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| [GMCnet] Ball Joints [message #199836] |
Mon, 25 February 2013 17:48  |
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fitzmorrispr
Messages: 137
Registered: February 2013
Location: Los Angeles
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So, as I've told you guys, I've got my '73 at Bob's Wheel Alignment &
Suspension of Chatsworth, CA
I told him that the correct lower joints were the Moog k6215
( http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/MOO0/K6215.oap?year=1973&make=GMC&model=Transmode&vi=1499341
)
just like you all told me.
According to him, those're what he ordered. However, the studs are the
wrong length. Are there multiple variants of that part number, or
something?
(And before you all assume I've got a dud of a shop, Bob is probably
the best in LA County. He already knew about the caveats involved in
aligning the MH, and he's the guy everyone goes to, be it for their
'30s Ford Pickup or their commercial van)
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ball Joints [message #199843 is a reply to message #199836] |
Mon, 25 February 2013 18:05  |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
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Maybe they were miss boxed?
Sully
77 royale
Seattle
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 25, 2013, at 3:48 PM, Patrick Fitzmorris <fitzmorrispr@gmail.com> wrote:
> So, as I've told you guys, I've got my '73 at Bob's Wheel Alignment &
> Suspension of Chatsworth, CA
>
> I told him that the correct lower joints were the Moog k6215
> ( http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/MOO0/K6215.oap?year=1973&make=GMC&model=Transmode&vi=1499341
> )
> just like you all told me.
>
> According to him, those're what he ordered. However, the studs are the
> wrong length. Are there multiple variants of that part number, or
> something?
>
> (And before you all assume I've got a dud of a shop, Bob is probably
> the best in LA County. He already knew about the caveats involved in
> aligning the MH, and he's the guy everyone goes to, be it for their
> '30s Ford Pickup or their commercial van)
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ball Joints [message #199847 is a reply to message #199836] |
Mon, 25 February 2013 18:20 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Patrick,
I assume when you say "studs" you mean the mounting "wings" that stick out from both sides of the lower ball joint?
AFAIK there are no variants of that part number.
Sounds like Go over to Bob's shop and take pictures of the old and new ball joints and post them to the photo site so we can get a
look at them.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Fitzmorris
So, as I've told you guys, I've got my '73 at Bob's Wheel Alignment & Suspension of Chatsworth, CA
I told him that the correct lower joints were the Moog k6215
(http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/MOO0/K6215.oap?year=1973&make=GMC&model=Transmode&vi=1499341)
just like you all told me.
According to him, those're what he ordered. However, the studs are the wrong length. Are there multiple variants of that part
number, or something?
(And before you all assume I've got a dud of a shop, Bob is probably the best in LA County. He already knew about the caveats
involved in aligning the MH, and he's the guy everyone goes to, be it for their '30s Ford Pickup or their commercial van)
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ball Joints [message #199856 is a reply to message #199847] |
Mon, 25 February 2013 18:48 |
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fitzmorrispr
Messages: 137
Registered: February 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
Think i'll do just that in the morning. He'll be closed for the day now.
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Robert Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> Patrick,
>
> I assume when you say "studs" you mean the mounting "wings" that stick out from both sides of the lower ball joint?
>
> AFAIK there are no variants of that part number.
>
> Sounds like Go over to Bob's shop and take pictures of the old and new ball joints and post them to the photo site so we can get a
> look at them.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Patrick Fitzmorris
>
> So, as I've told you guys, I've got my '73 at Bob's Wheel Alignment & Suspension of Chatsworth, CA
>
> I told him that the correct lower joints were the Moog k6215
> (http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/MOO0/K6215.oap?year=1973&make=GMC&model=Transmode&vi=1499341)
> just like you all told me.
>
> According to him, those're what he ordered. However, the studs are the wrong length. Are there multiple variants of that part
> number, or something?
