Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Is there any way to use a 4 post lift to remove the entire Toronado setup?
| Is there any way to use a 4 post lift to remove the entire Toronado setup? [message #202663] |
Tue, 26 March 2013 13:30  |
Ultravan Owners
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Registered: March 2013
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Hello everyone,
Someone, close to Terre Haute, IN, has been kind enough to lend me there shop, tools, and lift; so I can remove the power plant from UV520.
Removing all that extra weight from the rear of the coach should help make is easier to tow home.
I should have much better tongue weight for towing, once the heavy power plant is out of the back of UV520.
However, his lift is a four post lift and I need to figure out a way to lift the body, or support the body away from the lift, when lowering the lift.
I want to be able to roll the Toronado frame and power plant out from underneath the coach.
I’ll also have to pay to have UV520 towed 60 miles to his place. But the good news is I can work longer hours inside and have no concerns about the weather.
And the 60 miles are in the right direction too, putting me even closer to Kalamazoo for the convention and then home.
My concerns:
(A) Is it worth moving UV520 to his shop? (It might cost a couple hundred dollars - but then again to be able to work indoors = what a treat.)
(B) Can I use a 4 post lift to remove the entire Toronado frame, suspension and power plant? Any ideas on how this can be done?
(C) Or would I be better off doing it on the ground, fighting what weather may come, and simply rolling the frame out?
I could use your input. Please let’s put our heads together and see what we can come up with!
Many thanks for your help and support!
Sincerely, Tony
BTW - Here is a link to pictures, on GMCPhotos, of the kind of lift I will be able to use..
Tony (Ontario Canada)
Marie and I are blessed to have had a 2nd chance to buy our farm.
Still hoping and more importantly praying to be able to build a garage.
Our 1970 Ultravan #520 has an Olds Toronado 455 in back.
[Updated on: Tue, 26 March 2013 13:33] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Is there any way to use a 4 post lift to remove the entire Toronado setup? [message #202666 is a reply to message #202663] |
Tue, 26 March 2013 15:34  |
chasingsummer
Messages: 434
Registered: May 2011
Location: asheboro, nc
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I am a cheep person, but if choice is inside out of weather, where mind, hands and etc work better, versus outside in cold. I choose inside. I would expect once on lift and up in the air a little I bet things would appear clearer. If this is a gmcers garage, I bet his 2 cents worth once in the air where problem can be seen, would be worth what you mentioned as a tow bill.
Who ever built this garage, I bet he knows how to use it,
brian
asheboro, nc
75 eleganza, 74 build
119k miles and counting,
DOG HOUSE
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| Re: Is there any way to use a 4 post lift to remove the entire Toronado setup? [message #202693 is a reply to message #202663] |
Tue, 26 March 2013 21:34 |
Craig Lechowicz
Messages: 541
Registered: October 2006
Location: Waterford, MI
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I don't know enough about how Ultravan frames and bodies (and the grafted on Olds stuff) is put together to have a very good answer. But I do own a Fiero and have stayed at a Holiday Inn.
Fiero's probably have the highest % of swapped engines of any car ever made, and they are all located in the back. Unibody car with a c-channel subframe or cradle with all the powertrain on it. Faces east/west rather than north/south, but not an important distinction to the task at hand.
Most Fiero swaps are done by dropping the subframe out the bottom. Usually tall jackstands under the front end, and a stout 4x4 supported by two floor jacks across the rear, just in front of the subframe. I haven't done mine, but presumably the rear is jacked up (and blocked securely) to disconnect wires, lines, linkages etc. then lowered as far as possible while still leaving enough room to get the cradle bolts out. In that lowering process, the cradle/powertrain is securely supported, ideally on something with wheels. Cradle bolts removed, car jacked up by 4x4 as high as possible, and cradle/powertrain rolled off into the sunset.
