
Bill Bryant
PO 1976~PB (owned 34 years)
1914 Ford (owned 70 years)
1965 Corvette (owned 39 years)
GMC Motorhome History
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| Re: What was the first production date of Coachmen Royales & Birchavens? [message #203813 is a reply to message #203790] |
Fri, 05 April 2013 22:48 |
rcjordan
Messages: 1913
Registered: October 2012
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Thanks for the clarification, Bill.
I'm having some minor issues reconciling the chart linked above.
Was the GMC Avion only produced for one model year?
Is the Eleganza S.E. considered a concept vehicle or a full model?
Is 1976 the first model year of the Eleganza II ?
Did the Glenbrook only last 1 year; 1976?
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| Re: What was the first production date of Coachmen Royales & Birchavens? [message #203822 is a reply to message #203813] |
Sat, 06 April 2013 03:48 |
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mike miller
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| rcjordan wrote on Fri, 05 April 2013 20:48 |
Thanks for the clarification, Bill.
I'm having some minor issues reconciling the chart linked above.
Was the GMC Avion only produced for one model year?
Is the Eleganza S.E. considered a concept vehicle or a full model?
Is 1976 the first model year of the Eleganza II ?
Did the Glenbrook only last 1 year; 1976?
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Some of the answers to your questions are found on the GMCMH Registry Trivia page: <http://www.gmcmhregistry.com/Trivia.html>
For your other questions... off the top of my head... from what I think I know:
I do not know about Royales, but I understand that there are a couple of 1975 Birchavens listed in the registry. I did find that one of these Birch's was really a 23 foot Avion (a rare model) that someone had painted to look like a 1978 Birch. It even had real Birchaven labels right on it!
I am fairly sure that most 1975 coachman products (Royale/Bichaven) where up-fitted late in the 1975 model year... more like "production prototypes" for the next year's models. OBTW: Check out the numbers of 26 foot TransModes built in 1978... most would have ended up as Royales. No wonder there always seems to be a lot of 1978 Royales at rallies. (Plus they where nice coaches to start with!)
Yes, all Avions were upfitted in 1975, but I have heard of at least one titled as a 1976.
The Eleganza S.E. was both a concept vehicle and a full model. But it was only produced for 1/2 a year... the last part of 1974. This model was forerunner of the "new for 1975" models, having some, but not all, of the '75 upgrades.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] What was the first production date of Coachmen Royales & Birchavens? [message #203832 is a reply to message #203824] |
Sat, 06 April 2013 08:43 |
Jerry Wheeler
Messages: 246
Registered: January 2013
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Adding to the confusion about Coachman models, I went to Virginia 2 years
ago to pick up a 455 that came out of a 1975 or 1976 Birchaven (can't
remember which I was told); I also wanted the seat bases since they would
not be sloped like those in 73 and 74 models. When I arrived, the coach
was painted like a Birchaven; had the rear ladder and the rails on top, but
the seat bases were sloped; so I assumed this was a 1974 transmode that
Coachman outfitted. Did some of those seat bases bleed over into the 1975
year??
JR Wheeler 78 Royale NC/OR
PS: I now have my deceased friend's 1977 Birchaven for sale after working
on it for 2+ years; you can see it on CL in Winston Salem, NC OR on RC
Jordan's website for GMCs for sale. This is a nice coach.
On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 7:52 AM, Roger Black <r1black@comcast.net> wrote:
> Bill,
>
> "Sorry for that poor description, Royale & Birchaven were only built
> in 1976, 1977 & 1978. Coachmen did not build any other GMC MH models
> other than those."
>
> You are not taking into consideration that model years began in Sep
> back then so the first '76's could have been built originally from Sep
> 75 on. Hence the build date of 75 but on a coach officially
> designated a 76 model.
>
> Roger Black
> 77 Birchaven
> Burns, Tn
>
>
>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] What was the first production date of Coachmen Royales & Birchavens? [message #203835 is a reply to message #203832] |
Sat, 06 April 2013 08:59 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
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JR,
My '76 Birchaven #1080 came with sloped-top seat bases; I'm sure they were
original.
