Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] GMC information
| [GMCnet] GMC information [message #188261] |
Thu, 25 October 2012 19:32  |
Gerald Work
Messages: 102
Registered: June 2010
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There actually are nine types of non profit orgs defined in section 501(c) of the IRScode numbered 1 thru 9. All allow the org to be exempt from fed income tax, but only 501(c)3 allows the donations to also be tax deductible by the donor. To be granted 501(c)3 status, the org must prove to the IRS that, among other things, it is relieving the "burdens" of government. Hard for an org like ours to achieve that.
Jerry
Jerry Work
The Dovetail Joint
Fine furniture designed & hand crafted
in the 1907 former Masonic Temple building
in historic Kerby, OR
Http://jerrywork.com
..........
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 12:14:02 -0600
From: Emery Stora <emerystora@mac.com>
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] GMC Information (was GMCphotos website
information)
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Message-ID: <909AA7C6-CEB2-4C9C-9C25-1C8EE30BF3D5@mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Oct 25, 2012, at 8:39 AM, Thomas Phipps wrote:
>
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> CASH, dinero, etc. This will take good old cash to set-up and maintain. Anyone willing to step-up and collect initial cash donations. Set up as non-profit, so cash is tax deduction?
The tax code does not allow this unless the non-profit organization is a charity or a religious group.
Most, if not all, of the various GMC clubs are non-profit but donations to them are not tax deductible.
Emery Stora
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC information [message #188307 is a reply to message #188261] |
Fri, 26 October 2012 06:31  |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Well, dog clubs do so by maintaining funds for rescue, and/or running formal breed rescues thereby relieving the poressure on county shelters. Maybe the concept of keeping GMCs out of landfills might be acceptable? The worst can happen is a resounding NO.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: Gerald Work <glwork@me.com>
To: "gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org" <gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 8:32 PM
Subject: [GMCnet] GMC information
There actually are nine types of non profit orgs defined in section 501(c) of the IRScode numbered 1 thru 9. All allow the org to be exempt from fed income tax, but only 501(c)3 allows the donations to also be tax deductible by the donor. To be granted 501(c)3 status, the org must prove to the IRS that, among other things, it is relieving the "burdens" of government. Hard for an org like ours to achieve that.
Jerry
Jerry Work
The Dovetail Joint
Fine furniture designed & hand crafted
in the 1907 former Masonic Temple building
in historic Kerby, OR
http://jerrywork.com/
..........
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 12:14:02 -0600
From: Emery Stora <emerystora@mac.com>
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] GMC Information (was GMCphotos website
information)
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Message-ID: <909AA7C6-CEB2-4C9C-9C25-1C8EE30BF3D5@mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Oct 25, 2012, at 8:39 AM, Thomas Phipps wrote:
>
>
> CASH, dinero, etc. This will take good old cash to set-up and maintain. Anyone willing to step-up and collect initial cash donations. Set up as non-profit, so cash is tax deduction?
The tax code does not allow this unless the non-profit organization is a charity or a religious group.
Most, if not all, of the various GMC clubs are non-profit but donations to them are not tax deductible.
Emery Stora
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC information [message #188492 is a reply to message #188261] |
Sat, 27 October 2012 23:04 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
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| Gerald Work wrote on Thu, 25 October 2012 19:32 |
There actually are nine types of non profit orgs defined in section 501(c) of the IRScode numbered 1 thru 9. All allow the org to be exempt from fed income tax, but only 501(c)3 allows the donations to also be tax deductible by the donor. To be granted 501(c)3 status, the org must prove to the IRS that, among other things, it is relieving the "burdens" of government. Hard for an org like ours to achieve that.
Jerry
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The IRS is really cracking down on 501(c)3 organizations. The museum I am on the board of directors for just had an IRS audit. We came out OK but based on the information we got from the auditor, and from the 501(c)3 expert at a major accounting firm (it helps to have a retired auditing firm partner on our board) the IRS is getting really rigid on what constitutes "public benefit". They are applying what looks like Sorbains/Oxley (spelling not correct) standards for public corporations to 501(c)3's. The first several pages of the tax form are just questions designed to test for compliance to the standards. Based on what we heard I suspect some similar organizations in the area are in trouble if they get audited. Our board had a long session with our tax expert and our brains were fried when we got done.
Bottom line is that it would be more than difficult to have a GMCMH operation to qualify for 501(c)3, especially with the new focus on "public benefit".
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC information [message #188511 is a reply to message #188261] |
Sun, 28 October 2012 09:05 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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Just trying to make a few comments about my experience with creating and operating a 'cult' community on the internet. I'm not suggesting anything, only relaying my experiences FYI.
