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| suburban furnace [message #200506] |
Sun, 03 March 2013 16:49  |
skip2
Messages: 544
Registered: September 2011
Location: Winter Haven,FL (center o...
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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The PO of my GMC had removed the built in Suburban furnace, and the spot where it goes and the hoses and outside vents, and tstat are still in place. Is there any known issues or problems with the orignal nt323g(according to GMCI parts guide) funace or is there a known good replacement. Tried drydocking this weekend with some of the coldest weather so far this year and wish I had it. Does anyone have suggestions or one they would like to part with for a reasonable amount or would like to get it out of their way.
Thanks
Skip Hartline
74 Canyon Lands, FiTech,
3.7 FD LSD, Manny Tranny,
Springfield Distributor,
2001 Chevy Tracker Ragtop Towd
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| Re: [GMCnet] suburban furnace [message #200512 is a reply to message #200511] |
Sun, 03 March 2013 18:03  |
skip2
Messages: 544
Registered: September 2011
Location: Winter Haven,FL (center o...
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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The center of Florida, we normally use a little space heater but no AC and generator wasn't an option. I just remembered how good the one worked in the SOB I use to have.
Skip
74 Canyon Lands, FiTech,
3.7 FD LSD, Manny Tranny,
Springfield Distributor,
2001 Chevy Tracker Ragtop Towd
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| Re: [GMCnet] suburban furnace [message #200526 is a reply to message #200520] |
Sun, 03 March 2013 20:33 |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Skip
You might want to look at the Excalibur model at PPL. Has exterior door
for servicing, and could be stood up vertically to save on space.
http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-furnaces/lp-gas-furnace-heater.htm
On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 5:48 PM, gene Fisher <mr.erfisher@gmail.com> wrote:
> here is some poop
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/heat.html#solaire
>
> gene
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 4:03 PM, Skip Hartline <skiphartline@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > The center of Florida, we normally use a little space heater but no AC
> and
> > generator wasn't an option. I just remembered how good the one worked in
> > the SOB I use to have.
> > Skip
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> -------
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/
> Alternator Protection Cable
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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> GMCnet mailing list
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--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
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Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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| Re: suburban furnace [message #200590 is a reply to message #200506] |
Mon, 04 March 2013 13:51 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Skip:
Living in what most would call, Northern Canada, (Edmonton is one of the most Northerly Large Cities), I can tell you that a furnace is the best way to go. I mostly go to Banff, Jasper and the other Canadian National Parks because we are only a few hours away) Most nights are cold enough to fire up the furnace just a bit before going to bed and a bit on waking. (That is all that is real necessary)
On the many trips I've made south of here( as far as Texas) I was surprised at the amount of times I've had to give a little heat for evening and morning comfort.
I almost never get sites that have electricity and I refuse to run the generator because they bother neighbours, so I have to be independent. A furnace uses a lot of power to keep the fans running, therefore I do not keep it on all night (I like being away from the crowds). We keep nice and warm because we keep warm bedding, and my Bride and I cuddle a lot!!!
What surprised me the most was when I went to the Amana Rally in the Fall. ( I was the Stranger in the tent). It froze a couple of nights, blew the tent over, and it was pretty cool most nights, and there were more than I would have expected who had no furnace and of course they complained. Lots of people who came from more southerly states thinking they will never get cold I guess. In fact my entire trip there and back was colder than many trips I make here. ( Can't say I was toasty, but I had my warm sleeping gear, however,I missed my Brides cuddle!!) I really enjoyed the Rally anyway
I had to change out my Old Suburban because of holes in the exchanger. I'm really happy with the result and now I can work in my coach even on winter days with the furnace going. (You can be confidant that it gets pretty cold here for long periods of time)
May I suggest you avoid using a used furnace of our vintage because of the possibilities of leaks, and the amount of work it is to install. It's not really that difficult putting in a new one, but by installing new you will have the furnace for pretty well your lifetime.
Here is the install I did to a new version of the suburban. The Plywood is simply the supports for the metal plenum inside the plywood box. The metal can be bent with simple hand tools and a few blocks of wood you cut on the saw. Do not purchase the adaptor as noted in the documentation. You can make it very easy.
Lately, I've also added a couple of more hoses, to the sides of the furnace, that are not in the documentation, to distribute some heat into the cockpit area and into the upper section of the bedroom area because I have a permanent bed and the heat outlets were on the floor.
Here is the install:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6020-suburban-furnace-replace.html
Hope to see you up the Canadian Rockies in the near future.
