Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Introducing the Manny Brake System
| [GMCnet] Introducing the Manny Brake System [message #202746] |
Wed, 27 March 2013 14:58  |
Thomas Pryor
Messages: 143
Registered: January 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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The Manny Brake System -- THE REST OF THE STORY
I became aware of a theft issue that was revealed at Dothan tribal
meeting this past weekend.
At Dothan, Jim K revealed that Manny regularly visits Applied GMC.
During one or more
of those visits he collected information on the Reaction Arm Brake System
that Jim K developed with Chuck Alguar and designer Rich Flanagan.
Manny requested from Jim K supplier info and part numbers under the
pretense that he, -Manny-,
was going to use the information to add the Reaction Arm portion on
Gene Fisher’s coach
that already had been up–fitted with disk brakes.
JIM K UNDERSTOOD THIS TO BE A ONE-TIME HARMLESS EVENT.
At Dothan, Jim K was surprised to see the newly revealed Manny
Braking System, at pricing that can
only be described as selling at cost or dumping. Jim K was never
consulted for permission or how he
could be reimbursed for his previous development, testing and designing costs.
In my opinion, anyone who purchases this system is supporting the
demise of the vendor base.
The GMC Tribe is small and getting smaller. The Vendors eeck-out a
relatively small profit and support
their businesses with other ventures to support us. What happens when
our vendors no longer
survive because of these type of tatics.
Will Manny support our tribe with his presence at tribal meetings?
Spread good will, lottery gifts,
and provide un-paralled service when we are stranded on the road?
Folks, I’ve never met this Manny. He is a non-entity to me. Jim K has always
been truthful with me and is well respected by his customers and
fellow vendors.
As I Stated earlier this is Theft!
Tom Pryor
Transmode 23 TZE337V101011
Living on a waterfront is not a matter of life or death. Its more
important than that.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Introducing the Manny Brake System [message #202760 is a reply to message #202746] |
Wed, 27 March 2013 16:38  |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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You should get your facts straight before you say these lies.
And
Why was my name in this abomination?
Gene
FREE WIFI @ Mickey D
On Mar 27, 2013, at 12:58 PM, Thomas Pryor <tepryor@gmail.com> wrote:
> The Manny Brake System -- THE REST OF THE STORY
>
> I became aware of a theft issue that was revealed at Dothan tribal
> meeting this past weekend.
>
> At Dothan, Jim K revealed that Manny regularly visits Applied GMC.
> During one or more
> of those visits he collected information on the Reaction Arm Brake System
> that Jim K developed with Chuck Alguar and designer Rich Flanagan.
>
> Manny requested from Jim K supplier info and part numbers under the
> pretense that he, -Manny-,
> was going to use the information to add the Reaction Arm portion on
> Gene Fisher’s coach
> that already had been up–fitted with disk brakes.
>
> JIM K UNDERSTOOD THIS TO BE A ONE-TIME HARMLESS EVENT.
>
> At Dothan, Jim K was surprised to see the newly revealed Manny
> Braking System, at pricing that can
> only be described as selling at cost or dumping. Jim K was never
> consulted for permission or how he
> could be reimbursed for his previous development, testing and designing costs.
>
> In my opinion, anyone who purchases this system is supporting the
> demise of the vendor base.
> The GMC Tribe is small and getting smaller. The Vendors eeck-out a
> relatively small profit and support
> their businesses with other ventures to support us. What happens when
> our vendors no longer
> survive because of these type of tatics.
>
> Will Manny support our tribe with his presence at tribal meetings?
> Spread good will, lottery gifts,
> and provide un-paralled service when we are stranded on the road?
>
> Folks, I’ve never met this Manny. He is a non-entity to me. Jim K has always
> been truthful with me and is well respected by his customers and
> fellow vendors.
>
> As I Stated earlier this is Theft!
>
>
>
>
>
> Tom Pryor
> Transmode 23 TZE337V101011
>
> Living on a waterfront is not a matter of life or death. Its more
> important than that.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Introducing the Manny Brake System [message #202764 is a reply to message #202746] |
Wed, 27 March 2013 17:08 |
jknezek
Messages: 1057
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Before this one gets out of hand, can we just have the original posting removed or ignore it? The word THEFT is pretty ugly and shouldn't be tossed around lightly. Similarly DUMPING is not accurate given the information that was available in Dothan (and yes, I spent considerable time talking to Kerry P, who was basically Manny's guy on the site, about the system).