I was involved with a metalshaping group that started back in 2000. We were a Yahoo.com group and email only. About 2002 Yahoo decided to change their rules and no longer archive photos. We had a member that was a webmaster and offered to set up a forum. I was one of the folks who resisted that effort because I liked my email. Eventually overruled, I quickly discovered the advantages of forums. We also decided to become a non-profit.
We hired a lawyer (in Illinois) and created the 501C corporation. We had a board of directors (I was one of the founding board members) and had a treasurer that maintained the checking account. A CPA did the yearly corporate taxes. All this was funded by a yearly gathering.
We're not talking about a lot of money here. Less than $1000 out the door plus whatever the monthly webmaster charges. More on that later.
Some years later, there was a large split in the metalshaping community over some unethical practices and different views of the future. I was one of the folks who left. Three of us decided to start our own forum where we could define the rules.
We chose Vbulletin forum software (VBB) which is the most popular in the world. A lifetime fee is about $250. Then you need a Internet Service Provider. We currently are using InMotion Hosting and have a VPS (Virtual Packet Server). I don't really understand what VPS means but basically it 'APPEARS' that we have a dedicated server. It costs about $50/month for plenty of bandwidth and disc space. We have 1500 Gbyte of monthly data transfer and 80 gbyte of disc space. We have over 800 active users (logged on at least once in in the past 6 months) and have never even put a dent in our monthly limits. The VBB software is easy to manage. We hired a webmaster to install it and then I basically designed the structure with the subjects we want to be able to discuss.
You can go to http://allmetalshaping.com and get a sense of how it is laid out. As a guest you cannot see all the forum....only about 5% of the whole and only a few photos. We REQUIRE each member to register, give us "A" real name and location, and post an introduction to the group. This is manually approved and the new user is then given full access to the site and can post. Any spammer that registers can only post in a couple forums and the post cannot be seen by the members. Basically only myself and the other two owners can see the new introductions and we delete the spammers and approve the good guys. It takes about 10 minutes a day.
We also use a addin called StopForumSpam which is a tremendous free resource. New registrations are 'filtered' by StopForumSpam and if they are known spammers by email address, IP (internet protocol...Kind of your street address), or user name, they are blocked from registering. We used to get 20 or so spam registrations a day and that fell to about 1 every few months because they won't wast the time to do the manual stuff we require.
VBB has a built in photo library and both the photos and the forums can be indexed and organized any way you want with sub forums and sub sub forums. Think if it as a file cabinet drawer that everyone can see into. The forum is the drawer. In the drawer are sections by subject matter. Within each section are hanging folders. Each new post can be put automatically within the hanging folder desired.
If I were to do something for the GMC community, I'd recommend using a basic layout similar to the maintenance manual chapters. That way, if someone has a question about the Onan, they'd go to that area. It's actually really simple. Different...but simple. It's not even difficult to be an administrator. The advantages of a structure like this is that you can easily organize content so it can be found. Significant posts can be made 'sticky' so that they are on the top of the list.
Chat areas, rally areas, etc would easily be created and folks would post their content and photos in the same area.
We chose to fund the AllMetalShaping site out of our pockets. We want no donations, no fees, no paperwork, no tax records, no IRS forms or audits, no CPA, etc. It cost the three of us about $200 each to get the software installed and purchase the software, and about $200 a year each to keep it going. The ISP does daily backups and I do a periodic backup and copy to the ISP server AND offsite to my home PC. (Sooner or later, you WILL loose data). We make the rules, we boot people who don't follow them (4 people in 4 years). The site is basically self policing. Occasionally we move posts to the correct area and members pretty quickly learn not to hijack threads...as much.
We think of ourselves as benevolent dictators, our goal is to provide a place where people can talk about how to shape metal. Photos are an integral part of the discussion and we are every bit as passionate as the GMC community. There are events held around the country where people open their shops and folks come in and 'play' for a while...from a day to a week.. These events are funded by donations and, so far, everyone has broken even.
Advantages to the forum approach:
In another thread, Ken Henderson described that he preferred the email approach because he can easily drop the messages he wants in an appropriate folder for later searching. That is great for Ken but doesn't help the new guy at all. As a new member sticking their head in the GMC door, I'm OVERWHELMED by the data. I'm used to drinking from a firehose but in the GMC world, it's more like drinking from a dozen firehoses at once because it is really, really, REALLY to find answers to the multitude of questions all new owners/members will have and the dozens of different sites all with pieces of the puzzle cleverly buried therein. With a forum approach, the data is organized ONCE and it is then done for EVERYONE...now and years to come. Photos can easily be imbedded with the text. For instance, this thread:
http://allmetalshaping.com/showthread.php?t=3817&highlight=Deco
is a link to the art deco car hauler I'm going to build on the chassis of my parts coach. I THINK guests can see the photos.
