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| newbie rambling about 75 Palm Beach project [message #196052] |
Mon, 21 January 2013 01:07  |
Jack Ramsey
Messages: 82
Registered: December 2012
Location: Tulare, CA
Karma: 1
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Newbie here. Have recently acquired for darn near nothing ($2k) a 75 Palm Beach, long story helping a friend and somehow I get a coach. Central California located-owned , with 100K on the odometer. engine trans rebuilt by real good mechanic at 89K, but coach sitting for last 12 years. 600hrs on the 6Kw Onan with “circuit board needs replacement” (previous owner statement). Front end rebuilt in 1997, when 1 airbag replaced and shocks. New 16.5 steel wheels tires in 97. I think a fresh water tank replaced 94 and hot water heater. Old big single roof mounted AC. Usual plethora of 70’s CB radio antennas and associated wire loose everywhere. No rust, no real leaks apparent, see some wood warping top inside of closet, headliner shot, including panels coming down. Original refrigerator, drivers and passenger seats, side bathroom, and cabinets. Toilet replaced with ceramic in 94. Last owner gutted the dinette, drivers side couch and rear bed-seating stuff, and never got around to finishing. Exterior no dents painted poorly in 97, but stored outside since then, no wax, probably buff out ok.
Engine starts right up, drives great, (I think, no reference), brakes ok for a huge vehicle nothing else electrical works besides the aftermarket tachometer and the slowest pump up of the airbags that I could imagine. (fixed for leaks in 97, but 15yrs later probably needs work)
Now my history. Old factory trained Porsche mechanic from the 70’s (911 mechanical fuel injection my real love through the 928 introduction) Put down the wrenches in the 80’s for old big dish satellite work. Some of you might remember the wizard codes for the VC II, someone had to pull those codes out of head ends. That brought me into the computer industry and been a network engineer for the last 25years, while also doing project management for large infrastructure college building projects (construction). Picked up the wrenches about 10 years ago after getting a good deal on a couple of BMW 12 cyl cars (750 and an 850) and really like fixing vehicles when not doing it for a living. Built a nice shop for this hobby, with a couple of lifts, but nothing to lift a GMC. Started a Solar install company in 2007 and been doing double duty both keeping it alive and now it is holding it’s own, so even more work, but energy management and solar are the future. (I’m not very green)
So now that I have shown that I have the qualification to know better than undertake this project but obviously not the intelligence or common sense to just get one for a reasonable price that has already been gone through. I guess I join the crowd here. I REALLY like the design, the simplicity and the ROOM to work on the systems. They say if you look back at a car and smile after parking it, you have the right car. That is how I feel about the GMC design.
Not that it can’t use some updated technology to make things easier and of course lighter, but keep the reliability of cubic inches and torque. Want to move to throttle body injection, and electronic ignition including knock sensor, but things working now. Looks like air flow in the engine compartment was not a thought in the 70’s so any improvement would help.
Since all the electrical system is currently down, and LED lighting is so efficient, along with the roof AC should be a lot more efficient in the last 35years, that there may be a reason to get more battery, put in an efficient inverter-charger and possibly run darn near everything on DC. I have done this for some of my off grid folks. My latest laptop runs on 18.5v, I know of AC units that run on 24V and most of my solar panels in the 200-250W range have 28-35V DC outputs. Pretty much perfect for charging 2 X 12V batteries in serial but line tapping them to 12V for standard RV equipment. Anyone done this?
The newer DC Air Conditioning units SHOULD not have the huge startup draw the AC units have. Battery balancing-charging may be too complex, and simple sine wave inverters are pretty reliable these days.
The other factor is when I move off the standard available stuff, the price often becomes stupid so efficiency vs $$, and money trumps today. Start a small generator when running AC or plug in. KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid)
DC AC http://www.dcairco.com/index.php/products/trucks/dc-13000
Wheels-Tires: Previous owner bought new 16.5 wheels and hard to find now. The ones I have are way too old to drive on. I know the Alcoa’s are pretty and all that, but functionality is first on my list. I have not seen a posting on any GMC steel 16’s made, or any pics of good looking ones. Don’t want to mess with the offset so in my mind, offset is more important than simple clearance. May not be a relevant on a truck as sports cars, but the physics is the same. Anyone weigh the difference between a well made 16” steel and the Alcoa’s?
All I can come up with now..
Jack
Jack Ramsey
Tulare, CA
TZE165V101526
1975 Palm Beach
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| Re: newbie rambling about 75 Palm Beach project [message #196057 is a reply to message #196052] |
Mon, 21 January 2013 07:02  |
1275gtsport
Messages: 272
Registered: September 2009
Location: Rothesay NB
Karma: 0
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wow welcome aboard. your first post covers about 2 years of most everybody else 
just kidding. sounds like you have a great place to start, and judging from your history you would have torn a "sorted" GMC apart to do it your way anyway.
lets start at the bottom - wheels go with the alcoa's or the Eagles that Jim k has. (appliedgmc dot com)
the alloy wheels are straighter and smoother to drive on (so I have been told).
due to the fact that the GMC is hub centred the last steel wheel was from a early 90 delivery truck and we know those were babied while in use so used ones that are true and round will be impossible to find and the industry changed the shape in the mid ninety's so new ones will also be hard to come by and again designed to be a workhorse not a cruiser.