>
> (And before you all assume I've got a dud of a shop, Bob is probably the best in LA County. He already knew about the caveats
> involved in aligning the MH, and he's the guy everyone goes to, be it for their '30s Ford Pickup or their commercial van)
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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The Greatfruit: 1973, 26', Canyon Lands or Painted Desert, in Pineapple Yellow
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ball Joints [message #199868 is a reply to message #199836] |
Mon, 25 February 2013 19:59 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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here is the link, commercial GMC 73-78 230 & 260
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/MOO0/K6215.oap?ck=Search_k-6215_-1_927&keyword=k-6215
| fitzmorrispr wrote on Mon, 25 February 2013 18:48 |
So, as I've told you guys, I've got my '73 at Bob's Wheel Alignment &
Suspension of Chatsworth, CA
I told him that the correct lower joints were the Moog k6215
( http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/MOO0/K6215.oap?year=1973&make=GMC&model=Transmode&vi=1499341
)
just like you all told me.
According to him, those're what he ordered. However, the studs are the
wrong length. Are there multiple variants of that part number, or
something?
(And before you all assume I've got a dud of a shop, Bob is probably
the best in LA County. He already knew about the caveats involved in
aligning the MH, and he's the guy everyone goes to, be it for their
'30s Ford Pickup or their commercial van)
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ball Joints [message #199896 is a reply to message #199836] |
Tue, 26 February 2013 06:07 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Patrick,
I have come across more than one improperly boxed ball joint. If your guy
checks a little closer, he'll see that the taper is correct, but the
diameter of the taper is incorrect. It sounds like you have a set for an
automobile.
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:48 PM, Patrick Fitzmorris
<fitzmorrispr@gmail.com>wrote:
> So, as I've told you guys, I've got my '73 at Bob's Wheel Alignment &
> Suspension of Chatsworth, CA
>
> I told him that the correct lower joints were the Moog k6215
> (
> http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/MOO0/K6215.oap?year=1973&make=GMC&model=Transmode&vi=1499341
> )
> just like you all told me.
>
> According to him, those're what he ordered. However, the studs are the
> wrong length. Are there multiple variants of that part number, or
> something?
>
> (And before you all assume I've got a dud of a shop, Bob is probably
> the best in LA County. He already knew about the caveats involved in
> aligning the MH, and he's the guy everyone goes to, be it for their
> '30s Ford Pickup or their commercial van)
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Take care,
Steve
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ball Joints [message #199907 is a reply to message #199896] |
Tue, 26 February 2013 08:23 |
Surbo
Messages: 213
Registered: February 2004
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| Steven Ferguson wrote on Tue, 26 February 2013 06:07 |
Patrick,
I have come across more than one improperly boxed ball joint. If your guy
checks a little closer, he'll see that the taper is correct, but the
diameter of the taper is incorrect. It sounds like you have a set for an
automobile.
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:48 PM, Patrick Fitzmorris
<fitzmorrispr@gmail.com>wrote:
> So, as I've told you guys, I've got my '73 at Bob's Wheel Alignment &
> Suspension of Chatsworth, CA
>
> I told him that the correct lower joints were the Moog k6215
> (
> http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/MOO0/K6215.oap?year=1973&make=GMC&model=Transmode&vi=1499341
> )
> just like you all told me.
>
> According to him, those're what he ordered. However, the studs are the
> wrong length. Are there multiple variants of that part number, or
> something?
>
> (And before you all assume I've got a dud of a shop, Bob is probably
> the best in LA County. He already knew about the caveats involved in
> aligning the MH, and he's the guy everyone goes to, be it for their
> '30s Ford Pickup or their commercial van)
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Take care,
Steve
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Fella's;
The Moog number for the Toro & Eldo is K5221.
http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MOOG-K5221
The Moog number for the GMCMH is K6215.
http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MOOG-K6215
As Steve said, things get mis-boxed and it creates problems unless the installer is sharp enough to catch it.