Disadvantages of forums:
No email messages.
Again, not making a recommendation or trying to preach, just my experience on the Interweb pipes thinge.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC information [message #188536 is a reply to message #188511] |
Sun, 28 October 2012 14:52 |
Ken Henderson
Messages: 8726
Registered: March 2004
Location: Americus, GA
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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Kerry,
Very good writeup, and yours is a very nice web site -- I already like the
software much better than what Eugene is using for the forum.
Anyone seriously considering doing anything to revise the GMCNet needs to
"get in bed" with Patrick and Eugene. It may, indeed, be time to do
something like you're suggesting, but it would be presumptive, disruptive,
and probably counterproductive to attempt it without their full cooperation
&/or participation. They ARE the GMCNet community and have been for over
14 years (Patrick has anyway).
In the meantime, if you want information on 'most any topic, use
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/gmcnet-archive
(Granted there's a recent gap in coverage, but there's so much there, you
probably won't notice the shortage.)
As for my folders arrangement, I really don't depend on it for long term
recall -- mostly just to prioritizing reading order and as a short term
memory aid, both of which I would severely miss under a web-based system.
Ken H.
On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Kerry Pinkerton <Pinkertonk@mchsi.com>wrote:
>
>
> Just trying to make a few comments about my experience with creating and
> operating a 'cult' community on the internet. I'm not suggesting anything,
> only relaying my experiences FYI.
...
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Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
www.gmcwipersetc.com
Large Wiring Diagrams
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC information [message #188542 is a reply to message #188536] |
Sun, 28 October 2012 16:07 |
kerry pinkerton
Messages: 2565
Registered: July 2012
Location: Harvest, Al
Karma: 15
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Senior Member |
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| Ken Henderson wrote on Sun, 28 October 2012 14:52 |
...
Anyone seriously considering doing anything to revise the GMCNet needs to
"get in bed" with Patrick and Eugene. It may, indeed, be time to do
something like you're suggesting, but it would be presumptive, disruptive,
and probably counterproductive to attempt it without their full cooperation
&/or participation. They ARE the GMCNet community and have been for over
14 years (Patrick has anyway)....
|
Oh most definitely. In my 'perfect' world, there would be one unified site for questions, discussion, technical content, etc and each club would have a separate folder for club stuff.
At this point, perfect isn't going to happen. There is too much momentum and too many different formats. Migrating information into a new format would be a huge manual undertaking and I suspect there is little motivation to do so.
I was just explaining how things work, could work, and what it costs. A lot of folks think there is a huge expense in owning and operating a web site and there really isn't. I get more than my money's worth from entertainment of having the site exist.
Kerry Pinkerton - North Alabama
Had 5 over the years. Currently have a '06 Fleetwood Discovery 39L
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| Re: [GMCnet] GMC information [message #188559 is a reply to message #188511] |
Sun, 28 October 2012 17:48 |
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Kerry,
I appreciate the time you've taken you provide us with your experience and
your impressions. They are valuable.
I agree with your primary point, there are some good, 21st century forum
project in the OpenSource community and some not so open. To name a few:
phpBB, vBulletin, xenForo, IPBoard 3, SMF, MyBB, bbPress and Kunena. I, too,
an on different forums. Each have a similar look and feel. VBB isn't quite
so open though a healthy contender.
If the things every moved, I'd suggest moving to a forum for which there's a
smart phone reader. Tapatalk, for instance, which can run on iPhone, iPad,
Android, BlackBerry, and Chrome. It supports vBulletin, IPBoard, SMF,
ZenForo, MyBB, Kunema, phpBB, and bbPress. VBB isn't on the list.
I'm on several forums including one for diesels, model trains, Rving in
general, etc. As I said earlier, they each have a similar look and feel. The
magic of a forum running on one of these platforms is in the setup and
structure.
--
Byron Songer
Louisville, KY
http://www.gmceast.com
Kerry Pinkerton wrote:
> Just trying to make a few comments about my experience with creating and
> operating a 'cult' community on the internet. I'm not suggesting anything,
> only relaying my experiences FYI.
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--
Byron Songer
Full-timing to enjoy the USA
Former owner but still an admirer
GMC paint schemes at -
http://www.songerconsulting.net
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