If you have concerns about the Manny system, speak with him. Manny Trovao has made himself available to many who have called to talk, hopefully he will continue to do so if you have questions or concerns and don't approach it in an insulting manner.
Thanks,
Jeremy Knezek
1976 Glenbrook
Birmingham, AL
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| Re: [GMCnet] Introducing the Manny Brake System [message #202767 is a reply to message #202764] |
Wed, 27 March 2013 17:45 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Good reply, Jeremy.
There's a lot more to this story than anyone, including me, knows. It has
been extensively discussed, behind the scenes. It is not a "good"
situation, but it is really no worse than the Quad-Bag vs 4-Bag situation
earlier -- and many others, in every industry, and every group, forever. I
suspect Ogg didn't like it when Ugg started also using clubs instead of
throwing rocks as they'd done before. The details of the competition are
for the principals to work out between themselves. For the rest of us, we
can only follow our own judgments and best interests.
I'll have nothing more to say on the subject.
If anyone else wants to build electric wipers, have at it. The critical
part of the design is the relative lengths and relationships of the arms.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 6:08 PM, Jeremy wrote:
>
>
> Before this one gets out of hand, can we just have the original posting
> removed or ignore it? The word THEFT is pretty ugly and shouldn't be tossed
> around lightly. Similarly DUMPING is not accurate given the information
> that was available in Dothan (and yes, I spent considerable time talking to
> Kerry P, who was basically Manny's guy on the site, about the system).
>
> If you have concerns about the Manny system, speak with him. Manny Trovao
> has made himself available to many who have called to talk, hopefully he
> will continue to do so if you have questions or concerns and don't approach
> it in an insulting manner.
> --
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Introducing the Manny Brake System [message #202771 is a reply to message #202767] |
Wed, 27 March 2013 18:15 |
MIGUEL MENDEZ
Messages: 179
Registered: August 2004
Location: Montclair, California
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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I am so glad no one has taken my idea and made any money of it, the truth is, this is a shame that this had to come to this, but it has, I have many ideas and I implement many of them, and the ones I cannot do due to money, i send to Jim, i have even talk to many one a couple of ides and he looked at me after thinking of my plan, he then turned to me and F'er, your right, that would work perfect, he then told me to keep on with the r & d, I put it on the back burner for now.
But given time, my idea will blow away the reaction arm, but then, can i sell it???
who knows
I know Jim loves Manny and Manny loves Jim to death, maybe those 2 need to hash it out while i eat ice cream, hmmmmm, sounds fun, but writing these things here is just really not the thing to be doing
Miguel
1978 Royale Pain in the %$@, side bath w/ a 403 that i love.
GMC name : The other woman
http://www.mgmgmc.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] Introducing the Manny Brake System [message #202779 is a reply to message #202771] |
Wed, 27 March 2013 19:24 |
mickeysss
Messages: 1476
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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MGM
Please send me my receipt from last year - thank you Mickey
77 palm beach
Anaheim ca.
Best regards
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 27, 2013, at 4:15 PM, MIGUEL MENDEZ <mokingo6@msn.com> wrote:
>
>
> I am so glad no one has taken my idea and made any money of it, the truth is, this is a shame that this had to come to this, but it has, I have many ideas and I implement many of them, and the ones I cannot do due to money, i send to Jim, i have even talk to many one a couple of ides and he looked at me after thinking of my plan, he then turned to me and F'er, your right, that would work perfect, he then told me to keep on with the r & d, I put it on the back burner for now.
>
> But given time, my idea will blow away the reaction arm, but then, can i sell it???
> who knows
>
> I know Jim loves Manny and Manny loves Jim to death, maybe those 2 need to hash it out while i eat ice cream, hmmmmm, sounds fun, but writing these things here is just really not the thing to be doing
> --
> Miguel
>
> 1978 Royale Pain in the %$@, side bath w/ a 403 that i love.
>
> GMC name : The other woman
>
>
> http://www.mgmgmc.com
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [GMCnet] Introducing the Manny Brake System [message #202795 is a reply to message #202746] |
Wed, 27 March 2013 21:09 |
KB
Messages: 1262
Registered: September 2009
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Because both kits are based on Chuck Algur's design, there are, of course,
similarities. If you look though, you will see very substantial differences.