Before you install the new ball joints, make sure you check and see if the grease zerk will take grease and lube the ball joint. Some of the zerks will bottom out and not let the grease flow into the joint. It may not be the correct zerk, or if it is, cut a cross cut with a narrow hack saw or such cutting tool to let the grease flow out of the zerk into the joint.
Take care from Bob Drewes in SESD
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ball Joints [message #199909 is a reply to message #199907] |
Tue, 26 February 2013 08:35 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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Here is some pics. both are for MH.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5808-ball-joint-compare.html
| Surbo wrote on Tue, 26 February 2013 09:23 |
| Steven Ferguson wrote on Tue, 26 February 2013 06:07 |
Patrick,
I have come across more than one improperly boxed ball joint. If your guy
checks a little closer, he'll see that the taper is correct, but the
diameter of the taper is incorrect. It sounds like you have a set for an
automobile.
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 4:48 PM, Patrick Fitzmorris
<fitzmorrispr@gmail.com>wrote:
> So, as I've told you guys, I've got my '73 at Bob's Wheel Alignment &
> Suspension of Chatsworth, CA
>
> I told him that the correct lower joints were the Moog k6215
> (
> http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/MOO0/K6215.oap?year=1973&make=GMC&model=Transmode&vi=1499341
> )
> just like you all told me.
>
> According to him, those're what he ordered. However, the studs are the
> wrong length. Are there multiple variants of that part number, or
> something?
>
> (And before you all assume I've got a dud of a shop, Bob is probably
> the best in LA County. He already knew about the caveats involved in
> aligning the MH, and he's the guy everyone goes to, be it for their
> '30s Ford Pickup or their commercial van)
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Take care,
Steve
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Fella's;
The Moog number for the Toro & Eldo is K5221.
http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MOOG-K5221
The Moog number for the GMCMH is K6215.
http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MOOG-K6215
As Steve said, things get mis-boxed and it creates problems unless the installer is sharp enough to catch it.
Before you install the new ball joints, make sure you check and see if the grease zerk will take grease and lube the ball joint. Some of the zerks will bottom out and not let the grease flow into the joint. It may not be the correct zerk, or if it is, cut a cross cut with a narrow hack saw or such cutting tool to let the grease flow out of the zerk into the joint.
Take care from Bob Drewes in SESD
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C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ball Joints [message #199973 is a reply to message #199970] |
Tue, 26 February 2013 15:06 |
C Boyd
Messages: 2629
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 18
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Senior Member |
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Yes Sir, in the right pic you can see the bottom of the 2 threads in the housing. Short hole with a long zerk. The left one has 5 or 6 threads and a short zerk. I replaced the right one.
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ball Joints [message #200099 is a reply to message #199973] |
Wed, 27 February 2013 12:19 |
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fitzmorrispr
Messages: 137
Registered: February 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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well, it turns out I misunderstood Bob. Went over there yesterday
afternoon, and he showed me the situation.
The problem is, the taper of the k6215 is too narrow. (by about a 16th
of an inch) the ball will be touching the knuckle before the taper
seats in the hole, and if you were to put the nut on, it wouldn't do
much good at all.
the casting number on the knuckle is correct. the k6215 /ought/ to
fit. The part that /actually/ fits is from a 1966-69 Toro.
But it doesn't. Seems a Mickey Mouse job was done at some point. our
theory is that someone in Fair Oaks (between Sacramento and Folsom)
didn't have as good access to parts as we do. the tie rods are non
standard too, and as Bob said, it makes the whole thing questionable.
Are the shocks factory spec? what about part xyz? etc.
All the same, he's gotten joints that work, and he expects to resolve
the tie rod question today.
On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 1:06 PM, Charles Boyd <covered-wagon@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> Yes Sir, in the right pic you can see the bottom of the 2 threads in the housing. Short hole with a long zerk. The left one has 5 or 6 threads and a short zerk. I replaced the right one.
