Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Onan Points & Condenser
| [GMCnet] Onan Points & Condenser [message #182587] |
Fri, 31 August 2012 11:38  |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
|
|
G'day,
I dug up the following part numbers from various sources:
I went to M&D Mower http://www.m-and-d.com and here's what I found:
Early model - Access by removing plate facing body of GMC
Points: 160-1154 - Available from M&D Mower @ $27.58: http://www.m-and-d.com/ONA-160-1154.html
Condenser: 312-0069 - Available from M&D Mower @ $21.00: http://www.m-and-d.com/ONA-312-0069.html
Late Model - Access by removing Allen screw in top of cover
Points: 160-1183 - No results from M&D Mower - Discontinued by Onan in July of 2010
Condenser: 312-0246 - Available from M&D Mower @ $19.73: http://www.m-and-d.com/ONA-312-0246.html
Both Models:
Coil condenser: 312-0017 - Available from M&D Mower @ $66.69: http://www.m-and-d.com/ONA-312-0017.html
I then went to Jacks Small Engines and they had ONE (1ea) of all the parts so I ordered them.
http://www.jackssmallengines.com/index.html
Their prices were better too!
Part Number Description Qty Price Comments
3120017 CONDENSER 1 $37.02
3120246 CAPACITOR 1 $10.94
3120069 CONDENSER 1 $11.66
1601154 POINT SET IGN 1 $15.30
1601183 BREAKER ASSY IGN 1 $22.48 I got their last set
Comments:
1) If you have a late model Onan keep the points clean - they're GONE!
2) Can one of our electrical guru's check the Coil Condenser and see if they can find a substitute, $66.69 is RIDICULOUS and $37.02
ain't much better!
3) Other than M&D, Jacks, and Cummins does anybody have a source for Onan parts?
Regards,
Rob M.
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Onan Points & Condenser [message #182632 is a reply to message #182587] |
Fri, 31 August 2012 17:40  |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Rob,
On this "Coil Condenser" you are referring to is it attached to the + side of the coil?
If so then it is simply there for ignition noise reduction in your radio. You can run without it or use just about any brand one to replace it.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Onan Points & Condenser [message #182646 is a reply to message #182632] |
Fri, 31 August 2012 18:55 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
don't think so
this is the way I learned it
from the net
----------------------------
The capacitor on the old ignition system has the job to create an
oscillation circuit, producing a more powerful electric discharge to the
cylinder to ignite fuel.
The ignition coil and the capacitor form what is called LC circuit that
causes such oscillation and repetitive spikes (ringing) for some time.
Without the capacitor, the electric high voltage to the cylinder will be
weak, sometimes not enough to cause the fuel ignition.
and from here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignition_system
This capacitor <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor> and the coil’s
primary windings form an oscillating LC
circuit<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LC_circuit>.
This LC circuit produces a damped, oscillating current which bounces energy
between the capacitor’s electric field and the ignition coil’s magnetic
field. The oscillating current in the coil’s primary, which produces an
oscillating magnetic field in the coil, extends the high voltage pulse at
the output of the secondary windings. This high voltage thus continues
beyond the time of the initial field collapse pulse. The oscillation
continues until the circuit’s energy is consumed
gene
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 3:40 PM, Ken Burton <n9cv@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> Rob,
>
> On this "Coil Condenser" you are referring to is it attached to the + side
> of the coil?
>
> If so then it is simply there for ignition noise reduction in your radio.
> You can run without it or use just about any brand one to replace it.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Onan Points & Condenser [message #182651 is a reply to message #182632] |
Fri, 31 August 2012 19:43 |
|
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Ken,
Yes, it is.
Yes, that's what I thought it was for.
When I get the parts I'll let you know and we can check them and find less expensive "generic" replacements..
BTW I got an OFF NET message that pointed me to an eBay auction for the points AND condenser, it was $24 for both.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Burton
Rob,
On this "Coil Condenser" you are referring to is it attached to the + side of the coil?
If so then it is simply there for ignition noise reduction in your radio. You can run without it or use just about any brand one
to replace it.
--
Ken
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Onan Points & Condenser [message #182654 is a reply to message #182646] |
Fri, 31 August 2012 19:57 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Wrong capacitor Gene
On some older vehicles where the radio was an option you will find the coil capacitor listed as added when the radio option is installed. It is an RFI device.
If you will look at a 1973 GMC wiring diagram you will see that capacitor labeled as "Capacitor Radio RPO"
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Onan Points & Condenser [message #182659 is a reply to message #182651] |
Fri, 31 August 2012 20:39 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I know you are trying to be complete with your parts listing but that item is something that no one ever replaces. Maybe a ham radio operator or 2 way radio tech would look for one if he was chasing ignition noise problem but other than that no one would replace one. I know in 50 years of working on cars I have never bought one. There are huge capacitors by MSD and others sold to people these days for $40 each.
A search on ebay shows 22 of these priced for $4.95 to $69.50.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Onan Points & Condenser [message #182706 is a reply to message #182700] |
Sat, 01 September 2012 02:50 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
|
Senior Member |
|
|
I'm going to try this one more way. That cap helps filter out ignition noise, by reducing it on the +12 LEAD.
