Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » A fool with old school tools
A fool with old school tools [message #184743] |
Sun, 16 September 2012 16:05 |
hertfordnc
Messages: 1164 Registered: September 2009 Location: East NC
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Picked up a timing light and a multi tach/dwell/points meter thing at a flea market yesterday.
Needless to say, there were no instructions. ($15)
The dwell meter has a black, red, yellow and a pair of wires that go to a metal strip, like a bus bar.
I connected the yellow to the coil and got the tach to work.
Any guesses what the two wires to the bus bar thing are all about?
It has indications for points, dwell, and amps. But how is it connected for those functions?
As for timing marks on the engine, there aren't any that i can see. Without pulling the head, is there a way to wrench the engine to #1 TDC?
Dave & Ellen Silva
Hertford, NC
76 Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff
Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021
It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right.
[Updated on: Sun, 16 September 2012 16:06] Report message to a moderator
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Re: A fool with old school tools [message #184747 is a reply to message #184743] |
Sun, 16 September 2012 16:57 |
Craig Lechowicz
Messages: 541 Registered: October 2006 Location: Waterford, MI
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Dave,
Sounds like the strip is a shunt for the ammeter setting for the meter. Most of the automotive ones that I've seen, the shunt somehow hooks on one end to the battery post, (like with a hole in it that just presses over) and the other end to the cable. It's essentially a giant resistor of a specific value. Then, two leads come from the meter to attach to either end of the shunt and measure the voltage drop across the resistor to get to amps. Often, there is a separate jack on the meter to plug the lead in for amps. (one to the amps and the other to the black or negative). This is because the voltage drop is usually measured in hundredths or thousandths of a volt and they don't want you frying it if you are measuring something else.
On timing marks, they are darned hard to see. On mine, (A '77 455) I crawled underneath it, and turned the engine until I could find the groove in the balancer (almost like a hacksaw width notch) and painted it. The timing tab that is associated with it is a flimsy plastic piece maybe in the 1 or 2'oclock position if you were looking directly at the front of the engine. So, on the drivers side between the belts and the block, somewhat between the water pump and power steering pump. I've seen some photo's on the photo site, somewhere.
Craig Lechowicz
'77 Kingsley, Waterford, MI
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Re: [GMCnet] A fool with old school tools [message #184748 is a reply to message #184747] |
Sun, 16 September 2012 17:01 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452 Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Typing correction fluid with a little brush works very well
to mark your timing marks. It lasts a long time, but these
days you may have a hard time finding the stuff!
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
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> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: craig.lechowicz@sbcglobal.net
> Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 16:57:46 -0500
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] A fool with old school tools
>
>
>
> Dave,
> Sounds like the strip is a shunt for the ammeter setting for the meter. Most of the automotive ones that I've seen, the shunt somehow hooks on one end to the battery post, (like with a hole in it that just presses over) and the other end to the cable. It's essentially a giant resistor of a specific value. Then, two leads come from the meter to attach to either end of the shunt and measure the voltage drop across the resistor to get to amps. Often, there is a separate jack on the meter to plug the lead in for amps. (one to the amps and the other to the black or negative). This is because the voltage drop is usually measured in hundredths or thousandths of a volt and they don't want you frying it if you are measuring something else.
>
> On timing marks, they are darned hard to see. On mine, (A '77 455) I crawled underneath it, and turned the engine until I could find the groove in the balancer (almost like a hacksaw width notch) and painted it. The timing tab that is associated with it is a flimsy plastic piece maybe in the 1 or 2'oclock position if you were looking directly at the front of the engine. So, on the drivers side between the belts and the block, somewhat between the water pump and power steering pump. I've seen some photo's on the photo site, somewhere.
> --
> Craig Lechowicz
> '77 Kingsley, Waterford, MI
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Re: [GMCnet] A fool with old school tools [message #184752 is a reply to message #184748] |
Sun, 16 September 2012 17:47 |
hertfordnc
Messages: 1164 Registered: September 2009 Location: East NC
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I have not looked really hard for it but my initial search revealed no visible marks. Is there any way to position the engine to #1TDC without heroic dis-mantling ?
Dave & Ellen Silva
Hertford, NC
76 Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff
Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021
It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right.