>
>
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The Greatfruit: 1973, 26', Canyon Lands or Painted Desert, in Pineapple Yellow
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ball Joints [message #200101 is a reply to message #199836] |
Wed, 27 February 2013 12:30 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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Still not clear as to a Moog missbox or if some PO honed the
Taper in your knuckles? Either way shows it's best to order from our vendor circle as returns and help are not an issue. Hope the knuckles are ok. Remember to have them do a perfect dry fit and follow all the steps Dave Lenzi teaches before final install or damage to arm and joint can occur with road loading.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ball Joints [message #200160 is a reply to message #199836] |
Thu, 28 February 2013 08:58 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Senior Member |
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I don't know if Dave's seminar is available here, anyone? In very short, the contact circle on the BJ casting has to have a full smooth contact patch to the arm and the spacing to the ears has to be correct by massaging the arm dimensions. Also they take the ear mounting hardware up a size and grade and thread lock. That's the shortest version without all the details.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ball Joints [message #200185 is a reply to message #200149] |
Thu, 28 February 2013 12:54 |
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fitzmorrispr
Messages: 137
Registered: February 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Jim,
I would, but that's not quite what happened.
See, the older toro joint is, apparently, BIGGER than the MH joint.
The correct MH joint, as specified all over this list, and several
other sites besides, gets swallowed up by the larger hole on the
knuckle. It isn't a toro knuckle though, as the upper ball joint does
fit, and is correct (whereas a toro knuckle from '66-69 would have a
different, more expensive upper joint), and the casting number is
correct. it's a reamed MH knuckle. No way to put the MH joint on.
Bob might not have talked to Miguel or you, but he's very good at what
he does, which is front ends.
On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 10:52 PM, Jim Kanomata <jimkanomata@gmail.com> wrote:
> Someone put on a Toro/Eldro knuckle and ball joint.
> Now your trying to put in a correct part on a wrong set up.
> Have him ream the knuckle to fit the MH ball joint, if he has a correct
> reamer.
> Let people that are not familier with a GMC MH and you end up with this
> situation.
> It is amasing how many shops call us for parts as they are told by the
> customers to call us for parts or problem.
> Miguel at MGM GMC could have solved this problem if you would have told
> them to call him re. this problem.
> Who else would know these things in Southern CA. (909)229-7508
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 10:42 AM, Patrick Fitzmorris <fitzmorrispr@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>
>> oh, and. Could you remind me of Dave's instructions?
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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_______________________________________________
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The Greatfruit: 1973, 26', Canyon Lands or Painted Desert, in Pineapple Yellow
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ball Joints [message #200202 is a reply to message #200185] |
Thu, 28 February 2013 17:27 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I"m not sure I understand this thread. Here is what I think I know:
'66 Toro knuckles cannot be used on a GMC unless it's a very late Toro with
disk brakes.
Any knuckles from a Toro or Eldo that are used on a GMC must have the lower
ball joint taper reamed to the larger diameter of the MH ball joint. The
upper ball joint on the GMC is the same as used in the Toro Eldo
applications. Note: Some early Toro upper ball joints have a slightly
different bolt pattern. They can be used, but the mounting plates must be
drilled to the MH control arm bolt pattern. Not a really big deal.
On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 11:54 AM, Patrick Fitzmorris <fitzmorrispr@gmail.com
> wrote:
> Jim,
> I would, but that's not quite what happened.
>
> See, the older toro joint is, apparently, BIGGER than the MH joint.
> The correct MH joint, as specified all over this list, and several
> other sites besides, gets swallowed up by the larger hole on the
> knuckle. It isn't a toro knuckle though, as the upper ball joint does
> fit, and is correct (whereas a toro knuckle from '66-69 would have a
> different, more expensive upper joint), and the casting number is
> correct. it's a reamed MH knuckle. No way to put the MH joint on.
>
> Bob might not have talked to Miguel or you, but he's very good at what
> he does, which is front ends.
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 10:52 PM, Jim Kanomata <jimkanomata@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Someone put on a Toro/Eldro knuckle and ball joint.
