Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » The Ultimate All-In-One 240V, 50 Amp AC/DC Distribution Panel with built-in Charge Wizard® (Anyone have one ??)
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| Re: The Ultimate All-In-One 240V, 50 Amp AC/DC Distribution Panel with built-in Charge Wizard® [message #192009 is a reply to message #192007] |
Sun, 02 December 2012 19:30   |
A Hamilto
Messages: 4508
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 39
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| SteveW wrote on Sun, 02 December 2012 19:07 |
Well... now I really don't know if Rob or Matt are correct. Maybe both. I'll do some investigating. I expect to find 120v on one wire, 120V on another, neutral, and ground. I have a four prong plug.
But Rob... that's one fine power panel. I don't think I'll go that fancy... but it's been known to happen before.
Steve W
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Whether on generator OR shore power, you should find 120VAC BETWEEN one hot wire and neutral, 120VAC BETWEEN the other hot wire and neutral, and (in an ideal universe) no voltage BETWEEN neutral and ground.
If running on generator, you would measure about 0VAC between one hot wire and the other hot wire. If running on shore power supplied by a double pole breaker, you would measure about 240VAC between one hot wire and the other hot wire.
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| Re: [GMCnet] The Ultimate All-In-One 240V, 50 Amp AC/DC Distribution Panel with built-in Charge Wiza [message #192012 is a reply to message #192002] |
Sun, 02 December 2012 20:30 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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Rob,
If your Avion "50 amp" cord is wired anything like the GM upfitted coach "50 amp" shore power cord, the input breakers are 40 amp... each.
Interesting to note that with a true 240v 50amp service there is much less current being carried on the neutral wire. That is why many "stove" power cords use a lighter gauge wire for the neutral... this is not very good for RV applications.
with a true 240v 50amp set up there is 120v from each hot compared to neutral but the hot legs are opposite in phase. Think opposite polarity... kind of, giving you 240v between the two legs.
So with all 120v equipment in your coach (wired up in a balanced way):
-- The current comes in one leg and out to and through the equipment connected to that side.
-- The current then "touches base" with the neutral leg but instead of going back to the power company on the neutral line, it goes through the equipment powered by the other hot leg before returning through the second hot line of the cord and back to the power company. When connected to a 240v circuit, it is possible (but unlikely) to have NO current flowing on the neutral line. But when using equipment on each leg the power being carried by the neutral line is always LESS than the total on the hot legs. This is why you want to wire a second AC to the leg opposite the one your first ac is powered by.
When the same cord is connected to a 120v set-up (like most of our gensets) the hot legs are in phase. (120v from hot to neutral but 0v between the two hots.) So _ALL_ current is being returned on the neutral line, this is always the TOTAL current of BOTH of your hot legs. In theory this could be up to 80 amps and why you do NOT want to use a stove power cord with the undersized neutral wire.
Just for your info...
| Robert Mueller wrote on Sun, 02 December 2012 15:52 |
Matt,
Maybe!
Here's what I think I know:
The Avion has a 50 amp power cord with four wires:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/random-photos/p46646-avion-120-vac1.html
The red wire supplies 120 vac - connected to a 20 amp circuit breaker
The black wire supplies 120 vac - connected to a 20 amp circuit breaker
The white wire is neutral
The green wire is ground
This box does the same thing.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Colie
No Rob,
It is what gets called 3-wire 240. This means that the feed is 3 lines but it is 2 hot leads each separated from the neutral by
120V. L1 - 120V - N - 120V - L2.
Since the service breakers are attached to one of the L-numbers only, they only see 120VAC.
That got ya - Mate?
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Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] The Ultimate All-In-One 240V, 50 Amp AC/DC Distribution Panel with built-in Charge Wiza [message #192017 is a reply to message #192007] |
Sun, 02 December 2012 21:02 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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On our coaches, the Onan genset has ONLY 120V (nominal)
output. This output is connected to BOTH "hot" terminals
of its output receptacle. Our power cord (and the coach)
are wired to run on EITHER that power OR the split output
of shore power that is 120-0-120 (240 V split) and goes
to TWO separate branches. Unless a specific 240 V device
has been added to the coach, the full 240 V is NOT applied
anywhere. It all works transparently in practice. Plug
your power cable into the "240 V" shore pedestal or your
generator output receptacle.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ~ TZE166V101966 ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
______________
*[ ]~~~[][ ][|\
*--OO--[]---O-*
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: steve.weinstock@cox.net
> Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2012 19:07:45 -0600
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] The Ultimate All-In-One 240V, 50 Amp AC/DC Distribution Panel with built-in Charge Wizard®
>
> Well... now I really don't know if Rob or Matt are correct. Maybe both. I'll do some investigating. I expect to find 120v on one wire, 120V on another, neutral, and ground. I have a four prong plug.
>
> But Rob... that's one fine power panel. I don't think I'll go that fancy... but it's been known to happen before.
>
> Steve W
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| Re: [GMCnet] The Ultimate All-In-One 240V, 50 Amp AC/DC Distribution Panel with built-in Charge Wiza [message #192025 is a reply to message #192007] |
Sun, 02 December 2012 22:24 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Steve,
I'm sure Matt is correct; I'm the one that's Electrically Challenged! ;-)
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve Weinstock
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 12:08 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet]The Ultimate All-In-One 240V, 50 Amp AC/DC Distribution Panel with built-in Charge WizardR
Well... now I really don't know if Rob or Matt are correct. Maybe both. I'll do some investigating. I expect to find 120v on one
wire, 120V on another, neutral, and ground. I have a four prong plug.
