Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » [GMCnet] Ethanol vs. Age
| [GMCnet] Ethanol vs. Age [message #182482] |
Thu, 30 August 2012 20:14  |
Dolph Santorine
Messages: 1236
Registered: April 2011
Location: Wheeling, WV
Karma: -41
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Senior Member |
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All:
I don't want to re-kindle the Ethanol debate, but I do need some help with a problem.
I'm going to run my GMC on an electric fuel pump. No mechanical backup.
So, I misplaced the mechanical pump block off. The young man who helped me with a lot of the work wanted to see the thing run, so we left the mechanical pump in place.
I replaced all of the fuel line, except the piece that went up to the mechanical pump.
Started. Run. Did the test drive. Then fuel delivery problems.
Pulled the filter tonight. Full of sticky black pieces of a rubber like material. The hose that I cut still looked OK.
FWIW, the tank lines are old (planned change for next year). New line from the selector valve to a filter, to the Holley Red electric pump, to new line to the metal that went under the engine, to the rubber to the mechanical pump, then metal up to the carb.
Replacement will have a few inches of rubber to a metal line to the carb, with the filters being the inlet in the carb, and after the selector valve. The back filter is clear, and looks just fine.
Insight? Do you think the material was the diaphragm from the mechanical fuel pump (which is most likely original, 87000 miles ago. Documentation bears this out).
Thanks for your help.
Dolph
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ethanol vs. Age [message #182547 is a reply to message #182482] |
Fri, 31 August 2012 07:14  |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547
Registered: March 2007
Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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| Dolph Santorine wrote on Thu, 30 August 2012 21:14 |
All:
I don't want to re-kindle the Ethanol debate, but I do need some help with a problem.
I'm going to run my GMC on an electric fuel pump. No mechanical backup.
So, I misplaced the mechanical pump block off. The young man who helped me with a lot of the work wanted to see the thing run, so we left the mechanical pump in place.
I replaced all of the fuel line, except the piece that went up to the mechanical pump.
Started. Run. Did the test drive. Then fuel delivery problems.
Pulled the filter tonight. Full of sticky black pieces of a rubber like material. The hose that I cut still looked OK.
FWIW, the tank lines are old (planned change for next year). New line from the selector valve to a filter, to the Holley Red electric pump, to new line to the metal that went under the engine, to the rubber to the mechanical pump, then metal up to the carb.
Replacement will have a few inches of rubber to a metal line to the carb, with the filters being the inlet in the carb, and after the selector valve. The back filter is clear, and looks just fine.
Insight? Do you think the material was the diaphragm from the mechanical fuel pump (which is most likely original, 87000 miles ago. Documentation bears this out).
Thanks for your help.
Dolph
|
Dolph,
The rubber goo could have come from anywhere.
The pump diaphragm is not the most likely. Even at 40+/-yo, the materials used for pump diaphragms was pretty good. But any of the rest of the rubber hose in the system could easily have been shedding material for years.
Are you saying that you were running with the electric and mechanical pumps both?
If that is the case, there is a good chance that you flushed age old debris that had been sequestered in the fuel pump for ages down stream to the filter. Good thing you still had that filter - Aeh?
Me thinks you might do well put high priority on changing out the old fuel lines. That material had to come from somewhere.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ethanol vs. Age [message #182552 is a reply to message #182547] |
Fri, 31 August 2012 07:56 |
Jim Bounds
Messages: 842
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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If the black gunk is from the mechanical pump diaphram, you have more problems than the blank gunk in the filter. That means the pump you may have pumped fuel into the crankcase. if it's out of the line, that will stop but you might wanna dump your oil to be sure.
This ethanol is really doing a number on the old accepted nitril rubber most of the fuel hoses are made with. Any of it left in the fuel delivery system could be considered suspect. man if that goop reaches the carb you will really have a problem-- probably will need the carb dumped and gone through.
I would go ahead and just go through the fuel delivery system now, why wait and possibly cause other issues.
