Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Exhaust Headers
| [GMCnet] Exhaust Headers [message #195254] |
Tue, 08 January 2013 23:37  |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
|
|
G'day,
I am heading back to Houston in February to work on the projects I have over there when the temperatures are cool enough not to
cause me to wilt by noon.
One of the things on my TTD list is to assemble the 455 Paterson engine that came out of a burned GMC up in Canada. I intend to take
it to a shop to have it run / tuned on a dyno.
I was thinking about running it with exhaust manifolds and then with headers to compare the torque / horsepower of both.
I seem to remember reading that there are two different companies that make headers for the GMC. One set require the removal of the
header on the driver side to replace the governor, the second does not.
Questions:
1) Am I correct?
2) If yes which ones don't require removal to R&R the transmission governor?
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Exhaust Headers [message #195258 is a reply to message #195254] |
Tue, 08 January 2013 23:54  |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Rob,
We stock the Thorley and the Doug's , both are almost spitting image of one
another.
Doug's has a larger opening at the exhaust ports.
These units are designed for low end torque and if tested, an open end
might not show data that is worth publishing unless you consult with them
to see how to duplicate a condition that is similar to how we use it .
Just by design, it has been been proven on dynos that from 2,000-3,400rpm,
there is gain.
It would be interesting to see your data.
On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 9:37 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> G'day,
>
> I am heading back to Houston in February to work on the projects I have
> over there when the temperatures are cool enough not to
> cause me to wilt by noon.
>
> One of the things on my TTD list is to assemble the 455 Paterson engine
> that came out of a burned GMC up in Canada. I intend to take
> it to a shop to have it run / tuned on a dyno.
>
> I was thinking about running it with exhaust manifolds and then with
> headers to compare the torque / horsepower of both.
>
> I seem to remember reading that there are two different companies that
> make headers for the GMC. One set require the removal of the
> header on the driver side to replace the governor, the second does not.
>
> Questions:
>
> 1) Am I correct?
> 2) If yes which ones don't require removal to R&R the transmission
> governor?
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> USAussie - Downunder
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Exhaust Headers [message #195260 is a reply to message #195258] |
Wed, 09 January 2013 00:16 |
|
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Jim,
So to clarify the situation BOTH sets require that the driver side header be removed to remove and replace the transmission
governor?
YES or NO.
If the exhaust ports are the same size or a bit bigger than the exhaust ports in the heads that's fine, if you're saying that one
set has a flange with ports smaller than the exhaust ports in the heads that's NOT so fine.
There are two dyno runs that JimB and DrewK did when they were developing the Kryptonite cam back in 2004 on the Coop website. You
can find the runs here:
http://www.gmccoop.com/koba_built_motors.htm
You have to scroll down a fair way to find them.
I put together this spreadsheet from that data:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p40002-manifolds-vs-headers-4.html
If you have some other dyno runs I'd be happy to add them to the spreadsheet.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Kanomata
Rob,
We stock the Thorley and the Doug's , both are almost spitting image of one
another.
Doug's has a larger opening at the exhaust ports.
These units are designed for low end torque and if tested, an open end
might not show data that is worth publishing unless you consult with them
to see how to duplicate a condition that is similar to how we use it .
Just by design, it has been been proven on dynos that from 2,000-3,400rpm,
there is gain.
It would be interesting to see your data.
Jim
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Exhaust Headers [message #195265 is a reply to message #195260] |
Wed, 09 January 2013 06:03 |
Steven Ferguson
Messages: 3447
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Rob,
If you have them, try a set of stock cast iron manifolds also.
On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 11:16 PM, Rob Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>wrote:
> Jim,
>
> So to clarify the situation BOTH sets require that the driver side header
> be removed to remove and replace the transmission
> governor?
>
> YES or NO.
>
> If the exhaust ports are the same size or a bit bigger than the exhaust
> ports in the heads that's fine, if you're saying that one
> set has a flange with ports smaller than the exhaust ports in the heads
> that's NOT so fine.
>
> There are two dyno runs that JimB and DrewK did when they were developing
> the Kryptonite cam back in 2004 on the Coop website. You
> can find the runs here:
>
> http://www.gmccoop.com/koba_built_motors.htm
>
> You have to scroll down a fair way to find them.