A similar process might work for you. Although that beautiful lift has 4 posts, it's really a drive on lift which makes it a little trickier. You really don't want the rear wheels on the lift. Some of them have a cross beam with jacks on it for doing front end work that might be able to be re-located to the rear to support the body main frame separate from the powertrain subframe. If not, I'm guessing an Ultravan will take more than a 4x4 across the lift. Steel I beam would be good, a couple of 6x6'es might work. The rear cross beam on the lift may be in the way of what you are trying to do, but there is probably some latitude to where the vehicle is located on the lift.
I'm kind of agreeing with some of the other comments though. Anyone with that nice of a setup is probably way smarter than me at figuring out how to best use it.
Craig Lechowicz
'77 Kingsley, Waterford, MI
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| Re: Is there any way to use a 4 post lift to remove the entire Toronado setup? [message #202698 is a reply to message #202663] |
Tue, 26 March 2013 21:58 |
Craig Lechowicz
Messages: 541
Registered: October 2006
Location: Waterford, MI
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I should have mentioned, if the lift has the cross beam in front, depending on lift and building ceiling clearance, you could just load the vehicle on it backwards. Speaking of which, you could also load the Ultravan on your trailer backwards to adjust tongue weight as well. Seems like a lot of work to take out and put the powertrain in just to move it. I have no idea how much Ultravans weigh, but GMC's are in the neighborhood of 10 or 11000 lbs. Just guessing, I'd figure 600 lbs. for an engine 350 or so for a trans and final drive and 500-800 lbs. for the subframe and other stuff, so at the high end, maybe 1800 lbs. I know I had the whole thing hanging from the end of my China made cherry picker when I loaded the front clip I bought 2 years ago into a trailer. It was definitely heavy, but probably in that ballpark (There was an old thread on here where someone had actual weights for a lot of that stuff). So, maybe a 17% weight loss for a GMC, and all that stuff is still going with you somehow. If 10% of that 1800 lbs was tongue weight, it would be a difference of 180 lbs. I still dream of the days when I only weighed 180 lbs.
Part of me worries that even after you take all that stuff out, you're not starting out with enough trailer and tow vehicle to be safe, and might want to think about U-ship or something. I've never seen a trailer accident that ended well. Too many different vehicles involved even if it is a "single car" accident.
Craig Lechowicz
'77 Kingsley, Waterford, MI
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| Re: [GMCnet] Is there any way to use a 4 post lift to remove the entireToronado setup? [message #202701 is a reply to message #202663] |
Tue, 26 March 2013 23:52 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Hello Tony,
I'm confused!
I do not understand why you're asking questions that relate to an Ultra Van on a forum dedicated to the 1973-1978 GMC Motorhome.
I would suggest you Google Ultra Van to see if there is a forum like this for that vehicle.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Tony
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 1:31 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] Is there any way to use a 4 post lift to remove the entireToronado setup?
Hello everyone,
Someone, close to Terre Haute, IN, has been kind enough to lend me there shop, tools, and lift; so I can remove the power plant from
UV520.
Removing all that extra weight from the rear of the coach should help make is easier to tow home. I should have much better tongue
weight for towing, once the heavy power plant is out of the back of UV520.
However, his lift is a four post lift and I need to figure out a way to lift the body, or support the body away from the lift, when
lowering the lift. I want to be able to roll the Toronado frame and power plant out from underneath the coach.
I’ll also have to pay to have UV520 towed 60 miles to his place. But the good news is I can work longer hours inside and have
no concerns about the weather. And the 60 miles are in the right direction too, putting me even closer to Kalamazoo for the
convention and then home.
My concerns:
(A) Is it worth moving UV520 to his shop?
(B) Can I use a 4 post lift to remove the entire Toronado frame, suspension and power plant? Any ideas on how this can be done?
(C) Or would I be better off doing it on the ground, fighting what weather may come, and simply rolling the frame out?
I could use your input. Please let’s put our heads together and see what we can come up with!
Many thanks for your help and support!
Sincerely, Tony
BTW - http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/lift/p19935.html.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Is there any way to use a 4 post lift to remove the entireToronado setup? [message #202712 is a reply to message #202701] |
Wed, 27 March 2013 09:56 |
Ultravan Owners
Messages: 443
Registered: March 2013
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Wed, 27 March 2013 00:52 |
Hello Tony,
I'm confused!