> > Now your trying to put in a correct part on a wrong set up.
> > Have him ream the knuckle to fit the MH ball joint, if he has a correct
> > reamer.
> > Let people that are not familier with a GMC MH and you end up with this
> > situation.
> > It is amasing how many shops call us for parts as they are told by the
> > customers to call us for parts or problem.
> > Miguel at MGM GMC could have solved this problem if you would have told
> > them to call him re. this problem.
> > Who else would know these things in Southern CA. (909)229-7508
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 10:42 AM, Patrick Fitzmorris <
> fitzmorrispr@gmail.com
> >> wrote:
> >
> >> oh, and. Could you remind me of Dave's instructions?
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> GMCnet mailing list
> >> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jim Kanomata
> > Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
> > jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> > http://www.appliedgmc.com
> > 1-800-752-7502
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Take care,
Steve
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ball Joints [message #200214 is a reply to message #200202] |
Thu, 28 February 2013 18:34 |
Kingsley Coach
Messages: 2691
Registered: March 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Karma: -34
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Senior Member |
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Patrick
Not in any way to critize your Bob guy, but there are fellows here that
REALLY know what they are talking about. I thought I had God's gift to
GMC's when I first got mine ...just before this site existed, but in
reflexion, he wasn't.... and I speak to the guy, but we are no longer
friends.
I'm a handy guy but not an expert in anything, and I don't change a toilet
paper roll without checking on here First.
Mike in New Mexico
On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 7:27 PM, Steven Ferguson <botiemad11@gmail.com>wrote:
> I"m not sure I understand this thread. Here is what I think I know:
> '66 Toro knuckles cannot be used on a GMC unless it's a very late Toro with
> disk brakes.
> Any knuckles from a Toro or Eldo that are used on a GMC must have the lower
> ball joint taper reamed to the larger diameter of the MH ball joint. The
> upper ball joint on the GMC is the same as used in the Toro Eldo
> applications. Note: Some early Toro upper ball joints have a slightly
> different bolt pattern. They can be used, but the mounting plates must be
> drilled to the MH control arm bolt pattern. Not a really big deal.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 11:54 AM, Patrick Fitzmorris <
> fitzmorrispr@gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
> > Jim,
> > I would, but that's not quite what happened.
> >
> > See, the older toro joint is, apparently, BIGGER than the MH joint.
> > The correct MH joint, as specified all over this list, and several
> > other sites besides, gets swallowed up by the larger hole on the
> > knuckle. It isn't a toro knuckle though, as the upper ball joint does
> > fit, and is correct (whereas a toro knuckle from '66-69 would have a
> > different, more expensive upper joint), and the casting number is
> > correct. it's a reamed MH knuckle. No way to put the MH joint on.
> >
> > Bob might not have talked to Miguel or you, but he's very good at what
> > he does, which is front ends.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 10:52 PM, Jim Kanomata <jimkanomata@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > Someone put on a Toro/Eldro knuckle and ball joint.
> > > Now your trying to put in a correct part on a wrong set up.
> > > Have him ream the knuckle to fit the MH ball joint, if he has a correct
> > > reamer.
> > > Let people that are not familier with a GMC MH and you end up with this
> > > situation.
> > > It is amasing how many shops call us for parts as they are told by the
> > > customers to call us for parts or problem.
> > > Miguel at MGM GMC could have solved this problem if you would have told
> > > them to call him re. this problem.
> > > Who else would know these things in Southern CA. (909)229-7508
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 10:42 AM, Patrick Fitzmorris <
> > fitzmorrispr@gmail.com
> > >> wrote:
> > >
> > >> oh, and. Could you remind me of Dave's instructions?
> > >> _______________________________________________
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> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jim Kanomata
> > > Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
> > > jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> > > http://www.appliedgmc.com
> > > 1-800-752-7502
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GMCnet mailing list
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> Take care,
> Steve
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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>
--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS
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