This is NOT simply a knock-off of JimK's kit.
Reaction/torque type brakes/suspensions have been around for decades
in other applications, and Chuck was not the only one to apply
the idea to GMC's.
I've seen no evidence that Manny tried to hide the development
of this kit from anyone. Quite the contrary since he openly
installed the kit here in California at a rally a couple
of months ago. It's also been mentioned in passing on the forum
for some time.
I appreciate and support ALL our vendors to the extent
that I can, and do my best not to take sides.
Karen
1973 23'
1975 26'
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Karen
1975 26'
San Jose, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] Introducing the Manny Brake System [message #202813 is a reply to message #202802] |
Thu, 28 March 2013 03:40 |
mickeysss
Messages: 1476
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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some do , some talk, manny does, jimK does, Jim B does, The three great ones are the integrity that helps us all and we all
do not have to say a word to protect them for their actions say it all, pure integrity.
Thank you jimK, JimB, and the only tranny to have manny who drove 10 hours to rebuild my trans.
I trust my credit card with JimK, and JimB. what more can i say.
THere are others and i hope to buy from them as well. Lets help them in anyway we can.
also donate to these sites that help us so much, we thank you so much.
god bless them
We are so blessed to have people like them to help us all.
There is nothing wrong with having a few fights along the way. we are all human.
In my gmc song there is a line below.
When i get to the rally without a bent fender
i go straight to venders with all credit cards maxed out
with ice cream and grins and few fights on the chin
we all go home happy no doubt.
mickey
77 Palm beach
anaheim ca.
Here is my gmc song.
six wheels on the ground and we are all leaving town
to an adventure in our GMC
We are filled with gas and were off at last
to an adventure in our GMC
Big windows to see - the world of the free
the front wheel drive with a manny tranny
and all the treasures from jimK and JimB
Six wheels on the road and were free.
Just give me a home in a GMC gone
and try not to hit a tree
For all we are friends that own GMC's
and the black list is there to some degree.
We need new tires and more gas for our fires
and fan clutch that sounds like a train
forget the credit card bills
it is worth it to know the thrill
of the gmc motor home game.
when we see other rigs
they are just to big
for our 10 miles a gallon home lies
Just give me a home with a GMC to roam
that rides like a cloud in the skies
that i love out loud and a computer crowd
yes a computer to get help from the gang
to tell me what to do with some thing
When i get to the rally without a bent fender
i go straight to venders with all credit cards maxed out
with ice cream and grins and few fights on the chin
we all go home happy no doubt.
Just give me a GMC motor home
to see the world and roam
from key to shinning key
for we all love the truth
as we go through a toll booth
that people can't help but see
they wish they had a home like me.
let tornados blow,
and large fires glow
earthquakes and rain from the sea
for i can always escape
with the trouble in my wake
and fly in my GMC.
When i get old and die
i will leave it to someone kind
that loves it and make sure
they do, for all the money
and sweat and tears
we put in the gears
to make it work for you
the future to see
without regret
it is the best you can bet
to roam in the throne
of a GMC motor home
and the adventure of being free.
mickey
77 palm beach
anaheim ca.
On Mar 27, 2013, at 8:19 PM, KB wrote:
> I must also add that your assertions Manny doesn't support the
> community or provide good service are utterly wrong.
>
> Karen
> 1973 23'
> 1975 26'
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Introducing the Manny Brake System [message #202815 is a reply to message #202746] |
Thu, 28 March 2013 04:27 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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I have no dog in the in hunt on this one, but to bad mouth Manny is way out of line.
I have seen Manny show up at a rally and by himself change a trans in the parking lot for a GMCer.
In another case Many drove from a GMCMI rally 3 to 4 hours one way to rescue a rally attendee broken down on the road. After arriving as the break site fixed the trans problem and the GMCer went on to attend the rally.
In my case Manny personally delivered me a rebuilt trans in Indiana. Manny is from San Jose, California.
In another case besides Mickey's, Manny drove from San Jose to the LA area to deliver a rebuilt trans for another GMCer in trouble.
So to try to get us to pick Manny over Jim (who I also consider a friend) or Jim over Manny is way out of line and has no place on this forum.
Both of them will go a long way to help any GMCer.