I do not understand why you're asking questions that relate to an Ultra Van on a forum dedicated to the 1973-1978 GMC Motorhome.
I would suggest you Google Ultra Van to see if there is a forum like this for that vehicle.
Regards,
Rob M.
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Hello Rob,
The reason I'm here is because the GMC has the "FWD Toronado" power plant and so does this Ultravan.
The normal way to R&R a power plant from the GMC and most vehicles with a mid/rear engine is to drop the entire cradle - frame, with: engine, transmission, and suspension as one.
However, not on a 4 post lift, like I have available to me.
Just because it is an Ultravan, it still has the “FWD Toronado” drive-train in a MH.
If this Toronado setup was in a street rod, or even a Corvair like some have done; I would more than likely be sending my time on an Oldsmobile Site rather than here on the GMC.
Because it is Car to Car conversion with the same “Toronado” setup in both…
I’m a member of the Ultravan club.
In an Ultravan itself we only have a few Toronado conversions and nowhere near the number that the GMC has.
The owner of the only Toronado Ultravan that is on the road does not have enough knowledge to be of much help.
So I’m here where the number of MH coaches with a FWD Toronado is much larger.
Also those with knowledge of how to R&R this kind of engines, transmission and/or those who have worked on the torsion bar suspension
(which I’ve never done before, even as a mechanic) are much greater here than those in the UV club.
Why do people leave their own state to go to another college many miles away from home?
To gain a wealth of knowledge, from the best place, in the field they want to be in.
Even as a retired mechanic; I don’t claim to know it all.
Two heads are better than one.
There is a wealth of knowledge, along with helpful and kind people, on this site. (I can use all the help I can get.) That is why I’m here.
Sincerely, Tony
Tony (Ontario Canada)
Marie and I are blessed to have had a 2nd chance to buy our farm.
Still hoping and more importantly praying to be able to build a garage.
Our 1970 Ultravan #520 has an Olds Toronado 455 in back.
[Updated on: Wed, 27 March 2013 09:59] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Is there any way to use a 4 post lift to remove the entireToronado setup? [message #202714 is a reply to message #202701] |
Wed, 27 March 2013 10:17 |
hertfordnc
Messages: 1164
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Location: East NC
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Tue, 26 March 2013 23:52 |
Hello Tony,
I'm confused!
I do not understand why you're asking questions that relate to an Ultra Van on a forum dedicated to the 1973-1978 GMC Motorhome.
I would suggest you Google Ultra Van to see if there is a forum like this for that vehicle.
Regards,
Rob M.
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Tony, you've managed to confuse Rob, which is hard becasue he's a very smart guy.
Perhaps it's part of an elaborate Joke that will culminate on April Fools Day?
Clearly the UltraVan makes better use of the Toro drive train by putting it in the back......
We definately should spend more time dicussing the Ultra Van as well as Revcons and the Clark Cortez.....
Dave & Ellen Silva
Hertford, NC
76 Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff
Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021
It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Is there any way to use a 4 post lift to remove the entireToronado setup? [message #202715 is a reply to message #202712] |
Wed, 27 March 2013 10:25 |
John Sharpe
Messages: 489
Registered: February 2006
Location: Texas
Karma: 1
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| Quote: |
re: removing the drivetrain from an Ultravan using a 4 post lift
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Tony, I don't know exactly what your engine cradle is. I assume it is rear engine rear drive. If your goal is to remove the engine/transmission, seams like it would be simplest to have an a-frame inside the coach and drop the engine/transmission/finaldrive as a unit. On our coaches, there is enough clearance to maneuver the assembly or remove them separately. Then just pickup the coach with the parts on the floor. I guess if the center of gravity would allow you could hang the coach off the end of the lift, remove the cradle and lift the coach. It would be your call. I mention these possibilities for entertainment purposes only.