Jim Bounds
---------
________________________________
From: Matt Colie <matt7323tze@gmail.com>
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 8:14 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Ethanol vs. Age
Dolph Santorine wrote on Thu, 30 August 2012 21:14
> All:
>
> I don't want to re-kindle the Ethanol debate, but I do need some help with a problem.
>
> I'm going to run my GMC on an electric fuel pump. No mechanical backup.
>
> So, I misplaced the mechanical pump block off. The young man who helped me with a lot of the work wanted to see the thing run, so we left the mechanical pump in place.
>
> I replaced all of the fuel line, except the piece that went up to the mechanical pump.
>
> Started. Run. Did the test drive. Then fuel delivery problems.
>
> Pulled the filter tonight. Full of sticky black pieces of a rubber like material. The hose that I cut still looked OK.
>
> FWIW, the tank lines are old (planned change for next year). New line from the selector valve to a filter, to the Holley Red electric pump, to new line to the metal that went under the engine, to the rubber to the mechanical pump, then metal up to the carb.
>
> Replacement will have a few inches of rubber to a metal line to the carb, with the filters being the inlet in the carb, and after the selector valve. The back filter is clear, and looks just fine.
>
> Insight? Do you think the material was the diaphragm from the mechanical fuel pump (which is most likely original, 87000 miles ago. Documentation bears this out).
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Dolph
Dolph,
The rubber goo could have come from anywhere.
The pump diaphragm is not the most likely. Even at 40+/-yo, the materials used for pump diaphragms was pretty good. But any of the rest of the rubber hose in the system could easily have been shedding material for years.
Are you saying that you were running with the electric and mechanical pumps both?
If that is the case, there is a good chance that you flushed age old debris that had been sequestered in the fuel pump for ages down stream to the filter. Good thing you still had that filter - Aeh?
Me thinks you might do well put high priority on changing out the old fuel lines. That material had to come from somewhere.
Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie
'73 Glacier 23 Chaumière (say show-me-air) Just about as stock as you will find
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ethanol vs. Age [message #182686 is a reply to message #182552] |
Fri, 31 August 2012 21:49 |
Dolph Santorine
Messages: 1236
Registered: April 2011
Location: Wheeling, WV
Karma: -41
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Senior Member |
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I sliced the pump open this evening, and the diaphragm is fine. No evidence of ethanol.
The check valves seem to be OK, too, so it was probably the last of the old hose. It's gone now.
I'm going to run with an extra filter in the line for a bit to make certain I don't foul that little filter in the quadrajet.
Thanks for the input.
Dolph Santorine
DE N8JPC
Wheeling, West Virginia
dolph@dolphsantorine.com
1977 GMC 26' Palm Beach
TZE167V100820
1976 GMC 26' Donor Coach
TZE166V101610
On Aug 31, 2012, at 8:56 AM, Jim Bounds wrote:
> If the black gunk is from the mechanical pump diaphram, you have more problems than the blank gunk in the filter. That means the pump you may have pumped fuel into the crankcase. if it's out of the line, that will stop but you might wanna dump your oil to be sure.
>
> This ethanol is really doing a number on the old accepted nitril rubber most of the fuel hoses are made with. Any of it left in the fuel delivery system could be considered suspect. man if that goop reaches the carb you will really have a problem-- probably will need the carb dumped and gone through.
>
> I would go ahead and just go through the fuel delivery system now, why wait and possibly cause other issues.
>
> Jim Bounds
> ---------
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Matt Colie <matt7323tze@gmail.com>
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 8:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Ethanol vs. Age
>
>
>
> Dolph Santorine wrote on Thu, 30 August 2012 21:14
>> All:
>>
>> I don't want to re-kindle the Ethanol debate, but I do need some help with a problem.
>>
>> I'm going to run my GMC on an electric fuel pump. No mechanical backup.