I like the idea of a fully dc system. however some people still need their hair dryers. and where GMC designed the unit to run on A/C (hence the 6k genny) why change it? if it works. (the control board is not much and really they all need to be replaced every 30 years or so anyway.)
with the 455 and the shape of the GMC you are going to get between 8 and 10mpg depending on if your towing or not. if you change to the TBI and the HEI you will get between 8 and 10 mpg depending on if your towing or not.
in my option the 455 was a reliable engine and well suited for the job. I am also a fan of the quadrajet carb if yours needs to be rebuilt send it to dick patterson and be done with it for another 35 years (your get about 8-10 mpg after rebuild)
I do have the HEI in my 77 palm beach as she came that way when I bought her not she when it was installed I am about the 4th owner.
go with LED. I plan to as funding allows.
most of all get it safe, get it liveable, and DRIVE IT.
get a copy of the "black list" and someone will always help get you back home
Adam Raeburn
Rothesay, NB
1976 Austin Mini
1977 GMC Palm Beach
---------------------------------------------------
Once you replace everything that is attached to something else. It will all be fixed.
[Updated on: Mon, 21 January 2013 07:04] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: newbie rambling about 75 Palm Beach project [message #196061 is a reply to message #196052] |
Mon, 21 January 2013 08:30 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| Quote: |
Jack's first posting was just too long to actually quote.
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Jack,
Welcome aboard.
You have come to the right group/family/cult/asylum....
As to Wheels. If you can possibly work it, just start by getting new alloy wheels from JimK. I have acquired a full set of GMC wheels and by the time I was through the cost difference only makes sense if you are very short of resources. To answer your direct question, steel wheels weigh in at 38#ea and (I am told) that the JimK's Eagels are in the mid 20's.
Even with the low voltage and reduced starting current, any A/C unit is going to be a power hog (~1Hp/ton). So, even with a smallish unit, the required battery bank would have to be enormous to support it from more than a few minutes. (I do have a client that reports he occasionally runs his A/C on his inverter, he also has three 8D's for a house bank. That is 700# of battery!)
For TBI there is a part of this group that can provide the complete recipe for a computer controlled engine. I read it, but I am not one of them - yet. Those that make this mod always have great things to say about it and indeed, they are seeing fuel mileages of 8~10 (depending on towing and driving style).
Lastly, I will tell you that you will quickly find that the coach becomes more a part of your life than just a thing you own. As a waterman, I liken it to the relation a waterman has with his boat. That is why I have taken to welcoming new owners with a paraphrase of our greeting to a new owner or vessel. So,
May the Good Lord bless this coach and all those that set forth within her.
Welcome Jack
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: newbie rambling about 75 Palm Beach project [message #196072 is a reply to message #196052] |
Mon, 21 January 2013 09:54 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
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Jack,
Your life's journey parallels mine in a lot of ways, though I spent a lot more on my well-outfitted Royale knowing I'm too much of a car guy and perfectionist, and knowing that buying the already restored GMC (or Porsche or BMW or...) generally costs a lot less than DIY'ing. The two previous owners (POs, that is) spent around $100k fixing mine up for me.
On the wheels - I'd heartily recommend springing for a set of the nice aluminum wheels. They REALLY set off the looks of the coach, save weight (though I doubt they have much real effect on the ride quality, given the huge weight of the vehicle) and will have you running easily sourced 16" tires forever. Amortize (theoretically) the cost of the wheels over the next 20 years, and it's cheap to run 'em.
I like your ideas about the big DC system, and it's likely you might be able to cobble something together from what's laying around your shop (a happy situation!). But that's a LOT of batteries to be dealing with, and as other have said, the concept of being able to run your A/C on batteries is waiting on a couple quantum leaps in battery technology (I have to run both my rooftop units to get my rig cooled down in the AZ summer).
LED lighting is a no-brainer. I paid under $3 each for some 9-chip SMD warm white panels that took all of 30 seconds each to install (after calculating that I'd be drawing around 50 amps of DC to turn on all my coach lights!).
But if my rig had a 6K Onan with only 600 hours, I'd be REALLY tempted to get it running again. For all their quirks, these things are really designed to outlast the cockroaches. My rig came with a newer design Onan 6.5K Emerald Plus generator which is a LOT lighter than the original, and that had less than 50 hours on it... so I doubt I'll ever be much of an expert at fixing or replacing Onans... 
And finally, I'm planning on installing a TBI fuel injection system in the near future. In fact, I have the "system" laying on my office floor - includes a Howell harness, a Chevy big-block throttle body with a couple 90 pound injectors, a computer controlled distributor, a new funky (police car) air cleaner that will bolt up nicely to my ram air system, plus all the "little stuff" like a new fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator. I'd recommend living with the carb for a while to simplify any troubleshooting when you do install the FI system. And I know that it's an immutable law of nature that our rigs never get better than 10.0000mpg, but with the right FI system, "you might".