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Re: A fool with old school tools [message #184759 is a reply to message #184756] |
Sun, 16 September 2012 18:54 |
hertfordnc
Messages: 1164 Registered: September 2009 Location: East NC
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Jim Wagner wrote on Sun, 16 September 2012 18:30 | Remove the distributer cap and turn over the motor till the rotor points at the number one post. That will get you close.
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That can't be my only option? I've already timed it by ear and vacuum and RPM but my ear is pretty untrained so I'd like to make a good reference.
Won't the push rods get slightly loose when both valves are fully closed with the piston at TDC?
Dave & Ellen Silva
Hertford, NC
76 Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff
Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021
It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right.
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Re: [GMCnet] A fool with old school tools [message #184780 is a reply to message #184748] |
Mon, 17 September 2012 04:49 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030 Registered: January 2004 Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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k2gkk wrote on Sun, 16 September 2012 17:01 |
Typing correction fluid with a little brush works very well
to mark your timing marks. It lasts a long time, but these
days you may have a hard time finding the stuff!
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WalMart has it.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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Re: A fool with old school tools [message #184796 is a reply to message #184765] |
Mon, 17 September 2012 09:35 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547 Registered: March 2007 Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Jim Wagner wrote on Sun, 16 September 2012 21:42 | <snip>
Won't the push rods get slightly loose when both valves are fully closed with the piston at TDC?
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This is true, but it is really hard to tell when they are loose with if the hydraulic lash adjusters are in any kind of good condition. And, with the difficulty of removing the coach valve gear covers, I think that is not a great option.
If you have to resort to such, a better choice is to watch the rockers for the cylinder 180 out. (18346572) So, of course, you would have to take of the right bank (A/C side) valve gear cover.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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Re: A fool with old school tools [message #184799 is a reply to message #184796] |
Mon, 17 September 2012 10:08 |
hertfordnc
Messages: 1164 Registered: September 2009 Location: East NC
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Hey, I found what may be a solution that ya'll might find interesting.
There is a lot of discussion of this problem among the Olds 455 boat people.
Attach a clear tube to a spark plug sized fitting and flood the cylinder with oil.
Then by wrenching the engine the oil will rise or fall in the tube and indicate minute changes in position.
The thinner the tube the more precise it will indicate.
Dave & Ellen Silva
Hertford, NC
76 Birchaven, 1-ton and other stuff
Currently planning the Great american Road Trip Summer 2021
It's gonna take a lot of Adderall to get this thing right.
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Re: [GMCnet] A fool with old school tools [message #184802 is a reply to message #184752] |
Mon, 17 September 2012 10:12 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412 Registered: May 2011 Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Sure. Remove the sparking plus so it will turn easily. Rotate it until the distributor rotor points at the #1 plug wiren (so you don't get it topped on the exhaust stroke). Put something plastic like a soda straw or the like (I use a mini-bblind rod) down the plug hole until it touches the piston. Rock the engine till the piston is at its highest point. This is sometimes easier if you tape a piece of paper under the indicator and mark the indicator with a magic marker. It's then easy to see the highest point. Hold a bit of downward pressure onm the indicator to be sure it stays against the piston. If there's a bit of perceived slop right at the top, mark the top and then back it off in the opposite direction of the running engine and slowly bring it to the mark, stopping there. That will be TDC for the engine.
--johnny
'76 23' transmoide norris
'76 palm beach
From: dave silva <admin@oldrv.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 6:47 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] A fool with old school tools
I have not looked really hard for it but my initial search revealed no visible marks. Is there any way to position the engine to #1TDC without heroic dis-mantling ?
--
Dave & Ellen Silva
1972 Revcon Olds 455, toro drive train. All Stock
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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Re: [GMCnet] A fool with old school tools [message #184812 is a reply to message #184799] |
Mon, 17 September 2012 11:19 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412 Registered: May 2011 Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Or get a P&G meter.
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: dave silva <admin@oldrv.net>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] A fool with old school tools
Hey, I found what may be a solution that ya'll might find interesting.
There is a lot of discussion of this problem among the Olds 455 boat people.
Attach a clear tube to a spark plug sized fitting and flood the cylinder with oil.
Then by wrenching the engine the oil will rise or fall in the tube and indicate minute changes in position.
The thinner the tube the more precise it will indicate.
--
Dave & Ellen Silva
1972 Revcon Olds 455, toro drive train. All Stock
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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