John Sharpe
Humble,TX
'78 Eleganza TBI
'89 Spectrum 2000 MPI V-10
'40 Ford Panel Delivery TPI
johnasharpe@gmail.com
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| Re: Is there any way to use a 4 post lift to remove the entire Toronado setup? [message #202717 is a reply to message #202663] |
Wed, 27 March 2013 10:54 |
Ultravan Owners
Messages: 443
Registered: March 2013
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FYI – Ultravans are light. They do not have a chassis.
The only thing between the back of the front tires and in front of the back tires are tanks; 3 with LM and 4 EM Ultravans.
The tanks run across the coach from side to side. Then the floor is places on top of the tanks.
When I first got it back on the road; one of our Corvair Ultravans weighed in at 3,620lbs with only 5 gals of gas and a whopping 4,050 with a full tank of water and gas along with a spare tire.
This Toronado Ultravan should weigh somewhere between 4,500 to just over 5,000lbs.
However, the only frame it has is the front frame/cradle used in the Olds Toronado vehicle.
The frame/cradle was adapted to fit in the rear of the Ultravan and uses everything from the 68-72 Olds Toronado.
Options brought forth so far:
1) Place the entire coach on the 4 post lift and unbolt the cradle. Then raise the coach with the lift to be able to build two towers, one in the front and one in the back. Both will be centered between the lift. The kind of thing used when lifting a house to move it. Then lower the lift so that the coach rest on the towers in the middle of the lift. Then lower the lift all the way down (B) to be able to pull the frame out from under the coach. (C) Once you have full access to the power plant you can use an engine hoist to lift it out and place it in the back of the truck. (D) Put the frame back to use the suspension to tow the coach home.
2) Someone was wondering if you could place the rear wheels just off the back of the lift. Jack up the coach from the back, using the frame, and support the coach with a long 6by6 running across the lift and use some wooden block, on each rail of the lift just in front of the frame to be removed, to rest that 6by6 on across the lift and under the coach. Once you unbolt the cradle you lift the coach and the long 6by6 makes contact with the coach, before the lift does, to support the coach without the rear suspension. Then repeat step (B) thru (D) above.
Tony (Ontario Canada)
Marie and I are blessed to have had a 2nd chance to buy our farm.
Still hoping and more importantly praying to be able to build a garage.
Our 1970 Ultravan #520 has an Olds Toronado 455 in back.
[Updated on: Wed, 27 March 2013 11:00] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Is there any way to use a 4 post lift to remove the entireToronado setup? [message #202719 is a reply to message #202715] |
Wed, 27 March 2013 11:12 |
Ultravan Owners
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Registered: March 2013
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Hi John,
I will try my best to reply to your questions within your post.
| John Sharpe wrote on Wed, 27 March 2013 11:25 |
| Quote: |
re: removing the drivetrain from an Ultravan using a 4 post lift
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Tony, I don't know exactly what your engine cradle is. I assume it is rear engine rear drive.
The cradle is the entire front frame, or sub-frame used in an Olds Toronado vehicle. It was adapted to fit the back of the Ultravan.
If your goal is to remove the engine/transmission, seams like it would be simplest to have an a-frame inside the coach and drop the engine/transmission/finaldrive as a unit.
There is no real support to try to lift the engine from insdie the coach.
On our coaches, there is enough clearance to maneuver the assembly or remove them separately. Then just pickup the coach with the parts on the floor.
With the engine being in the back of the coach and the door in the front; there is no room to move it from the back to the front to get it out the door.
I guess if the center of gravity would allow you could hang the coach off the end of the lift, remove the cradle and lift the coach.
That was one option from a GMC owner and I talked about it in my post above. It was option number 2.
It would be your call. I mention these possibilities for entertainment purposes only.
|
Tony (Ontario Canada)
Marie and I are blessed to have had a 2nd chance to buy our farm.
Still hoping and more importantly praying to be able to build a garage.