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: newbie rambling about 75 Palm Beach project [message #196077 is a reply to message #196072] |
Mon, 21 January 2013 10:34 |
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Hi Jack and welcome; I'm sure you'll enjoy your project as we all do. Sometimes they makes us weary, but the trips right after are worth it. I'd second Steve's remarks about waiting 'till the last for new wheels and tires; those doggone tires age out pretty fast. When you come up to Reno to pay our taxes, stop by and see the GMC'ers in this area. If you drive the coach, I have a pad and full hookups for you.
Best and luck to you
geo groth '73 260 Sequoia
Carson City Nevada 89703
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| Re: newbie rambling about 75 Palm Beach project [message #196085 is a reply to message #196052] |
Mon, 21 January 2013 12:34 |
George Beckman
Messages: 1085
Registered: October 2008
Location: Colfax, CA
Karma: 11
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| Jack Ramsey wrote on Sun, 20 January 2013 23:07 |
Newbie here. Have recently acquired for darn near nothing ($2k) a 75 Palm Beach, long story helping a friend and somehow I get a coach. Anyone weigh the difference between a well made 16” steel and the Alcoa’s?
All I can come up with now..
Jack
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Jack,
With your experience/s you are going to have a great time. Knowing how to turn a wrench and knowing computer systems put you in fine shape on several of your plans. EFI will fit right in to your computer background, not to mention your experience with and love for mechanical fuel injection.
The Onan board is just a simple "computer" and guys here know how to tweak and fix them.
I have a '74 and opted for centered Eagles from JimK's Applied and I am happy I did. I ended up with Toyo tires and after about 35K I am not even beginning to think about new tires. (I do no tow very often.)
Our coach lived in Madera for about two years but then moved to Colfax... we came with it.
I am no help with headliners but had a coach that had a very light plywood? headliner that was great. I have seen other materials used and this kind of fix will never sag again.
Here is the link to the EFI discussion page maintained by Randy Van Winkle.
https://sites.google.com/site/gmcmhefi/?pli=1
On the lower right, you will find a link to join the discussion. Most of us receive it via e-mail. There are some smart folks there and a number of us have had real success with the system. (Not beating up on the Quadrajet... our coach made the first 200K with one.)
'74 Eleganza, SE, Howell + EBL
Best Wishes,
George
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| Re: newbie rambling about 75 Palm Beach project [message #196088 is a reply to message #196052] |
Mon, 21 January 2013 13:36 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I'll use all cap to differentate my replies... I am NOT yelling at you...
> Newbie here. Have recently acquired for darn near nothing ($2k) a 75 Palm Beach, ...
NICE PRICE. BEING IN CALIFORNIA, HAVING A 1975 (NO-SMOG) IS AN ADVANTAGE.
> ... Last owner gutted the dinette, drivers side couch and rear bed-seating stuff, and never got around to finishing. ...
SAD BUT MANY NEW OWNERS, GET OVERLY AMBITIOUS AND RIP APART A COACH THAT THEY HAVE NEVER USED... ONLY TO RUN OUT OF TIME MONEY AND/OR AMBITION. SELLING THE COACH AT A LARGE LOSS AS A BASKET CASE. YOU DO NOT SEEM TO HAVE MUCH CHOICE BUT MAKE IT USABLE AND USE IT A WHILE BEFORE MAKING MAJOR CHANGES.
> ... Now my history. ...
SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE THE SKILLS NEEDED, AND CAN ADD MORE TO THIS FORUM. (WELCOME ABOARD!)
> ... They say if you look back at a car and smile after parking it, you have the right car. That is how I feel about the GMC design.
I HAVE DONE THAT....
> ... Not that it can’t use some updated technology to make things easier and of course lighter, but keep the reliability of cubic inches and torque. Want to move to throttle body injection, and electronic ignition including knock sensor, but things working now. ...
THERE ISN'T A SUBSTITUTE FOR CUBIC INCHES... OTHER THAN CUBIC DOLLARS! THE WAY I UNDERSTAND IT, THE COMPUTER CONTROLLED DISTRIBUTOR GIVES THE MOST IMPROVEMENT IN MPG.... MAYBE 1 MPG. IS IT WORTH IT? HOW LONG DO YOU PLAN ON USING YOUR COACH AFTER THE CHANGE? HOW MANY MILES WOULD YOU NEED TO DRIVE TO BREAK EVEN? OF COURSE IT COULD BE WORTH IT JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN.... (AND HAVING A 1975 YOU DO NOT NEED TO WORRY ABOUT THE SILLY EMISSIONS GAMES.)
> ... Wheels-Tires: Previous owner bought new 16.5 wheels and hard to find now. The ones I have are way too old to drive on. ...
UNLESS YOU ARE GOING TO BE DRIVING IT WHILE FINISHING THE INTERIOR, DO NOT BUY TIRES UNTIL THE REST OF THE COACH IS READY FOR USE. JUST DO NOT DRIVE FAR OR FAST ON BADLY CHECKED TIRES. (ANY BODY DAMAGE FROM BLOW TIRES COULD EASILY BE MORE THAN THE COST OF NEW TIRES.) USE THE TIME TO BUDGET FOR GOOD WHEELS. JIM K. (APPLIED GMC) HAS SOME NICE ALUMINUM WHEELS. <http://www.appliedgmc.com/level.itml/icOid/489>
---------------------
Your ideas on aa all DC power system are interesting. Current wisdom says it maybe impractical with current technology, but you seem to have a background in the field so you most likely have a better idea of what what is available and what works and what doesn't. We'll be very happy to see what you come up with. As a note: there are many engineering/scientist types that like to see real measurable data. Please to not take requests for data as criticism of your ideas.