Ken H.
On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 9:43 AM, Jerry Wheeler <jrwheeler7@gmail.com> wrote:
> Adding to the confusion about Coachman models, I went to Virginia 2 years
> ago to pick up a 455 that came out of a 1975 or 1976 Birchaven (can't
> remember which I was told); I also wanted the seat bases since they would
> not be sloped like those in 73 and 74 models. When I arrived, the coach
> was painted like a Birchaven; had the rear ladder and the rails on top, but
> the seat bases were sloped; so I assumed this was a 1974 transmode that
> Coachman outfitted. Did some of those seat bases bleed over into the 1975
> year??
>
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Ken Henderson
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www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] What was the first production date of Coachmen Royales & Birchavens? [message #203843 is a reply to message #203824] |
Sat, 06 April 2013 10:17 |
bryant374
Messages: 563
Registered: May 2004
Location: Pleasant Valley, NY 12569
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You are not taking into consideration that model years began in Sep
back then so the first '76's could have been built originally from Sep
75 on. Hence the build date of 75 but on a coach officially
designated a 76 model.
Roger Black
77 Birchaven
Burns, Tn
>
>
Roger, you are correct. I was thinking "model year 1976" and not "build year".
The question was "first production date" for Coachmen, here is what we know and don't know:
- Production for 1976 Transmodes & GMC MHs started in July of 1975. The date is imprinted on the glove box sticker at top left.
- Transmodes would have been driven to the upfitter locations where that company would have started their build process in an unknown sequence. Completion dates generally are unknown, often a tag or sticker was added by that manufacturer which identified their mfg. date. I don't know that anyone has tracked those dates.
- So now we have two completion dates for "incomplete vehicles". One for the Transmode and the second for the upfitter. For Coachmen interiors there should be a sticker on the inside of one of the (kitchen) cabinet doors.
There are so many examples of GMCs that don't seem to follow the expected or "recognized" information, here are just a couple of examples:
1973 Palm Beach & Eleganzas, Glenmont, an original 1978 with a Coachmen Royale interior, a Palm Beach exterior and the exterior script name of RALLY. I saw this one in the mid 1980s, am sure this is the way it came from the manufacturer (whoever they may have been) and I nearly bought it.
The Eleganze SE (Special Edition) is an interesting case. Alex Mair championed the Motorhome and wanted it to be the halo vehicle for the GMC Division. A Motorhome Dealer Convention was planned for Las Vegas in late February 1974. Mair gave the Designers/Engineers about a month to have an upscale model available for the Las Vegas showing. They had purchased enough material that was used for Olds 98 seats to finish 50 GMCs in preparation for possible dealer orders. The SE was a hit and a sellout.
Now the question, there are several 1973 Eleganza(SE) in the registery. How could that be, they weren't even shown to dealers until late February 1974? Oh well, Ill let someone else figure that out 
Bill Bryant
PO 1976~PB (owned 34 years)
1914 Ford (owned 70 years)
1965 Corvette (owned 39 years)
GMC Motorhome History
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| Re: [GMCnet] What was the first production date of Coachmen Royales & Birchavens? [message #203853 is a reply to message #203832] |
Sat, 06 April 2013 11:02 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
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| Jerry Wheeler wrote on Sat, 06 April 2013 06:43 |
Adding to the confusion about Coachman models, I went to Virginia 2 years ago to pick up a 455 that came out of a 1975 or 1976 Birchaven (can't remember which I was told); I also wanted the seat bases since they would not be sloped like those in 73 and 74 models. When I arrived, the coach was painted like a Birchaven; had the rear ladder and the rails on top, but the seat bases were sloped; so I assumed this was a 1974 transmode that Coachman outfitted. Did some of those seat bases bleed over into the 1975 year?? ...
|
Many of the "running changes," like the seat bases and steering wheels (mostly interior parts) did not make it to the transmodes at the same time as the GM up-fitted coaches. Sometimes transmodes didn't get the newer style parts for a year or so later. I am fairly sure most '75 transmodes came with slanted seat bases... unless the up-fitter specified something different.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] What was the first production date of Coachmen Royales& Birchavens? [message #203879 is a reply to message #203843] |
Sat, 06 April 2013 20:04 |
Kosier
Messages: 834
Registered: February 2008
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Bill,
About fifteen years ago we went down to Ohio University because the were
selling a GMC.