Our 1970 Ultravan #520 has an Olds Toronado 455 in back.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Is there any way to use a 4 post lift to remove the entireToronado setup? [message #202723 is a reply to message #202714] |
Wed, 27 March 2013 11:49 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186
Registered: January 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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| hertfordnc wrote on Wed, 27 March 2013 08:17 |
| Robert Mueller wrote on Tue, 26 March 2013 23:52 |
Hello Tony,
I'm confused!
I do not understand why you're asking questions that relate to an Ultra Van on a forum dedicated to the 1973-1978 GMC Motorhome.
I would suggest you Google Ultra Van to see if there is a forum like this for that vehicle.
Regards,
Rob M.
|
Tony, you've managed to confuse Rob, which is hard becasue he's a very smart guy.
Perhaps it's part of an elaborate Joke that will culminate on April Fools Day?
Clearly the UltraVan makes better use of the Toro drive train by putting it in the back......
We definately should spend more time dicussing the Ultra Van as well as Revcons and the Clark Cortez.....
|
Booooo!!! 
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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| Re: [GMCnet] Is there any way to use a 4 post lift to remove theentireToronado setup? [message #202748 is a reply to message #202712] |
Wed, 27 March 2013 15:05 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Tony,
Here's a link to the GMC Motorhome manual:
http://www.bdub.net/manuals/X7525/X7525.pdf
See section 6A Engine; Page 6A-27, Figure 5 which shows the "normal" engine removal method as per GMC.
Here's a link to the GMC Motorhome parts manual:
http://www.bdub.net/manuals/parts/index.html
See section 11 Frame which shows that the GMC does not have a "cradle" that "drops out."
Here's a link to some photographs showing the front frame, engine, transmission and final drive in the front frame:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/front-clip-reassembly/p46926-front-clip-reassembly-engine-trans-fd-041-medium.html
I trust this information will help you figger out how to drop a 455 Olds engine, trans, and final drive out of an Ultravan.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony
Hello Rob,
The reason I'm here is because the GMC has the "FWD Toronado" power plant and so does this Ultravan.
The normal way to R&R a power plant from the GMC and most vehicles with a mid/rear engine is to drop the entire cradle - frame,
with: engine, transmission, and suspension as one. However, not on a 4 post lift, like I have available to me.
Just because it is an Ultravan, it still has the “FWD Toronado” drive-train in a MH.
If this Toronado setup was in a street rod, or even a Corvair like some have done; I would more than likely be sending my time on an
Oldsmobile Site rather than here on the GMC. Because it is Car to Car conversion with the same “Toronado” setup in
both…
I’m a member of the Ultravan club.
In an Ultravan itself we only have a few Toronado conversions and nowhere near the number that the GMC has.
The owner of the only Toronado Ultravan that is on the road does not have enough knowledge to be of much help.
So I’m here where the number of MH coaches with a FWD Toronado is much larger.
Also those with knowledge of how to R&R this kind of engines, transmission and/or those who have worked on the torsion bar
suspension (which I’ve never done before, even as a mechanic) are much greater than those in the UV club.
Why do people leave their own state to go to another college many miles away from home?
To gain a wealth of knowledge, from the best place, in the field they want to be in.
Even as a retired mechanic; I don’t claim to know it all.
Two heads are better than one.
There is a wealth of knowledge, along with helpful and kind people, on this site. (I can use all the help I can get.) That is why
I’m here.
Sincerely, Tony
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Is there any way to use a 4 post lift to remove the entireToronado setup? [message #202800 is a reply to message #202712] |
Wed, 27 March 2013 21:54 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Tony,
It's been pretty busy here at the GMC Motorhomes International Convention,
so I may not have absorbed all of your requirements. But this comment
intrigues me: "The normal way to R&R a power plant from the GMC and most
vehicles with a mid/rear engine is to drop the entire cradle - frame, with:
engine, transmission, and suspension as one."