>
> I put together this spreadsheet from that data:
>
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p40002-manifolds-vs-headers-4.html
>
> If you have some other dyno runs I'd be happy to add them to the
> spreadsheet.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Kanomata
>
> Rob,
> We stock the Thorley and the Doug's , both are almost spitting image of one
> another.
> Doug's has a larger opening at the exhaust ports.
> These units are designed for low end torque and if tested, an open end
> might not show data that is worth publishing unless you consult with them
> to see how to duplicate a condition that is similar to how we use it .
> Just by design, it has been been proven on dynos that from 2,000-3,400rpm,
> there is gain.
> It would be interesting to see your data.
>
> Jim
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Take care,
Steve
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Exhaust Headers [message #195268 is a reply to message #195265] |
Wed, 09 January 2013 07:14 |
|
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Steve,
That is my intention.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Steven Ferguson
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 11:03 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Exhaust Headers
Rob,
If you have them, try a set of stock cast iron manifolds also.
Take care,
Steve
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Exhaust Headers [message #195276 is a reply to message #195268] |
Wed, 09 January 2013 09:30 |
Neil
Messages: 271
Registered: July 2007
Location: Los Angeles and Magalia, ...
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Rob
If you are looking for dyno runs, you posted mine for me several years ago. Thorley headers, Jasper roller cam motor (v3).
Best
Neil
Neil
76 Eleganza now sold
Los Angeles
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Exhaust Headers [message #195282 is a reply to message #195276] |
Wed, 09 January 2013 10:24 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Both Doug's and Thorley require the header to be loosened up to change the
Trans, governor.
Doug's have the lorger port and same size pipes, so it is at the flange
that the late Joe Mondello demanded Doug's to do it his way. Dick Patterson
has always been on Thorley to do that , but they had not.
The Thorley Headers were developed for the GMC when Jerry Jarden had a
GMCand made one up for his 403 engine,
Jerry also came up with the mandrel bent 3" exhaust system which we have
copied since he quit producing them.
On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 7:30 AM, Neil Martin <nmartin@hfbllp.com> wrote:
>
>
> Rob
>
> If you are looking for dyno runs, you posted mine for me several years
> ago. Thorley headers, Jasper roller cam motor (v3).
>
> Best
>
> Neil
> --
> Neil
> 76 Eleganza
> Los Angeles
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Exhaust Headers [message #195397 is a reply to message #195377] |
Fri, 11 January 2013 16:25 |
|
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Frank,
As I understand header design the idea is to have the individual cylinder exhaust pulses reach the collector in sequential firing
order so that each pulse pulls the one behind it. I can understand in a vehicle that can be difficult and compromises have to be
made to fit them in the space available.
Thanks for the info on Mark. The engine and trans that are currently in Double Trouble work just fine. I want to tune the Paterson
engine before I install it. It will be installed along with a switch pitch transmission with Power Drive that Manny built for me and
a 3.21 to 1 final drive.
As noted in another message I have a grandiose plan of:
1) Run engine with carb and manifolds
2) Run engine with carb and Doug's Headers
3) Run engine with EFI and manifold
4) Run engine with EFI and Doug's Headers
I have not picked the EFI system yet, however, based on my experience with the four barrel Holley Commander 950 system that's on The
Blue Streak here in Australia I will probably go for a four barrel EFI system.
There is one other additional factor; I need to find out what all that testing will cost. It might be more than I am willing to
spend to satisfy my curiosity about how all the above configurations will perform.
Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Frank Condos
Rob,
Just a couple of points that may (or not) add to the subject.
1, I had the opportunity to talk with Jerry Jardine, the header designer, way back when he gave Western States a seminar. I asked
him what rpm range he chose. His reply "not so much tuning as making them fit"
Second point: A number of us Westerner have used the Dyno Shop in Santee CA for chassis dyno runs and tuning. Chuck Botts arranged
a series of tests for 10 or so GMCer, I and others have had dyno tunning. You might contact Mark Macneil, the owner at
www.thedynoshop.com He uses an eddy currant chassis dyno.
I have most of the dyno runs in hard copy, if there is interest maybe I can figure a way to share it.