Again, Welcome aboard.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] newbie rambling about 75 Palm Beach project [message #196097 is a reply to message #196052] |
Mon, 21 January 2013 15:06 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Jack,
Welcome aboard. You've already demonstrated the background qualifications
to join the cult. All you have to do now is catch up on the past few
years' discussions so you can avoid having to ask so many (non-)dumb
questions and sort through the conflicting answers. IMHO, the best way to
do that would be to go to the GMCNet archive at <
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/gmcnet-archive>. There,
you can do a Google search and find a WORLD of information about any
GMC-related (and many not) topic.
Myself having done a ground-up restoration of a '57 356, and been in this
cult for 14 years, we should meet soon.
Because of your interest in TBI, I'm about to sign you up for our
dedicated-to-the-GMC EFI group. You'll get an "invitation" shortly.
Ken H.
Americus, GA
'76 X-Birchaven w/Cad500/Howell EFI+ & EBL
www.gmcwipersetc.com
On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 2:08 AM, wrote:
>
>
> Newbie here. Have recently acquired for darn near nothing ($2k) a 75 Palm
> Beach, long story helping a friend and somehow I get a coach. Central
> California located-owned , with 100K on the odometer...
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] newbie rambling about 75 Palm Beach project [message #196098 is a reply to message #196088] |
Mon, 21 January 2013 15:08 |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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Go to Swap Meet page and someone has 6 Alco's for sale in the Carmel Ca.
area.
http://gmc.mybirdfeeder.net/GMCforum/index.php?t=msg&th=24822&start=0&rid=2253
On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 12:36 PM, Mike Miller <m000035@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I'll use all cap to differentate my replies... I am NOT yelling at you...
>
> > Newbie here. Have recently acquired for darn near nothing ($2k) a 75
> Palm Beach, ...
>
> NICE PRICE. BEING IN CALIFORNIA, HAVING A 1975 (NO-SMOG) IS AN ADVANTAGE.
>
> > ... Last owner gutted the dinette, drivers side couch and rear
> bed-seating stuff, and never got around to finishing. ...
>
> SAD BUT MANY NEW OWNERS, GET OVERLY AMBITIOUS AND RIP APART A COACH THAT
> THEY HAVE NEVER USED... ONLY TO RUN OUT OF TIME MONEY AND/OR AMBITION.
> SELLING THE COACH AT A LARGE LOSS AS A BASKET CASE. YOU DO NOT SEEM TO
> HAVE MUCH CHOICE BUT MAKE IT USABLE AND USE IT A WHILE BEFORE MAKING MAJOR
> CHANGES.
>
> > ... Now my history. ...
>
> SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE THE SKILLS NEEDED, AND CAN ADD MORE TO THIS FORUM.
> (WELCOME ABOARD!)
>
> > ... They say if you look back at a car and smile after parking it, you
> have the right car. That is how I feel about the GMC design.
>
> I HAVE DONE THAT....
>
> > ... Not that it can’t use some updated technology to make things
> easier and of course lighter, but keep the reliability of cubic inches and
> torque. Want to move to throttle body injection, and electronic ignition
> including knock sensor, but things working now. ...
>
> THERE ISN'T A SUBSTITUTE FOR CUBIC INCHES... OTHER THAN CUBIC DOLLARS!
> THE WAY I UNDERSTAND IT, THE COMPUTER CONTROLLED DISTRIBUTOR GIVES THE
> MOST IMPROVEMENT IN MPG.... MAYBE 1 MPG. IS IT WORTH IT? HOW LONG DO YOU
> PLAN ON USING YOUR COACH AFTER THE CHANGE? HOW MANY MILES WOULD YOU NEED
> TO DRIVE TO BREAK EVEN? OF COURSE IT COULD BE WORTH IT JUST BECAUSE YOU
> CAN.... (AND HAVING A 1975 YOU DO NOT NEED TO WORRY ABOUT THE SILLY
> EMISSIONS GAMES.)
>
> > ... Wheels-Tires: Previous owner bought new 16.5 wheels and hard to find
> now. The ones I have are way too old to drive on. ...
>
> UNLESS YOU ARE GOING TO BE DRIVING IT WHILE FINISHING THE INTERIOR, DO NOT
> BUY TIRES UNTIL THE REST OF THE COACH IS READY FOR USE. JUST DO NOT DRIVE
> FAR OR FAST ON BADLY CHECKED TIRES. (ANY BODY DAMAGE FROM BLOW TIRES COULD
> EASILY BE MORE THAN THE COST OF NEW TIRES.) USE THE TIME TO BUDGET FOR
> GOOD WHEELS. JIM K. (APPLIED GMC) HAS SOME NICE ALUMINUM WHEELS. <
> http://www.appliedgmc.com/level.itml/icOid/489>
>
> ---------------------
>
> Your ideas on aa all DC power system are interesting. Current wisdom says
> it maybe impractical with current technology, but you seem to have a
> background in the field so you most likely have a better idea of what what
> is available and what works and what doesn't. We'll be very happy to see
> what you come up with. As a note: there are many engineering/scientist
> types that like to see real measurable data. Please to not take requests
> for data as criticism of your ideas.