It was a '76 Royale, but with a VERY early '75 VIN. I pointed out to the
auctioneer that it
was really a '75, but he said the title said 1976, so it was therefore a
'76. It was pretty
sad, so I bid what I thought it was worth and the bidding went on. Never
saw or heard
of it again. Also, it was painted white.(and filthy)
Gary Kosier
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Bryant
Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2013 11:17 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] What was the first production date of Coachmen
Royales& Birchavens?
You are not taking into consideration that model years began in Sep
back then so the first '76's could have been built originally from Sep
75 on. Hence the build date of 75 but on a coach officially
designated a 76 model.
Roger Black
77 Birchaven
Burns, Tn
>
>
Roger, you are correct. I was thinking "model year 1976" and not "build
year".
The question was "first production date" for Coachmen, here is what we know
and don't know:
- Production for 1976 Transmodes & GMC MHs started in July of 1975. The date
is imprinted on the glove box sticker at top left.
- Transmodes would have been driven to the upfitter locations where that
company would have started their build process in an unknown sequence.
Completion dates generally are unknown, often a tag or sticker was added by
that manufacturer which identified their mfg. date. I don't know that
anyone has tracked those dates.
- So now we have two completion dates for "incomplete vehicles". One for the
Transmode and the second for the upfitter. For Coachmen interiors there
should be a sticker on the inside of one of the (kitchen) cabinet doors.
There are so many examples of GMCs that don't seem to follow the expected or
"recognized" information, here are just a couple of examples:
1973 Palm Beach & Eleganzas, Glenmont, an original 1978 with a Coachmen
Royale interior, a Palm Beach exterior and the exterior script name of
RALLY. I saw this one in the mid 1980s, am sure this is the way it came
from the manufacturer (whoever they may have been) and I nearly bought it.
The Eleganze SE (Special Edition) is an interesting case. Alex Mair
championed the Motorhome and wanted it to be the halo vehicle for the GMC
Division. A Motorhome Dealer Convention was planned for Las Vegas in late
February 1974. Mair gave the Designers/Engineers about a month to have an
upscale model available for the Las Vegas showing. They had purchased
enough material that was used for Olds 98 seats to finish 50 GMCs in
preparation for possible dealer orders. The SE was a hit and a sellout.
Now the question, there are several 1973 Eleganza(SE) in the registery. How
could that be, they weren't even shown to dealers until late February 1974?
Oh well, Ill let someone else figure that out ;)
--
Bill Bryant
1976~PB
1914 Ford
1965 Corvette
GMC MH History CD
GMC Showroom Films DVD
http://bdub.net/billbryant/
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| Re: [GMCnet] What was the first production date of Coachmen Royales& Birchavens? [message #203898 is a reply to message #203879] |
Sun, 07 April 2013 02:36 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
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| Kosier wrote on Sat, 06 April 2013 18:04 |
...
It was a '76 Royale, but with a VERY early '75 VIN. I pointed out to the auctioneer that it was really a '75, but he said the title said 1976, ...
... Also, it was painted white.(and filthy)
|
It is quite possible the coach was at Coachman (as an example, display, training aid or something) for most of the 1975 model year. Then "completed" and sold. Many states would title the vehicle as the higher of the model year or the year first sold. That could explain it, but I don't KNOW. 
I have noticed that, for the most part, transmodes were white in 1975 and 1976, yellow in 1977 and tan in 1978. I have not heard of an up-fitter that repainted the entire coach. They normally would just add graphics to the paint GM put on it.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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