Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Thinkin' out loud (Tankless water heaters) GMC related
| [GMCnet] Thinkin' out loud (Tankless water heaters) GMC related [message #184314] |
Thu, 13 September 2012 14:05  |
Sammy Williams
Messages: 522
Registered: August 2010
Karma: -2
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Senior Member |
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ust thinking out loud... With tiny capacities in RV water heaters
installed in GMC motorhomes, is the installation of a tankless water
heater worth it in the GMC? I'd like
to take a shower that lasts more then 3 minutes (while at a campsite
hooked up) I know you have limits "off the grid" Which tankless water
heaters would work on an GMC?
(was looking in a home depot when I came across them...)
Sammy Williams
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| Re: [GMCnet] Thinkin' out loud (Tankless water heaters) GMC related [message #184324 is a reply to message #184322] |
Thu, 13 September 2012 15:13  |
Richard Denney
Messages: 920
Registered: April 2010
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On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 3:56 PM, D C *Mac* Macdonald <k2gkk@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Search eBay for "aquah propane" for several examples.
> I bought one, but have not had it installed yet.
>
This isn't a topic I've followed much, but the Redhead and I were on
an island near Nantucket a couple of weeks ago, and that island has no
grid power. All the (small number of) houses were equipped with small
tankless on-demand water heaters.
But I discovered that the behavior of the heater was inconsistent.
Often, during a shower, I would hear the flame go off and the water
became pretty icy pretty quick. I did a little thinking and
experimenting, and I think I understand the issue: The on-demand water
heater depends on flow to know when to turn on. They will not turn on
below a certain flow threshold. The shower was equipped with a
temperature-controlled, single-handle faucet, and I think that when
the control was set to provide comfortable levels, the flow was
somemtimes insufficient to keep the heater turned on, especially as
all the pipes got hot. The second person taking the shower would have
a worse problem than the first. (That led to unusual competition
between me and the Redhead for who got the shower first. She's
better-looking but I'm quicker.)
The heater was some Italian brand (Paloma?), and maybe they are
different in operation from the brands people have put in the
motorhome. I made it work better by turning the thermostat control on
the heater down to its lowest setting so that the valve would flow
more hot water. But I think the real answer is to provide separate hot
and cold valves on the faucet, and use the hot water at substantial
flow.
Rick "wondering if anyone who's done this has had the same issue" Denney
--
'73 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
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| Re: [GMCnet] Thinkin' out loud (Tankless water heaters) GMC related [message #184327 is a reply to message #184324] |
Thu, 13 September 2012 15:31 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Rick,
We use a tankless water heater to heat the shop in our hangar. It is a recirculating system with water running through the concrete floor. We ran into the same problem you had using the tankless.
The flow rate had to be rather high and we ended up installing double circulation pumps to get enough flow. It took about a month of tinkering with the settings on the heater to get it to fire reliably every time. In the winter we make sure someone checks it every morning to make sure that it did not get stuck overnight not running.
We have tried 3 different brands and all have had similar problems.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Thinkin' out loud (Tankless water heaters) GMC related [message #184352 is a reply to message #184324] |
Thu, 13 September 2012 17:38 |
 |
Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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| Richard Denney wrote on Thu, 13 September 2012 16:13 |
This isn't a topic I've followed much, but the Redhead and I were on an island near Nantucket a couple of weeks ago, and that island has no grid power. All the (small number of) houses were equipped with small tankless on-demand water heaters.
But I discovered that the behavior of the heater was inconsistent. Often, during a shower, I would hear the flame go off and the water became pretty icy pretty quick. I did a little thinking and experimenting, and I think I understand the issue: The on-demand water heater depends on flow to know when to turn on. They will not turn on below a certain flow threshold. The shower was equipped with a temperature-controlled, single-handle faucet, and I think that when the control was set to provide comfortable levels, the flow was somemtimes insufficient to keep the heater turned on, especially as all the pipes got hot. The second person taking the shower would have a worse problem than the first. (That led to unusual competition between me and the Redhead for who got the shower first. She's better-looking but I'm quicker.)
The heater was some Italian brand (Paloma?), and maybe they are
different in operation from the brands people have put in the
motorhome. I made it work better by turning the thermostat control on the heater down to its lowest setting so that the valve would flow more hot water. But I think the real answer is to provide separate hot and cold valves on the faucet, and use the hot water at substantial flow.
