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| Air fittings and sealants [message #203048] |
Sat, 30 March 2013 11:48  |
mickey szilagyi
Messages: 273
Registered: January 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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We're in the process of replacing our airbags and in doing the first one have an air leak. Before proceeding to really mess things up and ruin fittings we'd appreciate a little help understanding how things go together and what each part plays. We are reusing one fitting, the 45 that goes into the airbag between the shraeder valve and shut off valve which then attaches to the air line. WE have a leak where the 45 goes into the new airbag.
Are the fittings meant to seal themselves and is the use of a sealant just a secondary measure to help prevent leaks or is the use of the sealant a major and necessary step in preventing air leaks. We used teflon tape, about three layers and tightened the fitting to the point where it was getting pretty tight. We were concerned if we went any tighter we'd split or damage one of the fittings so we took everything apart and will start over. We're buying a new 45 for each side and some Permatex 54540 thread sealant. Using the sealant, is there a general rule of thumb how many revolutions it takes to tighten the fittings once they start to grab. Can the fitting still have plenty of turns left but if it's on a ways and sealant is used can we stop and let the sealant take care of any possible leak.
Threading lightly here - we're replacing the OEMs with the latest batch available from Cinnabar. We considered all the info on all the systems and have decided our skills and needs may be best met by our final choice. We'll see and hopefully learn and who knows what the results will be. We've just started out on our project and have learned a tremedous amount from all of you, thanks. We recently bought 7 American Eagle SS wheels from KimK and will be buying 7 new 16 inch E rated tires soon.
Mickey
77 Kingsley, Lansing MI
Mickey
1977 Kingsley, 403, Lansing, MI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Air fittings and sealants [message #203052 is a reply to message #203048] |
Sat, 30 March 2013 12:07  |
James Hupy
Messages: 6806
Registered: May 2010
Karma: -62
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Senior Member |
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Mickey, threaded pipes have two slightly different tapers between the male
and female threads. They are intended to be tightened to the point where
the interference between the two fittings creates an air or fluid tight
seal. You have already found out that the white sliktape does not always
provide such a seal. Also, when the fitting is turned to the point that it
will line up where you want it to, it might not be tight enough to seal as
well. If you try to turn it one more complete turn, crap happens, and it
breaks off in the threads. What I do when I encounter a similar situation,
is to take my pipe tap and run it into the female thread until it tightens
up, then turn it in about 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn. Back it out and re try the
fitting. I always use thread sealant on the threads when doing final
assembly. DO NOT back the fittings up after they have been tightened. I
absolutely gur-an-tee you that they will leak if you do. Carefully inspect
all fittings for cracks. The offshore ones are made from recycled scrap and
often have porosities that leak as well. I usually go to a truck supply
place and buy only D.O.T. certified fittings. They are usually made in the
USA and are of very high "tested" quality. Check the threaded fitting in
the end of the new airbag as well. If they are the same design as the
original, they are a leak waiting for a place to happen. I build wireless
air systems and encounter this stuff all the time. Hope this helps.
Jim Hupy, JBH Products
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403
On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Mickey Szilagyi
<mickey@apex-internet.com>wrote:
>
>
> We're in the process of replacing our airbags and in doing the first one
> have an air leak. Before proceeding to really mess things up and ruin
> fittings we'd appreciate a little help understanding how things go together
> and what each part plays. We are reusing one fitting, the 45 that goes
> into the airbag between the shraeder valve and shut off valve which then
> attaches to the air line. WE have a leak where the 45 goes into the new
> airbag.
>
> Are the fittings meant to seal themselves and is the use of a sealant just
> a secondary measure to help prevent leaks or is the use of the sealant a
> major and necessary step in preventing air leaks. We used teflon tape,
> about three layers and tightened the fitting to the point where it was
> getting pretty tight. We were concerned if we went any tighter we'd split
> or damage one of the fittings so we took everything apart and will start
> over. We're buying a new 45 for each side and some Permatex 54540 thread
> sealant. Using the sealant, is there a general rule of thumb how many
> revolutions it takes to tighten the fittings once they start to grab. Can
> the fitting still have plenty of turns left but if it's on a ways and
> sealant is used can we stop and let the sealant take care of any possible
> leak.
>
> Threading lightly here - we're replacing the OEMs with the latest batch
> available from Cinnabar. We considered all the info on all the systems and
> have decided our skills and needs may be best met by our final choice.
> We'll see and hopefully learn and who knows what the results will be.
> We've just started out on our project and have learned a tremedous amount
> from all of you, thanks. We recently bought 7 American Eagle SS wheels
> from KimK and will be buying 7 new 16 inch E rated tires soon.
>
> Mickey
> 77 Kingsley, Lansing MI
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Air fittings and sealants [message #203112 is a reply to message #203048] |
Sat, 30 March 2013 18:24 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Same as Hupy said but one other thing to add.
Plumbers paste for sealing black gas pipe works well also. If you wrap the male fitting counter clockwise so the tape won't push off and batter it with thread paste without shedding some inside the fitting even dinged threads will seal.
