Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » winterizing ? or observation
| winterizing ? or observation [message #187857] |
Sun, 21 October 2012 11:21  |
chasingsummer
Messages: 434
Registered: May 2011
Location: asheboro, nc
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I hooked up my old air suspension pump to my city water inlet, opened inside faucetts, and turned on pump.
I noticed that after it ran a few minutes that mostly air was coming out. With the hot and cold in bath on, I turned off cold. Now there is much more water coming out of hot side. I am wondering if now pump is forcing water out of holding tank. At first I wondered if air would bother or hurt water pump.
Any thoughts on this observation?
Thanks bgk
brian
asheboro, nc
75 eleganza, 74 build
119k miles and counting,
DOG HOUSE
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| Re: [GMCnet] winterizing ? or observation [message #187861 is a reply to message #187859] |
Sun, 21 October 2012 12:33  |
mickeysss
Messages: 1476
Registered: January 2012
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THe pipes are delicate from the outer connection to a hose hook up outside, allowing the pressure from out side to be very high can burst the pipes
inside behind the closet and other places. I was told by my po son inlaw to never put full pressure in the outlet filler from the side of the space ship.
best to fill with 5 gallon set of bottled water and a funnel maybe. or use only for gray water and have bottled inside. what do others do?
mickey
77 palm beach space ship
anaheim ca.
On Oct 21, 2012, at 9:30 AM, Emery Stora wrote:
> The water is probably coming from your holding tank but likely from the hot water heater. The water heater has a cold water inlet. When you shut off the cold water faucet you allowed more pressure to the hot water heater which would force more water out of the heater tank through the hot water faucet.
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> Emery Stora
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> On Oct 21, 2012, at 10:21 AM, brian <chasingsummer@triad.rr.com> wrote:
>
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>>
>> I hooked up my old air suspension pump to my city water inlet, opened inside faucetts, and turned on pump.
>> I noticed that after it ran a few minutes that mostly air was coming out. With the hot and cold in bath on, I turned off cold. Now there is much more water coming out of hot side. I am wondering if now pump is forcing water out of holding tank. At first I wondered if air would bother or hurt water pump.
>> Any thoughts on this observation?
>> Thanks bgk
>> --
>> brian
>> asheboro, nc
>> 75 eleganza 2 74 build
>> 118k miles and counting,
>> DOG HOUSE
>>
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| Re: [GMCnet] winterizing ? or observation [message #187862 is a reply to message #187861] |
Sun, 21 October 2012 12:43 |
habbyguy
Messages: 896
Registered: May 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Karma: 3
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| mickeysss wrote on Sun, 21 October 2012 10:33 |
best to fill with 5 gallon set of bottled water and a funnel maybe. or use only for gray water and have bottled inside. what do others do?
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I use a screw-on water filter that goes on the end of the hose when I'm filling up my holding tank. I'm still planning to install a high quality multi stage filter for drinking water need in the coach though. Using bottled water to fill up your holding tank isn't a terrible idea but you never really know what's going on inside your holding tank after 35 years in the dark.
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
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| Re: winterizing ? or observation [message #187874 is a reply to message #187857] |
Sun, 21 October 2012 15:17 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| chasingsummer wrote on Sun, 21 October 2012 12:21 |
I hooked up my old air suspension pump to my city water inlet, opened inside faucetts, and turned on pump.
I noticed that after it ran a few minutes that mostly air was coming out. With the hot and cold in bath on, I turned off cold. Now there is much more water coming out of hot side. I am wondering if now pump is forcing water out of holding tank. At first I wondered if air would bother or hurt water pump.
Any thoughts on this observation?
Thanks bgk
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Brian,
Many '73 and '74 coaches had copper water plumbing, but many have also be repaired or refit with plastic that will not take the full pressure that a suspension pump can create. So, some kind of control should be included in your winterizing set-up lest you blow up something.
Now, we also have some vocabulary problems here.
- When you say -pump- in this case, you mean the air pump - correct?
- By holding tank, you mean the fresh water tank and not the waste holding tank - true?
If the system is plumbed as designed (by anybody with any sense), there is no way that air pressure introduced through the city water connection can cause water to be forced out of the potable (fresh water) tank.
The air pressure should not be able to harm the potable water pump unless that pump is already in trouble. It has a discharge (outlet) check valve that should handle the pressure easily.
If the water heater is plumbed correctly, the inlet is at the bottom and the outlet is at the top. This makes it real hard to blow the water out of the heater. But, if you put air pressure into the system and open the water heater drain, the contents of the heater will leave quickly.
These things all being what they are, it is best to start off by draining both the potable tank and the water heater.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: winterizing ? or observation [message #187880 is a reply to message #187857] |
Sun, 21 October 2012 16:13 |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
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This may be a silly question, but is there any reason that one cannot simply run the fresh water tank dry, drain the water heater, then refill the system with 5-6 gallons of RV antifreeze. I ran this through the system until I got the pink antifreeze out of all the faucets, toilet, and shower hose.
It seems to me that the system should now be prepared for the winter. With the RV antifreeze for sale at $2/gallon, it seems like an easy way to prepare for winter, rather than getting to all the drain fittings in the coach. I don't have a city water hookup to blow the lines out.
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: winterizing ? or observation [message #187882 is a reply to message #187880] |
Sun, 21 October 2012 16:43 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| GeorgeRud wrote on Sun, 21 October 2012 17:13 |
This may be a silly question, but is there any reason that one cannot simply run the fresh water tank dry, drain the water heater, then refill the system with 5-6 gallons of RV antifreeze. I ran this through the system until I got the pink antifreeze out of all the faucets, toilet, and shower hose.