On our coach it is completely unnecessary because the +12 to the radio is supplied by the engine side electrical system while the +12 to the Onan ignition coil is supplied to the house system. These are two separate systems.
No one will ever need replace it.
Now on some of those capacitors, the value is stamped in the outer shell. Sometimes on the round end opposite the wire. I have a guess as to what it is but I'll not post it because I'm not sure. The caps were only use on points style ignitions.
You will notice it was used on GMC engines with points ignitions and not on ones with HEI.
I'll stumble across the value somewhere and when I see it I'll let you know. It is a generic part.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Onan Points & Condenser [message #182708 is a reply to message #182700] |
Sat, 01 September 2012 04:41 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
>
> Even the one Bovee found on eBay was pricey. Is there some way to find out
> what the "capacity" of the "capacitor" is so we could
> find something cheaper?
>
yep , we are talking about the one across the points, which is part of the
points assembly, and I would guess we will have to buy them as a set.
seller lists the parts numbers as:
REPLACES ONAN 160-1183 POINTS AND 312-0246 CONDENSER
now JimK said he is making up a points kit, , but does not list it on his
page that I can find. I guess that $24 is cheap, ( as a backup system) for
the PERTRONICS.
Waiting for the new mounting kit ;>)
not a real big deal here in Orgn, should reach a summer high of 70 deg.,
and sunny, today.
gene
gene
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gene Fisher
>
> Wrong capacitor Gene
>
> yes I see now
> I was looking at Sully's cap
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/77-royale/p45437-onan-point-wire.html
>
> which is looking bad
> worked on Bopvee's onan for 2 days, and the only thing that worked was
> changing the points ( which looked good) and the condenser (which is almost
> impossible to test.
>
> wondering if this cap is causing more problems than we know
>
> gene
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Onan Points & Condenser [message #182709 is a reply to message #182708] |
Sat, 01 September 2012 04:51 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
|
Senior Member |
|
|
some pictures
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6168-onan-points.html
gene
On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 2:41 AM, gene Fisher <mr.erfisher@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Even the one Bovee found on eBay was pricey. Is there some way to find
>> out what the "capacity" of the "capacitor" is so we could
>> find something cheaper?
>>
>
> yep , we are talking about the one across the points, which is part of the
> points assembly, and I would guess we will have to buy them as a set.
>
> seller lists the parts numbers as:
> REPLACES ONAN 160-1183 POINTS AND 312-0246 CONDENSER
>
> now JimK said he is making up a points kit, , but does not list it on his
> page that I can find. I guess that $24 is cheap, ( as a backup system) for
> the PERTRONICS.
>
> Waiting for the new mounting kit ;>)
>
> not a real big deal here in Orgn, should reach a summer high of 70 deg.,
> and sunny, today.
>
> gene
>
> gene
>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rob M.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gene Fisher
>>
>> Wrong capacitor Gene
>>
>> yes I see now
>> I was looking at Sully's cap
>>
>> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/77-royale/p45437-onan-point-wire.html
>>
>> which is looking bad
>> worked on Bopvee's onan for 2 days, and the only thing that worked was
>> changing the points ( which looked good) and the condenser (which is
>> almost
>> impossible to test.
>>
>> wondering if this cap is causing more problems than we know
>>
>> gene
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> -------
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/
> Alternator Protection Cable
> http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Onan Points & Condenser [message #182718 is a reply to message #182709] |
Sat, 01 September 2012 07:10 |
midlf
Messages: 2212
Registered: July 2007
Location: SE Wisc. (Palmyra)
Karma: 1
|
Senior Member |
|
|
The Onan condenser (condenser is the obsolete name for a capacitor) is not critical except for the mechanical mounting method. Any automotive 12V condenser will work electrically. The only problem is the mounting method. If you can find one to fit, somehow, it will work. It needs to have two connections, one is the wire lead to the points, the other is the mounting screw. The condenser does not even have to be very close to the points, a few inches away will work. Cummins should be charged with Grand Theft Auto for what they charge for parts.
BTW the MFD value (the measure of capacitance) can be determined by measuring a good condenser with an LCR meter. Then take a guess at a voltage value, 400V should work, and you can get a capacitor from an electronics parts house that will work.
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [GMCnet] Onan Points & Condenser [message #182807 is a reply to message #182802] |
Sat, 01 September 2012 18:01 |
GMC Cruse
Messages: 606
Registered: June 2009
Location: SE Michigan
Karma: 3
|
Senior Member |
|
|
| Robert Mueller wrote on Sat, 01 September 2012 18:36 |
G'day,
Mike, nice find!
I entered 312-0246 for the late model setup and they have those also:
http://www.anyrvparts.com/ProductDetail.asp?PID=12309&ProductDescription=312-0246&BID=
As you can see there is writing on it as well but you can't read it.
|
312-0246 is stamped 0.8mF and 300VDC from another site.
Mike K.
'75 PB
Southeast Michigan
[Updated on: Sat, 01 September 2012 18:03] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Wed Oct 02 23:36:11 CDT 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.02083 seconds
|
GMCforum
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