>
> Again, Welcome aboard.
>
>
> --
> Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
> (#1)'73 26' exPainted D. -- (#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23'
> Birchaven Side Bath
> http://m000035.blogspot.com
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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| Re: [GMCnet] newbie rambling about 75 Palm Beach project [message #196099 is a reply to message #196052] |
Mon, 21 January 2013 09:11 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Jack,
Sounds like you have a great project to not only challange your latent dendancy to stay busy but my guess it will be one of the larger challenges you will face. Yes, doing things you know but not as a profession is fun to me too, turning my back on a career in electronics, I also enjoy doing things I did before on coaches.
You have a core, every system is a core with every one of them needing updating and/or upgrading as well. Yes, there are many advancements in almost every industry represented in that coach. Some are good for you while others may put you in a liability loop where you are more in harms way than advancing your usability.
Concerning adapting your solar charging technology, battery power and all that-- man you hit it on the head, it's a function of technologuy and cost. You cannot loose sight of your goal-- you don;t want a "Back to the Future" Emit Brown Delorian -- it needs to be efficient as well as effective and descent looking to boot. KISS is the key here! Though cutting edge is trying to be off the grid on renewable energy 100%, right now it's not that practicle if you want the creature comforts us soft Americans have become accustomed to. Yes, new design efficient small almost throw away generators are on the rise. I think I have to admitt that as long as any of us "old guys" here on the net are concerned-- off the grid on renewable energy is still not in our cards. We can lean into it but still, using petroleum for our main power needs is where we are.
As far as the rest of the restoration process on your core, investigate each issue, bouncs efficincy, cost and finish on each. Keep the coach toward an end result of reliable today for anyone and you will have a really nice machine. Do it once, do it right and move on to the next issue. Do not look at the whole project, I cannot tell you how many folks have gotten started and just gave up because there was too much to consider.
Do not set a dollar budget though you must track the investment somehow, don;t do something on the cheap because you will have to do it again later. If you do your best and make good decisions the cost will be what it must be. If you get your head around spending $50,000 to make the coach right, chances are you will be very happy with the outcome. Nash your teeth every time you spend any money and the project will end up depressing and a burden. Don't set yourself up to fail, take your time. Your first project sh
ould be the "B&B's", that's bearings and brakes. Just cause the wheels turn and it stops on command does not mean those systems are good to go by any stretch of the imagination. Assume and replace every part of the brake system-- it's nice if the beast runs but you really need to know it will stop! Suspension, tires and wheels-- A quad bag system, if you blow an air bag or a tire while driving it makes a mess of the "Crovette plastic" lower body panels which will cost you. Take your time investigate, remember your goal and don;t get bogged down.
Good luck, your journey has begun-- "And as always, if any of your mission impossible force are killed or captured, we will disavouw your existance."
Jim Bounds
----------------------------
________________________________
From: Jack Ramsey <jramsey@altsys.org>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 2:08 AM
Subject: [GMCnet] newbie rambling about 75 Palm Beach project
Newbie here. Have recently acquired for darn near nothing ($2k) a 75 Palm Beach, long story helping a friend and somehow I get a coach. Central California located-owned , with 100K on the odometer. engine trans rebuilt by real good mechanic at 89K, but coach sitting for last 12 years. 600hrs on the 6Kw Onan with “circuit board needs replacement” (previous owner statement). Front end rebuilt in 1997, when 1 airbag replaced and shocks. New 16.5 steel wheels tires in 97. I think a fresh water tank replaced 94 and hot water heater. Old big single roof mounted AC. Usual plethora of 70’s CB radio antennas and associated wire loose everywhere. No rust, no real leaks apparent, see some wood warping top inside of closet, headliner shot, including panels coming down. Original refrigerator, drivers and passenger seats, side bathroom, and cabinets. Toilet replaced with ceramic in 94. Last owner gutted the dinette, drivers side couch and rear bed-seating
stuff, and ne
ver got around to finishing. Exterior no dents painted poorly in 97, but stored outside since then, no wax, probably buff out ok.
Engine starts right up, drives great, (I think, no reference), brakes ok for a huge vehicle nothing else electrical works besides the aftermarket tachometer and the slowest pump up of the airbags that I could imagine. (fixed for leaks in 97, but 15yrs later probably needs work)
Now my history. Old factory trained Porsche mechanic from the 70’s (911 mechanical fuel injection my real love through the 928 introduction) Put down the wrenches in the 80’s for old big dish satellite work. Some of you might remember the wizard codes for the VC II, someone had to pull those codes out of head ends. That brought me into the computer industry and been a network engineer for the last 25years, while also doing project management for large infrastructure college building projects (construction). Picked up the wrenches about 10 years ago after getting a good deal on a couple of BMW 12 cyl cars (750 and an 850) and really like fixing vehicles when not doing it for a living. Built a nice shop for this hobby, with a couple of lifts, but nothing to lift a GMC. Started a Solar install company in 2007 and been doing double duty both keeping it alive and now it is holding it’s own, so even more work, but energy management and solar are the
future. (I
217;m not very green)
So now that I have shown that I have the qualification to know better than undertake this project but obviously not the intelligence or common sense to just get one for a reasonable price that has already been gone through. I guess I join the crowd here. I REALLY like the design, the simplicity and the ROOM to work on the systems. They say if you look back at a car and smile after parking it, you have the right car. That is how I feel about the GMC design.