It seems to me that the system should now be prepared for the winter. With the RV antifreeze for sale at $2/gallon, it seems like an easy way to prepare for winter, rather than getting to all the drain fittings in the coach. I don't have a city water hookup to blow the lines out.
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George,
I guess I am surprised that you said "silly".
This is what most people do. If the valves aren't there (I have put them in many client's boats), then you have to get a hose to make the pump suck out of the jug.
If you are doing this, it is best to have the by-pass kit on the hot water heater - that saves six gallons of anti-freeze - then drain that and the potable tank before you start.
The thing I find RV people frequently forget is that the city water connection has a check valve in it and that whole section of the system will not be protected unless you go out to it, with the potable pump live, and poke the check valve open until red stuff runs out (all over you and the coach side).
People blow out potable systems because:
- It requires almost no antifreeze. (I haven't used all of the two gallons I bought six years ago.)
- It makes spring refit much more simple. (Unless you don't clear the valve on the toilet.)
- There is no issue with getting the remaining anti-freeze out of the system before the end of the season.
- The alternative of using cheap vodka is still sort of expensive.
An engineer friend used to set up hoses and buckets and collect the "Red Pop" from his water system and check its SG and reuse it if it was still close.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: winterizing ? or observation [message #187887 is a reply to message #187857] |
Sun, 21 October 2012 17:10 |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Karma: 0
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After trying to drain and still have problems after last winter, I like the idea of simply filling with antifreeze. Don't have to crawl, bend, and try to find semi-inaccessible drains.
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: winterizing ? or observation [message #187892 is a reply to message #187887] |
Sun, 21 October 2012 17:52 |
chasingsummer
Messages: 434
Registered: May 2011
Location: asheboro, nc
Karma: 0
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Thanks for all the input,
I am using the air compressor that I removed from coach since it took a very long time to air up bags. I did not put a gauge on it, but pressure is there, but I am able to hold my finger over hose and stop air , so I assume pressure not large enought to hurt anything. I did not turn on til water outlets were open. I am assuming it was emptying water heater due to water coming out when cold handle off but hot on. I also notice that I think my waste tank is close to full. On our last trip I hooked up at pump out and let it run a little bit. Waster valve open, water coming in city side, with wife holding toilet floor lever open to flush.
Is there some type of overflow on top of waste tank? after i saw water on ground I turned off pump, couple hours later ground no longer wet? Water on ground was seen at drivers rear wheels. under sink in kitchen was dry whe ground was not. most my plumbing appears to me some type of pastice pipe, I know based of water pump cycling that I do have a small leak that I asume is near warter tank,
addition input is always appreciated as I continue to learn
Thanks bgk
brian
asheboro, nc
75 eleganza, 74 build
119k miles and counting,
DOG HOUSE
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| Re: winterizing ? more ? [message #187893 is a reply to message #187892] |
Sun, 21 October 2012 17:55 |
chasingsummer
Messages: 434
Registered: May 2011
Location: asheboro, nc
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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RV antifreeze. I can umderstand pooring it in on city side and running faucetts til I see. I am relating this to motor antifreeze. Am I wrong, is it different?
Is there an issue with flushing this out is spring so that fresh water is safe to drink? Do we just flush this with waste or do we recover??
Thanks
brian
asheboro, nc
75 eleganza, 74 build
119k miles and counting,
DOG HOUSE
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| Re: winterizing ? or observation [message #187894 is a reply to message #187857] |
Sun, 21 October 2012 18:01 |
GeorgeRud
Messages: 1380
Registered: February 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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As the RV antifreeze would end up in the black water tank, I wouldn't reuse RV antifreeze. In the springtime, I think you just have to flush out the system with fresh water. Bleach is often added as a sterilizing agent as well.
BTW, RV antifreeze is propylene glycol (rather non-toxic), while automotive antifreeze is generally the extremely toxic ethylene glycol. Keep that away from kids, pets, and anyone else you don't want to poison.
George Rudawsky
Chicago, IL
75 Palm Beach
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| Re: winterizing ? or observation [message #187897 is a reply to message #187857] |
Sun, 21 October 2012 19:25 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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because I live up where it gets stupid cold. I am always nervous about winterizing the GMC, or RV. or even my cars, pressure washer, ect..
so I have just a couple things to add, food for thought:
there are two types of pink RV antifreeze.
I think it is argumentative on witch one of the two to buy. one is more expensive. It really does not matter to me the differences.
Pink antifreeze will freeze. I see it all the time. but the deal with it, is it is not supposed to expand, and crack things. the -50 on the bottle, means it is safe to use up to -50 and not crack your plumbing. some will freeze at like 10 degrees, and some might not freeze until much lower. I do not know the freezing points.
but if it is mixed with water, that temp changes. so be careful, if you are trying to keep your fresh water tanks, or your holding tanks protected, how much water was or still is in there.
per our mechanics at work, never use pink antifreeze where you would expect to have the green "auto" antifreeze. boat guys might be a little exception for pollution reasons.
now I am depressed, because I know it is going to be getting cold here, and only a month away from seeing the - numbers on the thermometer. only 35 more years before I should be able to be a "snowbird".
also in case people wonder, I blow out the lines with a regulated air compressor. keeping all faucets open. I have a bypass on the water heater. and after blowing the lines, I then pump pink RV antifreeze in until I see plenty of pink going everywhere. then I drain the black tank. (previously have super flushed out the nastyness at the RV dump before winterizing.) and I drive around town with 3" valtera valve open. the I turn on the macerator a few times for a couple seconds in the next couple days to make sure that is dry. then a week later, I shut the valtera off, and call it a winter.
I have not added antifreeze to the fresh water tank. It just usually has been drained. and the drain line is open when I am running around town.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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