Rick "wondering if anyone who's done this has had the same issue" Denney
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Rick,
To confirm what both you and Ken have said, I have seen this situation. Of 3 demand water heaters that I installed on boats, two were removed (again by me) and replaced with engine/electric and engine/propane. The demand was always drive by wife of the couple.
The one I didn't remove? They got a divorce and she sold the boat before the next season.
Of the other two, I did lots of things to try to correct the hot/cold situation including a small accumulator on both sides hoping we could keep the flow fast enough so the fire would stay lit.
And, What the hell were you doing on Tuckernuck???
Oh, and by the way, none of those islands have "grid" power, they make their own. Not cheap either.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Thinkin' out loud (Tankless water heaters) GMC related [message #184362 is a reply to message #184352] |
Thu, 13 September 2012 19:30 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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I have a small tankless hot water heater that was designed for off the grid camping. It has a coil that is heated by a propane flame. Has a small battery water pump that pumps cold water through the coil and delivers hot water to the shower head. As long as you have propane and water flow, you have hot water.
Design could be easy to copy for remote off the grid Motorhome operation. We already have 12v water pumps, battery, and water source.
I purchased this to use when extended emergency ham radio operations. Works well and does not take much room.
Tom, KA4CSG
MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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| Re: [GMCnet] Thinkin' out loud (Tankless water heaters) GMC related [message #184416 is a reply to message #184322] |
Fri, 14 September 2012 03:34 |
mickeysss
Messages: 1476
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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HERE IT IS: sorry for yelling,
the 3.2 gpm on - demand propane gas tankless water heater, whole house - what ever that means.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AQUAH-12L-3-2-GPM-ON-DEMAND-PROPANE-GAS-TANKLESS-WATER-HEATER-WHOLE-HOUSE-/120949166201?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c2 921d079#ht_2478wt_1267
"
your right "Mac" - this is a great weight, gas saving dump the hoses and the tank and the electric.
propane lasts a long time, behind the fridge etc. I think you are thinking out loud and i can hear ya!
but thinking is soundless, so i am hearing things. ?
looks good. thank you for the idea that makes more sense in every way. it is $239.50 here on this site.
here it is pictures of it installed. thanks again.
mickey :-)
2012 = 77 palm beach
anaheim ca.
planet earth
universe
and all the parts of it as one.
which is what i call unitivity.
On Sep 13, 2012, at 12:56 PM, D C *Mac* Macdonald wrote:
>
> Search eBay for "aquah propane" for several examples.
> I bought one, but have not had it installed yet.
>
> I want to be rid of the engine coolant hoses to the
> existing original water heater and the weight of that
> heater and the water in the heater and hoses. That
> will eliminate some possible sources for leakage of
> engine coolant and subsequent possible severe engine
> damage. It will drop probably 100+ pounds of weight
> from the coach.
>
> I don't worry about the lack of immediate availability
> of hot water after shutting the engine down. I'm not
> THAT impatient!
>
> I think I bought the 16 liter (16L) version. Somebody
> can point out the web pages showing this installation
> in the refrigerator compartment.
>
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> ~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
> ~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
> ~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
> ~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
> ~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
> ~ ~ ~ ~ TZE166V101966 ~ ~ ~ ~
> ~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
> ~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> ______________
> *[ ]~~~[][ ][|\
> *--OO--[]---O-*
>
>
>
>> Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 14:05:36 -0500
>> From: bd5av8r@gmail.com
>> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
>> Subject: [GMCnet] Thinkin' out loud (Tankless water heaters) GMC related
>>
>> ust thinking out loud... With tiny capacities in RV water heaters
>> installed in GMC motorhomes, is the installation of a tankless water
>> heater worth it in the GMC? I'd like
>> to take a shower that lasts more then 3 minutes (while at a campsite
>> hooked up) I know you have limits "off the grid" Which tankless water
>> heaters would work on an GMC?
>> (was looking in a home depot when I came across them...)
>>
>> Sammy Williams
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Thinkin' out loud (Tankless water heaters) GMC related [message #184429 is a reply to message #184416] |
Fri, 14 September 2012 09:49 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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Actually, I bought the 6L version, which SHOULD
deliver 1.5873 gallons per minute of hot water.
Mixed 50/50 with the "cold" water, that should
deliver a reasonable volume to enable continuous
showering.