Not that it can’t use some updated technology to make things easier and of course lighter, but keep the reliability of cubic inches and torque. Want to move to throttle body injection, and electronic ignition including knock sensor, but things working now. Looks like air flow in the engine compartment was not a thought in the 70’s so any improvement would help.
Since all the electrical system is currently down, and LED lighting is so efficient, along with the roof AC should be a lot more efficient in the last 35years, that there may be a reason to get more battery, put in an efficient inverter-charger and possibly run darn near everything on DC. I have done this for some of my off grid folks. My latest laptop runs on 18.5v, I know of AC units that run on 24V and most of my solar panels in the 200-250W range have 28-35V DC outputs. Pretty much perfect for charging 2 X 12V batteries in serial but line tapping them to 12V for standard RV equipment. Anyone done this?
The newer DC Air Conditioning units SHOULD not have the huge startup draw the AC units have. Battery balancing-charging may be too complex, and simple sine wave inverters are pretty reliable these days.
The other factor is when I move off the standard available stuff, the price often becomes stupid so efficiency vs $$, and money trumps today. Start a small generator when running AC or plug in. KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid)
DC AC http://www.dcairco.com/index.php/products/trucks/dc-13000
Wheels-Tires: Previous owner bought new 16.5 wheels and hard to find now. The ones I have are way too old to drive on. I know the Alcoa’s are pretty and all that, but functionality is first on my list. I have not seen a posting on any GMC steel 16’s made, or any pics of good looking ones. Don’t want to mess with the offset so in my mind, offset is more important than simple clearance. May not be a relevant on a truck as sports cars, but the physics is the same. Anyone weigh the difference between a well made 16” steel and the Alcoa’s?
All I can come up with now..
Jack
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| Re: [GMCnet] newbie rambling about 75 Palm Beach project [message #196101 is a reply to message #196052] |
Mon, 21 January 2013 15:16 |
Bruce Hart
Messages: 1501
Registered: October 2011
Location: La Grange, Wyoming
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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As a new owner I would like to caution you about checking your oil level on
a hot engine. The dip stick runs next to the exhaust manifold and will
burn your fingers if touched.
From the GMC.net archieves:
http://gmc.mybirdfeeder.net/GMCforum/index.php?t=msg&goto=167160&rid=2253&srch=Oil+Dip+Stick#msg_167160
On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 12:08 AM, Jack Ramsey <jramsey@altsys.org> wrote:
>
>
> Newbie here. Have recently acquired for darn near nothing ($2k) a 75 Palm
> Beach, long story helping a friend and somehow I get a coach. Central
> California located-owned , with 100K on the odometer. engine trans rebuilt
> by real good mechanic at 89K, but coach sitting for last 12 years. 600hrs
> on the 6Kw Onan with “circuit board needs replacement”
> (previous owner statement). Front end rebuilt in 1997, when 1 airbag
> replaced and shocks. New 16.5 steel wheels tires in 97. I think a fresh
> water tank replaced 94 and hot water heater. Old big single roof mounted
> AC. Usual plethora of 70’s CB radio antennas and associated wire
> loose everywhere. No rust, no real leaks apparent, see some wood warping
> top inside of closet, headliner shot, including panels coming down.
> Original refrigerator, drivers and passenger seats, side bathroom, and
> cabinets. Toilet replaced with ceramic in 94. Last owner gutted the
> dinette, drivers side couch and rear bed-seating stuff, and ne
> ver got around to finishing. Exterior no dents painted poorly in 97, but
> stored outside since then, no wax, probably buff out ok.
> Engine starts right up, drives great, (I think, no reference), brakes ok
> for a huge vehicle nothing else electrical works besides the aftermarket
> tachometer and the slowest pump up of the airbags that I could imagine.
> (fixed for leaks in 97, but 15yrs later probably needs work)
>
> Now my history. Old factory trained Porsche mechanic from the 70’s
> (911 mechanical fuel injection my real love through the 928 introduction)
> Put down the wrenches in the 80’s for old big dish satellite work.
> Some of you might remember the wizard codes for the VC II, someone had to
> pull those codes out of head ends. That brought me into the computer
> industry and been a network engineer for the last 25years, while also doing
> project management for large infrastructure college building projects
> (construction). Picked up the wrenches about 10 years ago after getting a
> good deal on a couple of BMW 12 cyl cars (750 and an 850) and really like
> fixing vehicles when not doing it for a living. Built a nice shop for this
> hobby, with a couple of lifts, but nothing to lift a GMC. Started a Solar
> install company in 2007 and been doing double duty both keeping it alive
> and now it is holding it’s own, so even more work, but energy
> management and solar are the future. (I
> 217;m not very green)
>
> So now that I have shown that I have the qualification to know better than
> undertake this project but obviously not the intelligence or common sense
> to just get one for a reasonable price that has already been gone through.
