Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » towing changing steering
| towing changing steering [message #196604] |
Sun, 27 January 2013 17:58  |
skip2
Messages: 544
Registered: September 2011
Location: Winter Haven,FL (center o...
Karma: 3
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Riddle me this GMCers with more tow miles than me. I pulled the boat this weekend, about 3000lbs boat/trailer and 50lbs tongue weight, with the auto levelers on and working, it handle and steered the best it ever has, like the beast was enjoying pulling the boat. Does anyone know of what changes in the steering geometry or what parts could have slacken taken out because of towing that makes such a big difference. Thanks in advance for thoughts or inputs.
Skip
74 Canyon Lands, FiTech,
3.7 FD LSD, Manny Tranny,
Springfield Distributor,
2001 Chevy Tracker Ragtop Towd
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| Re: [GMCnet] towing changing steering [message #196606 is a reply to message #196604] |
Sun, 27 January 2013 18:10  |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Skip,
Towing the boat may have caused the ride height control system to allow the rear end to run lower which would increase the caster.
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Skip Hartline
Sent: Monday, 28 January 2013 10:59 AM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: [GMCnet] towing changing steering
Riddle me this GMCers with more tow miles than me. I pulled the boat this weekend, about 3000lbs boat/trailer and 50lbs tongue
weight, with the auto levelers on and working, it handle and steered the best it ever has, like the beast was enjoying pulling the
boat. Does anyone know of what changes in the steering geometry or what parts could have slacken taken out because of towing that
makes such a big difference. Thanks in advance for thoughts or inputs.
Skip
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: towing changing steering [message #196607 is a reply to message #196604] |
Sun, 27 January 2013 18:37 |
LNelson
Messages: 335
Registered: December 2008
Location: Springfield, MO
Karma: 0
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Skip, I have towed boats, mostly tandem trailer/9,000# (no, NOT with the GMC)...many thousands of miles.
I am glad you had success, but if your hitch weight is only 50# with a 3,000# load, I think you will find that most towing experts will say that is way too light.
Glad it worked for you. I would think that boat would have been "having it's way" with your rig. I have almost lost a boat with a light tongue. Had to climb inside it and get some load forward. It just took moving somethings into the bow to make all the difference.
Larry Nelson Springfield, MO
Ex GMC'er, then GM Busnut
now '77 Eleganza ARS WB0JOT
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| Re: towing changing steering [message #196608 is a reply to message #196604] |
Sun, 27 January 2013 18:50 |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
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| skip2 wrote on Sun, 27 January 2013 17:58 |
Riddle me this GMCers with more tow miles than me. I pulled the boat this weekend, about 3000lbs boat/trailer and 50lbs tongue weight, with the auto levelers on and working, it handle and steered the best it ever has, like the beast was enjoying pulling the boat. Does anyone know of what changes in the steering geometry or what parts could have slacken taken out because of towing that makes such a big difference. Thanks in advance for thoughts or inputs.
Skip
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My guess would be the tension of the trailer is compensating for the tendency of the rear to not follow the front.
Misalignment in the REAR, sloppy bogey bushings, rear wheel axle nut not tightened to spec. Maybe others, I am not an expert, just a shotgunner and Monday morning quarterback.
The rear of the GMC is sort of a trailer to the front. My experience with trailers is that toe out wags wider and wider (is inherently unstable), toe in is inherently self correcting and stable.
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| Re: [GMCnet] towing changing steering [message #196627 is a reply to message #196606] |
Mon, 28 January 2013 06:13 |
skip2
Messages: 544
Registered: September 2011
Location: Winter Haven,FL (center o...
Karma: 3
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Senior Member |
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Rob M. mentioned something about the tongue weight causing the rear to sit lower and changing castor, I did hear the leveler kick in and raise the rear up to normal with the weight and let air out when I unhooked the boat.
Skip Hartline
74 Canyon Lands, FiTech,
3.7 FD LSD, Manny Tranny,
Springfield Distributor,
2001 Chevy Tracker Ragtop Towd
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| Re: [GMCnet] towing changing steering [message #196681 is a reply to message #196627] |
Mon, 28 January 2013 16:08 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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| skip2 wrote on Mon, 28 January 2013 04:13 |
Rob M. mentioned something about the tongue weight causing the rear to sit lower and changing castor, I did hear the leveler kick in and raise the rear up to normal with the weight and let air out when I unhooked the boat.
Skip Hartline
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If your ride height system is working properly, I do not think the ride height would change enough to effect the coach's steering. I think the increased directional stability is due to the drag of pulling a heavy weight behind. As long as that weight is stable, it would act as tail on an airplane... adding a bit of drag at the rear to keep the nose pointed straight. I think with a boat you'd call it a sea anchor(?).
That said, how nice the coach acted while towing probably has more to do with how stable the trailer is. To light in the tongue and it will lose some stability. If the wheels are not pointed correctly... same thing. With a "poor pulling" trailer I doubt you would have seen an improvement in your coach's handling.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: towing changing steering [message #196694 is a reply to message #196604] |
Mon, 28 January 2013 17:39 |
skip2
Messages: 544
Registered: September 2011
Location: Winter Haven,FL (center o...
Karma: 3
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Someone mentioned possibly worn bogies. What is allowable freeplay in bogies, and if they are too far out does the trutrac system do anything to help this or was it designed for another purpose. I like the comparison with the trailer being like a tail on a kite. I know I have low tongue weight but it has always been a straight pulling trailer behind any vehicle.
