| [GMCnet] the blackwater follies [message #183373] |
Thu, 06 September 2012 14:09  |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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While removing the genset from my 23' for starter repairs, I noticed a drip from the rear center of the blackwater tank. Yesterday I finally got the tank clean enough to crawl under and mess with it today. I >hope< the problem is the gate valve... it has a different 'feel' opening and closing than it did, which bolsters tht hope. Anyhow, this evening I will jack it up and crib it soundly and pull the valve and dump pipe off for inspection. I'll also do visual on the tank. Dog show sites frown on leaking blackwater. With luck, reseal the valve and I'm fat city. Without, anyone had any luck repairing a blackwater tank? The maintenance manual says the plastic isn't repairable. Does 'plastic welding' work on these? I would like to not buy a new tank this week if possible.
--johnny
'76 23" transmode norris which leaks
'76 palm beach whose tanks are untested
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] the blackwater follies [message #183380 is a reply to message #183373] |
Thu, 06 September 2012 15:04  |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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having some blackwater follies myself. Found the leak just under the rear driver side hanger for the black tank.
I was able to plastic weld it myself a bit. and then I used some epoxy on it, with some fiberglass mesh screen. I felt pretty good how that turned out. for good measure I am also coating the area with 3m 5200. but I found out that takes 7 days to cure. so it is sitting there now curing.
here is the epoxy I used:
http://www.permatex.com/products/automotive/specialized_maintenance_repair/professional_repair_systems/Permatex_Plastic_Tank_Repair_Kit.htm
I got it from another GMCer that has success with it.
also working upside down really sucks. if your leak is at the bottum of the tank. gravity made my repair really tough.
I have some pictures, and will post the rest when I am done.
however if you are dealing with the valve. and it is the original valve. Stop for a second, before tearing it apart. It is simple as one would think. Original valve stuff cannot be purchased anywhere. it might take some modifing or spending some more money and searching out more to find the original parts.
figure out where the leak is for sure before tearing into too much.
any repair to the black tank, might be temp. just depends on each situation.
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: [GMCnet] the blackwater follies [message #183382 is a reply to message #183373] |
Thu, 06 September 2012 15:14 |
Dennis S
Messages: 3046
Registered: November 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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| Johnny Bridges wrote on Thu, 06 September 2012 14:09 |
While removing the genset from my 23' for starter repairs, I noticed a drip from the rear center of the blackwater tank. Yesterday I finally got the tank clean enough to crawl under and mess with it today. I >hope< the problem is the gate valve... it has a different 'feel' opening and closing than it did, which bolsters tht hope. Anyhow, this evening I will jack it up and crib it soundly and pull the valve and dump pipe off for inspection. I'll also do visual on the tank. Dog show sites frown on leaking blackwater. With luck, reseal the valve and I'm fat city. Without, anyone had any luck repairing a blackwater tank? The maintenance manual says the plastic isn't repairable. Does 'plastic welding' work on these? I would like to not buy a new tank this week if possible.
--johnny
'76 23" transmode norris which leaks
'76 palm beach whose tanks are untested
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Johnny,
Not sure about a Norris -- here is a photo of the repair to my black tank -- there are others in the same album. The orginal Thetford valve is also shown -- I just bought a new one. It was about $65 vs $15 for a Valterra -- but I just didn't want to spend any more time making an adapter and such.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/73-painted-desert-230/p31395-0053.html
The owners manual said the black tank was polypropylene, the welder said it was polyethylene -- but it is an early 73 coach, so who knows what happened back then.
Dropping the tank was not too big a deal and it allowed me to measure for the mascerator install and more access to replace the inlets which had rusted away.
Dennis
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
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| Re: [GMCnet] the blackwater follies [message #183390 is a reply to message #183373] |
Thu, 06 September 2012 16:16 |
lqqkatjon
Messages: 2324
Registered: October 2010
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Karma: 5
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Senior Member |
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here are my pictures of my tank repair progress.
I forgot to take a picture of my plastic welding/melting.
I just took an old soldering pen, and heated up the tip with my map gas torch. and was able to gently spear the plastic of the tank by the crack together to seal it.
I am at the point when the 3m stuff cures fully. I am going to bolt the hanger back up, and hope for the best. I feel pretty good that it will not leak at that spot anymore.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6172-black-tank-repair.html
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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| Re: [GMCnet] the blackwater follies [message #183399 is a reply to message #183390] |
Thu, 06 September 2012 17:08 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Senior Member |
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Thanks. For all of yall's pictures and help. Norris decided to put a piece of sheet metal under the tank but on its supports which extends behind the valve to the crossmember. It uses two of the valve/drain bracket bolts and two smaller to hold the end to the crossmember. Since it's unremovable for several reasons, I hadda spring it down and block it to allow me to get the valve out. Which took four bolts and the center of the valve and seals came out. Made by Larden, 3 inch slicer. The seals were - at least the wet side one - pretty scurvy all around and it looks as if that's where it was leaking. The cheap (14.95) Valterra looks just like it. I'll run by Zeb's tomorrow on the way home and get another. One of the sites sez the Valterra replaces the Lardner. Quick and dirty this one's gonna be. Outside of the tank is totally dry and without streaks, so I didn't unship it. Haven't looked, but I suspect the flange for the valve
is threaded into the tank - there don't appear to be any bolts. If on inspection it's dry, I'll leave it be. If it's loose or damp, it will come out, inspect, and be replaced and the threads sealed.
Meantimes, even with the flushing, I've been wallowing in the dregs uder the coach, I'm off to the shower at Paula's request. Demand, actually.
Thanks to all for the info and suggestions!
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach
From: Jon Roche <lqqkatjon@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Thursday, September 6, 2012 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] the blackwater follies
here are my pictures of my tank repair progress.
I forgot to take a picture of my plastic welding/melting.
I just took an old soldering pen, and heated up the tip with my map gas torch. and was able to gently spear the plastic of the tank by the crack together to seal it.
I am at the point when the 3m stuff cures fully. I am going to bolt the hanger back up, and hope for the best. I feel pretty good that it will not leak at that spot anymore.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6172-black-tank-repair.html
--
75 palm beach
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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