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| Re: [GMCnet] Master cylinders, bleeding, brake fluid [message #197849 is a reply to message #197831] |
Fri, 08 February 2013 16:20   |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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G'day,
I cut and pasted the table out of Karen' email below:
Dry boiling point Wet boiling point
DOT 3 205 °C (401 °F) 140 °C (284 °F)
DOT 4 230 °C (446 °F) 155 °C (311 °F)
DOT 5 260 °C (500 °F) 180 °C (356 °F)
DOT 5.1 270 °C (518 °F) 190 °C (374 °F)
Note that the ATE DOT 4 (see below) has a higher boiling point than the DOT 5.1 noted above.
There is another spec that needs to be considered, how hydroscopic is the particular brand of fluid.
I have had the ATE Super Blue Racing DOT 4 in Double Trouble's brakes for three years (ATE says that's OK), however, I will be
flushing it out this year with the Pressure Bleeder I got from Jim Hupy. I will report how long it takes me to do the job and what
the fluid looks like after three years.
Here's an email I sent in January of 2011 - I verified all the links are good.
************************************************************************************************************************************
**********
When we were discussing Dan's brakes someone mentioned that Summit had brake fluid that came in two colors which made it easy to
flush.
I have been a proponent of ATE brake fluid because they make Dot 4 brake fluid in two colors with the highest dry and wet boiling
points available that was OK for use in non racing vehicles. This was true up until I found the information on Wilwood EXP 600.
ATE Super Blue Racing: Dry boiling point: 536°F Wet boiling point: 392°F
http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/accessoryDetail.jsp?ID=21
ATE TYP 200: Dry boiling point: 536°F Wet boiling point: 392°F
http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/accessoryDetail.jsp?ID=22
As you can see in the blurb ATE recommends changing it every three years and "The identical specifications of the fluid and color
difference make it easy to know when the old fluid is completely flushed out of the system."
Here's the info on Wilwood EXP 600 on the Summit website:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-290-6209/
Which has the following specs:
Wilwood EXP 600 Plus Super High-Temp racing brake fluid is a highly refined blend developed for extreme performance under the high
heat and extreme pressure of professional motorsports. EXP 600 Plus has tested to 626 degrees F with a wet boiling point of 417
degrees F. These numbers far exceed any DOT or SAE specifications. EXP 600 Plus brake fluid has been proven to maintain a firm pedal
feel and quick response and IT HAS LOW-MOISTURE AFFINITIES TO SLOW THE NATURAL ABSORPTION RATE OF WATER VAPOR. For optimum
performance, EXP 600 Plus should not be diluted with any other brake fluids; add new fluid to a clean system.
I contacted Wilwood in an attempt to get a recommended interval to flush it so I could compare it to the ATE fluid. Below you will
find my email and Wilwood's response. As you can see they said it is OK for street use but didn't provide a recommended flush
interval.
Also at $18.75 for 16.9 ounces (500cc) EXP 600 is three times the price than the ATE at $12.00 for 33.8 ounces (1000cc). That's
$37.00 vs. $12.00. I found that it took 1 liter to fill the whole system in Double Trouble (front & middle disks, rear drums) so the
cost to fill or flush would triple.
Here's a link to a chart I found that provides some other racing brake fluids. BE CAREFUL and do your own research as some of these
are NOT recommended for use in non-racing vehicles!
http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/group.asp?GroupID=BRAKEFLUID
In case you're wondering what I'm going to do; I have two liters of ATE Super Blue and Three liters of Type 200 so that should
answer that question. So now you ask what would I do if I didn't have that and the answer is DUNNO! ;-)
STOP THE PRESSES!!!! I just spotted this in Wilwood's flyer on the EXP 600!
"Use of EXP should be restricted to not more than 12 months."
http://www.wilwood.com/PDF/Flyers/fl178.pdf
Looks like Wilwood customer service leaves a bit to be desired!
Well now I KNOW I'll be staying with ATE!
************************************************************************************************************************************
**********
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of KB
Sent: Saturday, 9 February 2013 6:42 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Master cylinders, bleeding, brake fluid
and now there's apparently a DOT-5.1 (not to be confused with DOT-5).
Compatible with DOT-3 and DOT-4, but has a much higher temperature range:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOT_5.1
Not that I've actually seen it in any of our auto parts stores...
Karen
1973 23'
1975 26'
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Master cylinders, bleeding, brake fluid [message #197880 is a reply to message #197831] |
Fri, 08 February 2013 19:55 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Karen,
Good find! I hadn't heard of it. Downside: O'Reilly's web site:
Wagner DOT 4 $6.69/qt
Wagner DOT 5.1 $15.99/qt
No one's fault but the bureaucrats: WHAT A STUPID THING TO DO! I'm
astounded than anyone would assign the same basic number to incompatible
fluids. No question whatsoever, in my estimation, that many will interpret
that as meaning they ARE compatible and mix them -- creating a new hazard.
:-(
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 2:41 PM, KB wrote:
> and now there's apparently a DOT-5.1 (not to be confused with DOT-5).
> Compatible with DOT-3 and DOT-4, but has a much higher temperature range:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOT_5.1
>
> Not that I've actually seen it in any of our auto parts stores...
>
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] Master cylinders, bleeding, brake fluid [message #197891 is a reply to message #197880] |
Fri, 08 February 2013 20:56 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Ken,
I discovered that you can send questions to the DOT so I asked why the nomenclature DOT 5.1 was given to a brake fluid that was
incompatible with DOT 5.
The automated system noted I would receive a response within 4 days. I'm looking forward to the "SPIN" response!
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Henderson
Karen,
Good find! I hadn't heard of it. Downside: O'Reilly's web site:
Wagner DOT 4 $6.69/qt
Wagner DOT 5.1 $15.99/qt
No one's fault but the bureaucrats: WHAT A STUPID THING TO DO! I'm
astounded than anyone would assign the same basic number to incompatible
fluids. No question whatsoever, in my estimation, that many will interpret
that as meaning they ARE compatible and mix them -- creating a new hazard.
:-(
Ken H.
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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