> I guess I join the crowd here. I REALLY like the design, the simplicity and
> the ROOM to work on the systems. They say if you look back at a car and
> smile after parking it, you have the right car. That is how I feel about
> the GMC design.
>
> Not that it can’t use some updated technology to make things easier
> and of course lighter, but keep the reliability of cubic inches and torque.
> Want to move to throttle body injection, and electronic ignition including
> knock sensor, but things working now. Looks like air flow in the engine
> compartment was not a thought in the 70’s so any improvement would
> help.
> Since all the electrical system is currently down, and LED lighting is so
> efficient, along with the roof AC should be a lot more efficient in the
> last 35years, that there may be a reason to get more battery, put in an
> efficient inverter-charger and possibly run darn near everything on DC. I
> have done this for some of my off grid folks. My latest laptop runs on
> 18.5v, I know of AC units that run on 24V and most of my solar panels in
> the 200-250W range have 28-35V DC outputs. Pretty much perfect for charging
> 2 X 12V batteries in serial but line tapping them to 12V for standard RV
> equipment. Anyone done this?
>
> The newer DC Air Conditioning units SHOULD not have the huge startup draw
> the AC units have. Battery balancing-charging may be too complex, and
> simple sine wave inverters are pretty reliable these days.
> The other factor is when I move off the standard available stuff, the
> price often becomes stupid so efficiency vs $$, and money trumps today.
> Start a small generator when running AC or plug in. KISS (Keep It Simple
> Stupid)
> DC AC http://www.dcairco.com/index.php/products/trucks/dc-13000
>
> Wheels-Tires: Previous owner bought new 16.5 wheels and hard to find now.
> The ones I have are way too old to drive on. I know the Alcoa’s are
> pretty and all that, but functionality is first on my list. I have not seen
> a posting on any GMC steel 16’s made, or any pics of good looking
> ones. Don’t want to mess with the offset so in my mind, offset is
> more important than simple clearance. May not be a relevant on a truck as
> sports cars, but the physics is the same. Anyone weigh the difference
> between a well made 16” steel and the Alcoa’s?
>
> All I can come up with now..
>
> Jack
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
_______________________________________________
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Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
1977 28' Kingsley
La Grange, Wyoming
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| Re: newbie rambling about 75 Palm Beach project [message #196267 is a reply to message #196052] |
Wed, 23 January 2013 02:16 |
jtblank
Messages: 237
Registered: June 2007
Location: Tulare, CA
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Jack,
Good to see you finally got to posting here.
Jack and I have the corner on the GMC market here in Tulare..lol
Jack was referred to me by someone locally as the town GMC expert. The definition for expert... x is an unknown quantity and a spurt is a drip under pressure....
Jack happened to come by to see me and I luckily had driven my '76 PB to work so he could have a look see but the inside is tore apart as I'm in the middle of a redo. Now that it's the start of another tax season (my 38th) I'm afraid not much will get accomplished until after April 15th other than the occasional work break sitting inside and dreaming.
I've got the feeling Jack will be a great asset to the GMC community. Looking forward to hearing about the DC experience.
John Blankenship
'76 Palm Beach
Tulare, CA
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| Re: [GMCnet] newbie rambling about 75 Palm Beach project [message #224839 is a reply to message #196099] |
Tue, 08 October 2013 00:00 |
mickeysss
Messages: 1476
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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|
Some times i forget how great Jim Bounds is to read.
Plato and shakespearean Great Memories Creating genius.
Below is a sample from the past.
On Jan 21, 2013, at 7:11 AM, Jim Bounds wrote:
> Jack,
>
> Sounds like you have a great project to not only challange your latent dendancy to stay busy but my guess it will be one of the larger challenges you will face. Yes, doing things you know but not as a profession is fun to me too, turning my back on a career in electronics, I also enjoy doing things I did before on coaches.
>
> You have a core, every system is a core with every one of them needing updating and/or upgrading as well. Yes, there are many advancements in almost every industry represented in that coach. Some are good for you while others may put you in a liability loop where you are more in harms way than advancing your usability.
>
> Concerning adapting your solar charging technology, battery power and all that-- man you hit it on the head, it's a function of technologuy and cost. You cannot loose sight of your goal-- you don;t want a "Back to the Future" Emit Brown Delorian -- it needs to be efficient as well as effective and descent looking to boot. KISS is the key here! Though cutting edge is trying to be off the grid on renewable energy 100%, right now it's not that practicle if you want the creature comforts us soft Americans have become accustomed to. Yes, new design efficient small almost throw away generators are on the rise. I think I have to admitt that as long as any of us "old guys" here on the net are concerned-- off the grid on renewable energy is still not in our cards. We can lean into it but still, using petroleum for our main power needs is where we are.
>
> As far as the rest of the restoration process on your core, investigate each issue, bouncs efficincy, cost and finish on each. Keep the coach toward an end result of reliable today for anyone and you will have a really nice machine. Do it once, do it right and move on to the next issue. Do not look at the whole project, I cannot tell you how many folks have gotten started and just gave up because there was too much to consider.