But Rob... that's one fine power panel. I don't think I'll go that fancy... but it's been known to happen before.
Steve W
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] The Ultimate All-In-One 240V, 50 Amp AC/DC Distribution Panel with built-in Charge Wiza [message #192050 is a reply to message #192002] |
Mon, 03 December 2012 08:18 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| Robert Mueller wrote on Sun, 02 December 2012 18:52 |
Matt,
Maybe!
Here's what I think I know:
The Avion has a 50 amp power cord with four wires:
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/random-photos/p46646-avion-120-vac1.html
The red wire supplies 120 vac - connected to a 20 amp circuit breaker
The black wire supplies 120 vac - connected to a 20 amp circuit breaker
The white wire is neutral
The green wire is ground
This box does the same thing.
Regards,
Rob M.
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Rob,
You've clearly got your arms around it, but you need to get a couple of screws in so it stays together......
The Avion provided diagram is real good.
The 40 amp breaker for the main is a Double Pole breaker. It is for the power in both the red and the black wire, but separately.
Over Current on either circuit can trip it.
If it is open, they are both open.
That supplies the power to the buss bars that go to each side.
So, there is a 40 amp main breaker feeding 2ea - 20amp breakers.
If you needed extra circuits, that panel is a Square D QO laod center, and you could replace any of the 20 amp breakers with a dual breaker.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] The Ultimate All-In-One 240V, 50 Amp AC/DC Distribution Panel with built-in Charge Wiza [message #192057 is a reply to message #192027] |
Mon, 03 December 2012 09:34 |
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mike miller
Messages: 3576
Registered: February 2004
Location: Hillsboro, Oregon
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Rob,
Your (Avion installed) input breaker is a different design from the one GM installed, but it is a 40amp breaker on each side. the difference is that instead of two handles pinned together, your breaker only has a single handle.
Functionally the same.
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
More Sidekicks than GMC's and a late model Malibu called 'Boo'
http://m000035.blogspot.com
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| Re: [GMCnet] The Ultimate All-In-One 240V, 50 Amp AC/DC Distribution Panel with built-in Charge Wiza [message #192134 is a reply to message #192057] |
Mon, 03 December 2012 19:02 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Matt, Ken, Mike,
Here's what I think I understand.
Reference: http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/avion-circuit-breaker-panel/p46677-double-trouble-cb-pane.html
The number on the single handled breaker is 40. It is the Main breaker as labeled.
Subsequent to this photo I removed the stickers above the C/B's put Dymo labels under them
From left to right they are:
1) Water Heater
2) Rear Air Conditioner
3 & 4) Main (Dual C/B)
5) Wall Plugs
6) Front Air Conditioner
Reference: http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/member-galleries/p41975-avion-120vac-schematic.htm
On the schematic in the box that represents the Load Center there are three rows:
Row 1) A rectangle with five black dots and connecting white wires. From left to right the white wires connect to:
A/C - Front A/C
A/C - Rear A/C
Water heater
Power cable plug
Wall plugs
I understand this to be the Neutral.
Row 2) Two empty rectangles
I understand these to be the power busses.
Row 3) A row of black dots grouped in twos from left to right which are connected to black wires connecting to:
Water Heater
Rear A/C
Black wire from the Power Cable
Red wire from the Power Cable
Wall Plugs
Front A/C
The middle two are power input from the Power Cable or Onan when the Power Cable is plugged into the 50 AMP RECEPTACLE in the CORD
STORAGE BOX.
The Black wire from the Power Cable supplies 120vac to the left breaker of the Dual C/B. That side of the Dual C/B supplies up to 20
amps of 120vac to the Water Heater and Rear A/C.
The Red wire from the Power Cable supplies 120vac to the right breaker of the Dual C/B. That side of the Dual C/B supplies up to 20
amps of 120vac to the Wall Plugs and Front A/C.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Colie
Rob,
You've clearly got your arms around it, but you need to get a couple of screws in so it stays together......
The Avion provided diagram is real good.
The 40 amp breaker for the main is a Double Pole breaker. It is for the power in both the red and the black wire, but separately.
Over Current on either circuit can trip it.
If it is open, they are both open.
That supplies the power to the buss bars that go to each side.
So, there is a 40 amp main breaker feeding 2ea - 20amp breakers.
If you needed extra circuits, that panel is a Square D QO laod center, and you could replace any of the 20 amp breakers with a dual
breaker.
Matt
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Burton
That is not the same breaker box that GMC used.
What is the number on the handle of the middle breaker?
I believe the middle breaker is a double breaker in your picture. If the middle breaker it is a double breaker (with a single
handle) then that is for both sides of the 240 or two 120 volt circuits and it is your main breaker.
--
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Miller
Rob,
Your (Avion installed) input breaker is a different design from the one GM installed, but it is a 40amp breaker on each side. the
difference is that instead of two handles pinned together, your breaker only has a single handle.
Functionally the same.
Mike
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GMCnet mailing list
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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