Best regards
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: [GMCnet] suburban furnace [message #200667 is a reply to message #200590] |
Tue, 05 March 2013 06:15 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Well, I wanna know, does anyone manufacture an RV furnace which uses a combustion blower which pulls air through the burner, as opposed tio pushing it like most of them? My home furnace does this. It does require the blower wheel to be stainless, because it endures hot air from the combustion chamber. It is a good safety feature though. The combustion chamber is at lower pressure than the heating air passing over it, so any leask will be exhausted outside rather than going into the living space.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: John Heslinga <rbeeper@hotmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] suburban furnace
Skip:
Living in what most would call, Northern Canada, (Edmonton is one of the most Northerly Large Cities), I can tell you that a furnace is the best way to go. I mostly go to Banff, Jasper and the other Canadian National Parks because we are only a few hours away) Most nights are cold enough to fire up the furnace just a bit before going to bed and a bit on waking. (That is all that is real necessary)
On the many trips I've made south of here( as far as Texas) I was surprised at the amount of times I've had to give a little heat for evening and morning comfort.
I almost never get sites that have electricity and I refuse to run the generator because they bother neighbours, so I have to be independent. A furnace uses a lot of power to keep the fans running, therefore I do not keep it on all night (I like being away from the crowds). We keep nice and warm because we keep warm bedding, and my Bride and I cuddle a lot!!!
What surprised me the most was when I went to the Amana Rally in the Fall. ( I was the Stranger in the tent). It froze a couple of nights, blew the tent over, and it was pretty cool most nights, and there were more than I would have expected who had no furnace and of course they complained. Lots of people who came from more southerly states thinking they will never get cold I guess. In fact my entire trip there and back was colder than many trips I make here. ( Can't say I was toasty, but I had my warm sleeping gear, however,I missed my Brides cuddle!!) I really enjoyed the Rally anyway
I had to change out my Old Suburban because of holes in the exchanger. I'm really happy with the result and now I can work in my coach even on winter days with the furnace going. (You can be confidant that it gets pretty cold here for long periods of time)
May I suggest you avoid using a used furnace of our vintage because of the possibilities of leaks, and the amount of work it is to install. It's not really that difficult putting in a new one, but by installing new you will have the furnace for pretty well your lifetime.
Here is the install I did to a new version of the suburban. The Plywood is simply the supports for the metal plenum inside the plywood box. The metal can be bent with simple hand tools and a few blocks of wood you cut on the saw. Do not purchase the adaptor as noted in the documentation. You can make it very easy.
Lately, I've also added a couple of more hoses, to the sides of the furnace, that are not in the documentation, to distribute some heat into the cockpit area and into the upper section of the bedroom area because I have a permanent bed and the heat outlets were on the floor.
Here is the install:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6020-suburban-furnace-replace.html
Hope to see you up the Canadian Rockies in the near future.
Best regards
--
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
TC4W "Too Cool For Words"
Retirement Projects Galore
Edmonton, Alberta
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: suburban furnace [message #200748 is a reply to message #200590] |
Tue, 05 March 2013 21:54 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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| John Heslinga wrote on Mon, 04 March 2013 11:51 |
... Here is the install I did to a new version of the suburban. The Plywood is simply the supports for the metal plenum inside the plywood box. The metal can be bent with simple hand tools and a few blocks of wood you cut on the saw. Do not purchase the adaptor as noted in the documentation. You can make it very easy. ...
...
Here is the install:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6020-suburban-furnace-replace.html
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Nice install. Good use of the space under the 'wedge" used to angle the furnace.
Without seeing the cabinet around the furnace, I can not see how you addressed the biggest problem (IMHO) with the angled base.... access for maintenance.
Both of my Birch's came from Coachman with angled bases. I could not slide the furnace "insides" out of the case due to the cabinets surrounding the furnace. One I disassembled the base, the other I cut the cabinet. The coach I use now has a "collapsible" angled base.
On my 1973, I followed Arch's instructions and kept the furnace level by putting a metal "back" on the furnace. My install might have other issues, but I can slide the furnace out to work on it!.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: suburban furnace [message #200759 is a reply to message #200506] |
Wed, 06 March 2013 00:06 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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THANKS MIKE!!
re:| Quote: |
Nice install. Good use of the space under the 'wedge" used to angle the furnace.
Without seeing the cabinet around the furnace, I can not see how you addressed the biggest problem (IMHO) with the angled base.... access for maintenance.
Both of my Birch's came from Coachman with angled bases. I could not slide the furnace "insides" out of the case due to the cabinets surrounding the furnace. One I disassembled the base, the other I cut the cabinet. The coach I use now has a "collapsible" angled base.
On my 1973, I followed Arch's instructions and kept the furnace level by putting a metal "back" on the furnace. My install might have other issues, but I can slide the furnace out to work on it!.
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The furnace in my Canyon Lands 26 is directly below the galley sink. I re-mounted the shelf below that sink at about the same angle about 1 inch above the furnace, and built a side wall on the shelf in that cupboard so items would not fall down. The space left was perfect for two Rubbermaid dish pans that I use as pseudo drawers. They hold all dish servicing and clean up needs such as Towels, cloths, detergent, etc. It turns out that the items are only slightly closer to the bottom of the sink. We seldom put anything higher in there anyway. (I only lost a couple inches) The rear dish pan needs to be tipped to get it under the sink trap to slide it in and out. I built a removable lip on the front face of the higher shelf so that the cupboards doors have a frame between them. I also cut out and framed the galley cupboard and couch so that I can access the side of the furnace once the couch is open. (Could have made a cover or door, but it was not really needed) After removing the lip on the shelf with two screws, I can also pull out the guts of the furnace to service it. While I believe there are lots of "Leaks" in the galley cupboard for adequate return air, I placed a grate in the lower cupboard door to ensure plenty of return air to the furnace. I'm sure I took pictures of that job too but I cannot seem to find them.