I would definitely not say that's the "normal way" to R&R the GMCMH power
plant. It has been done by many, including me, but not in the way you seem
to anticipate. The front "clip" (frame with suspension, radiator, engine,
transmission, and final drive) cannot be dropped down. The front frame
slides into the side rails of the chassis, so that the ONLY way to remove
it intact is to slide it forward. Usually, the front wheels (often without
tires) are set on wooden "rails", the 6 bolts which attach the front and
side rails on each side are removed and the front "clip" rolled forward,
out from under the coach. That's an over-simplification, of course, since
the grille and the body panel beneath it, the lower steering column, and
various plumbing and electrical connections must be removed first.
Once the front clip is out from under the body, you have a complete
powertrain, literally, which can, in fact, be run (statically) as-is.
Since I think your intention is to then tow what's left of the GMCMH, this
doesn't seem like a viable option for you. Better would be to mount the
gantry, shown in the GMCMH service manual, in the cockpit and lower the
engine+transmission+final drive out the bottom as a unit. That you CAN do
on the 4-post lift. Then, with the stub axles you've solicited, you can
make the front suspension "towable" (albeit rather elevated).
HTH,
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Tony wrote:
>
> ...
> The reason I'm here is because the GMC has the "FWD Toronado" power plant
> and so does this Ultravan.
>
> The normal way to R&R a power plant from the GMC and most vehicles with a
> mid/rear engine is to drop the entire cradle - frame, with: engine,
> transmission, and suspension as one.
> However, not on a 4 post lift, like I have available to me.
> ...
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www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Is there any way to use a 4 post lift to remove the entireToronado setup? [message #202807 is a reply to message #202800] |
Wed, 27 March 2013 23:48 |
Ultravan Owners
Messages: 443
Registered: March 2013
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| Ken Henderson wrote on Wed, 27 March 2013 22:54 |
Tony,
It's been pretty busy here at the GMC Motorhomes International Convention,
so I may not have absorbed all of your requirements. But this comment
intrigues me: "The normal way to R&R a power plant from the GMC and most
vehicles with a mid/rear engine is to drop the entire cradle - frame, with:
engine, transmission, and suspension as one."
I would definitely not say that's the "normal way" to R&R the GMCMH power
plant. It has been done by many, including me, but not in the way you seem
to anticipate. The front "clip" (frame with suspension, radiator, engine,
transmission, and final drive) cannot be dropped down. The front frame
slides into the side rails of the chassis, so that the ONLY way to remove
it intact is to slide it forward. Usually, the front wheels (often without
tires) are set on wooden "rails", the 6 bolts which attach the front and
side rails on each side are removed and the front "clip" rolled forward,
out from under the coach. That's an over-simplification, of course, since
the grille and the body panel beneath it, the lower steering column, and
various plumbing and electrical connections must be removed first.
Once the front clip is out from under the body, you have a complete
powertrain, literally, which can, in fact, be run (statically) as-is.
Since I think your intention is to then tow what's left of the GMCMH, this
doesn't seem like a viable option for you. Better would be to mount the
gantry, shown in the GMCMH service manual, in the cockpit and lower the
engine+transmission+final drive out the bottom as a unit. That you CAN do
on the 4-post lift. Then, with the stub axles you've solicited, you can
make the front suspension "towable" (albeit rather elevated).
HTH,
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
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Hi Ken, Thanks for your input.
I don't want to sound mean or come across rude.
Please forgive me if I do or if you take it that way.
I'm a see spot run kind of a person.
My grammar and spelling stink.
I don't always use the correct wording.
I get in a hurry. Plus I'm a poor speller anyways.
I type what I know how to spell, rather than stop to look up a better word or use spell check for every word.
If I did that I lose my train of thought.
I might say drop when pull might be a better word.
But in the end it (the cradle, sub-frame and/or power plant) still comes out from the bottom or should I have said underneath of the vehicle. ggg
I might use cradle when I should have said "sub-frame".
To me it is the same.
It is a cradle or frame that supports the entire power plant; which in my mind or way of thinking is the engine, transmission and final-drive as one complete unit.
BTW - Just so you know; I'm not working on a GMC MH.
I can not pull or lower the engine from inside our coach.