Frank
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Exhaust Headers [message #195411 is a reply to message #195254] |
Fri, 11 January 2013 22:52 |
 |
jaholland
Messages: 565
Registered: June 2010
Location: Sweet Home Alebamy
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
JimK;
This Morning I installed the RemFlex Gaskets
On Our '78 E;eganza II 403 With Thorley Headers ~
Man, What A Difference ~
I have previously used Copper and Fel Pro Header
Gaskets ~
But
This Installation Process Went Wel and I Impressed
With The RemFlex ~
Thanks For The Heads Up and The Fast Service
~ Joe ~
/_]*[__][] *[__|] ~ * '73 TZE063V101887 "
"
O----------OO--]* ~ '78 TZE168V100234 "
"
" Joe & Lavelle " "
"
'sweet home alebamy'
[Updated on: Fri, 11 January 2013 22:55] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Exhaust Headers [message #195415 is a reply to message #195411] |
Sat, 12 January 2013 13:23 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 8:52 PM, J A Holland <acts238bishop@yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>
>
>
> JimK;
>
> ~ I
> This Morning I installed the RenFlex Gaskets
> On Our '78 403 With Thorley Headers ~
> Man, What A Difference ~
>
> I have previously used Copper and Fel Pro
> But The Installation Prosedss Went Well
> and I Am Impressed With The RemFlex ~
>
> Thanks For The Fast Service
>
> ~ Joe ~
>
> --
> /_]*[__][] *[__|] ~ * '73 TZE063V101887 ""
> O----------OO--]* ~ '78 TZE168V100234 ""
> " Joe & Lavelle " ""
> 'sweet home alebamy'
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 8:52 PM, J A Holland <acts238bishop@yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>
>
>
> JimK;
>
> ~ I
> This Morning I installed the RenFlex Gaskets
> On Our '78 403 With Thorley Headers ~
> Man, What A Difference ~
>
> I have previously used Copper and Fel Pro
> But The Installation Prosedss Went Well
> and I Am Impressed With The RemFlex ~
>
> Thanks For The Fast Service
>
> ~ Joe ~
>
> --
> /_]*[__][] *[__|] ~ * '73 TZE063V101887 ""
> O----------OO--]* ~ '78 TZE168V100234 ""
> " Joe & Lavelle " ""
> 'sweet home alebamy'
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Exhaust Headers [message #195416 is a reply to message #195415] |
Sat, 12 January 2013 13:33 |
jimk
Messages: 6734
Registered: July 2006
Location: Belmont, CA
Karma: 9
|
Senior Member |
|
|
To be sure, re torque the Remflex gasket after you put on few hundred miles.
I personally have not had much personal experience with the Remflex, so I
need to get more feedback.
Remflex is a much thicker gasket made from a different type of material and
we warranty them for over thestandard one year.
On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 11:23 AM, Jim Kanomata <jimkanomata@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 8:52 PM, J A Holland <acts238bishop@yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> JimK;
>>
>> ~ I
>> This Morning I installed the RenFlex Gaskets
>> On Our '78 403 With Thorley Headers ~
>> Man, What A Difference ~
>>
>> I have previously used Copper and Fel Pro
>> But The Installation Prosedss Went Well
>> and I Am Impressed With The RemFlex ~
>>
>> Thanks For The Fast Service
>>
>> ~ Joe ~
>>
>> --
>> /_]*[__][] *[__|] ~ * '73 TZE063V101887 ""
>> O----------OO--]* ~ '78 TZE168V100234 ""
>> " Joe & Lavelle " ""
>> 'sweet home alebamy'
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 8:52 PM, J A Holland <acts238bishop@yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> JimK;
>>
>> ~ I
>> This Morning I installed the RenFlex Gaskets
>> On Our '78 403 With Thorley Headers ~
>> Man, What A Difference ~
>>
>> I have previously used Copper and Fel Pro
>> But The Installation Prosedss Went Well
>> and I Am Impressed With The RemFlex ~
>>
>> Thanks For The Fast Service
>>
>> ~ Joe ~
>>
>> --
>> /_]*[__][] *[__|] ~ * '73 TZE063V101887 ""
>> O----------OO--]* ~ '78 TZE168V100234 ""
>> " Joe & Lavelle " ""
>> 'sweet home alebamy'
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
> jimk@appliedairfilters.com
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk@appliedairfilters.com
www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Thu Oct 03 07:22:46 CDT 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.01001 seconds
|
GMCforum
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