If there is currently a problem between the two of them, let them work it out. They both are good people and do not deserve this disparagement.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
[Updated on: Thu, 28 March 2013 11:55] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Introducing the Manny Brake System [message #202829 is a reply to message #202815] |
Thu, 28 March 2013 08:28 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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You betcha. I wish none of this came between them and I bet it will be solved. I owe my business to both of these fine people and there is no way I will get involved. Jim-- Manny, go have some beers and find a way to work this out together. Don't care which system that's used, just that all of us along with the community carries on. I didn't even read this thread, does not matter to me-- there is nothing you could say that would make me think anything less of either of them.
Jim Bounds
-----------------------------
________________________________
From: Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2013 5:27 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Introducing the Manny Brake System
I have no dog in the in hunt on this one, but to bad mouth Manny is way out of line.
I have seen Manny show up at a rally and by himself change a trans in the parking log for a GMCer.
In another case Many drove from a GMCMI rally 3 to 4 hours one way to rescue a rally attendee broken down on the road. After arriving as the break site fixed the trans problem and the GMCer went on to attend the rally.
In my case Manny personally delivered me a rebuilt trans in Indiana. Manny is from San Jose, California.
In another case besides Mickey's, Manny drove from San Jose to the LA area to deliver a rebuilt trans for another GMCer in trouble.
So to try to get us to pick Manny over Jim (who I also consider a friend) or Jim over Manny is way out of line and has no place on this forum.
Both of them will go a long way to help any GMCer.
If there is currently a problem between the two of them, let them work it out. They both are good people and do not deserve this disparagement.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Introducing the Manny Brake System [message #202861 is a reply to message #202829] |
Thu, 28 March 2013 13:16 |
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"Fools rush in where angels fear to tread." So, here goes.
I was present and listening in on the information posted previously. I went
away very bothered. I spoke to a friend who is just a bit older than I. The
friend has his own story of being a vendor and having another vendor seek to
"get in on the action" and no significant investment on his part. I came
away from that discussion still with a bothered mind.
There is no doubt that there are many individuals who are a part of the GMC
community who do their part to make a positive contribution. However, that
doesn't give any individual the right to unfairly profit from the work of
another. Too often we tend to think of "theft" as the taking of something
physical that isn't yours. There's also "intellectual theft" when you take
someone else's ideas, research, financial outlay, or investment in time and
turn around with a subtle tweak and resell. It doesn't matter about the
motive. It's still an immoral and unethical move.
From what I've heard about some prominent GMCers, other prominent GMCers
have stolen and been stolen from. I guess it could be written off as "all's
fair in love and war" or some other piece of verbal quackery.
Some of us have heard the definition of integrity; doing right when someone
else isn't watching. What I think is needed for all of us is a bit more
integrity and a dose of good, honest, moral action.
I'm not about to sit in judgment on this issue. I'm sure that this incident,
like divorce, has two sides; yours and shithead's.
What I'm really asking for is that all of use expect better of ourselves and
hold each other accountable.
The GMC community is hurt each time something like this arises and it gets
made public. I'm not sure I see the point of pointing fingers. However, I do
see the real point of trying to say this: We each need to take the extra
steps needed in being sure that the things or ideas we sell are being sold
with the right motives, the right credits, and the right price.
Let me give you a "for instance". I saw one of my graphics on the website of
a certain vendor. I sent an email stating that the graphic was being
displayed as a part of his logo without my permission. The vendor, at my
insistence, removed the graphic. What struck me was that in my email I had
left enough of a hint that he could take steps to get my permission. I
suppose that person didn't want to go to the trouble of doing the descent
thing. You now know my opinion of that guy's integrity.
Now, what is really interesting about that individual was that he got very
upset when someone else took his product, modified it, and brought out a
competing product. You can imagine what happened -- tempers flared.
Morals of the story are these. (1) We humans get upset when someone takes
from us. (2) We tend to overlook the times we take from someone else. Now I
ask you this: Who has the right to get angry and badmouth the other guy? If
you don't know the answer please write off-net and I'll give you more clues.
There's enough blame to go around. Is there not enough integrity?