>
> Do not set a dollar budget though you must track the investment somehow, don;t do something on the cheap because you will have to do it again later. If you do your best and make good decisions the cost will be what it must be. If you get your head around spending $50,000 to make the coach right, chances are you will be very happy with the outcome. Nash your teeth every time you spend any money and the project will end up depressing and a burden. Don't set yourself up to fail, take your time. Your first project sh
> ould be the "B&B's", that's bearings and brakes. Just cause the wheels turn and it stops on command does not mean those systems are good to go by any stretch of the imagination. Assume and replace every part of the brake system-- it's nice if the beast runs but you really need to know it will stop! Suspension, tires and wheels-- A quad bag system, if you blow an air bag or a tire while driving it makes a mess of the "Crovette plastic" lower body panels which will cost you. Take your time investigate, remember your goal and don;t get bogged down.
>
> Good luck, your journey has begun-- "And as always, if any of your mission impossible force are killed or captured, we will disavouw your existance."
>
> Jim Bounds
> ----------------------------
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jack Ramsey <jramsey@altsys.org>
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 2:08 AM
> Subject: [GMCnet] newbie rambling about 75 Palm Beach project
>
>
>
> Newbie here. Have recently acquired for darn near nothing ($2k) a 75 Palm Beach, long story helping a friend and somehow I get a coach. Central California located-owned , with 100K on the odometer. engine trans rebuilt by real good mechanic at 89K, but coach sitting for last 12 years. 600hrs on the 6Kw Onan with circuit board needs replacement (previous owner statement). Front end rebuilt in 1997, when 1 airbag replaced and shocks. New 16.5 steel wheels tires in 97. I think a fresh water tank replaced 94 and hot water heater. Old big single roof mounted AC. Usual plethora of 70s CB radio antennas and associated wire loose everywhere. No rust, no real leaks apparent, see some wood warping top inside of closet, headliner shot, including panels coming down. Original refrigerator, drivers and passenger seats, side bathroom, and cabinets. Toilet replaced with ceramic in 94. Last owner gutted the dinette, drivers side couch and rear bed-seating
> stuff, and ne
> ver got around to finishing. Exterior no dents painted poorly in 97, but stored outside since then, no wax, probably buff out ok.
> Engine starts right up, drives great, (I think, no reference), brakes ok for a huge vehicle nothing else electrical works besides the aftermarket tachometer and the slowest pump up of the airbags that I could imagine. (fixed for leaks in 97, but 15yrs later probably needs work)
>
> Now my history. Old factory trained Porsche mechanic from the 70s (911 mechanical fuel injection my real love through the 928 introduction) Put down the wrenches in the 80s for old big dish satellite work. Some of you might remember the wizard codes for the VC II, someone had to pull those codes out of head ends. That brought me into the computer industry and been a network engineer for the last 25years, while also doing project management for large infrastructure college building projects (construction). Picked up the wrenches about 10 years ago after getting a good deal on a couple of BMW 12 cyl cars (750 and an 850) and really like fixing vehicles when not doing it for a living. Built a nice shop for this hobby, with a couple of lifts, but nothing to lift a GMC. Started a Solar install company in 2007 and been doing double duty both keeping it alive and now it is holding its own, so even more work, but energy management and solar are the
> future. (I
> 217;m not very green)
>
> So now that I have shown that I have the qualification to know better than undertake this project but obviously not the intelligence or common sense to just get one for a reasonable price that has already been gone through. I guess I join the crowd here. I REALLY like the design, the simplicity and the ROOM to work on the systems. They say if you look back at a car and smile after parking it, you have the right car. That is how I feel about the GMC design.
>
> Not that it cant use some updated technology to make things easier and of course lighter, but keep the reliability of cubic inches and torque. Want to move to throttle body injection, and electronic ignition including knock sensor, but things working now. Looks like air flow in the engine compartment was not a thought in the 70s so any improvement would help.
> Since all the electrical system is currently down, and LED lighting is so efficient, along with the roof AC should be a lot more efficient in the last 35years, that there may be a reason to get more battery, put in an efficient inverter-charger and possibly run darn near everything on DC. I have done this for some of my off grid folks. My latest laptop runs on 18.5v, I know of AC units that run on 24V and most of my solar panels in the 200-250W range have 28-35V DC outputs. Pretty much perfect for charging 2 X 12V batteries in serial but line tapping them to 12V for standard RV equipment. Anyone done this?
>
> The newer DC Air Conditioning units SHOULD not have the huge startup draw the AC units have. Battery balancing-charging may be too complex, and simple sine wave inverters are pretty reliable these days.
> The other factor is when I move off the standard available stuff, the price often becomes stupid so efficiency vs $$, and money trumps today. Start a small generator when running AC or plug in. KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid)
> DC AC http://www.dcairco.com/index.php/products/trucks/dc-13000
>
> Wheels-Tires: Previous owner bought new 16.5 wheels and hard to find now. The ones I have are way too old to drive on. I know the Alcoas are pretty and all that, but functionality is first on my list. I have not seen a posting on any GMC steel 16s made, or any pics of good looking ones. Dont want to mess with the offset so in my mind, offset is more important than simple clearance. May not be a relevant on a truck as sports cars, but the physics is the same. Anyone weigh the difference between a well made 16 steel and the Alcoas?
>
> All I can come up with now..
>
> Jack
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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