>>
>> So, I misplaced the mechanical pump block off. The young man who helped me with a lot of the work wanted to see the thing run, so we left the mechanical pump in place.
>>
>> I replaced all of the fuel line, except the piece that went up to the mechanical pump.
>>
>> Started. Run. Did the test drive. Then fuel delivery problems.
>>
>> Pulled the filter tonight. Full of sticky black pieces of a rubber like material. The hose that I cut still looked OK.
>>
>> FWIW, the tank lines are old (planned change for next year). New line from the selector valve to a filter, to the Holley Red electric pump, to new line to the metal that went under the engine, to the rubber to the mechanical pump, then metal up to the carb.
>>
>> Replacement will have a few inches of rubber to a metal line to the carb, with the filters being the inlet in the carb, and after the selector valve. The back filter is clear, and looks just fine.
>>
>> Insight? Do you think the material was the diaphragm from the mechanical fuel pump (which is most likely original, 87000 miles ago. Documentation bears this out).
>>
>> Thanks for your help.
>>
>> Dolph
>
> Dolph,
>
> The rubber goo could have come from anywhere.
>
> The pump diaphragm is not the most likely. Even at 40+/-yo, the materials used for pump diaphragms was pretty good. But any of the rest of the rubber hose in the system could easily have been shedding material for years.
>
> Are you saying that you were running with the electric and mechanical pumps both?
> If that is the case, there is a good chance that you flushed age old debris that had been sequestered in the fuel pump for ages down stream to the filter. Good thing you still had that filter - Aeh?
>
>
> Me thinks you might do well put high priority on changing out the old fuel lines. That material had to come from somewhere.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie
> '73 Glacier 23 Chaumière (say show-me-air) Just about as stock as you will find
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ethanol vs. Age [message #182690 is a reply to message #182686] |
Fri, 31 August 2012 22:06 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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Dolph,
Install a metal housing filter in the rubber line that goes from the steel tube that is attached to the top of the front crossmember
to the inlet of the fuel pump. Ken Frey installed one there five years ago and every year before we head out on out tour I remove it
and blow through it, so far I've never had to replace it.
Regards,
Rob M.
-----Original Message-----
From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Dolph Santorine
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 8:49 PM
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Ethanol vs. Age
I sliced the pump open this evening, and the diaphragm is fine. No evidence of ethanol.
The check valves seem to be OK, too, so it was probably the last of the old hose. It's gone now.
I'm going to run with an extra filter in the line for a bit to make certain I don't foul that little filter in the quadrajet.
Thanks for the input.
Dolph Santorine
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ethanol vs. Age [message #182702 is a reply to message #182690] |
Fri, 31 August 2012 22:53 |
Dolph Santorine
Messages: 1236
Registered: April 2011
Location: Wheeling, WV
Karma: -41
|
Senior Member |
|
|
That sounds like a plan.
Dolph Santorine
Dolph@DolphSantorine.com
Excuse me for not being my usual wordy and sporadically verbose self. This message is sent from my iPhone.
No trees were killed in the sending of this message and few long dead dinosaurs were involved. A large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
On Aug 31, 2012, at 11:06 PM, "Rob Mueller" <robmueller@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> Dolph,
>
> Install a metal housing filter in the rubber line that goes from the steel tube that is attached to the top of the front crossmember
> to the inlet of the fuel pump. Ken Frey installed one there five years ago and every year before we head out on out tour I remove it
> and blow through it, so far I've never had to replace it.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org [mailto:gmclist-bounces@temp.gmcnet.org] On Behalf Of Dolph Santorine
> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 8:49 PM
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Ethanol vs. Age
>
> I sliced the pump open this evening, and the diaphragm is fine. No evidence of ethanol.
>
> The check valves seem to be OK, too, so it was probably the last of the old hose. It's gone now.
>
> I'm going to run with an extra filter in the line for a bit to make certain I don't foul that little filter in the quadrajet.
>
> Thanks for the input.
>
>
> Dolph Santorine
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
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