It is not built like a GMC. It is not strong enough in that area to place a lifting device.
IMHO it is quicker to remove, drop or pull the frame, cradle, or sub-frame; when one wants to R&R the entire power plant like the Toronado over an R&R of just the engine.
In my case I like to remove all the extra weight from the rear of the coach to make me feel safer towing it home. I’m also hope I can drive closer to highway speeds without the extra weight in the back causing the coach, me, and the truck I’m towing with, to bounce around.
Thank you and everyone else; for your time and help with my problem!
Sincerely, Tony
Tony (Ontario Canada)
Marie and I are blessed to have had a 2nd chance to buy our farm.
Still hoping and more importantly praying to be able to build a garage.
Our 1970 Ultravan #520 has an Olds Toronado 455 in back.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Is there any way to use a 4 post lift to remove the entireToronado setup? [message #202810 is a reply to message #202807] |
Wed, 27 March 2013 23:56 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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OH! So it's an Ultravan you want to tow engineless! My misunderstanding!
Oh well, now maybe you know a little more about the GMCMH. :-) Or someone
else, new to the breed, does.
I'll butt out now.
Ken H.
On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 12:48 AM, Tony wrote:
> ...
> BTW - Just so you know; I'm not working on a GMC MH.
>
> I can not pull or lower the engine from inside our coach.
> It is not built like a GMC. It is not strong enough in that area to place
> a lifting device.
>
> IMHO it is quicker to remove, drop or pull the frame, cradle, or
> sub-frame; when one wants to R&R the entire power plant like the Toronado
> over an R&R of just the engine.
>
> In my case I like to remove all the extra weight from the rear of the
> coach to make me feel safer towing it home. I’m also hope I can drive
> closer to highway speeds without the extra weight in the back causing the
> coach, me, and the truck I’m towing with, to bounce around.
...
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Is there any way to use a 4 post lift to remove the entireToronado setup? [message #202811 is a reply to message #202807] |
Thu, 28 March 2013 00:05 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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Fwiw you can drop the whole front clip with the motor/trans/final drive and cooling but in order to do so the stirrup body to frame mounts just rear of the cock pit need to be removed and the first x member un bolted in order to spread the parallel c channel frame rails far enough apart to disengage the front clip. This allows you to avoid body interference from the steering box hump in the frame while trying to pull/ lower the assembly simultaneously.
Sully
77 royale
Seattle
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 27, 2013, at 9:48 PM, Tony <Ultravanman248@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Ken Henderson wrote on Wed, 27 March 2013 22:54
>> Tony,
>>
>> It's been pretty busy here at the GMC Motorhomes International Convention,
>> so I may not have absorbed all of your requirements. But this comment
>> intrigues me: "The normal way to R&R a power plant from the GMC and most
>> vehicles with a mid/rear engine is to drop the entire cradle - frame, with:
>> engine, transmission, and suspension as one."
>>
>> I would definitely not say that's the "normal way" to R&R the GMCMH power
>> plant. It has been done by many, including me, but not in the way you seem
>> to anticipate. The front "clip" (frame with suspension, radiator, engine,
>> transmission, and final drive) cannot be dropped down. The front frame
>> slides into the side rails of the chassis, so that the ONLY way to remove
>> it intact is to slide it forward. Usually, the front wheels (often without
>> tires) are set on wooden "rails", the 6 bolts which attach the front and
>> side rails on each side are removed and the front "clip" rolled forward,
>> out from under the coach. That's an over-simplification, of course, since
>> the grille and the body panel beneath it, the lower steering column, and
>> various plumbing and electrical connections must be removed first.
>>
>> Once the front clip is out from under the body, you have a complete
>> powertrain, literally, which can, in fact, be run (statically) as-is.
>>
>> Since I think your intention is to then tow what's left of the GMCMH, this
>> doesn't seem like a viable option for you. Better would be to mount the
>> gantry, shown in the GMCMH service manual, in the cockpit and lower the
>> engine+transmission+final drive out the bottom as a unit. That you CAN do
>> on the 4-post lift. Then, with the stub axles you've solicited, you can
>> make the front suspension "towable" (albeit rather elevated).