Works for me
Sully
77 royale
Seattle
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 30, 2013, at 9:48 AM, Mickey Szilagyi <mickey@apex-internet.com> wrote:
>
>
> We're in the process of replacing our airbags and in doing the first one have an air leak. Before proceeding to really mess things up and ruin fittings we'd appreciate a little help understanding how things go together and what each part plays. We are reusing one fitting, the 45 that goes into the airbag between the shraeder valve and shut off valve which then attaches to the air line. WE have a leak where the 45 goes into the new airbag.
>
> Are the fittings meant to seal themselves and is the use of a sealant just a secondary measure to help prevent leaks or is the use of the sealant a major and necessary step in preventing air leaks. We used teflon tape, about three layers and tightened the fitting to the point where it was getting pretty tight. We were concerned if we went any tighter we'd split or damage one of the fittings so we took everything apart and will start over. We're buying a new 45 for each side and some Permatex 54540 thread sealant. Using the sealant, is there a general rule of thumb how many revolutions it takes to tighten the fittings once they start to grab. Can the fitting still have plenty of turns left but if it's on a ways and sealant is used can we stop and let the sealant take care of any possible leak.
>
> Threading lightly here - we're replacing the OEMs with the latest batch available from Cinnabar. We considered all the info on all the systems and have decided our skills and needs may be best met by our final choice. We'll see and hopefully learn and who knows what the results will be. We've just started out on our project and have learned a tremedous amount from all of you, thanks. We recently bought 7 American Eagle SS wheels from KimK and will be buying 7 new 16 inch E rated tires soon.
>
> Mickey
> 77 Kingsley, Lansing MI
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Air fittings and sealants [message #203180 is a reply to message #203112] |
Sun, 31 March 2013 09:11 |
mickey szilagyi
Messages: 273
Registered: January 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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As soon as we get new fittings we'll wrap several layers of teflon tape on the male threads and then add some sealant as well. Hopefully it will work. We did notice some dings on the original fittings so we're going to start with new ones just because. Never fails but it's the stuff you don't think of that seems to be the problems. We're trying to take it slow and think things out so we don't take too many backward steps. We also noticed that if we don't tighten the airbag bolts right away that we can rotate the bag a little bit at a time so we don't have to tighten the fitting a full turn to get the everything to line up.
Thanks all for the help.
Mickey,
77 Kingsley 403, Lansing, MI
Mickey
1977 Kingsley, 403, Lansing, MI
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| Re: Air fittings and sealants [message #203184 is a reply to message #203048] |
Sun, 31 March 2013 09:28 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| Mickey Szilagyi wrote on Sat, 30 March 2013 09:48 |
We're in the process of replacing our airbags and in doing the first one have an air leak. ...
... We are reusing one fitting, the 45 that goes into the airbag between the shraeder valve and shut off valve which then attaches to the air line. WE have a leak where the 45 goes into the new airbag.
... We used teflon tape, about three layers and tightened the fitting to the point where it was getting pretty tight. ...
|
JimH has given good advice but two points:
1. Be aware that the parts you are re-using are not OEM, (no shraeders from the factory) so what we think you are talking about might not be EXACTLY what you have, Also, added fittings at the airbag have been known to crack.
2, Just from reading here, you really want to be careful about using teflon tape on your air system. Many have reported problems with small chunks of tape getting in the valves. I'd at least be careful to start the tape a few threads from the end... reducing the tape actually inside the system.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Air fittings and sealants [message #203186 is a reply to message #203180] |
Sun, 31 March 2013 09:32 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| Mickey Szilagyi wrote on Sun, 31 March 2013 10:11 |
As soon as we get new fittings we'll wrap several layers of teflon tape on the male threads and then add some sealant as well. Hopefully it will work. We did notice some dings on the original fittings so we're going to start with new ones just because. Never fails but it's the stuff you don't think of that seems to be the problems. We're trying to take it slow and think things out so we don't take too many backward steps. We also noticed that if we don't tighten the airbag bolts right away that we can rotate the bag a little bit at a time so we don't have to tighten the fitting a full turn to get the everything to line up.
Thanks all for the help.
Mickey,
77 Kingsley 403, Lansing, MI
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Mickey,
About teflon tape.....
Start the wrap a thread back from the end of the fitting and never use more than a turn and an half in the thread direction.
I use it a lot, but only when I want a dry assembly.
Most of the time, I use a teflon loaded thread sealant. Use it sparingly. If you fill the first couple of threads most of the way around, that will be plenty. (Yes, your fingers will get messy until you create the talent.) The stuff isn't cheap, but if you buy a tube now, you will have trouble remember what year you bought it when you have to go find another.
Matt - Still headed home the long way
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: Air fittings and sealants [message #203211 is a reply to message #203048] |
Sun, 31 March 2013 18:02 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Holding fitting in your left hand,wrap bottom side towards you and top away. Sorry if I'm being too remedial here. Rest is "what they said".
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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