Best Regards
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: suburban furnace [message #200760 is a reply to message #200506] |
Wed, 06 March 2013 00:11 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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Mike:
In addition to my last post. (Just remembered) The new Suburban furnace was not as high as the the old furnace and that ment that the shelf, while at an angle, did not have to be as high.. The Propane line also need to be re-plumbed to the opposite side of the furnace
Best regards
John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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| Re: suburban furnace [message #200773 is a reply to message #200506] |
Wed, 06 March 2013 09:23 |
75realsteel
Messages: 26
Registered: December 2012
Location: Chicago
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Hi -
I recently installed a new Suburban SF-35 in my '75. So far it works great - it keeps the coach at a comfortable 72 on a day in the 20's - so I'm happy 
I have a couple pictures of the install here:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6312-furnace.html
I used the existing furnace floor mounting bracket from the NT-30 and cut an additional hole in the fiberglass underneath one of the existing holes. Rather than install on an angle as others have done (see Gene's link above) to compensate for the curvature of the coach, I welded an extension on the exhaust pipe that came with the unit and extended the intake pipe using PVC and a clamp. I think I extended both by 2 to 3 inches.
I thought I had a picture of the extension, but I can't find it. The picture of the outside of the coach shows it in mid-installation - the end result is that the intake/exhaust plate is nice and snug up against the coach.
To cover the second of the existing holes, I used the old exhaust plate and sandwiched a piece of thin plexiglass between it and the coach's fiberglass. It doesn't look bad and it was easier than trying to patch the hole properly....at least for now.
Regarding air flow:
I re-used the two existing rear ducts and the existing duct to the bathroom.
I added a second duct to the existing duct in the front which exits under the davo.
I also installed a sheet-metal back on the furnace as suggested by others - to improve circulation across the circuit board.
The hardest problem I had was getting a good unit from PPL.
The first one they sent was pretty banged up - the plastic blower housing was very cracked and thus unusable. PPL was very good about sending a replacement out immediately. Unfortunately, this one was a bit beat up as well. But, I essentially salvaged it using a piece from the first one they'd sent.
So - be forewarned. In my opinion, Suburban do a TERRIBLE job of packaging this furnace.
Kevin
'75 Eleganza
Chicago
'77 Kingsley 26 - Chicago, IL
[Updated on: Wed, 06 March 2013 09:27] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: suburban furnace [message #200966 is a reply to message #200506] |
Fri, 08 March 2013 00:53 |
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John Heslinga
Messages: 632
Registered: February 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Karma: 4
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Senior Member |
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I got a private message asking a question. (What Model of SUburban furnace did you use? ) I thought I might post my answer for everyones benefit.
| Quote: |
I used a NT30. 30000BTU. Furnace with a basement duct option (That's the little duct adaptor)
The intake and exhaust ports that go through the wall and the case measurements were the closest to the original. The heat output was also appropriate for what I felt my needs were. I do use my coach in some very cold weather and am quite comfortable, even though there is no more insulation than what the factory provided. (No water when it's real cold however because I cannot heat the black tank and no guarantee to get enough heat behind the walls for the piping) ( Don't forget I live in Northern Canada) There are actually three small outlets in the ducting behind the wall toward the rear of the coach. One at the water inlet in the Power hatch area, another in the water pump hatch where the water tank is and another under the bathroom sink. ( yes that duct goes all the way around the coach) (see the picture with the excess ducting)
I would like to also repeat that I needed to increase the amount of outlets and ducting from the original. The original had 3 3 1/2" ducts. 1 under The Davo and 2 toward rear of Coach. You might notice that one outlet on the Davo side had a cap on it. I had assumed that would be fine for the new furnace as well. That is not OK. The furnace would overheat, kicking in the over heat burner shutdown safety features because there was not enough air moving through the furnace. I uncapped and added another outlet under the Davo closer to the Front of the coach with 4" ducting and solved the problem. It also made sitting at the table and on the Davo more comfortable because it blew under the Table. I also find my bride and I love to put our feet near those outlets as we sit.
During the normal RVing season I find the furnace to be extremely satisfying. When it gets cool, I turn it on for a few minutes and we are comfortable. If we're are plugged in, having it work automatically is like heaven. I know that some say they would prefer to use an electric heater and have the resort pay the cost. I like being able to just turn the thermostat up and enjoy. It's also very convenient if you are "Walmart Touring" without power , and its cheaper than running the generator.
Good luck with your plans!!
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John and Cathie Heslinga
1974 Canyonlands 260
455, Manny tranny and 1 ton, 3:70 LS,
Red Seal Journeyman, DTE, BEd. MEd.
Edmonton, Alberta
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