It ain't "yelling" when you are simply citing a
URL which MIGHT be case sensitive!
Upper case here for emphasis!
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ~ TZE166V101966 ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
______________
*[ ]~~~[][ ][|\
*--OO--[]---O-*
> From: mickeysss@me.com
> Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 01:34:43 -0700
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Thinkin' out loud (Tankless water heaters) GMC related
>
>
> HERE IT IS: sorry for yelling,
>
> the 3.2 gpm on - demand propane gas tankless water heater, whole house - what ever that means.
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AQUAH-12L-3-2-GPM-ON-DEMAND-PROPANE-GAS-TANKLESS-WATER-HEATER-WHOLE-HOUSE-/120949166201?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c2 921d079#ht_2478wt_1267
> "
> your right "Mac" - this is a great weight, gas saving dump the hoses and the tank and the electric.
>
> propane lasts a long time, behind the fridge etc. I think you are thinking out loud and i can hear ya!
>
> but thinking is soundless, so i am hearing things. ?
>
> looks good. thank you for the idea that makes more sense in every way. it is $239.50 here on this site.
>
>
> here it is pictures of it installed. thanks again.
>
> mickey :-)
>
> 2012 = 77 palm beach
>
> anaheim ca.
>
> planet earth
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| Re: [GMCnet] Thinkin' out loud (Tankless water heaters) GMC related [message #184659 is a reply to message #184429] |
Sat, 15 September 2012 22:30 |
mickeysss
Messages: 1476
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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i can't hear you, kidding,
Mac' does your on demand heater work ok, the others are saying
they don't work, i like the idea of getting out of that weight problem you point here about.
they use the same water pump right. not two pumps. You use one tank and one pump. ?
it can be used straight for say 5 or 10 minutes if needed. well 10 minutes is 15 gallons ok i know that is a long shower
but would it do it? Yours is behind the fridge right. i want to do this.
mickey
anaheim ca.
77 palm beach.
On Sep 14, 2012, at 7:49 AM, D C *Mac* Macdonald wrote:
>
> Actually, I bought the 6L version, which SHOULD
> deliver 1.5873 gallons per minute of hot water.
> Mixed 50/50 with the "cold" water, that should
> deliver a reasonable volume to enable continuous
> showering.
>
> It ain't "yelling" when you are simply citing a
> URL which MIGHT be case sensitive!
>
> Upper case here for emphasis!
>
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> ~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
> ~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
> ~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
> ~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
> ~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
> ~ ~ ~ ~ TZE166V101966 ~ ~ ~ ~
> ~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
> ~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> ______________
> *[ ]~~~[][ ][|\
> *--OO--[]---O-*
>
>
>
>> From: mickeysss@me.com
>> Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 01:34:43 -0700
>> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Thinkin' out loud (Tankless water heaters) GMC related
>>
>>
>> HERE IT IS: sorry for yelling,
>>
>> the 3.2 gpm on - demand propane gas tankless water heater, whole house - what ever that means.
>>
>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AQUAH-12L-3-2-GPM-ON-DEMAND-PROPANE-GAS-TANKLESS-WATER-HEATER-WHOLE-HOUSE-/120949166201?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c2 921d079#ht_2478wt_1267
>> "
>> your right "Mac" - this is a great weight, gas saving dump the hoses and the tank and the electric.
>>
>> propane lasts a long time, behind the fridge etc. I think you are thinking out loud and i can hear ya!
>>
>> but thinking is soundless, so i am hearing things. ?
>>
>> looks good. thank you for the idea that makes more sense in every way. it is $239.50 here on this site.
>>
>>
>> here it is pictures of it installed. thanks again.
>>
>> mickey :-)
>>
>> 2012 = 77 palm beach
>>
>> anaheim ca.
>>
>> planet earth
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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| Re: [GMCnet] Thinkin' out loud (Tankless water heaters) GMC related [message #184945 is a reply to message #184937] |
Tue, 18 September 2012 08:41 |
tphipps
Messages: 3005
Registered: August 2004
Location: Spanish Fort, AL
Karma: 9
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Senior Member |
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And Rick "The Engineer" Denny read the specs at both ends of the water flow. Fluctuating water pressures would surely interrupt the temperature of the water. Perhaps a buffer tank, but you would still have to heat its volume of water first. Always something.
Tom, MS II
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
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