Just some more thoughts that came to mind while reading comments.
Skip Hartline
74 Canyon Lands, FiTech,
3.7 FD LSD, Manny Tranny,
Springfield Distributor,
2001 Chevy Tracker Ragtop Towd
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| Re: towing changing steering [message #196714 is a reply to message #196604] |
Mon, 28 January 2013 20:40 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447
Registered: October 2006
Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Trutrac is not a fix for worn out parts. I takes some of the flex out of the rear control arms the way I understand it. I have no experience with them other than that the flex was designed into the system, especially when taking low speed sharp turns in a parkign lot etc. On paper, this would increase tire scrub the way I figure. Might help when passing trucks etc. to minimize that push.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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| Re: towing changing steering [message #196716 is a reply to message #196604] |
Mon, 28 January 2013 20:56 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
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I put on a set of the Straight Track bogie devices (http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/1214), and think they're a really good investment. At least they were on my coach... I didn't drive it a whole lot prior to installing them, but really (!) noticed the coach's tendency to rear-steer on truck ruts on I-10 heading back from LA to AZ. Even worse, when I dropped the rear wheels off the edge of the road (hey, it takes time to figure out where those corners are...), the resulting "whip" from the back end was a real white-knuckler (partially due to me getting used to driving the GMC, no doubt, but still a hand full no matter who was piloting).
With the Straight Track, the truck ruts were a non-issue. I could feel them, but only in the way that the wheels had to "split the difference" between them (that is, I could tell when the front wheels and rear wheels moved over the "seam" in the truck rut, but it didn't really move the coach). Driving back onto the road after dropping the rear wheels off was a non-event, which is a huge improvement.
They were a little harder to install than I expected them to be, but still an easy one-day driveway job. I only installed them on the middle wheels, since the rear wheels have a trailing arm configuration, and will pretty much follow the rest of the rig on their own.
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: [GMCnet] towing changing steering [message #197470 is a reply to message #196681] |
Tue, 05 February 2013 16:48 |
Ron77
Messages: 91
Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
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I think the "sea anchor" concept may be correct. One may wonder why pulling
a towd wouldn't be the same. One reason could be that the front wheels of a
car being towed are able to turn from side to side as they catch pavement
irregularities, while trailer wheels are fixed in direction and won't
deviate from dead straight ahead.
Ron Johnson
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
[mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike Miller
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 2:08 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] towing changing steering
skip2 wrote on Mon, 28 January 2013 04:13
> Rob M. mentioned something about the tongue weight causing the rear to sit
lower and changing castor, I did hear the leveler kick in and raise the rear
up to normal with the weight and let air out when I unhooked the boat.
> Skip Hartline
If your ride height system is working properly, I do not think the ride
height would change enough to effect the coach's steering. I think the
increased directional stability is due to the drag of pulling a heavy weight
behind. As long as that weight is stable, it would act as tail on an
airplane... adding a bit of drag at the rear to keep the nose pointed
straight. I think with a boat you'd call it a sea anchor(?).
That said, how nice the coach acted while towing probably has more to do
with how stable the trailer is. To light in the tongue and it will lose
some stability. If the wheels are not pointed correctly... same thing.
With a "poor pulling" trailer I doubt you would have seen an improvement in
your coach's handling.
--
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#1)'73 26' exPainted D. -- (#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23'
Birchaven Side Bath
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] towing changing steering [message #197480 is a reply to message #197470] |
Tue, 05 February 2013 17:34 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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If your trailer's wheels hit a big enough bump or hole
to throw them off the ground, there is no telling where
they will come down! Many, if not most, boat trailers
(and others) don't have any shock absorbers to tame that!
Picture your "sea anchor" doing that and tugging your
"stern" around!
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ~ TZE166V101966 ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
______________
*[ ]~~~[][ ][|\
*--OO--[]---O-*
> From: ron77@gltcinsurance.com
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 14:48:05 -0800
> CC: RonJohnson@gltcinsurance.com
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] towing changing steering
>
> I think the "sea anchor" concept may be correct. One may wonder why pulling
> a towd wouldn't be the same. One reason could be that the front wheels of a
> car being towed are able to turn from side to side as they catch pavement
> irregularities, while trailer wheels are fixed in direction and won't
> deviate from dead straight ahead.
>
> Ron Johnson
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org
> [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike Miller
> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 2:08 PM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] towing changing steering
>
>
>
> skip2 wrote on Mon, 28 January 2013 04:13
> > Rob M. mentioned something about the tongue weight causing the rear to sit
> lower and changing castor, I did hear the leveler kick in and raise the rear
> up to normal with the weight and let air out when I unhooked the boat.
> > Skip Hartline
>
>
> If your ride height system is working properly, I do not think the ride
> height would change enough to effect the coach's steering. I think the
> increased directional stability is due to the drag of pulling a heavy weight
> behind. As long as that weight is stable, it would act as tail on an
> airplane... adding a bit of drag at the rear to keep the nose pointed
> straight. I think with a boat you'd call it a sea anchor(?).
>
> That said, how nice the coach acted while towing probably has more to do
> with how stable the trailer is. To light in the tongue and it will lose
> some stability. If the wheels are not pointed correctly... same thing.
> With a "poor pulling" trailer I doubt you would have seen an improvement in
> your coach's handling.
>
>
> --
> Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
> (#1)'73 26' exPainted D. -- (#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23'
> Birchaven Side Bath
> http://m000035.blogspot.com
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
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> GMCnet mailing list
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