>>
>> HTH,
>>
>> Ken H.
>> Americus, GA
>> '76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
>> www.gmcwipersetc.com
>
>
> Hi Ken, Thanks for your input.
>
> I don't want to sound mean or come across rude.
> Please forgive me if I do or if you take it that way.
> I'm a see spot run kind of a person.
> My grammar and spelling stink.
>
> I don't always use the correct wording.
> I get in a hurry. Plus I'm a poor speller anyways.
> I type what I know how to spell, rather than stop to look up a better word or use spell check for every word.
> If I did that I lose my train of thought.
>
> I might say drop when pull might be a better word.
> But in the end it (the cradle, sub-frame and/or power plant) still comes out from the bottom or should I have said underneath of the vehicle. ggg
>
> I might use cradle when I should have said "sub-frame".
> To me it is the same.
> It is a cradle or frame that supports the entire power plant; which in my mind or way of thinking is the engine, transmission and final-drive as one complete unit.
>
> BTW - Just so you know; I'm not working on a GMC MH.
>
> I can not pull or lower the engine from inside our coach.
> It is not built like a GMC. It is not strong enough in that area to place a lifting device.
>
> IMHO it is quicker to remove, drop or pull the frame, cradle, or sub-frame; when one wants to R&R the entire power plant like the Toronado over an R&R of just the engine.
>
> In my case I like to remove all the extra weight from the rear of the coach to make me feel safer towing it home. I’m also hope I can drive closer to highway speeds without the extra weight in the back causing the coach, me, and the truck I’m towing with, to bounce around.
>
>
>
> Thank you and everyone else; for your time and help with my problem!
> Sincerely, Tony
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: Is there any way to use a 4 post lift to remove the entire Toronado setup? [message #202831 is a reply to message #202816] |
Thu, 28 March 2013 08:49 |
Ultravan Owners
Messages: 443
Registered: March 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Hi Ken,
I'll reply in your post.
| Ken Burton wrote on Thu, 28 March 2013 05:32 |
I would talk to the owner of the 4 post lift. He probably knows more about how to use it then we do.
He and I talked about it and he is the one who suggested I also ask others. He also apporoved my post at the top of this thread - before I did it.
If this coach is only 5000 pounds, why not tow it with the engine installed. I tow way more than that with both my Colorado and my Blazer.
I do plan to try towing UV520 60 miles to someone's shop. 
I just want to have a Plan "B". 
I was uncomfortable when I towed an Ultravan with only a light Corvair power plant in the back.
When the front of the truck went over bumps, at highway speeds, and the UV right after; I felt like I was on the ocean riding waves.
I did not like how the entire setup was tracking.
The tow vehicle (my F150) would act like the front end was bouncing around trying to find its path/direction.
I'm also sure it is going to be much worse with the extra weight from the Toronado Power plant in the back of the coach.
However, I'll know for sure once I have tested towing UV520 the first 60 miles.
There are also two other reasons why I might go to the trouble of removing the power plant:
(1) The coach has sat for 10 to 15 years and I don't have the time or tools to rebuild, or repack, the FWD hubs.
If I lighten the load it should help ensure I make the 8oo miles home without any problems; even if the bearings are a little dry.
(2) I was not able to make turns, left or right, while driving in town when I was testing out the tow-bar I had someone make just to haul Ultravans.
And that was only with the weight of a much lighter Corvair power plant in the back.
The front wheels would not track with the tow vehicle.
The front tires had to be dragged through the turns - while driving in town.
My guess would be that it is going to be much worse with the BIG FWD Toronado in the back.
|
Tony (Ontario Canada)
Marie and I are blessed to have had a 2nd chance to buy our farm.
Still hoping and more importantly praying to be able to build a garage.
Our 1970 Ultravan #520 has an Olds Toronado 455 in back.
[Updated on: Thu, 28 March 2013 08:50] Report message to a moderator |
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