Byron Songer
Louisville, KY
Get Gary Bovee's excellent Internet Idiot's Guide for the GMC MotorHome for
your iPad at the following URL --
https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/internet-idiots-guide-for/id623353780?ls=1
Jim Bounds wrote:
> You betcha. I wish none of this came between them and I bet it will be
> solved. I owe my business to both of these fine people and there is no way I
> will get involved. Jim-- Manny, go have some beers and find a way to work
> this out together. Don't care which system that's used, just that all of us
> along with the community carries on. I didn't even read this thread, does not
> matter to me-- there is nothing you could say that would make me think
> anything less of either of them.
>
> Jim Bounds
> -----------------------------
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net>
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2013 5:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Introducing the Manny Brake System
>
>
>
> I have no dog in the in hunt on this one, but to bad mouth Manny is way out of
> line.
>
> I have seen Manny show up at a rally and by himself change a trans in the
> parking log for a GMCer.
>
> In another case Many drove from a GMCMI rally 3 to 4 hours one way to rescue a
> rally attendee broken down on the road. After arriving as the break site
> fixed the trans problem and the GMCer went on to attend the rally.
>
> In my case Manny personally delivered me a rebuilt trans in Indiana. Manny is
> from San Jose, California.
>
> In another case besides Mickey's, Manny drove from San Jose to the LA area to
> deliver a rebuilt trans for another GMCer in trouble.
>
> So to try to get us to pick Manny over Jim (who I also consider a friend) or
> Jim over Manny is way out of line and has no place on this forum.
>
> Both of them will go a long way to help any GMCer.
>
> If there is currently a problem between the two of them, let them work it
> out. They both are good people and do not deserve this disparagement.
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--
Byron Songer
Full-timing to enjoy the USA
Former owner but still an admirer
GMC paint schemes at -
http://www.songerconsulting.net
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| Re: [GMCnet] Introducing the Manny Brake System [message #202946 is a reply to message #202878] |
Fri, 29 March 2013 10:29 |
Kingsley Coach
Messages: 2691
Registered: March 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Karma: -34
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Senior Member |
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Mr Pryor
You are out of line..and anyone who wants to speak of intellectual
"rights", go soak your head..
There are no new ideas guys, just re-worked older ones....see Genes posting!
If there wasn't so much difference between the prices, this would never be
an issue. And why is there so much difference?
Mike currently in NC
On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 4:39 PM, gene Fisher <mr.erfisher@gmail.com> wrote:
> > There's also "intellectual theft" when you take
> > someone else's ideas, research, financial outlay, or investment in time
> and
> > turn around with a subtle tweak and resell. It doesn't matter about the
> > motive. It's still an immoral and unethical move.
> >
>
> strange, since they all came from here
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5538-reaction-brake-norm.html
> published and prototyped, 2 years before any others
>
> gene
>
>
>
> --
> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> -------
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/
> Alternator Protection Cable
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
> _______________________________________________
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>
--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
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| Re: [GMCnet] Introducing the Manny Brake System [message #202967 is a reply to message #202949] |
Fri, 29 March 2013 16:02 |
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Kerry,
I deeply regret the position (attitude) that you've taken with this post.
You imply that Tom was spineless in his action. I don't believe such was the
case. However, I will raise the point that, perhaps, Tom acted in haste
before investigating further. I do believe he's aware of that now.
I also think your understanding of Public Domain is quite different from
those of us that deal with copyright or patent on a regular basis.
My first experience with something of this nature was watching my dad, and
the company he worked for, work their way through the legal entanglement to
protect their patent on what we commonly call the spin-on oil filter. 55
years ago the concept was new, patent applied for and received, and contract
put in place with Ford only to have the company "infringe". The courts did
see it another way and a small company won against the large corporate
power.
Protecting intellectual rights is the American way. It's the law-abiding,
truly patriotic, American way just as building product and selling it at a
competitive price is the American way.
Please note, however, that I'm not taking sides in this conflict, if it is
one. I'm merely pointing out one of the principles we need to abide by --
respect for the work of others and treating each other more respectfully.
We don't need another war on here. Enough have existed and driven others
from this list/forum because of the foolishness and egos of a handful of
overly enthusiastic members. Let's get on a higher road.
Byron
Kerry Pinkerton wrote:
>
>
> I've been debating posting in this unfortunate thread and was not but as Byron
> said "...fools rush in"...I guess I qualify too.
>
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--
Byron Songer
Full-timing to enjoy the USA
Former owner but still an admirer
GMC paint schemes at -
http://www.songerconsulting.net
[Updated on: Sat, 30 March 2013 16:38] Report message to a moderator |
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